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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Jones was accused of raping a little girl, but in his defense, his friend and he himself said the girl was 12 and not 9 years old (or, speculatively, possibly 14 and looking young for her age?) and totally asking for it. Besides, he paid the girl money and could tell the girl was not a virgin so she's a whore. So not a pedophile, no siree.

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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V. Illych L. posted:

so how did one beat a tercio/pike square/wha'evz back in the day

Squares are just asking for artillery to pound on them.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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VanSandman posted:

I have a question about naval warfare. Submarines are well and truly hosed once the enemy starts using active sonar, right? Why don't people use active sonar at all times then?

The range at which active sonar can detect a ship is far shorter than that at which a passive detector can detect a ship using active sonar. The active sonar user is listening to echos whereas the passive array is listening to the ship directly, so the signal has to travel twice the distance.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Nebakenezzer posted:

I don't have anywhere else to say this but here goes:

The Latin word for "restorer" is "Redditor"

:tinfoil:

Explains all the fascists.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Did people do historical re-enactment in pre-modern times?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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HEY GAL posted:

if you count people dressing up like people from arthurian legend or romans (etc) during tournaments, yes

Wait, really? Isn't that rather tacky?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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A T34-152 would be a sight to behold.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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I found a rare archive photograph!


EDIT: Seems like the Egyptians were mad enough to make a T34-122 though.

http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/tim_roberts/t-34_122_egypt/

Fangz fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Sep 5, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Rodrigo Diaz posted:

You can't do this in the ancient period with iron or steel weapons, game of thrones lied to you. With bronze age weapons there is no suggestion of standardization afaik.

Wait, what's the issue there? Too much carbon content?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Did any of the guys you study, Hegel, ever consider launching a battle at night?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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MikeCrotch posted:

Plus you would have a bunch of captains having nervous breakdowns trying to form perfect squares and read their root tables in the dark

Well, in my mind that's kinda the idea. gently caress up those neat and tidy tercios by turning it into a confused brawl in the dark.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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You also need to figure out how to make your tanks and guns eat people.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Pellisworth posted:

I have a question probably for HEY GAL and Rodrigo Diaz-- why was it pikes and matchlock muskets rather than crossbows? Are guns in the period simply much more powerful than crossbows?

Guns are a lot cheaper.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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aldantefax posted:

Medieval/ancient history:

Has there ever been a time in history where close combat infantry with melee weapons (I'm thinking swords and other weapons of the sort) were the primary factor in deciding victory as opposed to cavalry, pikemen, archers/artillery/riflemen)? I'm referring to dudes getting in the mix with their arming swords and maces and what not making a sizeable difference. I always considered this type of infantry to be more of a screen to prevent other less armored or mobile targets from getting overrun immediately or to buy time to set up a charge, but I'd like to read about the exceptions.

Rome.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-09-06-this-is-what-really-happens-when-swords-hit-armour

Nooooooo

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Also the proper term is fuller.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Opposing fullers? Wouldn't that cause the blade to twist easily?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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'Good quality plate' seems to be something that gets thrown around a lot. But would I be right in suspecting that it's a bit misleading as phrasing, because while you can theoretically design plate thick enough to defeat all sorts of things, realistically availability and quality of plate is very variable?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Siivola posted:

Yes, but also sorta no, I think. Making a single-piece breastplate is tricky business because you first need a big piece of tough steel, and then you need to shape and harden it just right. But on the other hand, making armour was a big industry, and I'd imagine there were a lot of good smiths to go around if you had the money to pay.

Well, I think this is a pretty good article that seems to backs up what I mean.

http://www.oakeshott.org/metal.html

There's a bit where it mentions price differentials between high quality fitted armour and off the shelf stuff on the level of two orders of magnitude or more, which I think speaks to some huge quality variability. Also later on

quote:

The results of heat treating ran the full spectrum of achievable results. Many munitions armors were iron or unhardened steel, while even some of the early examples of plate armor pieces were achieving 75-430 VPH (less than 6-44 Rc). The Pembridge helm (bef. 1375) testing at 430 VPH on the surface and the Küssnach Coat of Plates(c. 1352) Item No. LM 13367 in the Swiss National Museum, Zürich averaging 390 VPH (about 40 Rc). The Braybrook Helm (bef. 1405)Royal Armories No. AL.30 with less than .1% carbon and left without heat treating, averages 108 VPH.2

Later in the 15th and 16th C. armorers achieved more consistent results, such as the Helmshmied family of armorers in Augsburg who between c.1480 and 1551 averaged 240-441 VPH (20.3-44 Rc) on 17 items of their work sampled.4 Lorenz Helmschmied created one of the most consistent and well hardened pieces yet tested in an Armet (c. 1492), No. 66 Churburg which averaged 525 VPH (abt. 50 Rc).3

Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Sep 12, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Ensign Expendable posted:

My guys are impeccable at pointing out the difference between tanks, SPGs, and armoured cars, but apparently the word "halftrack" didn't gain popularity until after the end of the war, since armoured halftracks are counted as armoured cars and unarmored ones are counted as tractors.

I seem to recall someone noting though that in many accounts, every tank is a Panther and every SPG is a Ferdinand?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Did it come out of the same school as AirLand Battle?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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How tricky is it to set a direct fire tank, say, to fire in an indirect role? If you are sufficiently desperate, I mean? Can't you just get out the protractor and a plumb-bob, and use a calculator?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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quote:

So let us assume that an arrow uses all its force on an armored target in .01 seconds.This gives us 610 newtons of force.

I think 0.01 seconds is a huge overestimate. Consider an arrow travels at 200-300fps, and so averages during deceleration 100-150fps. This means that during their deceleration, you're saying the arrow travels 1-1.5 feet! This isn't an arrow that bounced off any more, this is an arrow that had gone through the poor guy.

Divide the distance of deceleration by 10 and you multiply the gee force by 10. Suddenly the situation looks a lot more reasonable to me.

Edit: try the following thought experiment. Imagine you are throwing the hammer/firing the arrow at a spring. When the hammer/arrow is stationary, then all the kinetic energy has been transferred into the spring - this means the spring must have compressed by the same amount! Then if you use the formula

Work done = Force x Distance

You must conclude that the force exerted by the two objects must be exactly the same. What does alter is time this all takes and the rate of deceleration - it all happens a lot faster with the arrow. (Insert relevant disclaimers about how comparable a head on a neck is to a spring, but I don't think it's terrible.)

Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 13, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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JaucheCharly posted:

Told ya, it's lacking and you're also a sperglord.

As I said earlier, the physics is wrong in this post.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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OwlFancier posted:

I know, I just mean that I wouldn't have thought with the presumed desire for long range and the limitations of the caliber, and the fact that you're presumably firing tank-grade HE rounds rather artillery rounds which are presumably longer and have larger charges, that the actual effect at the far end would be rather minimal?

Well, consider that the 76mm and 85mm used by the T34 used the same ammo as their standard 76mm and 85mm field guns.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Fangz posted:

Well, consider that the 76mm and 85mm used by the T34 used the same ammo as their standard 76mm and 85mm field guns.

To add though, this differs by nation. The 75mm guns used by the Panthers didn't even share ammo with the Germans' 75mm anti-tank guns. Hey, throwing in an additional ammo type or three shouldn't be an issue for the superior german logistics, rigggght? :getin:

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Ensign Expendable posted:

The 52-K was an AA gun, the D-44 was an anti-tank gun, neither was made for indirect fire.

Alright, only the 76mm varieties then.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Enh, I've seen some compelling videos on YouTube showing people doing long range shots demonstrating that rifle rounds crossing below the sound barrier start tumbling and losing speed rapidly.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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I think generally there were also some number of volunteers, since your chances were probably better than if you were conscripted into infantry.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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OwlFancier posted:

And yet my primary complaint is that the T34 doesn't have a motorized turret.

E: Huh actually no it does it's just utterly poo poo, didn't know that.

Er, what, the T34 had one of the fastest powered traverses in the war.

quote:

The vaunted Panther tank had, in its first iteration (Panther Ausführung D), one of the slowest-turning turrets in the war, taking a full minute to traverse 360º. The gearing on the turret was changed in the Ausf. A, the next version, and all subsequent Panthers, giving the tank a competitive 15-second full-circle. But that didn’t last; a November, 1943 decision to govern the engine to a lower max RPM reduced slew rate to 18 seconds on Panthers from that point forward — if the crews didn’t learn about and adjust the governors. This was done to try to increase engine reliability: more Panthers were being lost to breakdowns than to Allied gunfire.

What’s interesting is that even though the early Panther turret was quite slow, it was still fast enough to track all but the fastest-moving tanks. All greater speed than a circle-a-minute buys, then, is ability to change targets, or get on a sighted target, faster.

The American system spun a Sherman turret 360º in fifteen seconds, too. The system in the M36 tank destroyer had the same performance, also. (Not surprising as the automotive gear in the tank destroyers was lifted from the Shermans).

The undisputed slewing champ of WWII tanks was the Russian T-34, which could bring its turret all the way around in 12 seconds.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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OwlFancier posted:

I genuinely thought they were hand cranked, looked it up and wikipedia says some were built with turret motors but not the basic model, and they were apparently not great?

Otherwise I can only find information on the upgunned version having a turret motor but nothing about how fast it was.

E: Ok looks like the 85 did have a good one, was it present in the 76?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq9lKJq1xQ0

Yeah, the 76 did have the electric traverse as well, though it lacked the neat integrated joystick thing.

I don't know what you are talking about as the 'basic model'. The 1940 variant?

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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What was the rationale for that design? I mean nowadays the dreadnought seems terribly obvious.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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americong posted:

Is there any kind of constant answer to "how do you defeat an insurgency"?

Obviously it's tough and expensive, but what has (even distantly historically) done the trick?

I'll note that in addition to the 'military' solutions, a fairly large number of insurgencies have been ended or even prevented by a decent negotiated settlement.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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The fact that the Soviets lost a lot of T34 doesn't really say much more that they produced a lot of T34s. When 1-2 thousand new tanks are being shipped to the front each month, what exactly is a commander supposed to do? Line them up in neat lines? No, you use them until they are destroyed.

Comparisons to German losses are very silly because the Germans simply did not have a comparable number of tanks to lose.

Edit: If the T34 was in a nebulous sense 'better' they would still have lost the majority of tanks they produced - that's the nature of attritional warfare on the Eastern Front. The only difference would be that the war might have ended sooner. The same goes for the germans - you'll note that german tank strength stayed roughly constant even as new tanks were being built - because losses almost exactly compensated. Warfare was just such that in general every produced tank, gun, half-track eventually got destroyed. If they didn't, you weren't using them right. The Germans just happened to produce fewer tanks, in a larger number of different models, and proportionately more of the heavier models (I'm counting the Panther as a heavy here).

I mean, by this comparison you must think the Maus is the best tank of the war - I mean, they only lost one.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Sep 20, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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There's actually a more important supplementary table that provides the explanation - the total disappearance of guns other than the 88 and 75mm from the German arsenal in 1943 onwards, and that the majority of tanks were hit from the side.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Sep 21, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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Boiled Water posted:

Despite the maths making it impossible, even if you could drop all the food how would you make sure the secret police didn't confiscate it?

If the secret police is going around trying to confiscate food from civilians that would likely cause civil unrest of its own.

Not saying the proposal is totally rational, but I feel like folks are giving it too little credit. It's one of those things that come down to cultural and political factors of how the Japanese would react at different levels, which is very difficult to quantify, really. (For instance, whether the comparison to the legendary Uesugi Kenshin sending salt to his enemies would raise the esteem of the US and reassure doubters of the US's honour)

It's not that different to the Hegelian remedy for insurgencies - bribe the hell out of them. Which works sometimes.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Sep 22, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

I can't see this happening at all.

Here's a Kraut officer's uniform:


Here's a Limey one:


They're similar, but not enough to easily pass for each other and that doesn't even get into if they're the same color or not. And that's not getting into the existence of tropical service variations of these uniforms, a matter of which I know nothing about because I have no reason to give a drat about it.

I dunno, I can see the ordinary edgyptian taxicab driver not really being able to tell the difference.

EDIT: VVV I can certainly see it more as a matter of luck than skill. I mean, not running into anyone who knows the German accent would be critical.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Sep 22, 2016

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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did they ever even make a contingency plan for if the contingency planners turn out to be the enemy? makes you think

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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The ability of the US to mobilise quickly in the event of such a war is also untested, though.

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

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In real life it's not generally considered okay to throw away thousands of lives in an operation that has no real hope of success, and which might not be needed anyway. The logic of 'hey you have those ships just sitting around, might as well throw them into the fire' doesn't really work.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Sep 23, 2016

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