Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

iajanus posted:

Having worked in IT support in various positions for well over a decade the disdain and apathy starts early, although if you want to progress a good acting ability is a must to pretend you don't hate everyone you talk to on a daily basis.

I got a cat for my shop. This vastly improved my customer service delivery.

Serrath posted:

Quick question, I'm seeing a lot of calls and encouragement to boycott the census for a number of reasons. But skipping the census carries a fine, yes? Do they actually fine people or is it more of a threat without any real legal mechanism too?

I guess I have the same question about voting; if I hadn't voted in the last election, how would they know enough to both find out that I didn't and track down my address in order to fine me (assume I failed to register to vote).

I forgot to vote in the qld state election last year and the the local Gold Coast municipal elections and I didn't get a fine, should I be worried that they're tracking me down now waiting to serve me with a number of outstanding charges?

How to skip the census. Be in transit. The census is collected by household so if you weren't part of a household on the night you aren't counted.

Yes they do fine people and the fines are by the day until you comply. There are very serious fines for false or misleading data (arguably the strategy above is covered by the later). None the less the current arrangements are 100% bullshit and they can go and gently caress themselves.

ScreamingLlama posted:

Welcome to the August thread for AusPol, a Green Party echo chamber ringing with the howls of perpetually outraged SJWs, the jeers of stoned latte-sipping hipsters and the furious masturbation of self-styled political pundits.

Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

You do know image leeching is against the rules?

quote:

Image size and linking. Keep all images smaller than 800 pixels horizontal and 600 pixels vertical. Make sure all images are hosted on your own webspace. We do not approve of bandwidth leeching and forcing other people to pay for your images.

quote:

Composed of most of the Auspol regulars and a bunch of tree-hugging¹, unvaccinated², stoner hippy twats³, The Greens oppose the production of nuclear medicine⁴, the fluoridation of drinking water⁵, particle research⁶, genetic engineering⁷ and reprocessing of nuclear waste even though these things would greatly benefit Australia⁸. All Greens bow before the altar of Richard DiNatale.⁹

[1] You can whisper to them too!
[2] Not part of Greens policy and I will hound any antivaccer off these forums and have before.
[3] Not sure weed smoking is a big issue but I don't so that obviously was a shot at someone else. When did kicking hippies rather than hipsters become cool? That hurts :mad:

Oh nice gendered slur. You really have grown into your role as a reviled pariah.
[4]Nope.
[5]Nope.
[6]Nope.
[7]Nope.
[8]Citation required.
[9]I can't stand the guy but he does actually think killing and torturing refugees is bad so of all the available choices....

I sure hope the information on the other parties isn't as misleading and incorrect :ohdear:

looks like this OP needs work 0/10.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 01:41

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 09:28

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Do we know what the makeup of the senate crossbench is? That would be actual useful information.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 01:44

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Solemn Sloth posted:

I'm disappointed in you cartoon, you didn't even pick out where he implied that all school kids should be medicated

I'm not say I disagreed with everything in the OP :corsair:

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 02:11

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

BBJoey posted:

Of all the things to go against the focus groups on they choose greyhound racing

The ALP NSW right have to have somewhere locally to launder their money.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 03:01

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

EvilElmo posted:

I said it last time, greyhound owners aren't horse owners. They're not millionaires, they're generally living in the outer semi-rural areas of Sydney/Melbourne with not a lot of cash to rub together. So cutting their only form of income with no support is a typical Liberal idea. The attitude of posters in here are why the Greens are called Tree Tories. If it's not an industry they support, gently caress em, let them rot. Who cares about the impact it will have on families who rely in winnings from greyhound racing to survive.

Kill the industry, but do it right.

What an utterly bullshit argument.

The greyhound racing 'industry' extracts ~~millions~~ billions of dollars from the poor and underpriviledged through gambling.

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/greyhound-racing-money-trail.php

quote:

A Productivity Commission review estimated the total social cost of problem gambling to be at least $4.7 billion a year. And a 2014 Price Waterhouse Coopers report concluded that the NSW racing industry is a 'consumptive sector', and doesn't 'generate any significant productivity benefits to the rest of the economy'.

The tiny number of people who are going to 'lose an income' from this in no way justifies any of the exploitative (to both animals and people) poo poo going down in the 'industry'.

And what's with the Green bashing? It was an LNP government, the loving Productivity Commission and any number of animal welfare groups AND the general public who want this poo poo stopped. Those thousand people directly employed by the NSW 'industry' need to find less awful jobs or go on welfare.

And let it be an object lesson in where self regulation can lead. Now isn't that a typical Liberal idea?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 03:30

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

EvilElmo posted:

Can we get a new thread made? One where you can link every issue to refugees instead of crapping this one up with the same old poo poo?

WAIT SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER POLICY, QUICK!

Um please point out any mention or even insinuation of Australia's refugee policy in my rebuttal of your entire point from a number of directions.

Evil Elmo : Oh gently caress!!! Someone's engaged in the argument and has made a bunch of really good well source points OH gently caress!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! Panic stations!!!!

DEFLECT!!! DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!DEFLECT!!!

Phew I think it worked

/Evil Elmo

Hey dude why don't you make that thread you want? Here's a suggested title: AusPol thread for whiny pissants who can't argue in good faith. Show ALP membership card before posting.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 04:07

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

EvilElmo posted:

You didn't others did. I didn't need to respond to your "rebuttal" because you didn't read past the first sentence. Read the last one, I quoted it again when I responded to your post and added it for you again here.

edit: At no point have I argued for keeping the Greyhound industry open. You've created an argument that doesn't exist. You got hard, did a bunch of googlefu and posted up a heap of information for nothing. I want the industry closed, but posters here and the Liberals in NSW are of the view that we should just shut it down, don't support the people who currently rely on it. It's a completely legal profession, like all industry closures it needs to be managed well. Something posters in here and the Liberals in NSW don't think is important because they don't like the people who are in the industry.

Rubbish. I addressed specific points you made in the para above your oft self quoted acceptance that this poo poo needs to stop. One of the problems with self regulation occurs when the participants make no provision for the circumstances that now exist in NSW. Another version of victim blaming and 'They brought in on themselves'? Well possibly. An industry ending package from government is entirely appropriate. They can spend some of the 14 million currently subsiding greyhound racing in NSW on it (amounts to ~$14000 per annum for each direct employee). It will of course fail to do any good because there aren't the same job opportunities in Australia that there were previously but if we are going to broaden the argument to everything that is wrong in the world...

Oh and boo hoo bad me for actually seeking some facts about this. That clearly won't do. Bad me! I'll never do it again!* Informed argument is for chumps!

*Offer void.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 04:42

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

We do know what the new RBA rate is :monocle:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-02/reserve-bank-cuts-interest-rates/7682170

quote:

Interest rates slashed to fresh record low of 1.5pc by Reserve Bank, CBA passes on half By business reporter Michael Janda Updated 13 minutes ago

The Reserve Bank has cut the official interest rate to a fresh low of just 1.5 per cent, in a desperate effort to stoke price growth. The RBA last cut its overnight cash rate target in May, taking it to 1.75 per cent, following weak consumer price data in the March quarter. ABS June quarter inflation data, out last Wednesday, showed consumer prices rose just 1 per cent over the past year, with the Reserve Bank's preferred measure also well below its 2-3 per cent target. After that release, markets priced the chances of a rate cut as roughly 50-50, but bets had since gone up to a 75 per cent chance of a rate reduction. The odds were similar when looking at economist forecasts, with 20 of 25 surveyed by Bloomberg expecting a rate cut today. Most experts expect today's rate cut to be the last, but about a third of the analysts surveyed by financial comparison website Finder are expecting more cuts, with six out of 41 expecting a trough of 1 per cent or less.

RBA's rate dilemma

The Reserve Bank sets one cash rate for the nation, but it is simply not appropriate for some states, explains Stephen Long. Finder's Graham Cooke said it is important for consumers to re-evaluate their current home loan to make sure their bank is passing on the reduction in full. "If you had a $300,000 mortgage with an average standard variable rate of 4.93 per cent and manage to get the full discount of 0.25 percentage points off your interest rate, this could pocket you almost $50 per month, or a whopping $16,325 over the life of your loan," he observed. Commonwealth Bank passes on half the cut. However, it appears that the major banks will not pass on all of the Reserve Bank's rate cut, with the Commonwealth Bank lowering its standard variable mortgage rate by only 13 basis points. That is roughly half of the Reserve Bank's 25-basis-point official rate cut. CBA's customers will also have to wait more than two weeks to get the benefit of the rate reduction, with it taking effect on Friday, August 19. In some rare good news for savers, however, CBA is passing on a rate increase of at least 50 basis points to new one, two and three-year term deposits.

Wonder what the muppets in the Government are doing about _jobs and Growth

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 06:03

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

When an entire nation's judiciary and executive won't stop acting like shitheels we need other jurisdicitions to actually give a poo poo about human rights. Oh and looks like it isn't just youth detention in the NT that's piss poor (I was shocked).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-03/unhrc-asked-to-probe-nt-man-restraint/7683346

quote:

Northern Territory prison's treatment of intellectually disabled Aboriginal man referred to UN By the National Reporting Team's Natasha Robinson and Alison Branley Updated about 3 hours ago

The United Nations Human Rights Council is being asked to investigate the case of an intellectually disabled Aboriginal man who has been repeatedly strapped to a restraint chair in an Alice Springs prison.

Key points:

Intellectually disabled Aboriginal man forcibly restrained, sedated on 17 occasions since 2012, guardian claims
Malcolm Morton held in arbitrary detention in the NT, UN Human Rights Council told
Mr Morton's guardian says use of restraint chair "is unnecessary"
Malcolm Morton, 25, is being held in the maximum security wing of the Alice Springs Correctional Centre and has been forcibly restrained in a chair and sedated on about 17 occasions since 2012, according to his guardian.

Australian Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs said it has received at least 10 complaints from the guardians of other intellectually disabled prisoners, most of them Aboriginal, who have also been forcibly restrained in prisons. "I'm aware over the last two or three years of something like 10 or so of these kinds of complaints," Professor Triggs said. Professor Triggs said that when the issue has been raised with the Federal Government, "they have quite simply washed their hands of the whole affair and said it's nothing to do with the Commonwealth". The revelations follow international condemnation of the use of a restraint chair to contain Dylan Voller, a young Aboriginal man who was threatening self-harm in an NT prison.

UN commissioner shocked at 'inhuman and cruel treatment'

Following the broadcast of the images of Mr Voller restrained in the chair wearing a spit hood, the UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, issued a statement saying he was shocked at the inhumane and cruel treatment of children in detention in the NT. Now, the UN Human Rights Council has been told that Mr Morton is being held in arbitrary detention in the NT, that he is being subject to cruel and degrading treatment, and that the Commonwealth Government has failed to intervene to provide secure care. Professor Patrick Keyzer drafted the United Nations complaint that was recently lodged. "The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights has been extremely concerned about the revelations from the Don Dale Youth Detention Centre, and we anticipate the UN will also be very concerned about the revelation that restraint chairs are used in other parts of the corrections system in the NT, particularly in relation to vulnerable prisoners," Professor Keyzer said. "I think Malcolm's treatment could certainly be described as inhuman and degrading. Certainly there will be evidence put and allegations made that characterises Malcolm's treatment in those terms."
While Mr Morton has been restrained numerous times, there is no suggestion he has been hooded.

Mr Morton was born with severe intellectual impairments and also has been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder and epilepsy. In 2007 in the remote central Australian community of Santa Teresa, Mr Morton fatally stabbed his uncle Simon Wallace. Mr Wallace was a mechanic in Santa Teresa and was caring for Mr Morton with virtually no support from NT disability services. Doctors in the community had repeatedly warned that without proper treatment Mr Morton would be a danger to himself and others. A Northern Territory judge found in 2009 that Mr Morton was unfit to plead to a charge of murder. He has been held in maximum security conditions in prison ever since, however currently is granted day release to a secure health unit that adjoins the Alice Springs Correctional Centre.

Guards 'don't have the necessary set of skills'

Mr Morton's legal guardian Patrick McGee, who is also the coordinator of the Aboriginal Disability Justice Campaign, has repeatedly raised complaints with the NT and Federal governments about Mr Morton's restraint and sedation. Mr McGee wants Mr Morton to be provided with appropriate disability care and to be released from prison. "Malcolm is considered a serious risk of harm to himself and others, that is, he uses violence as a form of communication," Mr McGee said.
"He's never been taught to communicate using verbal language, and his disability is such that he has very poor receptive and expressive language. "He often spends large amounts of time in his cell. Ten out of every 12 hours could be spent in his cell. He has to be escorted when he's out of his cell by prison officers. "And because he has an intellectual disability and this is a maximum security prison many of the prison officers don't have the necessary set of skills to actually manage him. As his guardian what we would be saying is a maximum security prison is the wrong place for people with intellectual disabilities and he should be on the care and treatment of the Department of Health, their office of disability."

Restraint chairs 'barbaric', 'a last resort'

Mr McGee said the use of the restraint chair on Mr Morton was as "a barbaric use of restraint that is unnecessary. "The position of the prison is that they can't allow him to continue to hurt himself," Mr McGee said. "In the absence of any other alternatives what they do is they enter the cell and manhandle him into a restraint chair. They strap him into a restraint chair and they usually inject him with some kind of tranquiliser until he's compliant and calm. They've done this about 17 times between 2012 and 2015. Our position has always been that if they have to resort to this kind of intervention then he is in absolutely the wrong place because there are alternatives to this type of intervention."

The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists describes the use of restraint as an "extreme" measure that should only be used as a last resort.

"We would not support the use of restraint chairs or indeed some of the other very restrictive and aggressive measures that we saw highlighted [in the Four Corners program] last week," said the College's president Malcolm Hopwood. The EVIL Greens' Indigenous affairs spokesperson Rachel Siewert, who was re-elected to the Federal Senate this week, said she would move to restart a parliamentary inquiry into the indefinite detention of people with cognitive impairment. Senator Siewert said the use of restraint on people such as Mr Morton should be urgently investigated. "I look forward to pursuing this inquiry and shedding some light on this issue," Senator Siewert said. "The community is now seeing the impact of race to the bottom to be 'tough on crime'. Prisons are not the place for people with cognitive impairment who are found unfit to plead."

When questioned about the treatment of Mr Morton, a spokesperson for Attorney-General George Brandis said it was a matter for the Northern Territory Government. The NT Government has not yet responded to requests for comment.

What do you do with broken people? Why you break them some more because that always works.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-03/png-court-orders-manus-resettlement-plan-by-thursday/7684258

quote:

Manus Island: Papua New Guinea court orders Australia to present detainee resettlement plan Updated 44 minutes ago

Papua New Guinea's Supreme Court has ordered Australia to present a resettlement plan for nearly 900 asylum seekers held in what it ruled in April is an illegal detention centre on Manus Island.

The Supreme Court said it would call on Australia to provide a representative on Thursday to provide details on a resettlement plan. "The court has embarked on this process on issue of resettlement. That is a matter for the two governments, what we want is for them to be released," said Ben Lomai, a lawyer for some of the detainees. A spokesman from the Department of Immigration and Border Protection said "The Australian Government is aware of the matter, but is not a party to the proceedings. Beyond this, it would not be appropriate to provide further comment as the matter remains before the court."

Mr Lomai told Radio New Zealand staff from Australia's High Commission in PNG had taken note of the hearing. The Supreme Court ruled more than three months ago that the Regional Processing Centre, used to house asylum seekers trying to reach Australia, was illegal. It was approved by the Papua New Guinea Government and is funded by the Australian Government. Prime Minister Peter O'Neill ordered the closure of the Manus centre after the Supreme Court ruling, raising the question where will the detainees be resettled. Many in Papua New Guinea do not want the asylum seekers in their community.

Human rights groups say tensions are rising in the detention centre, which has a history of violent protests and self harm by detainees.

Under Australia's hardline immigration policy, anyone intercepted trying to reach the country by boat is sent for processing to camps on Manus Island in Papua New Guinea or Nauru. The asylum seekers are not eligible to be resettled in Australia. Australian Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has said April's ruling would not alter Australia's border policies. Of the nearly 900 in the detention centre on Manus Island, about half have been found to be refugees. PNG's Immigration Department is due to respond to statements filed to the Supreme Court from the first five of more than 200 refugees and asylum seekers outlining their intentions not to accept resettlement. The centre operators and PNG's immigration authorities have moved refugees out of detention and into a transit centre near the main town of Lorengau.

More on this story:

Supreme Court adjourns refugee resettlement case
Uncertainty over asylum camp's future sparks Manus community tensions
PNG responsible for Manus Island asylum seekers, Dutton says
PM to shut Manus Island detention centre
Court finds detention of asylum seekers on Manus Island illegal

In a desperate attempt to expunge itself of Queenslanders or perhaps it is the sheer weight of Pauline Hanson's ignorance:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-02/ipswich-sinkhole-swallows-backyard-west-of-brisbane/7682332

quote:

Sinkhole swallows part of Ipswich backyard; abandoned mine may be to blame By Ellie Sibson Updated yesterday at 8:03pm

Historical mine maps and plans are being reviewed after a sinkhole filled with swirling water opened up in the backyard of a home in Ipswich, west of Brisbane. A neighbour alerted Lynn and Ray McKay about 9:00am after noticing the hole opening up on their Basin Pocket property. The hole has since increased to about eight metres in diameter. "Well, we don't get up 'til late because we are retired," he said. "Nine o'clock I got a knock on the door and it's the chap from next door. He was out watering his tomato plants and he said 'Do you want the good news or the bad news?' I come out and I've got a hole in the ground, it was only a little one, a metre, and it's just got bigger since."

Queensland Utilities were called, in the belief that a water pipe had burst, however the McKays were told there were no related pipes in the area. Mayor Paul Pisasale said it could be related the old mines in the area. "We've identified the fact that there's a shaft put in here many many years ago," he said. "There's no sewerage lines here. What it is is old mine workings. No-one knows what has happened but we will know in the next couple of days." He said the McKays, who have lived at the house in Coal Street for 25 years, were also victims of the 2011 floods. "I can assure Ray and Lynn they won't be alone," he said. "We're there to solve the problem. It's a community problem. It's not about local government or state government, this is about making sure that these two people know that they are not going to be left alone."

The property has been cordoned off and the McKays have been moved out temporarily.

A Department of Natural Resources and Mines spokeswoman said a review of historical mine maps and plans in the area was underway as part of the investigation into the possible cause. "The department is working with the Department of Environment and Heritage Protection to determine an appropriate method to pump and dispose of water from the sinkhole," the spokeswoman said.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2016 01:14

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

BBJoey posted:

amethyst is good, actually

This but unironically.

Was a time that getting caught in a lie was the end of you as a minister in the Federal government. How times change.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-04/scullion-admits-receiving-official-abuse-briefing-last-year/7688546

quote:

Nigel Scullion admits receiving official briefing on Don Dale abuse claims last year By Peta Donald and staff Updated 46 minutes ago

Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion has conceded he received an official brief about abuse claims in the Northern Territory youth justice system last year, despite earlier saying he had not been told about it.

Key points:

Senator Scullion admits asking for a briefing on NT juvenile justice abuse claims last year
Briefing gave background to a report by the NT children's commissioner
Senator Scullion says early media reports 'not as evocative' as seeing CCTV footage on Four Corners
The day after seeing Four Corners, Senator Scullion said he was shocked to the core.

On the weekend the Indigenous Affairs Minister apologised at the Garma festival in Arnhem Land for relying on the Northern Territory Government to keep him informed. Now he says he did ask his department for information in October last year, after seeing a story in the media about the report by the NT children's commissioner. "Well, it was for a Question Time brief. We'd seen it in the paper and I said 'Listen, what can you tell me about this, this might come up'," he said.
"The report basically just provided a bit of background about the commissioners report when it was published. "And it talked about � it said it looked at the use of tear gas during a three-hour siege by inmates. It talked about the report explaining approval to transfer five young people under the Youth Justice Act. It quoted some other media stories, � and it provided some media stories."

Early stories 'not as evocative' as CCTV footage

Media stories at the time reported much of the abuse shown by Four Corners. The stories reported children being tear-gassed in their cells, held for up to 17 days in solitary confinement, and hooded. An ABC story quoted a prison guard recorded threatening to pulverise a detainee. The Minister says it was not as evocative as seeing the abuse on CCTV, obtained by Four Corners. Senator Scullion said the advice from his department was that it was up to the NT Government to consider the findings of the report from the children's commissioner. He told Radio National he and his department could have done better. "I should have known. I should have had processes in place to ensure that I knew earlier," Senator Scullion said.

Growing calls for Senator Scullion to resign as minister

The former Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner, Tom Calma, has added his voice to those calling for the Minister to go. He cites Senator Scullion's initial lack of interest in what was going on at Don Dale. "Any minister who is not willing to engage with the community they represent and want to listen to them and work cooperatively with them, shouldn't be a minister," Professor Calma said. Senator Scullion said he would have liked to hear it from Mr Calma himself. "I've obviously lost the confidence of Tom, and I have to say it is a great disappointment to me," he said.

The Prime Minister is moving on with the issue of Indigenous recognition in the Constitution.

This morning he'll sit down to talk about it with Labor Leader Bill Shorten in their first meeting since the election. Malcolm Turnbull has warned Labor against pushing for a treaty as well as recognition, saying it could jeopardise the success of a referendum. Senator Scullion argues that rather than ruling out a treaty at this point, the Referendum Council should be allowed to consult Indigenous Australians and make a recommendation. "It's through that engagement process. If that's what Indigenous Australians, if that's what the process tells us what to do, well that's what it is � so that's what their view will be," he said.

What a joke. Speaking of being lied to. Remember how your data wasn't going to be linked to the census before (Yeah it was and you were just lied to about it). Makes trusting any claims by the ABS to being honest about data privacy now pretty hollow. IF they were doing a straight up mea culpa and returning the situation to what they publicly stated it was before maybe that could restore confidence. Unfortunately doing so while mashing the jack boots on the populous' heads with new draconian provisions attacking basic privacy...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-03/census-turnbull-defends-security-of-private-details/7685664

quote:

Census 2016: Malcolm Turnbull says privacy 'absolute' in ABS survey by political reporter Stephanie Anderson, staff Updated about 10 hours ago

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has moved to alleviate worries about the security of personal details gathered in the Census, after independent senator Nick Xenophon called for the national survey to be delayed over privacy concerns.

Key points:

Malcolm Turnbull says personal details gathered in Census are protected by law
PM says the ABS has "always protected people's privacy"
Nick Xenophon wants survey delayed amid access concerns
The compulsory survey, to be carried out on August 9, has been under fire from privacy advocates since the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) announced it would, for the first time, retain all the names and addresses it had collected "to enable a richer and dynamic statistical picture of Australia."

The Australian Privacy Foundation last month called on the ABS to stop using people's names for data analysis, but Mr Turnbull said on Wednesday the organisation "always protects people's privacy. The security of their personal details is absolute and that is protected by law and by practice," he said. "That is a given." ABS chief statistician David Kalisch said the organisation had "never had a privacy breach with Census information". (That he can barefacedly lie about that is astonishing in itself. Plenty of people have breached ABS privacy in the past. The ABS just doesn't have the mechanisms in place to catch them. To make such an absolute statement about this is absurd.)

Mr Kalisch said privacy concerns were raised every time a Census was conducted.

"The ABS has the best security features," he said. "We've never had a privacy breach with Census information and we do secure the information somewhat differently � These days we can keep names separate from address and separate from other Census content, in three separate computer systems and never brought together." When asked if he believed this year's Census had been handled poorly, Mr Kalisch responded that "we're well ahead of where we thought we would be". Process at risk of becoming 'shemozzle': Xenophon Concerns have also been raised over the changes in completing the form, with independent Senator Nick Xenophon calling for the Government to delay the Census amid confusion over the shift to an online form.

Worried about the Census?

Previously, Australians had the ability to "opt in" to have their names kept by the ABS. But now it's compulsory and many privacy advocates aren't happy about it, his year Australians have the option of either filling in the Census online using a 12-digit identification number, or calling a phone hotline to request a paper copy. However, some people who are seeking a paper form have been unable to get through on the phone line, as it struggles to keep up with the huge demand. Senator Xenophon and his party's Member for Mayo Rebekha Sharkie said the transition had been mishandled. He said the process was at risk of becoming a "shemozzle" and some people would not fill in the national survey because of their concerns. "If the Census is meant to be a snapshot of Australia on [August 9], I wonder if it'll end up being more like timelapse photography that's very blurred � because it seems that there is a lot of chaos and dysfunction in the way it is rolled out," he said. "This census may go down in history, for the unenviable statistic, that there will be a record number of Australians that won't be participating in it."

Wilkie seeks assurances on fines

Independent MP Andrew Wilkie also issued a statement, citing a "broad feeling of confusion in the community. I do not doubt the importance of the Census and I commend the vast majority of ABS staff for doing the very best they can," he said.
"But the Government needs to step up and listen to the concerns in the community and provide an assurance that no one will be fined if they haven't been able to complete the census." Labor frontbencher Andrew Leigh defended the process, but called on the Government to support it. In a statement, Dr Leigh said the Census should be a "first order issue for the Turnbull Government". The Census office has carried out extensive testing of its technology to see if it can cope with demand. It said the data required to fill out the Census was small, and should not add too much pressure on internet providers.

'Australians should be worried'

Nigel Waters, Australia's former deputy privacy commissioner, was hired 11 years ago by the ABS to investigate whether keeping identifying data was a good idea. "What they are now doing is breaking the compact or the deal that they have had with the Australian people for the last 100 years, which is that in exchange for giving them very sensitive information � including about your relationships, your health, your financial circumstances � their part of the deal was to make sure that that information would be de-identified as soon as possible," he told 7.30. Dr Mark Gregory from the RMIT School of Engineering said "Australians should be worried" about the ABS collecting their personal information. "They can't guarantee the security of the information. We know that Australia does not have mandatory data breach reporting laws and until those laws are put in place and security improved both within government and business then Australians have a great concern about the privacy of any information that they provide," Dr Gregory said.

But for social researchers like Liz Allen, a demographer from the Australian National University, more detailed Census data means better research and better targeted government policy. "The consequences of boycotting or sabotaging census data � putting aside the fact that you could be fined and face prosecution � is that the data won't truly reflect Australia," Ms Allen told the program. "Australians rely heavily on data to provide an evidence base. We don't want to build a road to nowhere, I think everyone would agree that evidence-based policy is the way to go."

But hey why worry about your data privacy when there are still hospitals in the middle east to bomb.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-04/six-aleppo-hospitals-struck-by-syrian-government-air-strikes/7688504

quote:

Battle for Aleppo: Six more hospitals struck by Syrian Government air strikes, relief agency says By Middle East correspondent Sophie McNeill, wires Posted about an hour ago

<img>A blood-stained stroller in an Aleppo hospital</img> PHOTO: Six Aleppo hospitals were hit by airstrikes in the past week. (Supplied: Syrian American Medical Society)
RELATED STORY: Save the Children-supported maternity hospital bombed in Syria
RELATED STORY: Doctors under fire in Aleppo as Syrian forces target hospitals

Six hospitals in the Syrian city of Aleppo were hit by Government air strikes last week in what a medical relief agency said amounted to war crimes. Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) said it was the worst week for attacks on medical facilities in the Aleppo region since the beginning of Syria's five-year conflict. "Since June, we've seen increasing reports of attacks on civilians in Aleppo and strikes on the region's remaining medical infrastructure. Each of these assaults constitutes a war crime," said Widney Brown, PHR's director of programs. "Destroying hospitals is tantamount to signing thousands of death warrants for people now stranded in eastern Aleppo," he said. "The bombings, the lack of humanitarian aid, and the failure of the United Nations to deliver any kind of assistance means the death toll may soon be catastrophic." The warning came as yet another hospital in Aleppo was hit overnight, with the M2 facility run by the Syrian American Medical Society bombed for the third time.

Meanwhile, Syrian regime forces bolstered by Russian air strikes have recaptured territory in the battleground city of Aleppo, rolling back the short-lived gains of a rebel offensive. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Syrian Government forces, with the aid of heavy Russian air strikes, seized two hilltops and two small villages in the south-west of Aleppo. Syria Government forces have advanced on Aleppo in recent weeks, imposing a siege on the opposition-held eastern part of the city since early last month. In a statement, the UN children's fund UNICEF said it is extremely concerned for the safety and wellbeing of children caught up in the violence in Aleppo, reporting that children make up a third of the 300,000 residents trapped in rebel-held besieged neighbourhoods. The observatory said 25 civilians were killed in Aleppo and Idlib on Wednesday by Syrian and Russian forces including 10 children, while 10 civilians including 4 children were killed overnight in rebel shelling of government-controlled districts in western Aleppo.

But that's OK because it's just 'Syrian Government' airstrikes. Oh really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_Syria and that includes US with the USA http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/03/31/raaf-hits-targets-syria-iraq

No wonder we are number three on a list of Western targets for Islamic extremists. Lucky there are so few Islamic extremist available to do anything about it however.

Oh and the CSIRO has been gutted enough. Maybe now they'll do science 'we' like. Instead of that rubbish all the ones who just got sacked were up to.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/turnbull-govt-backflips-on-climate-change/7688908.

Cartoon fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Aug 4, 2016

# ¿ Aug 4, 2016 01:47

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

MysticalMachineGun posted:

Did Lambie tend to vote with the Coalition? I can't remember, although it's probably less likely now that the Libs have had an election all to prevent such "chaos".

So if we were to break things down into generally left and generally right:

Totals:
Coalition 30
Labor 26
Greens 9
One Nation 4
NXT 3
LDP 1
FF 1
Lambie
Hinch.

Greens + NXT + ALP = 38
Libs + One Nation + LDP + FF + Hinch = 37
Lambie = ??

NXT, Greens and ALP are not going to agree on everything either.

The only math that will really hurt:

ALP + LNP = 56

Because minor parties are actually irrelevant.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2016 02:30

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

It was, unfortunately, only a matter of time.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-05/world-vision-boss-gaza-accused-by-israel-diverting-money-hamas/7692594

quote:

World Vision 'shocked' by Israel allegations Gaza manager diverted charity money to military group Hamas By Middle East correspondent Sophie McNeill Updated 38 minutes ago

Israel has charged a manager of World Vision's Gaza office with passing millions of dollars to the Palestinian hardline militant group Hamas. World Vision official Mohammed El Halabi appeared before a court today, facing charges of using millions of charity funds to pay Hamas fighters and buy weapons. The ABC understands the Australian Government has given the charity over $5 million in the past three years for projects in the Gaza Strip. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade said it was suspending the provision of funding to World Vision in the Palestinian Territories until an investigation is complete. The Israeli intelligence agency Shin Bet claimed Hamas recruited Mr Halabi more than a decade ago. The agency said since Mr Halabi took over World Vision operations in Gaza in 2010, roughly 60 per cent of World Vision's annual budget in the territory � $US7 million a year � was diverted to Hamas, including its military wing the al-Qassam brigades.

World Vision 'profoundly shocked' at allegations

In March this year, Mr Halabi took the Australian Ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma, on a tour of Australian funded aid projects in the Gaza Strip. They visited an agricultural scheme and a strawberry farm, all part of World Vision aid work in Gaza that the Australian Government has given over $5 million to over the past three years. But today Mr Halabi appeared in a courtroom in the Israeli town of Beersheba, wearing a prison uniform, flanked by two armed Israeli guards. He has been charged with using millions of World Vision funds to pay Hamas fighters, buy arms, pay for Hamas activities and build fortifications. World Vision Australia chief executive officer Tim Costello said Mr Halabi has worked with World Vision for 10 years, and that they have "no reason to believe" the allegations against their employee are true. "I'm profoundly shocked. And they are very explosive allegations," Mr Costello said.

"We have PricewaterhouseCoopers that audit us each year. We've got the 2014 audits, the 2015 audits that just came in a few weeks ago.

"We have not just our own internal processes to check about connections to terror or terrorists � we have an independent body outside World Vision that interviews and does security checks." Israeli authorities accuse Mr Halabi of initiating a greenhouse project in order to use the greenhouses to hide the sites where terror tunnels were being dug. 'We have only heard one side' World Vision said it still has not been briefed on the charges and has seen no evidence. 'Hamas are not extremists' When Islamic State fighters moved towards Gaza territory, Hamas attempted to distance itself by marketing itself as a moderate alternative. "This is what is really worrying us," Mr Costello said. "I was a lawyer for 15 years and I can tell you there are always two sides, and we have only heard one side. "So I'm really wanting a fair process, and the other side, which is Mohamed's side to actually be head before judgment is made." Mr Costello said he is concerned over the conditions of Mr Halabi's detention and alleged confession. "It certainly concerns me that a person can be in detention for 25 days without seeing a lawyer," he said. "Over 50 days without seeing family members and even World Vision staff. That certainly does concern me."

DFAT investigating with highest priority

The Israeli intelligence agency Shin Bet said there is no evidence World Vision's main office was aware of Mr Halabi's alleged actions. Statement from DFAT The allegations that a locally employed World Vision employee in the Gaza Strip has diverted aid funds from a range of international donors and provided support to Hamas are deeply troubling. World Vision has received Australian funds for programs in the Palestinian Territories. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) is investigating this as a matter of the highest priority. Officials are urgently seeking more information from World Vision and the Israeli authorities. We are suspending the provision of further funding to World Vision for programs in the Palestinian Territories until the investigation is complete. DFAT has in place rigorous processes to investigate any report that aid funding has been misappropriated, consistent with DFAT's Fraud Control and Anti-Corruption Plan.

Australia's aid to the Palestinian Territories is intended for vital humanitarian and development assistance to the Palestinian community. Any diversion of the generous support of the Australian and international community for military or terrorist purposes by Hamas is to be deplored and can only harm the Palestinian people. But an Israeli spokesperson told the ABC that the charity is going to have to answer some tough questions, saying it was "astounding" that millions could allegedly be siphoned off without oversight. "We do not absolutely do not support Hamas or have anything to do with terror which is why these allegations � particularly because we have seen no evidence � have really profoundly shocked us," Mr Costello said. A Hamas spokesman in Gaza claimed the group had "no connection to Mr Halabi and therefore all Israeli accusations are void".

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop was not available for comment.

But in a statement, a spokesperson for the department told the ABC it is investigating the incident as a matter of the highest priority, with officials urgently seeking more information from World Vision and Israeli authorities.

I sure hope they aren't a terrorist or that they don't end up in a place like Stryla because:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-05/brandis-expects-attorneys-general-to-keep-terrorists-in-jail/7692038

quote:

George Brandis says proposal to keep convicted terrorists behind bars will get state, territory support By political reporter Matthew Doran Posted about 5 hours ago

RELATED STORY: 'Clear and present danger': Indefinite detention a response to growing terror threat, Turnbull says
RELATED STORY: 'Threat to community': Brother of IS jihadist released on parole
RELATED STORY: Push for new laws to detain 'serious risk' terrorists indefinitely
RELATED STORY: Parliamentary committee backs plans for tough anti-terror laws

Federal Attorney-General George Brandis expects his state and territory counterparts to back the Commonwealth's proposal for convicted terrorists to be kept in jail once their sentences have finished, if they are deemed to still pose a threat to the community. The plan, announced by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Senator Brandis last week, would involve periodic reviews of the threat posed by a convicted terrorist, with judges given the discretion to keep them behind bars. The Attorney-General said he expected support for the policy, which was similar to laws keeping sex offenders off the streets. "It is, as I say, modelled on existing � or some existing state legislation � in relation to other categories of serious crime," Senator Brandis said. "I am expecting that all of my colleagues, all of my counterpart attorneys-general will agree to this because it's a very important measure from the point of view of community safety."

Civil libertarians have raised concerns with the proposal, arguing it avoided dealing with the real issues in combating terrorism.

Senator Brandis disagreed, and said it was indicative of the Government putting in place measures to stay ahead of the threat. He would not comment if such a proposal would have kept prisoners such as Ahmed Elomar, the brother Islamic State terrorist Mohammad Elomar, behind bars. The Attorney-General said he would not comment on specific prisoners, or on Ahmed Elomar's case. "This legislation will only apply to serious terrorists coming to the end of a sentence of imprisonment, who continue to pose in the eyes of a judge on the basis of admissible evidence including psychological assessments and so forth, an unacceptably high risk to community safety," Senator Brandis said.

Rule of Law? Pfft stop living in the past. Transparent process? Listen sunshine now you have to get in the van.

Julie Bishop in a job creation proposal - Jobs and _mesothelioma growth!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-04/asbestos-scare-testing-underway-at-68-buildings-across-australia/7691534?WT.ac=localnews_sydney

quote:

Asbestos testing underway in 68 buildings including Sydney's The Star, Chris O'Brien's Lifehouse By Jayne Margetts Updated yesterday at 7:06pm

Testing for asbestos is underway in 68 buildings across Australia including Sydney's Chris O'Brien Lifehouse after the deadly substance was found at Perth Children's Hospital and a Brisbane office tower.

Key points:

Chris O'Brien Lifehouse, Westfield Sydney, The Star to be tested for asbestos
68 buildings nationwide may be impacted
Chinese firm Yuanda supplied all with products
All of the buildings had been supplied with products from Yuanda - a manufacturer in China - where asbestos is legal.

Brad Parker, the national assistant secretary of the Construction Forestry, Mining and Energy sector Union (CFMEU) construction division said he is concerned for his members. "It's building workers in this country who are exposed or potentially exposed to this deadly product and the end result of that of course is this deadly disease, asbestosis and mesothelioma and it's a terrible long, suffering death and it's just horrendous," Mr Parker said. Other buildings under scrutiny include the Westfield shopping centre in Sydney's CBD, and the Star Casino at Pyrmont.

Tests on three sites at Barangaroo have returned negative results.

CEO of the Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency Peter Tighe said workers would assume buildings constructed since an asbestos ban was imposed in 2003 were free of the substance. "The problem is someone comes in to do refurbishment work or to make some adjustment because there's a change in the facade or in the ceiling tiles, they don't know they're working with an asbestos containing material," he said. A spokesman for Yuanda said it has now appointed an independent consultant to test all of the buildings it supplied products to. "We have appointed independent consultants... to test every single one of the 68 locations nationally where our products have been used," the spokesman said.
"We encourage building owners or managers to take advantage of this free service, to ensure peace of mind for owners, managers, tenants and residents."

Putting Yuanda in charge bad move: union

Mr Parker said putting Yuanda in charge of testing was a bad move. "That's like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse, that's not a good result," he said. He said independent testing should be carried out by the regulator SafeWork NSW. But Peter Dunphy, executive director of SafeWork NSW said he will be keeping a close eye on Yuanda. "We get the full results, we will follow up and we will actually be doing site visits to confirm and to verify and doing our own assessment and testing if necessary," Mr Dunphy said. Mr Parker said it was "disgraceful" that so many buildings in Sydney may be affected. "You've got the Chris O'Brien Lifehouse, which was a purpose-built building for cancer patients that could contain asbestos, cancer causing product. This needs to be looked at."

Senator calls for tighter border controls

A spokesman for Lifehouse told the ABC Yuanda supplied some of its external aluminium cladding and insulation. But he said the material used here was not the same as that used in buildings in Brisbane and Perth where asbestos was found.
Independent Senator Nick Xenophon is now calling for the mandatory testing of all building products from China and other countries where asbestos is legal. "My concern is that Border Force has not given this the priority it deserves, given that asbestos exposure can and does kill right now 700 Australian each year." Mr Tighe has backed the call for tougher border controls. "While you've got a ban in place if you don't keep due diligence in place in relation to imports the ban can mean nothing, we're trying to remove asbestos, we don't want more coming in."

So what would Border Farce potato Dutton say? I'm very glad you asked.

Are you a muppet? If Y then click link

quote:

Dutton blames CFMEU for companies importing asbestos products

�There are a number of reasons that they�re cutting corners � one is that they are being driven into the ground by the CFMEU and these other thugs,� says Peter Dutton. Picture: Chris Higgins The Arsetralian12:00AM August 5, 2016 ANDREW BURRELL WA Chief Reporter Perth REBECCA PUDDY Reporter Adelaide

Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has attacked the construction union for forcing up building costs and driving Australian companies to �cut corners� by importing cheap Chinese materials that may contain deadly asbestos. As he defended the government against claims it was failing to stop the growing number of companies importing asbestos-laced products, Mr Dutton blamed the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union for fuelling difficult conditions in the building Industry. �They talk about a 40 per cent additional cost in building a block of units because of CFMEU �involvement, and obviously that has some behaviours, including driving builders to use this product, which is completely unacceptable,� he told Sydney radio station 2GB. �There are a number of reasons that they�re cutting corners � one is that they are being �driven into the ground by the CFMEU and these other thugs � walking around on building sites, including bikies employed by the CFMEU.�� His comments follow The Australian�s report yesterday revealing that an independent review of Australia�s asbestos border controls had found a need for better investigations and prosecutions. Mr Dutton said it was �ridiculous� to suggest his department�s enforcement arm, the Australian Border Force, could inspect all 2.4 million containers coming across the border.

The head of the CFMEU�s construction division, Dave Noon�an, said Mr Dutton�s �attempt to blame the union showed he was trying to �cover up his embarrassment� over the Border Force�s failure to do its job. He said the union had been �uncovering asbestos in materials used on building sites, including last month at the $1.2 billion Perth Children�s Hospital and the 1 William St office tower in Brisbane. It was deeply concerned workers were being �exposed to contamination from the lethal material. �This foolish comment from the minister demonstrates his incompetence,�� he said. The union�s national secretary, Michael O�Connor, this week wrote to Trade Minister Steve Ciobo calling for the suspension of free-trade agreement talks with India � the world�s second biggest manufacturer of products with �asbestos � until there were better �systems to stop imports. �(India) uses asbestos in the manufacture of products including building materials like cement roofing sheets, wall panels and pipes, and auto components like brakes � and brake linings,�� he wrote.

The head of the federal government�s Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency, Peter Tighe, told the ABC yesterday that Customs inspected only a small amount of all material coming into Australia. �When you�re looking at less than 10 per cent of materials coming into Australia being inspected, you�re not going to pick up a lot of the breaches,� he said. South Australian senator Nick Xenophon said he would introduce legislation to mandate testing for products imported from overseas companies that had come to the attention of the Border Force. The private member�s bill would increase testing of suspect items coming into Australia, and increase the fines for those who breached the law, he said. �There�s been a ban for a number of years but the ban has not been effective and I have not been confident with the way the Border Force has dealt with these issues,� Senator Xenophon said. �Anyone who knowingly brings in asbestos items should also face a jail term.� A higher level of scrutiny would be applied to imports from countries and companies that had lied, forged documents or had insufficient regulatory control, he said.

Asbestos Victims Association South Australia president Terry Miller said his group had been warning about �imports coming from China in particular. Death from asbestos-related disease was extremely painful and degrading, he said, and �once a company is identified, we should put a ban on that company and any subsidiary company for a minimum of five years�.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2016 02:05

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Request title change to The Greens' Gas Chamber TIA.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2016 04:27

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Lizard Combatant posted:

Clean Gas shill spotted. Still injecting high pressure liquid into those boreholes of yours, eh? Contaminating the ground water with nasty deposits.

If you mean conserving valuable phosphates within a fragile rain forest ecosystem and daily making the planet a better place then why yes! Yes I am! Also this gas ain't 'clean'

# ¿ Aug 5, 2016 05:43

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

kirbysuperstar posted:

First Dog keeps showing up in my Google Now feed. What did I do to deserve this?

Are you Australian? Some questions answer themselves.

The Herald Sun came out very strongly against the ABS and the changes to the census today. Now I'm a little conflicted.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 03:13

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Mr Chips posted:

if I were camped on the side of the road on Tuesday night (while driving between Perth and Adelaide), do I have to complete the census?

Yes, but for the household you are normally domiciled in the answers are all null. So effectively the information on you is not collected.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2016 05:25

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Well it looks like we will get an early indication of exactly how full of poo our new crossbench are:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/mark-dreyfus-says-labor-will-%27stand-together/7699518

quote:

Mark Dreyfus: Labor will 'stand together with ethnic communities' to fight attempts to change section 18C Monday 8 August 2016 7:37AM (view full episode)

When Parliament returns at the end of this month, Liberal Democrat David Leyonhelm is set introduce a Bill to altogether dump the contentious section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, which makes it illegal to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person because of their race, colour or ethnic origin. Leyonhelm has the support of several of the new crossbenchers, including One Nation's Malcolm Roberts, who says minorities would not be hurt or offended unless they chose to take offence.

Attorney General George Brandis says the Government has no plans to reform 18C, though some Coalition MPs publicly support change. Shadow Attorney General Mark Dreyfus says there is 'no need' to change section 18C.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-08/xenophon-wont-support-removing-18c-racial-discrimination-act/7699374

quote:

Nick Xenophon rules out support for removing 18C from Racial Discrimination Act By political reporter Stephanie Anderson Updated 37 minutes ago

Crossbench senator Nick Xenophon has ruled out supporting any future changes to the Racial Discrimination Act. Liberal Democrat senator David Leyonhjelm plans to introduce a bill to remove section 18C of the Act, which makes it unlawful for someone to do an act that is reasonably likely to "offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate" someone because of their race or ethnicity. Crossbench senators Derryn Hinch, Bob Day and One Nation politicians have also voiced support for amending 18C, which was brought in by the Keating government in 1995.

Attorney-General George Brandis ruled out changes to the legislation last week.

Senator Xenophon has told the ABC he would not support any changes, citing the failed attempt for amendments by the former Abbott government. He said the proposed amendments, pulled off the table by former prime minister Tony Abbott in 2014, "weren't well considered". "I can understand some of the arguments put forward," he said. "But when you have both the Jewish community and Arab community on a unity ticket, in the same room, saying 'we think these amendments are reckless', then you know this is an area that we shouldn't go down."

If Labor and the Greens also maintain their opposition to changes, there is little chance any amendments will pass the Upper House.

Shadow Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus said attacks on the Act were driven by "ill-informed comment", and voiced concerns that there would be a "rise in hate speech in the community" if the Act was weakened. And he said the issue would be a test of Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's leadership. "Malcolm Turnbull has to rule out making 18C in any way a bargaining chip [for the crossbench]," he said. The Racial Discrimination Act was first introduced in 1975 and changes to 18C were made in 1995 when Parliament passed the Racial Hatred Act.

Why isn't Billy Boy Leak being charged under 18C?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/indigenous-dads:-stories-of-indigenous-fatherhood/7699848

quote:

#IndigenousDads: stories of Indigenous fatherhood counter Bill Leak cartoon Monday 8 August 2016 8:35AM (view full episode)

Australians have taken to social media to share photos and stories of Indigenous fatherhood and family, following a Bill Leak cartoon published in The Australian last Thursday. The cartoon depicted a police officer holding an Aboriginal child, telling the child's father to teach him about personal responsibility. The father was drawn holding a can of beer and saying, 'Yeah righto, what's his name then?' The publication was met with howls of outrage, and prompted some advertisers to question their relationship with the national broadsheet. Over the weekend, the hashtag #IndigenousDads sprung up in opposition to the 'offensive and racist' stereotyping in the cartoon.

Joel Bayliss, the Indigenous father who began the hashtag, joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

loving refos taking aw medals! Of course they swim well! All the bad swimmers are dead. Should make 'em swim wearing niquabs or just leave the towels on their heads.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-07/syrian-swimmer-yusra-mardini%27s-olympic-debut/7698058

quote:

Rio 2016: Syrian swimmer Yusra Mardini makes debut for first Refugee Olympic Team in butterfly heats Updated yesterday at 11:13am

It was what Yusra Mardini left unsaid, rather than the conventional words of excitement, that made the bigger impression after the teenager's debut in the Olympic pool on Saturday. "I was only thinking about water and the last competitions and where I am now," Mardini told reporters when asked what went through her mind ahead of her 100 metre butterfly heat. The Syrian 18-year-old is swimming for the world's first refugee Olympic team. The first of the refugees in action, she had looked down briefly before stepping on the platform. "I left swimming for two years so now we are working to get back to my level," said Mardini, who won her heat of five swimmers but finished 41st overall, when asked how her time compared to previous ones. There was no need to explain the two-year break in her career, or indeed what kind of water might have been on her mind.

The first Refugee Team

The team of 10 refugee athletes have no flag or national anthem, but now have a home in the Olympic Village. Just last year she was fleeing Syria, making a treacherous sea crossing from Turkey to Greece and arriving in Berlin with her sister. She swam part of that crossing over to the island of Lesbos, helping other refugees who were in the water and were unable to swim. "It was quite hard to think that you are a swimmer and you might end up dying in the water," she said later. A competitive swimmer in Syria, she is now part of a refugee team backed by the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

She has met the Pope and been feted in Rio.

"It was really cool and everything was amazing and everyone welcomed us," she said of the opening ceremony, speaking as reporters crowded around. "It was really amazing and an incredible feeling to compete here in the Olympics and I am happy and glad for that � I'm really happy to be here and to see all of the champions and other swimmers here." She shrugged off a suggestion that all the attention around her might have prevented her from just enjoying the experience of the Games. "This is not difficult because all of those people want to show everyone what I'm doing � and that we didn't stop our refugee trip and it continues," she said. And then it was back to sport again. "I'm really excited for the 100 [metre] freestyle and I hope I'm going to swim better."

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 02:16

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Fanatic posted:

Can someone explain to me the uproar in regards to providing my name and address on the Census and how it is any different to doing so on countless other documents that the government already possess on me (e.g. driver's licence, passport, medicare, ATO etc)?

Like sure it could get hacked, but presumably all these other things could get hacked too? idgi

You provide information on the basis that you are receiving something for which that data is required (Driver's licence, tax return). The ATO, don't need to know your health history etc. This is not the case with the census where it is the aggregate of data that is the worthwhile bit (Longitudinal data issues not withstanding).

There is no reason to attach your name to information that you may now falsify rather than report honestly as you have before. It's a monumental erosion of the trust and faith that people once had in the ABS and atm couldn't be a more spectacularly badly run PR train wreck. Data privacy is especially sensitive as the online Indelibility aspect of your life didn't exist 20 years ago. Anyone who says your online data is 100% safe is at best deluded and usually flat out lying. The Statistician has said precisely this on numerous recent occasions.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2016 07:17

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Noted 'good poster' Amethyst.

I hope that knowing death threats are bannable will improve some other people's posting too.

thatbastardken posted:

i for one am not loving any animals

Me thinks the Green's candidate doth protest too much.

Rather than questioning whether the Chinese should be buying Ausgrid surely the question should be why are we selling it at all. Screw the security case, where's the business case?

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/ausgrid-sale:-%27security-case-hasn%27t-been/7703664

quote:

Ausgrid sale: 'security case hasn't been made' says Australia-China relations expert Tuesday 9 August 2016 6:50AM (view full episode)

National security experts are urging the Treasurer to block a $10 billion Chinese bid for a 50 per cent stake in New South Wales' electricity distributor, Ausgrid. Peter Jennings, Executive Director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, argues that China's more aggressive stance in the South China Sea makes it an unsuitable business partner in the ownership of strategic assets like an electricity grid. But James Laurenceson, Deputy Director of the Australia-China Relations Institute, says Australia has nothing to fear from Chinese investment.

I would have thought the South China Sea bit would have carried more weight but as I'm not an AJ I obviously don't know poo poo.

This puts Bill Leak's cartoon in an even less wholesome light (Turns out the coppers are the bad guys. Who knew? :shrug:

).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-08/dylan-voller27s-troubled-past/7701704

quote:

Dylan Voller's mother breaks her silence on his juvenile detention treatment and troubled past 7.30 By Kate Wild Updated yesterday at 9:26pm

RELATED STORY: NT teen Dylan Voller strapped to chair multiple times, guard claims
RELATED STORY: Teen abused in detention would have responded to kindness, sister says
RELATED STORY: 'Like Guantanamo': Video shows child hooded, strapped to chair

The mother of Dylan Voller believes she "failed" her son when she reported him to police, beginning a childhood of imprisonment which eventually led to him being strapped to a chair with a spitting hood over his head. Dylan, who is at the centre of the Don Dale Juvenile Detention Centre scandal, had been difficult from an early age, Joanne Voller told 7.30. Alice Springs primary schools were unable to deal with him and he attended at least five different schools between the ages of six and nine. Joanne Voller said she contacted the NT Department of Children and Families for help when Dylan was 11. "That was the time when he broke my window and I was told if I reported him for breaking my window he'd get the help that he needed," she said. "At the time he needed counselling to help with his anger issues, but it's not what he received in jail. If I had of done something like they did to my son and that was in the name of caring for my child I'd be in jail right now, so I don't know what they expected me to do to care for my child. I was seeking help, I was asking for help. I in no way thought he would be hooded and chained to a chair or thrown in isolation for 200 days at a time. I don't see that as counselling or helping him. I really feel like I failed him by ringing the police that day when he broke my window, to be honest."

'They don't see the underlying problems'

Dylan's family said he had emotional problems which should have been dealt with. "Something happened in Dylan's life that made him really angry that he didn't talk about until he was older," Joanne Voller said. According to his sister, Kirra Voller, Dylan grew up not trusting people. "I think that's where his naughtiness comes in because it's a lack of trust for the people that he's supposed to trust, so they just think he's rebelling and being a naughty person because of whatever reasons � he's got ADHD or he's troubled � they don't see the underlying problems that are really affecting him," she said. Antoinette Carroll, a youth justice advocate and Dylan's case worker, agreed Dylan had not received the care he needed. "As soon as he entered into early childhood his needs had to be identified," she said. "His mother was very proactive in trying to get therapeutic supports in place, which is why she contacted the department."

'Pretty much his whole childhood he's spent in jail'

Dylan is now in an adult prison in Darwin serving time for a serious assault. "I'd say out of the last seven years he's probably been out six, seven, eight months since [age] 12, so pretty much his whole childhood he's spent in jail," Joanne Voller said. Dylan's lawyers have petitioned the Northern Territory Administrator to exercise his prerogative of mercy and grant Dylan an early release. "He's really trying not to get his hopes up about getting out," Kirra Voller said. "He really wants to get out, he deserves to get out because of everything he's been through. I think he's entitled to that at least."

Ms Carroll said that without intensive therapy for Dylan, she does not know what his future might hold.

"I'd like to think that it will be bright and it will be wonderful but gee, it's a lot of long-term abuse and early childhood abuse to recover from," Ms Carroll said. "Dylan knows he's got a lot of love in his life, lot of family support, community support, but at the end of the day hopefully that will carry him through."

Cost of intervention versus cost of incarceration

"Looking at his challenging behaviours, getting a full diagnosis of exactly what Dylan was presenting with, if it was ADHD or early childhood trauma � there's a whole raft of reports that have now been presented before the courts," Ms Carroll said. "But the lack of a systemic collaborative approach for him and his family really was a failing. These were issues that were long identified through the schooling system and through the courts. Endless court reports were presented on his behalf from services to say this is what should happen, clearly outlining a good post-release plan, but again that needed resourcing. "Sadly when he was in the care of the Department of Children and Families they wouldn't come to that, which was extraordinary because the cost was quite expensive but this was ongoing 24/7 support to the family � very cost effective in the long term, when we see the lengthy incarceration cost that Dylan Voller has gone through."

Making new monsters every day.

Germany appears to about to follow Australia down the rabbit hole with their first 'Cornelia Rau'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/chinese-tourist-mistaken-for-refugee-in-germany/7703352

quote:

Chinese tourist mistaken for asylum seeker in Germany after losing wallet Updated about 3 hours ago

RELATED STORY: Merkel moves to integrate new arrivals
RELATED STORY: Obama says Merkel 'on right side of history' over refugee stance (Lol)

A Chinese tourist got tangled up in the red tape of Germany's migrant influx by mistake and was stuck in a refugee home for nearly two weeks, the Red Cross says. Officials thought the backpacker, who spoke neither German nor English, "needed help" after landing in Stuttgart Airport in south-west Germany on July 4, Christoph Schluetermann of the German Red Cross said. The 31-year-old man, who had lost his wallet, was taken to a reception centre in the nearby town of Heidelberg. There, he unwittingly filled out an asylum request form, following the local authorities' instructions, Mr Schluetermann said. On July 6, he was transferred to a reception centre in the western city of Dortmund, where his passport was taken from him. He was then moved to another shelter in Duelmen near the Dutch border. "Machinery kicked into gear from which he couldn't immediately escape," Mr Schluetermann told news agency DPA. Public broadcaster WDR said the man complied with standard procedure for refugees, including allowing his fingerprints to be taken, undergoing a medical examination and accepting pocket money.<Snip>

Well at least a got a nice new star embroidered on his jacket. Dude should be grateful

I like this one it's so salty!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-08/verrender-four-myths-busted-why-we-need-banking-royal-commission/7699794

quote:

Four myths busted: Why we need a banking royal commission ANALYSIS The Drum By Ian Verrender Updated yesterday at 11:59am

Tens of thousands of Australians have had their lives ruined by the major banks. If there's no need for a Royal Commission because ASIC has greater powers, then why is the Turnbull Government wasting time and money on a parliamentary inquiry that has less power than both? Ian Verrender writes. Welcome to this week's edition of Monday Conundrum. Today we have a real doozy. Let's see if you can twist your mind around this: If there's no need for a Royal Commission into banks because the Australian Securities and Investments Commission has greater powers, then why is the Turnbull Government wasting time and money on a parliamentary inquiry that has less power than both? You'll need quite some time to think through that one. In salad terms, rather than the rocket, the newly elected government instead has opted for the iceberg; and a particularly wet and limp sample of the family Asteraceae it is too. Given the admirable speed with which the government responded to the disturbing images emanating from the Northern Territory's juvenile detention centres, its longstanding reluctance to bring bankers to heel is perplexing.

You'll forever hear financiers argue that because of its strength, our banking system sailed through the financial crisis. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Surely it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that our financial services industry is the biggest political donor in the country. The big four alone donated more than $730,000 in the year to June last year. And that's before bank and finance industry lobby groups kicked the tin. The comparison with the NT inquiry is entirely valid. Tens of thousands of Australians have had their lives ruined by the mounting toll of atrocities that have come to light in the past decade from the major banks' role in the Storm Financial meltdown, the financial planning and insurance scandals through to rigging of the interest rate setting markets. For the past decade, we have been regaled with tales of rampant fee gouging, conflicts of interest and falsification of loan documents driven by a sales culture that has elevated profits above all else. While last week's decision to not pass on the full Reserve Bank rate cut reignited community anger, it was merely a continuation of the cartel-like behaviour that has seen the big banks once again acting in unison, just as they have for the past 20 years.

Here are a couple of myths the banks love to perpetuate that need busting.

1. Bank funding costs

If you believe the big four banks, they simply can't pass on Reserve Bank cuts in full because the rate it sets only partially determines their cost of raising money. And the cost from other sources is rising. That's entirely true. But before we start, it's worth remembering that banks are like every other kind of business. They buy money cheaply and make a profit by selling it at a higher price. In a normal competitive market, businesses are price takers. They have no power over what they charge. The only businesses that can fix prices are monopolies or oligopolies, where a couple of big players act in unison. Sound familiar? Tuesday was a classic case. Within minutes of the Reserve Bank decision, the Commonwealth Bank announced that it would pass on just half the cut to borrowers but would bump up the rate it pays to investors for some term deposits. Blow me down, if during the course of the next hour or so, the other three did exactly the same. It was uncanny.

2. We need a strong banking system

Who has ever argued we need a weak one? This little smokescreen belches across the media every time there is any criticism about the huge profits our banks generate. The Commonwealth Bank is hurtling towards a record $9 billion annual profit, due to be unveiled this week. There is no denying the enormity of the earnings. But that's just one measure of its heavyweight status. It is the amount it generates off its capital base that is truly astounding. Last year, it managed a return on equity of 18.2 per cent. Compare that to Citi, one of the world's biggest banks. While its earnings were larger, Citi could only generate a return of about half that of the CBA. The other three local banks aren't too far behind the CBA on that measure. In short, they are cash generating machines, the likes of which global banking behemoths can but dream. A study by The Australia Institute released last week puts those earnings in another light. Our banks generate an annual income equivalent of 2.9 per cent of GDP. That's Olympic gold and puts them in a class of their own. In the US, American bank earnings - massive as they are - pull in around 1.2 per cent of GDP.

The reason they can achieve these magnificent results is because of their pricing power and their stranglehold over not just banking but insurance, superannuation and almost every other form of financial service you can think of. We need a strong banking system, not one that exerts too much power.

3. No other industry is subject to this kind of scrutiny

That's debateable. What isn't up for argument is that no other industry enjoys the kind of taxpayer support that our financial sector enjoys. Farmers and small businesses can go broke. The car industry can be told to pack and leave. But not the banks. You'll forever hear financiers and their apologists argue that because of its strength, our banking system sailed through the financial crisis eight years ago unscathed. Nothing could be further from the truth. After furious lobbying, initially from Macquarie Group, the Rudd government imposed a ban on short selling of bank and finance stocks in an effort to stave off collapsing share prices. It then guaranteed bank deposits. On top of that, it handed our banks the keys to the country's AAA credit rating. If it hadn't done so, our entire banking system was in danger of collapse. Having borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars from wholesale credit markets offshore, they were facing ruin because credit was frozen and no-one would lend them the cash to refinance. Taxpayers rode to the rescue. Our banks borrowed $120 billion using that taxpayer guarantee, a bailout never before seen and unlikely to ever be witnessed again. They've since argued it wasn't a bailout because they had to pay fees to use the guarantee. You have to chuckle; bankers complaining about being charged a fee. It doesn't end there. A Reserve Bank study released as part of a FOI request in May revealed our four major banks get an annual $4 billion leg up as a result of that emergency GFC action. Foreign lenders give them a rate discount because they now know Australian taxpayers will bail them out if anything goes wrong.

4. The bad behaviour is overstated

It's all the fault of a few bad apples. Why are orchardists tarnished in this manner? Globally, banks have been fined a collective $US200 billion and, while admitting criminal behaviour in the manipulation of interest rates, foreign exchange and gold markets have seen a mere handful of employees end up behind bars. At least the UK and US regulators were on the front foot in those cases. Our corporate cop has only just gotten around to launching action on the rate rigging and so far, the case appears far from solid. So, ask yourself this: Why are our banks so afraid of a Royal Commission, especially if it's all the fault of those few bad apples? The answer lies partly in the enormous bonuses paid to those interest rate traders now accused of being rogue. You only score a $5 million annual bonus for generating vast amounts of wealth to the organisation, which in turn bumps up the bonuses for everyone above you. How much wealth? That's what our banks don't want you to know.

Oh and the whole global jewish conspiracy thing.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2016 01:45

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Well it was the train wreck we had to have I suppose. Following on from the entire Privacy PR trainwreck the ABS immediately faceplanted a jumbo jet full of their own hubris into the still smouldering wreckage. Well loving done muppets!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-10/could-our-privacy-be-at-risk-after-census-hack/7712442

quote:

Census: Privacy not 'absolutely' safe after website attack from overseas hackers, expert says Updated 19 minutes ago Rob Livingstone

Data breaches or malware attacks could have also occurred during the four denial of service (DOS) attacks that led to the shutting down of the census website last night, a technology expert says. These kinds of attacks overload a website by simulating lots of users trying to access the site at the same time. During a DOS attack, "you may have some malware or some hacking which is separate to the denial of service", according to University of Technology Sydney fellow and IT expert Rob Livingstone. "[In a DOS attack] they just want to take the site down and render it unavailable. A data breach, from a privacy perspective, is not usually associated with a DOS attack," he said. "But, you can't say absolutely that privacy is not a risk because with the internet, as soon as you expose yourself to the outside world, anything can happen."

This morning, the Australian Bureau of Statistics' (ABS) David Kalisch assured Australians "that the data they provided is safe". (Is this like the guarantee that the census site is 100% bullet proof and won't fail or the one about never being hacked and having appropriate countermeasures in place? Because I can't quite keep up with the shear tonnage of loving bullshit spewing from your gob anymore David.)

In the lead-up to census night, the ABS spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on load testing and said its servers could handle 1 million forms per hour.(As others have pointed out this level of innumeracy in a statistician is deeply concerning) Mr Livingstone said proper risk assessment and the implementing of counter measures should prevent DOS attacks from occurring. "[But] the bottom line is that the service is still down, the counter measures have not been effective," he said.

The census website was unavailable again this morning.

Earlier on Tuesday evening Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull tweeted that he had completed the census and it was "easy to do" but thousands of Australians were prevented from taking part as the ABS website crashed. The ABS had estimated that two-thirds of Australians would fill out the census online this year for the first time, rather than on paper. Mr Kalisch said he aimed to have the website up and running as soon as possible to allow people to complete their census forms. People officially have until September 23 to complete the census online, and the ABS has said people will not be fined for not completing the forms on census night.

Oh schadenfreude on a split roll batperson! Allow me to be among the first to say that a DOS attack isn't that big a deal. However to have the muppets who kept talking about 'Confident of stability on the night', '100% safe', 'never been hacked' getting their faces rubbed in it is pretty satisfying. More to the point the DOS attack may mask any number of other exploits being utilised by actual hackers to find further vulnerabilities in the IT architecture. If Kalisch and/or the minister (Micheal McCormack)doesn't resign over this they can kiss goodbye to any census data from me forever. A small threat but I'm not alone. If you make guarantees after lying like a bastard and it all goes to poo poo what is an appropriate standard to be held to? If lying alone isn't enough surely adding highly visible national disaster must start to tip the balance.

And here's our genius Minister

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...808-gqnobg.html

quote:

Minister says Census 'no worse than Facebook' as Nick Xenophon risks jail

The minister responsible for the census has compared it to Facebook, saying concern about its ability to track people is "much ado about nothing". (facebook is the very worst way to allay my fears about privacy MUPPET.)

Michael McCormack, who also has responsibility for small business, was responding to Senate powerbroker Nick Xenophon, who on Monday vowed to withhold his name from the census and face fines of $180 per day rather than have his name kept on file. Politicians are refusing to put their names on their census forms amid concerns about privacy and information being held on to for four years. The Bureau has announced that the names collected in this year's census will be retained instead of being thrown away after processing, as in the past. They will be used to create linkage keys, which will allow the personal information in the census to be linked to information gleaned from other surveys to provide a richer picture of those surveyed. The answers could also be linked to medical, criminal, road traffic and educational records. Although the names will be destroyed within four years, the linkage keys created from the names will be kept indefinitely.

Mr McCormack said the government would examine Senator Xenophon's proposal "in the fullness of time" but expected him to fill out his census form regardless. "I think we're making far too much of this, names and addresses and privacy breaches," he said. "Anybody with a supermarket loyalty card, anybody who does tap-and-go, anybody who buys things online, they provide more information indeed probably to what is available to ABS staff." (Oh double down on being a muppet you MUPPET a very bad further analogy that makes the point against you more eloquently than you imagine.) "I note with some humour really that many people are going on Twitter and Facebook making various comments about the Bureau of Statistics, about the census, and about me as well, when in fact wherever they go, it tracks you, on your Facebook account, so I can't really see what the big deal is. I think sometimes it's much ado about nothing." (Keep up with the yucks today MUPPET) Reminded that the census was compulsory, whereas Facebook and Twitter were not, Mr McCormack said the census had to be compulsory "to allow the government and the Bureau to track people, and for governments to get the raw data so that we can provide the sorts of infrastructure". (Way to not answer the question in good faith MUPPET)

The Bureau's chief, David Kalisch, said people were more likely to tell the truth if they had to provide their names. (Yes exactly the opposite of what every previous study into this very issue has found. Including several conducted by the ABS - RESIGN MUPPET)

Senator Xenophon said the knowledge that the names would be retained and turned into keys used to track them might make people less likely to tell the truth on census forms. He warned that it could be "financially crippling" for others to follow his lead. He would have to think about whether he went to jail rather than pay the fines. Mr McCormack said Mr Kalisch had briefed Senator Xenophon late in the day and believed his position had softened. "I am sure he will be better informed, and I look forward to him filling out the census, like the other 100 per cent of Australians should," he said. Speaking on his return to Adelaide from Canberra late on Monday, an angry Senator Xenophon said the briefing consisted of him listening on the phone for 15 minutes before catching a plane. "Listening politely to someone does not mean you agree with their position," he said.

Senators Sarah Hanson-Young and Scott Ludlam will also refuse to provide their names.

Anna Johnston, a former deputy NSW privacy commissioner, writes in Fairfax papers on Tuesday that she won't be completing the census at all because she hasn't been asked for consent to being tracked by her name. "I know that I could give the ABS misinformation instead," she writes. "But I won't do that, because I do believe in the integrity of the census data. I don't want people to have to give misinformation in order to protect themselves." Mr McCormack said the decision to retain names was taken by the Bureau rather than the government but that the government approved of it. ABS census chief Duncan Young said more than 200,000 people had already submitted their online forms. Many more had started to complete them, saved them and not yet pressed 'send'.

And this was before the plane crash into the trainwreck.

In nothing new:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/quality-of-census-data-will-be-'compromised'/7712458

quote:

Quality of census data will be 'compromised' says Andrew Leigh Wednesday 10 August 2016 6:49AM (view full episode)

Last night, the national census ended in disaster, after the Australian Bureau of Statistics website crashed, leaving millions of frustrated people unable to lodge their census forms. The Bureau's Chief Statistician, David Kalisch, says the site was taken down after four separate cyber attacks from overseas. The Government had earlier dismissed concerns about the online census as 'much ado about nothing'. Assistant Shadow Treasurer Andrew Leigh joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

Facebook you say?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-10/controversial-facebook-page-blokes-advice-shut-down/7712300

quote:

Facebook removes Blokes Advice page after anti-domestic violence petition launched By Kym Agius Updated 32 minutes ago

So far today police in Australia would have dealt with on average 327 domestic violence matters Learn more about these numbers.

Controversial Facebook page Blokes Advice has been shut down by the social media giant, however a domestic violence support group which petitioned for its closure fears replacement pages are gaining traction. Blokes Advice, an invite-only Facebook page which amassed 202,000 followers after it started in Brisbane in May, has been under fire after posts emerged saying women needed to be taught a "lesson", "gang banged" and punched in the face after oral sex. Members of the secret group also reportedly posted photos and status updates about raping women, giving out contact details of women and urging other members to send them abusive messages. Less than a fortnight ago, Facebook removed posts that violated its community standards, but allowed the page to stand as most members were not involved in the offensive content. A Facebook spokesperson however confirmed on Wednesday that the site had since been taken down. "Since the recent media coverage of this group, there has been an increase in the number of posts that do violate our policies, and consequently the group has been removed," he said. "Where there are a large number of posts in a group that violate our policies, we remove the entire group." Thousands follow new sites The Blokes Advice administration team said it was not told why the site was banned, adding that 3,500 members had come over to its new website, which was off Facebook.

Family violence support services:

1800 Respect national helpline 1800 737 732
Women's Crisis Line 1800 811 811
Men's Referral Service 1300 766 491
Lifeline (24 hour crisis line) 131 114
Relationships Australia 1300 364 277

It had also asked its members to donate towards servers, upkeep and an app, and "perhaps a television advertisement". "Freedom of speech is not a crime and we do not support anything the extremist groups say we do," they said in a statement. "This is a place for blokes to get together and be social and help each other, nothing more, nothing less." Domestic violence support group The Red Heart Campaign amassed a petition with 15,000 signatures to close the site. Organiser Sherele Moody, who received an online death threat, said aside from the website, a new invite-only Blokes Advice Facebook group had also started. "We've seen some of the sexist images of women and other disturbing misogynistic content they've been posting on the new site so we've decided to keep our petition going until it also disappears," she said. "By signing up to this new forum, Australian men will be giving legitimacy to the organisation's history of demeaning women and inciting violence against them. It's an absolute slap in the face to the one-in-three Australian women who are subjected to male physical violence and it makes a mockery of the memories of each of the 41 Aussie women who have been killed by Australian men this year. We will be doing our best to infiltrate this new site and if we find anything that demeans women or invites and encourages any type of abuse against anyone, we will contact the authorities."

<images of misogyny>

Yeah we want our ABS just like facebook. Much ado indeed.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2016 01:56

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Knorth posted:

Treasurer Scott Morrison, a former immigration minister, pointed out that the reports were only allegations. "It's important to stress that incidents reports of themselves aren't a reporting of fact, they are a reporting that an allegation has been made," he told reporters in Sydney alongside the prime minister.

For gently caress's sake

Much like the allegations that care workers were encouraging self harm that YOU made?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2016 05:24

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/is-the-census-really-no-worse-than-facebook/7711450

quote:

Is the census really 'no worse than Facebook'? POSTED TUE 9 AUG 2016, 7:07PM Updated Tue 9 Aug 2016, 7:20pm

Is the census really 'no worse than Facebook'?

When explaining why everyone should just calm down about the census, and fill out the compulsory form tonight, Small Business Minister Michael McCormack said the loss of privacy was "no worse than Facebook". "Anybody with a supermarket loyalty card, anybody who does tap-and-go, anybody who buys things online, they provide more information indeed probably to what is available to ABS staff," he said. The information you want to keep from the government, you've already shared with private corporations. Therefore there's no loss of privacy.

Is this true?

Leaving aside the detail about statistical linkage keys, let's look at how the information you voluntarily hand over compares with the info you compulsorily give away.

Government already knows where you've gone

If you have a phone. Even a 2G non-smartphone tracks your movement. Under data retention laws phone companies have to store this information for two years. "If you have smartphone and have GPS turned on that's creating a much more accurate map of your movements," said Jon Lawrence, executive officer of Electronic Frontiers Australia. "That's not necessarily directly available to government but it's available to all the app providers you've given access to it," "We're basically creating a whole tracking process everywhere we go."

If you're not paying for it, you're the product

The Facebook business model is to sell information it has collected from your profile and activity to advertisers, which then target you with products. "If you fill out a Facebook profile to the extent they're asking you that's pretty close to what the census is asking," said Jon Lawrence. Facebooks data about you is kept quite secure, said Ty Miller, cyberhacking security director of IT security firm Threat Intelligence. Big companies can afford the best kind of security, but that's not true for every start-up trying to get you to download their app. "There's so many start ups these days," he said. "Security is usually not in the primary focus of these organisations. He says signing up to newsletters and random websites is potentially a far greater breach of your privacy than the information collected by Facebook or Google. "Typically, the larger a site gets the more complex it is to secure it," he said.

So how much social media are Australians using?

According to a January report, Australians are on social media 12.5 hours a day (which was up four hours from the previous year. Four hours!). There are 15,000,000 Australians on Facebook and about the same number have Youtube profiles. Perhaps most troubling, there's still 80,000 Australian MySpace users (wtf?) For a full list of social media stats, scroll to the end.

So does the Minister have a point?

Ty Miller says the Minister has a point "to a degree". "It's absolutely ironic," he said. "If you're putting out data signing up to newsletters or things like that, then really that's the concern. "That's the most likely way your data might be breached." But he said there are also some big differences between compulsory government census and the information you voluntarily give to private companies.

Difference once: It's all about choice

Facebook is voluntary, and you can choose how much you information you share. "A lot of young people I speak to know that you don't put your real identity on Facebook, because your employer can see it," said Kate Lane, vice-chair of the Australian Privacy Foundation. "They use Facebook, but they're careful." She said the Minister's assertion that people already have their data out in the open and therefore privacy was dead was "bullshit". "The government is treating people like they're dumb," she said. "They make their decision on what they're sharing."

Senators challenge census over privacy concerns

Xenophon and Sarah Hanson-Young say they will not fill out their names in the census. Privacy advocates like to say that privacy is not about secrecy but about control - about choosing who has access to what information. Therefore it doesn't matter if you've given the information away; you can still decide who else should get the data. In making these choices, millennials are more sophisticated than their parents, according to Jon Lawrence. He referenced a recent study that found those over 60 were happy to give away their address and phone number online, but not personal secrets. Those under 25 were the exact opposite. "They were happy to give our personal issues but they said you're not getting my phone number or address," Jon said.

Difference two: Government data less secure

The ABS had 14 data breaches last year, but never a breach of census data. All the privacy and cyber-security experts Hack spoke to agreed the 2016 census data would be very valuable and therefore would attract determined data thieves. Sharing your data with companies was "low-risk compared to the honey-pot of information on 25 million Australians," said Kate Lane. Former Deputy Privacy Commissioner Anna Johnston agreed. "Anytime that data that is really valuable is held, there's risk of external hackers, whether that's organised crime or foreign governments. Ty Miller said government agencies tended to have more advanced cybersecurity than large private corporations like Google and Facebook. Jon Lawrence pointed out the US Census Bureau had been hacked last year. "The only really secure data is data that does not exist," he said.

Difference three: Facebook doesn't have weapons ... yet

There's arguably greater scope for government to mis-use the data, because it already has a monopoly on violence. It has power of arrest, a police force, and an army. Once the data is created, there's a risk it could be misused by future governments, Anna Johnston told ABC this morning. "We're only one Trumpesque leader away from the person who says, let's find out where all the Muslims live from the census data," she said.

Here's those social media stats

Facebook - 15,000,000 users
YouTube - 14,000,000 UAVs
WordPress.com - 5,650,000
Instagram - 5,000,000 Monthly Active Australian Users
Tumblr - 4,500,000
LinkedIn - 3,700,000
Twitter - 2,800,000 Active Australian Users approx
Blogspot - 2,450,000
WhatsApp - 2,400,000 Active Australian Users
TripAdvisor - 2,200,000
Snapchat - 2,000,000 approx Monthly Active Australian Users
Tinder - 1,900,000 Australian users
Yelp - 1,500,000
Flickr - 600,000
Pinterest - 300,000
Reddit - 120,000
MySpace - 80,000
Google Plus - 60,000 monthly active Australian users approx
StumbleUpon - 40,000
Foursquare/Swarm - 19,000
Digg - 15,000
Delicious - 13,000
Periscope - 10,000

A vague push for an enquiry is all I can see in the news feeds. Well apart from calls to abandon this census and try again later. The minister (Michael McCormack) has handled this appallingly badly and shown himself to have a very slender grasp on the issues in play. What clearer case for dismissal have we seen recently (Well apart from every Border Farce minister)?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2016 07:12

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Endman posted:

Whereas really we're actually the national equivalent of that spoilt kid everyone knew in school, the one who'd kick up a poo poo if things didn't go exactly their way and would bully anyone they thought was beneath them.

This is such an insightful and true assessment of the national zeitgeist that it bears repeating.

Arcanen posted:

The Nauru leaks have been picked up by the New York Times, Times magazine, and CNN. So at the very least, Americans will learn how lovely Australians are.

Here is a choice quote from the CNN piece.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/10/asia/australia-nauru-leaked-files/

"The Australian Department of Immigration and Border Protection sent CNN a statement saying that many of the reported incidents were unconfirmed allegations, and the files themselves are evidence of the "robustness" of reporting procedures. It also said that "many of the incidents are historical in nature.""

Look at that spin! The report is simultaneously untrustworthy because incidents are "unconfirmed" AND evidence of the "robustness" of the reporting process.

Even our tolerant peace loving mates from down under have had enough and they only have a fraction of the problem we do! This is further evidence we need to build a wall and man it with troops armed with assault rifles and RPGs.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/lady-tradies-new-conference-women-in-trades/7703528

quote:

New conference aims to boost number of tradeswomen by challenging sexist attitudes by Hayley Gleeson Posted about an hour ago

During World War II, thanks to the exodus of men to the frontlines, it was common to find lady folk working in skilled technical jobs like mechanics, electricians and painters in Australia. When the war ended, however, many women returned from their jobs as munitions factory workers and drivers and farmers, some begrudgingly, to traditional 'women's roles' � domestic duties, raising children, nursing � leaving men to once again dominate the workforce, particularly the trades. Today, the gender imbalance lingers, and in the past 10 years alone has gotten worse, with dramatically fewer women than men embarking on and continuing traditional trades careers in 2016. It's a problem Fi Shewring is trying to address by reminding us of the history of women's involvement in the trades. Talking about it, she says, is critical if we are to shift the stubborn, sexist attitudes towards women preventing change. "Women's history is often forgotten," Ms Shewry, the president of Supporting And Linking Tradeswomen (SALT), told ABC News. "It's not considered significant."

SALT conference honours history of women in trades

Ms Shewry, a painter and decorator by trade and a TAFE teacher, will this week launch the inaugural SALT Tradeswomen Australia Conference, for which tradeswomen, apprentices and policy makers from around the country will gather in Wollongong, New South Wales, to honour the women who worked in trades during the war. "It's also to give current tradeswomen a sense of their own history, because most of them don't know it either," Ms Shewring said. "Everybody thinks women are only just starting to work in the trades, but it's not true." SALT, which Ms Shewry founded in 2009 as a support network for tradeswomen and apprentices, is a not-for-profit organisation that aims to increase women's representation in trades by running awareness and advocacy campaigns, working with schools, and running skills workshops that teach women how to use tools. "Girls don't realise they can do this work," said Ms Shewry, who rejects the popular term 'lady tradie' because she feels it puts an unnecessary focus on gender. "Saying 'lady tradie' has a connotation of not being a full tradie ... Jobs shouldn't have a gender," she said. But that is only part of the reason why so few women pursue and persist with trade careers; many girls today grow up believing they can do anything � unless, of course, it's a male-dominated trade occupation.

Why don't women pursue trades careers?

Indeed, a 2015 report by Quay Connection, commissioned by the NSW Skills Board, found that women make up less than 10 per cent of total applicants for traditional trade apprenticeships, while few employers consider taking on female apprentices. The report cited many reasons for this, including persistent stereotypes that trades work is men's work, low visibility of female role models in trades industries, and low awareness among young women of career opportunities for women in trades. Employer attitudes and workplace cultures also act as significant barriers, with almost half of employers surveyed for the report indicating they didn't think women were physically capable of doing the job, while 42 per cent believed women would require more support in training. Significantly, almost every female apprentice who took part in focus group surveys said they had experienced bullying, discrimination or harassment on the job, though many were reluctant to report it out of fear of retribution. "There is a huge undertone about sex, lots of sexual tension ... but you can't care about it," said one apprentice. "If you complain, you get on their wrong side. The harassment just gets pushed under the carpet."

The number of women in trades is tanking

A new report out last week by the Workplace Gender Equality Agency shows that the proportion of women working in Construction, Australia's most male-dominated industry, has fallen from 14.8 per cent in 1995 to 12 per cent in 2015. Meanwhile, the proportion of women Labourers (which includes cleaners, factory process workers and food preparers) dropped from 36.9 per cent in 1995 to 33.6 per cent in 2015, and the proportion of women Machinery Operators and Drivers also shrank from 14.1 per cent in 1995 to just 9.2 per cent in 2015. And yet numerous government and non-government strategies have sought to boost women's representation and retention in trades. In 2012 the New South Wales government launched its Women in Trades initiative to "increase the number of women working in male-dominated trades". It nurtures multiple partnerships with industry, local councils and community groups and funds several projects designed to recruit and support tradeswomen, including one with SALT. However, four years on, the dwindling proportion of women in many trades suggests such strategies are not particularly effective.

Trying, but not hard enough

Women NSW Director Natasha de Silva conceded that more can and should be done to encourage women into trade occupations. "While women's share of the workforce in many technical and professional occupations has increased over time, the number of women working in trade occupations has been decreasing," Ms de Silva told ABC News. "The business case for a diverse workforce is well established, however, companies' verbal commitment to increasing the number of female employees is not sufficient." Workplace Gender Equality Agency Director Libby Lyons said: "Strategies that encourage women and girls into trades or other male-dominated fields need to be backed up by strategies to keep them. This means offering inclusive workplaces with respectful cultures, opportunities to work flexibly as well as support women to return to work after having children."

WGEA report doesn't tell the whole story

But Ms Shewry argued the WGEA report was misleading because it did not reflect the progress that has been made to improve women's representation in the trades since 1995. "There have been significant changes since [SALT] began in 2009," Ms Shewry said. As for all the women attending the SALT conference this week? "I hope they gain an understanding of how [women in trades] is not new, [that] this has been done before," she said. "[We need] a shift in society thinking to something that isn't so tempered with unconscious bias ... that treats women with respect."

Maybe if NTATA hadn't sleazed up to every young woman on every work site ever we wouldn't be here.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 01:20

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Endman posted:

I hope Dutton falls face first into a whipper-snipper.

Are you an Amethyst parachute account?

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 02:23

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Redcordial posted:

Needs more detail. How will the potato be sliced up? Will he be made into mash, or some fancy potato bake?

I saw it as more of a Freudian slip from a poster actually trying to keep it on the QT.

-/-

Well looks like bloody revolution is the only way forward which brings me back to the opinion I held when I was an angry teen who thought that was the answer for everything. Is this progress?

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 02:50

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Solemn Sloth posted:

I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those hogtied and ball gagged kids

ftfy

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 03:26

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Solemn Sloth posted:

Andrew Bolt

He's white so he's worth ten.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 04:05

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

aejix posted:

Filing tonight's Clarke and Dawe in the top 10 of all time

This one? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/clarke-and-dawe:-mixed-results-and-scott%27s-help/7720900

Also looks like there will be some consequences:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/census-malcolm-turnbull-slams-abs-over-failure/7718584

quote:

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has unloaded on the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) over its handling of the botched census, but says possible sackings will not come until after a full investigation.

Key points:

The site has gone back online, more than two days after it was disabled
"This has been a failure of the ABS," the PM says
Turnbull's special cyber security advisor says more attacks expected
The census is now back online, almost two days after it was shut down following a denial of service cyber attack.

Earlier, Mr Turnbull fronted press gallery reporters in Canberra, expressing his unhappiness over events which he said had "inconvenienced millions of Australians" after the ABS shut down the census website on census night in response to what it called a series of denial of service cyber attacks. The census collection process was paralysed for days, leading the Labor Party to describe it as one of the biggest shambles in the history of the Australian government. "Which heads roll, where and when, will be determined once the review is complete," Mr Turbull said. "I made it very, very clear that what we needed to do was be absolutely straight and frank with the Australian people. This has been a failure of the ABS."

The head of the Australian Bureau of Statistics, David Kalisch, delivered another mea culpa, in the form of a statement to reporters in Canberra this afternoon. "I would again apologise for the inconvenience suffered by many Australians," he said. He said the website was only put back online after a written assurance from the Australian Signals Directorate that the system was safe and secure. He did not take any questions from reporters.<snip>

OK so please explain to me how with key decisions being taken by 'the government' a rotating cast of worthless ministers and ongoing cuts to an often leaderless ABS how this is the ABS's fault? And as far as consequences for the minister go:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-11/census-minister-nominated-for-ice-bucket-challenge-by-joyce/7720822

quote:

Census: Barnaby Joyce revives ice bucket challenge, nominates Michael McCormack By political reporter Anna Henderson Updated about 3 hours ago

Barnaby Joyce has sought to pour cold water on the census crisis facing the Government � by nominating the responsible minister for the ice bucket challenge. The challenge went viral in 2014, with millions of people the world over filming themselves tipping ice water over their heads to raise funds for motor neurone disease research. Mr Joyce revived the tradition on a wintery day in his electorate, after being nominated by a constituent. He was then pressed by a reporter to nominate others who should participate. Mr Joyce suggested a handful of colleagues, including minister Michael McCormack. "I think with Michael's work with the census this gives another degree of difficulty for him," he said. Mr McCormack has faced national outcry over the Government's handling of the national online survey, after it was shut down at a crucial point on the designated census night, following a cyber attack. His own parliamentary website was down for maintenance for a number of hours yesterday, after it appeared he was subjected to a personal hack, with a hyperlink entitled "gay sex" appearing on its homepage.

Thanks Barnyardaby you're a barrel, or is that a bucket.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2016 10:29

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Was going to post the indigenous suicide issue because I'm such a fun guy.

According to Ray Hadley the Census site is down again but even if that's not true.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-12/census-2016-site-up-and-running-in-australia/7722738

quote:

Census 2016: Site back online, but only for those using Australian servers AM By Will Ockenden Posted about 2 hours ago

The census website is back up and running, but only for people using Australian-based servers as the Government attempts to ward off repeated cyber attacks.

Key points:

ABS switched off the site on census night due to hackers
In the eight hours after the system went back online 341,626 people sent in their forms
Geoblocked appears to have blocked DNS servers hosted overseas
A series of denial of service (DOS) attacks on the site on census night prompted the Bureau of Statistics to switch off the system around 7:30pm on August 9 for fear of hackers.

After going live yesterday afternoon, the website had been accepting forms from across the country, though at a much reduced rate from census night. In the eight hours after the system went back online yesterday, 341,626 people sent in their digital forms. That is about 11 per second � well below the claimed capacity of 260 per second. It may be that people are worried, but it may also be that after all the downtime they simply did not know that the site was again open for business. A geoblock, or system used to limit internet access based on a user's location, on the census website is also causing issues for some users, IT consultant Justin Warren said. "[The site] pretty much all lives in one place behind a wall," he said. "What they have seemed to have done is they have put some holes in the wall to allow you to come in if you're from Australia, and you're not from Australia you can't come in."

Metadata retention dodgers among those affected

Mr Warren said the geoblock "had some unintended consequences unfortunately". He said one of the issues people seem to be having was with Virtual Private Networks (VPNs). The other issue has been with the Domain Name System (DNS) � the part of the internet that translates the https://www. domain name to an IP address, so the computer can connect to the web server. But because the ABS has geoblocked international traffic, they also appear to have blocked DNS servers hosted overseas. "The traffic that goes over there can't find the DNS for the census site, as far as your computer is concerned the census site doesn't exist," Mr Warren said.

Mr Warren said some people had changed to overseas DNS to avoid metadata retention logging, and would likely be affected by the ABS's decision. "It definitely looks like a blunt instrument, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of precision going on," he said. As for fixing that problem, other technology experts AM spoke to said the fix would be cheap, simple and easy. But the ABS said it had introduced protective security measures that would affect some users. It said that it was encouraging people who were having problems to seek help on its website, or if possible, try another device.

It is looking more and more like the DoS 'attack' was actually just Australians trying to do their civic duty. The issue of the ABS and metadat along with personal detail logging would mean I'd never go near the ABS' website without a VPN. Also if only ~ 500 000 can do it a day that will mean it will take ~ 20 days for everyone to lodge :psyboom:

twenty days - That's after the olympics are over and then some.

D I S A S T E R

Also there have been a bunch of good jokes etc so far this month so, despite the origins and the rating, this is one of the more enjoyable Aus Pols for a while (poo poo state of the country not withstanding).

# ¿ Aug 12, 2016 02:50

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

EvilElmo posted:

Correct, I and many other people commented that this would be the death of minor parties. The Greens had effectively pulled up the ladder behind them. As it turns out, it's had the opposite effect. The Green vote flatlined and hasn't gained any ground in the Senate (losing a senator in the process). People have instead decided to put their vote towards fringe parties where before they would have voted #1 for a major and we would have got a balanced, normal, workable Senate. This Senate will be difficult for anyone to work through and legislation does need to be passed, but at what cost? Do we want a budget through in return for a Senate inquiry into Islam?

Can I live in this Australia? It has to be better than the real one.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2016 10:35

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Seeing as we have become AusPol IMBD the katering show 2nd season is now up on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCCGc8JKl5EvE8IjZ_qprNcQ

Also Suicide Squad or Fury Road?

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 03:19

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

I'm just trying to make up my mind which one to see.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 04:08

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Lizard Combatant posted:

I swear you've already subjected us to an unfavorable review of Fury Road, if this is just a long set up to it being "forgettable" you can take that poo poo elsewhere thanks.

Isn't this the thread for pathetic low effort trolling? My bad I guess.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 04:25

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Hinch should support it because for him it's pretty much core business.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2016 07:47

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Jumpingmanjim posted:

19 days till the return of everyone's favourite Democrats supporter.

And I'll be nailing my thighs to my chair for that.

Crocodile tears and political opportunism? It's almost enough to win the ALP some support.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/labor-calls-for-senate-inquiry-into-nauru/7733966

quote:

Labor calls for Senate inquiry into Nauru abuse allegations Monday 15 August 2016 7:37AM (view full episode)

Pressure is building on the Turnbull Government over the mistreatment of asylum seekers on Nauru. The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is calling for a thorough investigation into more than 2,000 leaked incident reports, which include allegations of violence, sexual assault, self harm and degrading living conditions. On the weekend, Opposition leader Bill Shorten urged Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to accompany him on a 'fact finding mission' to Nauru, and announced Labor will push for a Senate inquiry into the detention centre when Parliament resumes later this month. Shayne Neumann, Shadow Minister for Immigration, joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

This is Australian news because we will be dragged into what would have to be the stupidest reason for a conflictr since WW1.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/us-china-war-could-erupt-ex-obama-adviser-says/7733996

quote:

Prolonged, destructive' United States, China war possible, ex-Obama intelligence adviser says By political reporter Eliza Borrello Posted 10 minutes ago

United States President Barack Obama's former chief intelligence adviser has warned a war between the US and China would be long, destructive and could erupt if regional disputes already underway overheat. David Gompert sent the warning to policy makers in a Rand Corporation report commissioned by the US Army. "War between the United States and China could be so ruinous for both countries, for East Asia, and for the world that it might seem unthinkable," Mr Gompert wrote.
"Yet it is not: China and the United States are at loggerheads over several regional disputes that could lead to military confrontation or even violence between them. If an incident occurred or a crisis overheated, both have an incentive to strike enemy forces before being struck by them. "And if hostilities erupted, both have ample forces, technology, industrial might, and personnel to fight across vast expanses of land, sea, air, space, and cyberspace."

He said if such a war broke out today, China's losses would greatly exceed that of the US. But he said it was possible by 2025 China's economy may have overtaken America's and the gap could be much smaller. "Even then, however, China could not be confident of gaining military advantage, which suggests the possibility of a prolonged and destructive, yet inconclusive, war," Mr Gompert said. US 'should prepare for long, fierce war' (No muppet. the US should pull back from the brink and attempt to live in peace for ten minutes). Mr Gompert said the US should make sensible preparations to wage a "long and fierce" war with China but argued it must also develop plans to limit the scope, intensity and duration of such a conflict.

His report came ahead of November's US presidential election, in which one of the candidates, Donald Trump, has refused to rule out the possibility of conflict. "I would use trade to negotiate. Would I go to war? Look, let me just tell you. There's a question I wouldn't want to answer," Mr Trump said in a New York Times interview in March. "Because I don't want to say I won't or I will or � do you understand that. That's the problem with our country. A politician would say: 'Oh I would never go to war' or they'd say: 'Oh I would go to war.' "I don't want to say what I'd do because, again, we need unpredictability." Australian National University defence expert Paul Dibb said: "[If Mr Trump wins the election] sure as hell � we'd have the most unpredictable America the world has ever seen." "It is very difficult to say things that are balanced and objective about President Trump. "It raises whole questions about the ANZUS (Australia, New Zealand and United States Security Treaty) alliance."

Are we really prepared to go to war over some furious groin stroking in the South China Sea? Does no one actually remember what remembrance day is all the gently caress about? Is the US so wedded to the industrial military complex that no sacrifice is too large too sate the need for more martial supplies? Oh and let's throw Donald 'Duck' Trump into the mix 'cause that'll make things better!

# ¿ Aug 15, 2016 01:18

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

starkebn posted:

I can only imagine if war broke out between the US and China that China's first move would be an immediate and devastating strike on Australia to reduce the chance of the US using it as a launching pad in SEAsia. Not good for us obviously.

I am not a military person in any way.

The Philippines are much more of a direct threat but no sane person (Outside of the pentagon and other similar asylums) has seriously considered the implication of what would amount to stupidity and insanity both playing tag with each other.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2016 01:46

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

ewe2 posted:

Are you suggesting that the Liberal party are the La Ni�a infesting the body politic?

Well there were bound to be few pedophiles.

Xerxes17 posted:

I'm going to disagree here because in this case it really is China acting like a shithead to all it's regional neighbors. The only thing stopping them from going whole-hog against poor nations like the Philippines and straight up annexing the sea that is hundreds of kilometers away from Chinese coast and only a dozen from the Philippines is Uncle Sam standing in the background frowning at them. Belligerence should, and must, be countered where it appears.

Allow me to ask. Why do you think the first world war was really stupid? That was what I used as my comparison. I didn't just pluck it out of my arse for no reason. While you're pondering that.

This is not a case of all in and everyone not for me is agin' me. I can criticise the US for a ridiculously ham fisted piece of rhetoric which is reasonably clearly aimed at a domestic audience in an election year without having to also endorse China's actions in the South China Sea. There are an almost infinite number of steps that should be taken that fall short of military action (of any kind). So while you apparently disagree with me I am in agreement with your statement 'Belligerence should, and must, be countered where it appears.' Even when it is from the mouth of the US president. Imagine, if you will,words of that sort being applied to North Korea. What about Israel? This sort of belligerent talk never leads to good outcomes. The last time a US president used similar language (Axis of Evil) North Korea started production of nuclear weapons.

This will do nothing but raise the stakes with the Chinese hawks. Any difficulties that the central committee might have had with military procurement are now overcome. This is what starts arms races and eventually someone decides they have to make the first move.

-/-

I don't know where to start today but the front page of the SMH was like printed click bait.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/nick-foulkes/7746766

quote:

Party for Freedom's Nick Folkes on storming Gosford Anglican Church Tuesday 16 August 2016 6:16AM (view full episode)

On Sunday, a far right anti-Islam group known as the Party For Freedom took its fight against Muslim immigration right to the very heart of Australian Christianity, storming the Sunday service of the Gosford Anglican Church. Dressed in mock Muslim garb, about a dozen members of the group disrupted a sermon being delivered by Father Rod Bower, who has long championed the cause of asylum seekers and multiculturalism. The Anglican minister described the incident as a 'racist stunt' which traumatised many in his congregation. The anti-Islam party says it draws its inspiration from One Nation, and uses a photo of Pauline Hanson on its Facebook page. But One Nation has distanced itself from the provocative stunt, and says it has nothing to do with the Party for Freedom. - Nick Folkes, Party For Freedom chairman, joins Fran Kelly on RN Breakfast.

Listen to distilled stupidity (Includes traces of Fran Kelly's stupidity too). I can't help but speculate on what would have happened if the protesters had actually been brown. I expect we would have seen arrests and anti terror raids. So why aren't the police pursuing the perpetrators?

None the less I heartily endorse these muppets (and Pauline Hanson's) right to free speech. Nothing says what buffoons they are more eloquently than themselves.

-/-

Saudi coalition now?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/saudi-airstrike-on-msf-hospital-in-yemen/7746426

quote:

At least 11 killed, more than dozen injured in Saudi airstrike on MSF hospital in Yemen By Middle East correspondent Sophie McNeill, wires Updated about an hour ago

A Medicins Sans Frontieres (MSF) hospital has been hit by a Saudi coalition airstrike in the province of Hajjah in the north of Yemen, the medical aid organisation says.

Key points:

All remaining patients and staff have been evacuated from hospital in Abs district
MSF says it has "repeatedly shared location & GPS coordinates of Abs hospital" with all parties of Yemen conflict
Incident is fourth time an MSF facility has been hit in Yemen in the past year
At least 11 people were killed in the attack, including one MSF staff member, with 19 people seriously injured, MSF general manager Paul McPhun told ABC News 24.

"We've shared the GPS coordinates with all parties to the conflict including the Saudi-led coalition," Mr McPhun said. "This is an aerial attack so it seems very clear that was carried out by the Saudi-led coalition." In a statement on Twitter, MSF said it asked "all parties & particularly the Saudi-led coalition responsible for the attack to guarantee that such attacks do not happen again". The organisation also said all remaining patients and staff had been evacuated from the hospital in the Abs district. Mr McPhun said the Saudi-led coalition would have been aware "without doubt" of what the MSF facility was. "This is a well known medical facility," he said. "It's carried out over 4,600 treatments of patients in this region and it's incredibly strategic location. It undertakes surgery, maternity care, so women in childbirth and then it looks after children, so children with critical needs and many of these are victims of violence, victims of the conflict that's been escalating in the last couple of weeks. So there's absolutely no doubt it's well known what this hospital is doing."

Fourth time MSF facility hit in past year

Earlier a witness at the scene of the attack told the Reuters news agency that the injured could not be immediately evacuated because warplanes continued to fly over the area and first responders feared more bombings. The incident was the fourth time that an MSF facility has been hit in Yemen in the past year. Amnesty International said the incident was an "atrocious attack that could amount to a war crime. Deliberately targeting medical facilities is a serious violation of international humanitarian law which would amount to a war crime," said Magdalena Mughrabi, Amnesty International's deputy director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme. "The circumstances of this attack must be thoroughly and independently investigated."

A spokesman for the Saudi-led coalition did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the reported attack.

Since peace talks collapsed nine days ago, the Saudi-led coalition has conducted hundreds of air raids in the Yemeni capital Sanaa and all over northern Yemen, killing at least 60 civilians. On Saturday, the UN confirmed that Saudi coalition aircraft bombed a school in Hayden in northern Saada governorate in Yemen killing 10 children and injuring more than 20. The coalition said the bombing had targeted a training facility run by Yemen's dominant Houthi movement but MSF and the UN Children's agency UNICEF confirmed it was a school.

Attacks on hospitals increasing

In January, the MSF-supported Shiara hospital in Razeh, northern Yemen, was hit by a projectile, killing six and injuring seven. In December last year, the MSF-tented clinic in Houban, Taiz governorate, was bombed by the Saudi-led coalition, killing one person and injuring eight others. The MSF facility in Haydan, Saada governorate, was also bombed in October last year. It is the only remaining operational facility in the district, covering a population of nearly 20,000 people. The UN has accused the Saudi-led coalition of deliberately targeting civilians and civilian structures in Yemen since they began their air campaign in the country last March in an attempt to restore President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi to power and roll back gains by the Iran-allied Houthis who deposed him. About 6,500 people have been killed in fighting so far, more than half of them civilians.

Oh those wicked Saudi's flying around in their wicked US made planes firing their wicked US made munitions. If only there was some way to stop them! Won't someone please think of the arms contractors!

News just in!!! FTAs are poo poo and we should stop signing them.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/verrender-fta-experience-backs-up-morrisons-ausgrid-decision/7734704

quote:

Australia's FTA experience backs up Treasurer's Ausgrid decision ANALYSIS By Ian Verrender Updated yesterday at 3:48pm

It was a marvellous occasion: cheesy smiles at photo ops, the omnipotent presence of the since-departed trade minister Andrew Robb at signing ceremonies and the promises of endless bounty. When the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement finally was inked in mid-June last year, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade described it thus: "China is Australia's largest export for both goods and services, accounting for nearly a third of total exports, and a growing source of foreign investment." Maybe not any longer. The brakes suddenly have been slammed on that foreign investment growth after federal Treasurer Scott Morrison's slap-down of Beijing over the purchase of NSW power utility Ausgrid last week. It was a decision that negated almost everything the so-called free trade deal was meant to represent and highlighted just how worthless these deals really are.

It's not that the Treasurer made the wrong decision.

On the contrary, in an interview last Friday with Michael Brissenden on AM, he pointed to the extensive existing ownership of vital Australian electricity infrastructure by Chinese interests, particularly the Government-owned State Grid and Hong Kong-based CK Holdings, controlled by Asia's second richest man, Li Ka Shing. It's one thing for Australian federal and state governments to own monopoly utilities. It's quite another to allow a non-democratic government � or private interests associated with it � to amalgamate and bundle up all that infrastructure. Remember, Beijing and Li Ka Shing were not creating anything here with their proposed investment. They were merely buying existing infrastructure. Mr Morrison's critics argued his decision was inconsistent, given State Grid and CK Holdings already have substantial investments in the Australian power sector. That misses the point. In effect, the Treasurer simply decided both parties already owned enough.

But in so doing, he's inadvertently driven a truck through the pretence surrounding the Government's federal election spin that it somehow achieved significant milestones in the free trade agreements with China, South Korea and Japan. Last year, the now-retired Andrew Robb � who incidentally has taken up with investment bank Moelis and Co to push deals through with China � launched into a tirade whenever there was even a hint of scepticism about his FTA frenzy. Anyone who questioned the wisdom, or effectiveness, of the drive was branded "anti-trade". Foreign Minister Julie Bishop attacked independent Senator Nick Xenophon with the same argument during the election while the Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull endlessly hailed the agreements as an economic cure-all.

Free trade, or preferential trade deals?

There's just one problem. Free trade agreements don't work.

That's because they have precious little to do with trade and almost nothing to do with free trade. They largely are political, diplomatic or defence constructs. And the benefits, if they exist at all, are largely illusory. Don't take my word for it. Have a look at the numerous reports and studies from the Federal Government's own Productivity Commission. It prefers to call them what they truly are: preferential trade deals. And it argues that they divert and distort trade, often to our detriment. Rather than free-up commerce, they add to inefficiency and increase complexity. Little wonder then that they are generally shunned by businesses. And as the commission repeatedly argues, the best way to secure the benefits of free trade is to reduce or eliminate your own protection policies. We've largely done that. The best, or perhaps worst, example was the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement signed more than a decade ago. According to a study by the Australian National University's Crawford School, the much vaunted deal cost Australia around $US53 billion in 2012, with the losses accelerating each year from 2005 when the deal was signed. You won't hear that from anyone in Canberra though. In fact, the US-Australia deal � which dealt a serious blow to our ability to negotiate deals for the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme � is still hailed as a success around the corridors of power. It hasn't always been that way. Back in 1957 when Robert Menzies signed a historic deal with Japan's Kishi Nobusuke, Australia, like many developed nations, had ensconced itself behind a comfortable trade wall of tariffs, quotas and subsidies. Reducing those barriers led to huge material gains as trade between the two nations ballooned. Those trade walls are largely gone, meaning little is to be gained from preferential trade deals. In fact, as the US FTA demonstrated, much can be lost. Perhaps that's why the Federal Government refused to engage the Productivity Commission to file a report on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a deal that even America � which proposed it in the first place � is likely to junk. Meanwhile, a study commissioned by the Federal Government into the three most recent deals, with China, Japan and South Korea, found they were likely to have a negative impact on Australian trade, as Fairfax's Peter Martin noted last month.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade study found the deals collectively will boost exports by 0.5 to 1.5 per cent while boosting imports by 2.5 per cent. Rather than being export deals that will create jobs and growth, they are import deals that potentially will have harmful effects. Little wonder the Treasurer had no qualms calling a decision on Ausgrid.

This is getting to be too depressing and relentless.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2016 02:29

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

It's only fun to be an acceleration if you can pretend there isn't a wall or a cliff directly in your path.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2016 10:20

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

OK resident hawks. What about the Crimea? Ukraine? Tibet? Why aren't we actively pursuing military options in each of those cases? If we really want the Chinese to sit up and take notice we should slam some import restrictions on them. Now that also would need to be done with some care because people who know recent history will recall that this was a significant factor in Japan taking preemptive action against the US. The Chinese and the Vietnamese have been at each other for centuries. Remember this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War. The current claims and small actions in the South China Sea are reprehensible but any response has to be carefully planned and of a proximate level. It would additionally be nice if it was carefully tuned to achieve results rather than escalate matters. Unless you are an accelerationist, no level of escalation (or the build up of forces and materials) is a worthwhile outcome. As ever it won't be Rand McNaly and Serco that do the suffering and dying.

And before we get all high and mighty about China anyone remember the Timor Gap? http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2014/11/25/Australia-East-Timor-and-the-Timor-Gap.aspx The map doesn't look quite as extreme but we might like to think hard before playing the 'You are a regional bully' card too fervently. Speaking of local matters what of West Papua? and West Timor? Aren't these also matters of regional belligerence that need to be urgently addressed? :jerkbag:

Yeah get back to me on those.

-/-

Now before completely leaving the subject of military madness and diplomacy ask yourself why, when it is clearly destroying segments of both the US and the Australian economy, this mania for free trade continues? It is 100% untruthful (In the sense that it has been demonstrated to not work) ideaology. And yet today we have:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-17/turnbull-will-challenge-opposition-on-budget-cuts/7749868

quote:

Malcolm Turnbull challenges Labor to back $6.5 billion budget cuts By political reporter Francis Keany Updated about 2 hours ago

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is set to use his first keynote speech since the election to challenge the Federal Opposition to support more than $6.5 billion in budget savings when Parliament resumes. Mr Turnbull will today promise to "reach across the aisle", and vow to "work constructively" with Labor and the crossbenchers to get budget cuts through the Senate. An omnibus bill will be introduced once Parliament resumes on August 30, containing a number of budget proposals the Coalition believes Labor indicated it would support during the federal election campaign. "We are ready to reach across the aisle. But Labor must be prepared to bring an open mind and some fiscal rationality to any discussions, as well as a commitment to support spending reductions they have already said they will back," Mr Turnbull will say. "The budget bottom line that Labor outlined during the campaign relied on over $6 billion in Coalition savings that they have not reversed, including $3 billion in measures that they previously opposed. "The time for posturing is over. The reform challenges for Australia are significant."

PM to warn protectionism could 'destabilise' growth

Extracts of Mr Turnbull's speech, provided by his office, show he will also use the address at the Committee for Economic Development of Australia conference in Melbourne to warn that protectionism is "starting to gain a foothold". The Prime Minister will caution against stoking anger with those who feel they have missed out from the benefits of globalisation and economic growth (Well they aren't alone Malform, the list of globalisation beneficiaries gets smaller by the day and economist have had to invest in electron microscopes to find signs of growth MUPPET). "Political divisions in advanced economies � particularly where there is high unemployment or a high risk of unemployment � are feeding on a sense of disenfranchisement among many people who feel the rapid economic changes of our time have left them behind," he will say. "Political responses to this mood of disaffection can have the potential to destabilise global growth, perhaps even reversing some of the spectacular gains we have made over recent decades through open markets and free trade." (The peasants are revolting! Don't they know this is for my own good?)

Mr Turnbull will also pledge that business tax cuts remain high on the Government's agenda going into the new Parliament, as well as reintroducing the Australian Building and Construction Commission.(Jesus loving wept) Treasurer Scott Morrison earlier this month said Labor indicated its support for $6.5 billion worth of measures, after the Opposition included them in its pre-election costings. It is unclear how many of those budget cuts will end up being included in the Coalition's proposed bill when it is introduced to Parliament.

It's almost like they realise their policies are hurting people. Stop cutting poo poo you douche bags. It doesn't work. It fucks the economy. Restructure taxation to redistribute wealth. Perhaps a return to the tax rates of the fifties? And for fucks sake stop with the trickle down two! This time it works! bull poo poo. Oh gently caress it I'm getting my rude agricultural implements and coming to Canberra for a bit of uppity peasant action. After all, you have to draw the line somewhere and this is the only language these people understand.

Act now or become one of the under class. You know like our indigenous cousins.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-16/indigenous-death-in-custody-the-aboriginal-legal-service-says/7748554

quote:

NSW records first Indigenous death in police cell since 2000, Aboriginal Legal Service says By state political reporter Sarah Gerathy Updated yesterday at 5:13pm

New South Wales has suffered its first Indigenous death in a police cell in 16 years, the Aboriginal Legal Service says. The ABC reported on the death of Rebecca Maher, 36, at the Maitland Police Station on July 19, but police did not reveal at the time that she was Aboriginal. Police said she was found dead in a cell less than six hours after she was arrested walking along a road in Cessnock while appearing intoxicated. The Aboriginal Legal Service's chief executive, Gary Oliver, has accused police of failing to follow proper protocols, which dictate officers must alert the Custody Notification Service (CNS) whenever an Indigenous person is arrested. "There wasn't any notification that Ms Maher was being held by police," Mr Oliver said. "We're very concerned that there's been a procedural failure this time. If the CNS had been used by police when they detained Ms Maher, there may have been a different outcome."

He also criticised police for not notifying the Aboriginal Legal Service of Ms Maher's death until August 12. The ABC has sought comment from NSW Police about whether officers were aware Ms Maher was Aboriginal, and why they did not alert the custody notification service of her arrest. "A critical incident investigation is underway with all information to be provided to the coroner. It would be inappropriate to comment further," a police spokesperson said. Mr Oliver said the custody notification service ensured Aboriginal people who were arrested have access to a lawyer and a health check. "Even if a person is seen to be intoxicated, the police still ring us and let us know they've got a person in custody, and NSW Police ensure that person in custody is made safe," he said. Mr Oliver said it was the first Indigenous death in a police cell since the notification service was introduced in 2000. Police launched a critical incident investigation immediately following the woman's death, which will also be examined by a coronial inquest. The custody notification service was one of the key recommendations of the 1991 Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. The notification service was recently thrown a lifeline after a funding stoush between the Federal and State governments.

Yeah go on cut those services more Turdball! Go hard!

So we know the police involved disobeyed their own procedures. What else did they do to provoke this woman's death? I really hope the coroner takes this one up with vigilance because I smell pig flavoured fishy.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2016 01:57

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 09:28

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

open24hours posted:

The massive increases in GDP? Australia has done very well out of free trade, blaming the problems that occurred simultaneously on free trade is not much different from blaming them on immigrants or the end of the White Australia policy. Increases in inequality aren't caused by trade policy and jacking up tariffs wouldn't reduce inequality.

[edit: I'm talking about free trade as a concept here, which we should be pursuing unilaterally instead of making stupid complicated deals. Those deals are what really appeal to the neoliberals because they allow for further weakening of state power and corresponding increases in corporate power.]

If you aren't talking about actual free trade as performed by the Australian economy and the subject of your 'Massive increase in GDP' claim then what the gently caress are you talking about? Here let me try and make it simple for you.

Free trade as it is actually implement is a farce and Australia has done very badly out of it. I could have sworn I made an effort post about this not long ago.

Cartoon posted:

News just in!!! FTAs are poo poo and we should stop signing them.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-15/verrender-fta-experience-backs-up-morrisons-ausgrid-decision/7734704

This is getting to be too depressing and relentless.

If you care about the issue pay special attention to: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-elections-other-big-lie-the-coalition-hasnt-delivered-export-agreements-20160705-gpzcx3.html

Now you can attempt the spirited back pedal about these aren't actually free trade deals (a point made in both the articles linked) but that makes your original claim look pretty loving incoherent (and I use the word advisedly). The only way your 'ideal' free trade agreements would work (in theory) is if there was an even playing field inside the linked trading nations. As it stands Australia sacrificed it's entire manufacturing sector on the altar of free trade when most of our trading partners subsidise their's massively. Removing tarrifs on ALL US imports while they maintained most of theirs on our exports and continue to massively subsidise their agricultural sector. et loving cetera.

Oh oh free trade would work if it wasn't for that pesky reality that we find ourselves in. gently caress all the way off.

In response to the original question open markets are equally a fantasy and real world fallacy. Economist are the most deluded man children of the whole gaggle and spout rubbish non stop once prompted.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2016 06:37

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol August: The Greens Echo Chamber

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