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Tias
May 25, 2008

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New thread! /puffs out lungs

HOW ABOUT THOSE TANK DESTROYERS EH?


pictured: a powerful anti-tank weapon

Tias fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Aug 2, 2016

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Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

*clears throat*
Wallenstein.

Seriøsly dude, could I ask you to make an effortpost on Wallenstein? It was spread too much over the old thread for me to get a clear picture, and I understand he was some kind of big shot back in the day. Bonus love if you include the rumors about him being a wizard, that's all kinds of exciting :allears:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

wow, that's serious

Get cracking or I'm whipping out the umlauts

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

  • my fav
  • big into strategic mobility and deception, like Torstensson
  • but unlike that guy, very tactically defensive, his battles all go (1) make sure you're on better ground than your enemy (2) fortify it
  • also did what nobody else could do before or since, which is make sure an army that works for the HRE or its successor, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, is well supplied
  • rich as hell, put villas up on all his estates, you can visit them
  • definitely had gout and malaria
  • possibly also had syphilis and heart disease
  • not the sanest knife in the drawer
  • had a habit of telling people exactly what he thought of them in writing, which was sometimes good and sometimes not as good

I'm getting the impression that he was an autist as well, the whole devotion to minutiae must have driven people around him insane, but also made his sick level of attention to logistics possible.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

edit: Well, as far as the logistics is concerned, being one of the richest people in Europe didn't hurt.

Well, if you're gonna have a stiftelse, the monks can't go about sleeping in :stare: disharmonious proportions :stare:

Anyway, being hood rich isn't going to cut it, the world is full of people throwing a lot of money at problems without solving them( looking at you, Saudi Arabia!).

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

what bothered him specifically is that the plans the monks gave him specified cells that were very small, too small to stand up or move around in. he hated this because he thought it would be unhealthy, and didn't seem to get that they probably wanted to practice aesceticism in those cells. so he revised the plans and sent them the gently caress back.

Good to know W-bone really cares as long as you're a monk or never screw up :D

Also, can you repost the bit about the soldier who "shat on the hundred thousand sacraments"? Asking for a friend :allears:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Tias posted:

Good to know W-bone really cares as long as you're a monk or never screw up :D

Also, can you repost the bit about the soldier who "shat on the hundred thousand sacraments"? Asking for a friend :allears:

Found it!

quote:

"The weirdest today was the dude who broke in on an argument that two of his roommates were having by saying that he wished the devil would take their heads and knock them against the wall. When he was told that he shouldn't talk like that but instead remember the lord God, he said that he had made a pact with the Devil. Then he said that he "shat on the hundred thousand sacraments," "and other things too horrible to recount."

30yw soldiers own.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Nenonen posted:

So apparently Heinrich Himmler's lost wartime diaries have been found and Bild is publishing excerpts. They will be published in book form next year, but we already know from his notes that:

A) Himmler was having a lunch in Buchenwald when he gave orders to the SS to train dogs to tear Jews into pieces. (What a work ethic he had, most would finish their meal before resuming work.)

B) When Himmler was following a massacre in Minsk he nearly fainted. He almost did the same another time when an executed Jew's brain splattered onto his coat. (Yet people called him insensitive!)

Why would you even keep a diary of your role in carrying out a genocide, down to little details, when at the same time you tried to hide it from the public?

Tias
May 25, 2008

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P-Mack posted:

Pyke and schottte

Pyekë nde sczhœdtze

Du mener pik og skud? :smug:

BattleMoose posted:

They were completely different conflicts, hugely driven by terrain.

In Iraq, the USA was able to destroy the Iraqi army in a matter of weeks (?). Was a complete walkover, there was the Iraqi army and then it was destroyed. At which point it was effectively an occupation with an insurgency.

In Vietnam, the USA was never able to destroy the enemy army in the field. Largely because it was unable to find it. Throughout the Vietnam conflict, the Viet Cong continued to exist as an effective fighting force and maintained the capacity to engage with the USA army proper, in the field. What the USA was able to achieve in Iraq in a matter of weeks, it failed to ever achieve in Vietnam. drat Jungle.

Very simplified overview.

All cogent points, I'd add that the US forces were not permitted to invade north Vietnam on the ground and rout their main armies and demolish/occupy their production facilities for good (which is what happened in Iraq right away) for political reasons, out of fears that it would start a world war involving China and/or Russia. The NVA had no such compunctions, and often entered south Vietnam, where the terrain permitted ambushes of U.S. forces.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Let's not forget the Mars Climate Orbiter, that desintegrated in orbit because engineers failed to convert units from imperial to metric :bravo:

Tias fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Aug 3, 2016

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Endman posted:

There was also the border with Cambodia, one the U.S. at least had to appear like they respected while the NVA was able to funnel manpower and supplies to the south by breaching it.

Very true, the Laotian one as well, though bombing that one was more palatable.

Tias fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Aug 3, 2016

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Phanatic posted:

Casualties include both dead and wounded, so in that sense I'd say because Iraq was a brief high-intensity conflict followed by a long low-intensity occupation. In other words, fewer people were shooting at us for a shorter period of time than during Vietnam, so fewer casualties.

If you mean why did so few US troops die:

If you're hit on the battlefield, and not killed outright, if you can make it to an aid station before you bleed out you stand a pretty good chance of surviving. Ratio of wounded:killed was 3:1 in WWII, 4:1 in Vietnam, and 6:1 in Iraq.

To get people to an aid station before they bleed to death, you can either get them there faster, or slow down the bleeding. In Iraq, as compared to Vietnam, we had much more capability to do both; it's a lot easier to stop an attack and evacuate wounded when you have overwhelming local force and complete air supremacy. And Iraq saw the first use of bandages impregnated with clotting-stimulating compounds and tourniquets that can be applied and tightened with one hand. At least as important is training people how to use them.

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/13649/improving-the-odds-battlefield-medicine-in-iraq-and-afghanistan


And also, modern body armor is really damned effective. When you can take a full-length .30-caliber rifle cartridge to your chest at a range of 75 yards and still get up and run, there are a going to be a fair number of wounds that would have been otherwise fatal without armor.

While we're on the subject, Vietnam marked a resurgence in the view that it was more important to wound than kill enemy soldiers. I'm reasonably sure that A) the 5.56 M16 round was introduced specifically to maim enemy soldiers, so that their allies would spend valuable resources treating and protecting them, exposing themselves to the U.S. forces and that B) upon learning that U.S. forces could request helicopter MEDEVAC, Viet Cong/NVA forces deliberately instigated more low-intensity battles, in order to draw out helicopters to shoot with their machinegun crews.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Cyrano4747 posted:

Argh. No, no it was not. Will this myth not loving die?

I'm pretty sure I read about it somewhere that seemed legit, but could you maybe expound on why it's dumb instead of just implying that it's dumb?

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Cyrano4747 posted:

If we're talking immediately lethal or incapacitating it's pretty much just the central nervous system, followed by the vessels of the circulatory system. There are plenty of places that will be lethal in a little bit (lung shots, big organs full of blood that won't bleed out as fast as an artery, etc), and even more that will eventually be lethal without medical treatment (penetrating wounds of the gut).

Past that a lot of it comes down to psychological factors. The effects of weapons on the human body is some freaky poo poo. Some people will get shot absolutely to ribbons and keep fighting (MOH citations are good places to see this in action) while others will be combat ineffective after a relatively minor injury. This part of it isn't all that well understood , even now.

This is the weirdest thing. Some people will straight up die from grazes or being struck in the foot, due to shock( I think).

Endman posted:

Radios are decadent. You should be brave and use your flags like a good tank commander.

didn't North Korea still do this up until the war?

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

from reading about magic and witchcraft i learned that in a bunch of cases, if people believe they are going to die, they will.

in the witchcraft cases they don't even have to have had anything actually happen to them.

As you know I have a bit of a background in magic stuffs, and this is the damndest thing. African witches, in particular, seem to have the knack of cursing people - after they learn that there's a hex on them, they stop sleeping, eating and die.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Pellisworth posted:

The Lakota were badass horse archers who got high off of sweat lodges, sage incense, exhaustion, food and sleep deprivation with bonus blood sacrifice (sun dance) because they didn't have alcohol or other intoxicants. They ain't about no pussy pike-and-shot gout-ridden drunkard European warfare.

I was actually chatting with HEY GAL earlier and looked up the Lakota for "gun," it's mázawakȟáŋ which is a compound of metal + powerful.

In another lifetime I'd have studied Native American history and the frontier conflicts :unsmith:

I'm apprenticed to the apprentice of a Lakota medicine man, and unless you're being facetious, that's dumb and wrong. Sweat lodges and the sun dance are religious ceremonies, and you don't get high off them as much as it makes you feel really tired and lovely. The express purpose is to suffer in order for the great spirits to take pity on us, and so help the community.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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my dad posted:

Tias, I love your Danish pagan posting, but, er, please read your post again and consider what you just did...

Apart from posting 4 pages on (which, agreed, is dumb, but I didn't notice), I can't really see what you mean?

E: By 'us' I mean participants in a sweat, not that I am lakota, if that was unclear.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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If you were born on a reservation, how are you not a Lakota?

And yes, I guess I came off a bit hot before, sorry about that. I don't reckon myself any kind of medicine man or even very knowledgable about that sort of spirituality, though I do go to yearly retreats where I learn from an ordained medicine man who was taught by the Lakota. He has gotten a lot of flak for taking a month off teaching Danish people, but last we heard was that they blessed the endeavour, because they had themselves seen the reason of teaching people who respect the ways.

At any rate, I don't think being a neo-pagan makes me better at history, because, let's face it, we're reconstructing some very old beliefs with a bare minimum of sources.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Pellisworth posted:

Because I'm white and not a tribal member, I think the requirement was 25% Native American ancestry to enroll. The population on the reservation is about 10% non-tribal members (white), mostly ranching families like mine. There's a lot of intermarriage starting with my parent's generation (grandparents' generation not so much, I dunno if that's because of anti-miscegenation laws or simple racism), maybe half of my cousins in the area are mixed-race and tribal members.

Land ownership on the reservation is complicated, I actually just learned about this talking with my dad when I was home this summer. The reservation is a patchwork of land owned directly by the tribe, land leased for private use, Tribal Enterprise land owned by the tribe but held in trust by a private party, and privately deeded land (not owned by the tribe). We hold the deed to our family ranch, so it's not owned by the tribe despite being on the reservation. Things like policing and the justice system get really weird on reservations because tribal sovereignty is complex.

What happened historically is that the Lakota were settled on reservations, and many Lakota families were given allotments of land. They didn't really have a concept of land ownership, and they weren't farmers or ranchers, so many of those allotments were then sold to white settlers. I've seen the physical deed once a long time ago, if memory serves our land was originally allotted to a man named Blue Nose, sold to some white guy, then us and our family has been ranching it for four generations now.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs has historically been pretty evil and taken every opportunity to gently caress over reservations and native peoples. I read in Albert White Hat's memoir that there used to be more Lakota families ranching, but during WW2 (and maybe Vietnam too?) the BIA invoked some law that allowed them to seize land that was unoccupied for 60 days or something. They took a bunch of land from Lakota who left to fight in the war and sold or leased it. I'll have to dig that book out and find more details.

Edit: there's also a ton of tribally owned land that is off the reservation, too. Check out this map:



there are four counties in the south that are spotted with tribal land. The entirety of those counties used to be part of the reservation but lol gently caress you natives.

You might not be surprised to learn that the reservations are among the very poorest counties and communities in the US. Unemployment around 85% (no, not a typo).

Interesting stuff, thank you so much!

And no, my grand-teachers reservation in Boulder, CO is completely hosed. Since he's the medicine man, he's expected to help people in need, so everyone borrows gas money and a couch to crash on from him. Also, everyone smokes dope, and the teen suicide rate was staggering. They can't even agree on one healing ceremony, so instead of holding rites together, they have 4 or 5 different ones :(

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Pellisworth posted:

Hmm I'm pretty sure there aren't any reservations near Boulder? The Sioux reservations are all in the Dakotas and Minnesota. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_reservation has a good map, Colorado has a few in the extreme SW corner of the state.

Native Americans were generally given the shittiest land available, so the local economy is really weak and there are no jobs to be had. If you stay on the reservation, you can receive (lovely) government housing, healthcare, and commodity food. It's hard to leave because the education system is bad and ill-prepares students for college, plus you're leaving behind your culture and people. So the choice for most Lakota is to stay on the rez and live in miserable conditions or leave everything behind and try to get an education or job in the outside world. For those few that do make it, it's hard to go back to the reservation even if they wanted to give back to their community, because there are no jobs there for them.

That's related to what I was saying about authentic Native American medicine men and teachers, by definition their passion is to serve and teach in their own communities and they're going to be poor. I had an ex in Los Angeles telling me about this awesome spiritual teacher who does crystal healing and also is teaching totally authentic classes on Native American religion. Yeah, no, legit dudes are not hawking crystals and juice cleanses in loving Hollywood.

Alcoholism and more recently meth usage is an epidemic, domestic abuse is really bad in part because of the tribal justice system. If the offender is a tribal member, the tribe has jurisdiction but the court system is so underfunded and backed up most crimes get ignored unless they're especially bad. If the offender is non-tribal, the tribe cannot prosecute them. Hypothetically, if I beat my tribal-member wife, the tribal police and courts can't do poo poo about it because they do not have jurisdiction over me, a non-member. Instead, the case has to be handled by a federal prosecutor so good loving luck getting the attention of a federal attorney for your domestic abuse case.

Edit: one weird trick to get away with most anything short of murder!

I'm not entirely sure where he lives, I think he was ordained in Pine Ridge, though I'm not sure.

This guy is definitely authentic( going into a sweat without a proper medicine man is asking the spirits to gently caress with you, IMO), though he has a rough time of it. He comes here to Denmark to teach in order to get some cash for the folks back home, who don't really appreciate him going, and they're all unemployed and on dope :(

And yeah, I know about the legal loophope, it's pretty terrible. What are the odds these things will ever change?

HEY GAL posted:

if you were a dude from laibach with a sick rear end rifle, would you lose money betting that italian officers are not suicidally insane

is laibach still part of the Empire in 1916? idk

Now I'm imagining those crunk slovenian art industrial musicians shooting italians. Eh, still good!

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Pellisworth posted:

Also, why the gently caress would you attend a sweat lodge ceremony if you didn't care about the associated ritual and beliefs? It's not like passing an arms-length pipe around smoking sage with a bunch of old Native American dudes while your body temperature is so hot as to risk heart attack and stroke is a fun thing in isolation.

Regarding the legal nightmare that is the collision of the American justice system and tribal sovereignty, it's getting better. My mom works in criminal justice and law enforcement on the reservation, tribal/state/federal governments are all very aware of the problem and have been devoting more resources toward federal prosecutors working on such cases. That's still not addressing the root problem of the current tribal sovereignty system being fundamentally hosed, though.

That one's easy I'm afraid. White middle class new age tweakers will throw tons of money at anything that promises them a sense of spiritual gratification without having to work too hard, and plastic shaman are all too happy to oblige them. I don't think they don't care per se, but proper ceremonies have a ton of work associated with them, taboos that cannot be broken and which seem complicated or unjust to the western mind, and will likely not fix all of your problems right away.

Well, that's good. I pray things will work themselves out eventually :/

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Holy poo poo, that article has squamous angles and euclidean symmetry enough that my brain achieved harmonious elevation for all of 5 seconds. Well, that or the rather forceful satay I just ate :catdrugs:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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What frenchmen?

Tias
May 25, 2008

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It's from Afghanistan, dudes. I think it's a given that it was both crewed and someone got pretty banged up sitting inside of it. Maybe I'm just jaded, but that's war for you.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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JaucheCharly posted:

The nyt had a piece on the injuries from ied's a month ago. While the blast might not penetrate the interior, it causes typical injuries to the heels and the padding that the bones rest on that will not heal. The result is amputation.

drat :( Here's hoping they get through the VA maze in somewhat good spirits.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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darthbob88 posted:

It was also IIRC threatening the German flank on their drive towards the Caucasus oil fields. And yeah, :justpost: about Soviet urban tactics. We've heard about landsknecht shooting pistols out of windows, now let's hear about Red Army shooting grenades into windows.

Seconded!

Also, I haven't talked about how Zhuikov was cool for an entire thread now, which means it's time to do so again soon

Tias
May 25, 2008

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So I just finished The Dollops podcast on the Iraqi war, and it was amazing! Entertaining and informative in equal amounts. Do you lot know of any good podcasts about modern/contemporary warfare that are reasonably impartial and well done? I don't like Hardcore History, but in that vein..

Grand Prize Winner posted:

English name question: I know there used to be a lot of towns with streets like Gropecunte Alley and so forth,

Still is. Copenhagen, a modern capital city, has three "poo poo street"'s, each with a different slang term from the 16-1800s.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Fangz posted:

In principle WP are smoke rounds, and flamethrowers are asphyxiation weapons for use against fortifications. Napalm is definitely an anti-personnel weapon, though.

In principle yes, but I have read about both Israel and the U.S. using them against both combatants and civilians in my time. I can remember Cast Lead and the battle of Fallujah of the top of my head, but there were many others.

Tias fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Aug 16, 2016

Tias
May 25, 2008

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V. Illych L. posted:

couldn't it also work as a terror weapon

i mean WP is seriously nasty, chemically speaking

It IS a terror weapon, particularly when you spam closely packed civilian ghettos in Palestine with it :eng99:

E: f,b

xthetenth posted:

Wallenstein would either end up with a C level job somewhere or totally blacklisted from his industry. Possibly both.

Or rule the loving world. Let's face it, he's got the spergs to pull it off.

SeanBeansShako posted:

Don't be a rascist jerk about anyone who lives on the British Isles.

K thnx.

Yeah, they pull that off fine themselves :iamafag:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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HEY GAL posted:

every biography of him i've read uses the phrase "ruthlessly ambitious" at some point and i'm all, who that i'm familiar with isn't?

at some point i need to talk about young hauptmann wallenstein and his first war experience, which is insane, or colonel wallenstein and what he did when the 30yw broke out (hint: :ese:)

:justpost: you git. Sooner rather than later!

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Endman posted:

Or this account is complete bollocks from a disgruntled German.

I doubt it. The DA veterans were formerly various falange/carlist/fascist youth corps, and while they had combat experience, actual training could vary wildly.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Ensign Expendable posted:

Reading some more about mercenaries in Bogdan Khmelnitskiy's uprising. Some guys on the Lithuanian side simply travelled so slowly that they never closed in with the enemy before their contract expired and then disbanded.

Slow-downs are still legit. I hope their bosses resigned in disgust and joined the world revolution.

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Why trust weak fleisch when you have robo cohorts of full mathematical perfection at your command :confused:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Nenonen posted:

Mountain guns also were designed to be carried on trails by pack animals or men by splitting them into parts, and mules are great for this because they're sure footed and can carry as much as a horse. Horses are still better if you have actual roads, I gather, and you really need roads for heavy artillery.

I have been speculating lately that Mexican troops may have tequila mules, for the same reasons

Tias
May 25, 2008

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aphid_licker posted:

Are we just posting MAJOR HUNKS now?

Because



This is apparently the Spanish Foreign Legion. Kinda love those uniforms.

The beautiful goat has won my heart, and, I think we can safely say, the thread :allears:

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Grand Prize Winner posted:

I know a couple costume designers who are deeply into the history of fashion. If I remember later this week I'll see if I can dig anything up. One of my former professors really knows a lot about this kinda thing but we had a falling out so I'm a little hesitant.

vvv: I'll see what I can do.

be reunited through your joint passion for floofy hats. You know it to be right

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Why are the sibirian troops experienced? Civil war deployment, or is it khalkin gol or something?

Tias
May 25, 2008

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Kind of Gotz-y!

Tias
May 25, 2008

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xthetenth posted:

I think you mean the primacy of Austria in German politics (this is a bad idea don't do this).

A.E.I.O.Goon

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Tias
May 25, 2008

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Fangz posted:

What would people pick as a Nightmare Team of military leaders? Grigory Kulik in charge of armour, George McClellan in charge of military intel, Gaius Terentius Varro commanding the infantry, Napoleon Bonaparte handling the logistics?

Roman Ungern-Sternberg as political leader in charge of objectives. Why yes, I can forge a pan-european empire united to the beat of the reindeerhide drum, with only a brigade to my name, just watch me! :downsgun::hf::hist101:

Tias fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 29, 2016

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