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Bieeanshee posted:It's noted at least once or twice that our Kosh has an interest in humans that borders on the unseemly, isn't it? Plus that psychic exchange where he manifests as Sheridan's Dad. I can imagine him being that kind of sentimental, as well as paternal. "Unseemly?" He wasn't the Vorlon mind raping and treating Lyta like garbage. It's pretty clear that OG Kosh was an optimist and idealist that strongly believed in the ability of the younger races to become better. The rest of the Vorlons were basically right wing neocons who decided to genocide the galaxy since people didn't agree with them.
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Nov 17, 2018 04:18
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Hexyflexy posted:I want to hate this: This looks like concept art for a new Netflix series.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:41
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Payndz posted:My favourite VFX shot from the whole show is from 'Severed Dreams': the one where a couple of Thunderbolts do a Stuka run on C&C and one gets a wing blown off by the point defences, but keeps going along its original course and tumbles straight into the bow of the station - with the camera following it all the way in. That was the first space battle in B5 that really seemed like a pitched battle. Everything prior to that had been either a bunch of slow moving warships shooting lasers, or a small amount of fighters coasting around the screen. I almost forgot the Centauri attack in S2 but that wasn't really memorable or dramatic in the same way.
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Nov 26, 2018 01:00
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hope and vaseline posted:Not to mention the Vorlons' habit of genetically engineering the species they visit to view them as literal Angels outside of their encounter suits. And other shifty stuff they've done up to that point in the series, like destroying that immortality cure in season 1. The Vorlons as a whole seem like their entire set up to convince the younger races to trust them became an own goal. All that work developing telepaths that for Earth at least got co-opted by the shadows. Then the reveal that they make themselves look like angels, so after the surprise wore off its was then "Hey wait theyve been manipulating our society for 1000s of years" and finally the moment they decide to finally get involved they go with planetary genocide and somehow think it'll be fine. The rules of the Vorlons/Shadows conflict never made sense either. So the shadows starting openly killing a bunch of races, but the second the Vorlons retaliate they assassinate a diplomat? Then its back to non-interference until their planet killers are ready.
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Dec 1, 2018 21:47
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Doctor Zero posted:Skipping around on S1 is acceptable. S2 onward, pretty much isn't. There's too much stuff intertwined in there. There are a few weak episodes, but never without at least one great moment that makes it worth it. Going through the episode list even ones with a weak A plot have a stellar B plot, like Knives. All Alone in the Night has the goofy "secret abduction, team up with a rival" but some absolutely crucial development for the Minbari. I'll say there many things from S1 that never come back in a meaningful way (TKO), but S2 is where literally everything starts getting linked in minor ways, like when the Exploration ship gets lost there's a breadcrumb that leads to major plot stuff. Is there a single S2 episode that doesn't foreshadow something major or relatively significant? pentyne fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 04:04
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I am just about to watch Knives and I have yet to encounter an episode that could be utterly removed without a significant loss. Soul Mates, perhaps? I don't think any episode with Londo as the main character could ever be removed.
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Mar 11, 2019 04:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Also, respect the I lived during a time where I was "Hey that's the Malcolm in the Middle dad" What a changing world we live in.
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Apr 28, 2019 01:49
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NoneMoreNegative posted:Reading some old PC Zone scans on archive.org, the nostalgia I recorded the entire series off TNT in the 90s when they started showing them in the run up to S5 and then watched them every summer for a few years until I bought the DVDs. Now I can just watch it randomly on Amazon Prime. 90s kids thing being recording in ED on vhs so you can get 5 hours of tv rather then the standard 2 then carefully labeling 25 blank VHS with all the episode numbers and titles. I'm not gonna lie when it came time to pack up my old room I hesitated for way too long before agreeing to throw them away.
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May 29, 2020 00:12
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I loved the small scale of the ship to ship dogfighting in season 1, you have the CO heading out with a half dozen fighters to attack a raiding party like its some D&D party trying to rescue a caravan. Also, literally everyone in command positions having Starfury training, like Garibaldi, the enlisted security chief is a trained pilot. It'd be like if Miles O'Brian was part of a crack commando unit.
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May 29, 2020 03:14
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V-Men posted:That's what I mean when I talk about an aviation branch. You wouldn't typically just learn to be a fighter pilot over a like a 6 month training course just for the money. Typically that kind of training is complicated and expensive and dedicated to those who want to be fighter pilots full-time. If you're going to train someone to fly a Starfury, you wouldn't just let them go back to being security or whatever. You'd make them be a fighter pilot for years, at least until they paid back what you spent training them. When you're living on what is essentially a metal bubble where if it pops you die the more people able to fly the other smaller bubbles that aren't popped are probably a wildly good idea.
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May 30, 2020 22:17
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Can we at least talk about things they should've keep in from The Gathering? - Those long side handle space laser rifles were amazing and I always hated how their later "rifle" power weapons were just stock rifle designs with bits of wire and metal in weird places. At least the PPGs had a nice form factor to them. - Vorlons shaking hands with people, using hands to pick up stuff. - The odd extra minbari face bones - Wasn't there just a vacuum cleaner or something with some decals on it as set dressing?
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Jun 4, 2020 06:41
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When trying to find the "electric bleachers" quote from B5 it dug up an old GBS thread from 2016 with some great bits https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788591&pagenumber=4 wrt to a blooper reel where Boxleitner calls himself Sinclair by accident quote:There's a story about that last clip where Boxleitner calls himself Sinclair: It was getting late on the last day of filming and they didn't want to go past midnight because they'd have to start paying overtime; two "suits" from the network had shown up, ready to stop filming at the stroke of twelve. Director John C. Flinn wanted to do a good job because it was the first time he'd directed an episode, but with just minutes left they still hadn't finished. For the end of the scene to look good it needed multiple takes from different angles, but they only had time to do one take. So they started filming and Boxleitner called himself Sinclair. Everyone laughed, even the suits, and that's Flinn pretending to strangle him. They had to film past midnight but the mood was lightened and Flinn had time to film it the way he wanted. Peter David, who wrote the episode and was an extra in that scene, wondered if Boxleitner had deliberately flubbed his line because he knew Flinn needed more time. As a first-time director, he'd look bad if he went over, so Boxleitner made it his own fault. People have probably asked Boxleitner about that at conventions but I don't know if he's confirmed or denied it (or if he even remembers). And about the cast in general quote:That's a really good insight. The casting is superb, even if they're not the best actors, because they give it their all and they're bringing a lot of heart to the performances. and my favorite quote:Not quite, he had a file of index cards with episode breakdowns, but had to leave a lot of room for the expected unexpected production changes. For example, each character had an "out" in case the actor left, etc., like Talia being a deep-cover PsiCorps plant. And of course you always improvise some and take cues as the actors develop their characters. JMS wrote a eulogy for Jerry Doyle and included this gem: pentyne fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 03:11
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CainFortea posted:I'm specifically talking about his first talk with Morden. That's the key to me thinking he's a tragedy. Yes, everything after that is the normal route of "maybe just a little show of force" -> "okay well now we need more force" -> "a little genocide, as a treat" -> "oh gods i'm a monster what have I done". He's a washed up nobody who dreams of the glory days of Empire and even if accidentally given a taste sees nothing wrong with his rise in status as the bodies pile up. To him, the non-centurai aren't worth the same and even asking for a day when they had power back is like the people now bemoaning how great it was in the 50s when people knew their place and wholesome values reigned. It's a extremely prejudiced and dangerous view. He watches with horror as a massive homeworld is bombed war crime style and does nothing to effect the settlement or laws passed to punish the Narns. Laws that are loving vile given he openly states that Narn is being "civilized" by occupation. His only "shock" moment comes from realizing that the glorious Centuri Republic is facing consequences as a result of an insane child given absolute authority and from the shadows/vorlons and suddenly it's all been too much. Vir has it right which makes him the progressive humanist to Londo's staunch conservative imperialist. Even after all the horror Londo is still grasped by the prestige of his position, meanwhile Vir burnt his political career to the ground to save a few hundred Narn lives the moment he could. pentyne fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 05:08
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Not quite, he had a file of index cards with episode breakdowns, but had to leave a lot of room for the expected unexpected production changes. For example, each character had an "out" in case the actor left, etc., like Talia being a deep-cover PsiCorps plant. And of course you always improvise some and take cues as the actors develop their characters. JMS wrote a eulogy for Jerry Doyle and included this gem: So apparently this isn't true at all? Most of my understanding of all the behind the scenes stuff has come from what I've read about in SA Babylon 5 threads.
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Jun 6, 2020 10:07
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Speaking of, is it true that JMS was planning for S4 was supposed to be all Shadow War, and S5 was supposed to be Earth Civil War? Then when PTEN ceased to be and it was "show's over wrap it up" he put everything into season 4 and then when TNT showed up to rescue the show he put together the 5th season from his plans for other shows/tv movie etc.
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Jun 6, 2020 10:39
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Doctor Zero posted:I don't know why you keep saying he didn't. Please cite your sources. He talks about his exit strategy for characters quite a bit in the script books, including what would have happened to people who didn't leave. I'm fairly certain he talked about it on usenet as well. Repeating this, the only reason I even brought the subject up in this thread was your response in the other one Anonymous Zebra posted:This isn't even remotely true, but it's not something we can discuss in detail in a newbie thread. The original plot for Babylon 5 that JMS "planned" ahead of time resembles almost in no way the plot of the show that aired, diverging mid-way through season 1 and never going back. Babylon 5 is a very good show for it's time despite the cheap budget, and huge production issues the show ran into, but JMS has been blowing air up peoples asses claiming for decades about how well planned the show was while evidence from his early internet posts show that he was basically doing a really good job of making stuff up as he went. Again, we can't really talk about it here, but everyone who has seen the series knows what major production issues I'm talking about and how they drastically changed the plot of the show. Yet everyone else is saying there are multiple sources contradicting this and JMS himself saying the same thing over the last 20 years and your main argument is that he's lying about it.
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Jun 7, 2020 01:59
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McCloud posted:I wanted to write a reply sooo bad. But the greater good must prevail I don't even know how to reply to their take because it's like they barely paid attention to the episode if those were their complaints. Binging a series has its benefits and drawbacks, probably one we're seeing now that 19 hours in after what, 2 weeks? into a 90s TV series people are staring to miss things in the show and not making any connections between previous episodes when it starts blurring together. Does season 1 on a first watch not convey how completely far above the other races the Vorlons are? By Deathwalker its obvious that not only are the Vorlons barely involved with what is going on but they can do what they want in spite of all 4 great powers and the entire league and not give the slightest gently caress about consequences. In any context you'd see that and think it's some hyper power that really doesn't worry about anything involving the little people and sending a Vorlon ambassador is more like "sure have fun in the petting zoo" for them.
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Jun 8, 2020 01:17
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Jedit posted:They already turned up and merced Deathwalker, and nobody said or did a thing. At the same time Kosh basically admitted that the Vorlons are immortal. Sinclair even jokes "well go ahead and file a complaint" while grinning because he knows literally no one and nothing is going to make the Vorlons care.
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Jun 8, 2020 10:36
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sebmojo posted:Babylon squared is the real mind blower Yeah that's a great end of episode stinger that just percolated for years. It's like if rather then trying to build up in one season to drip fed secret then massive reveal like West World something was jump dropped in an episode that makes everyone go "wtf that is insane" and it doesn't come back up for years but everyone knows it must at some point.
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Jun 8, 2020 11:52
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CommissarMega posted:Same, and I'd submit him as the real hero of the show, or at least the one with the most obvious hero's journey. I mean, he starts out as some wimpy assistant, ends up as perhaps the finest Emperor the Centauri ever had. One of the best comedic scenes in the series is the bit where Vir and Londo are just sitting silently in Londo's quarters after they got told they would both be Emperor constantly looking back at each other and trying to chat and immediately suspicious of what the other says.
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Jun 8, 2020 22:15
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Bell_ posted:Jeez Louise, can we stop posting spoilers in the blind watch thread? make it a 1 day probe it's literally happening 2x a day now.
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Jun 9, 2020 00:50
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Jedit posted:Make it a 100k probe, cancelled when the Blind Thread gets to the end of S5. I've been biting my tongue not mentioning things in there that aren't even technically spoilers, like telling The Doctor he was right in spotting the Forbidden Planet reference. I'm sure I could confirm that, but the more I post in there the more likely it is I'll slip up. Better not to start. I wanted to talk about production stuff and things like Richard Briggs being deaf but now I realize they're watching that and letting it affect their perception of the actor's performance when it's one of those things better learned after the fact and then its "holy poo poo I never would guessed" I like the meta commentary in the thread like how the Ben Zayn actor went 110% with role and pissed everyone off but those details should be discussed here with the episode titles bolded in the post for later reference when the blind watchers finish and come back here to read what we reacted and discussed while watching them. I do love seeing them all call Garibaldi Chief ACAB and see him as this hyper fash thug since some of the character is literally Jerry Doyle just being himself.
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Jun 9, 2020 01:55
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Horizon Burning posted:It was with The Gathering. Mira Furlan apparently hated the heavy makeup and voice alteration, which is why it was lessened to what we got in Season 1, but it was not related to the transformation. Originally, Delenn was going to not just transform from Minbari to human but male to female. Didn't one of Na'toth's actresses have to quit from becoming allergic to the make-up?
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Jun 9, 2020 06:25
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Timby posted:I believe the story was that Babylon 5 was constructed with incredibly tight budget restrictions, substantially smaller than Babylon 4, and largely funded by the Minbari on the condition they could choose the commanding officer. I have to imagine by the point of B4 vanishing you had enough frustrated people plus Earth Firsters still convinced they could've beat the Minbari to just pack it in and ramp the military back up.
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Jun 10, 2020 04:01
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Timby posted:Eh, yes and no. I say this as a recovering alcoholic who got sober in 2009, his relapse is almost comic book-ish in how over-the-top it's portrayed. The relapse is S5, I think they meant the whole "works for Edgar Industries" thing.
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Jun 11, 2020 06:56
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Narsham posted:Biggs liked to run lines with other performers to get his timing and reactions down. Pat Tallman mentions doing that with him because she liked running lines, too. It sounds like most of the actors playing humans weren’t much interested. So that’s a factor. He's loving great in Medlab when the role calls for heated and emotional like that episode with the alien probe.
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Jun 14, 2020 06:54
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Jedit posted:Basically explaining the purpose of Sheridan's characterisation. I saw their reaction and I wanted to say something about them saying he was a spoiled rich boy officer and I have no idea where the rich part came from.
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Jun 16, 2020 09:29
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I just picked a random episode to watch and it was the gropos episode and its got some searing takes on war, institutional military, and the value of life. 25 years later and some of these scenes would be seen as current and powerfully relevant if they aired on a show today especially the Dr. Franklin/his General Dad dynamic. I do love that Garibaldi's dad was named Alfredo and the apple fell very far from the tree. pentyne fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 23, 2020 |
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Jun 23, 2020 09:16
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Watch group just finished "In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum". Conway played it pretty good. It's basically how people slide into fascism as "hey, its just extra creds, they're not making me do anything different" and then its a series of ramping up and you either risk your life and career to push back or since you're already involved you just go along out of reluctance and/or fear.
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Jul 15, 2020 09:52
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Lexx is extremely 90s Canadian dark erotic comedy sci-fi It's not a huge genre but man there is nothing else even remotely like it. Forever Knight is kind of close but too mired down in cop drama.
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Sep 13, 2020 06:18
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happyhippy posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSIc01NgbjE It kind of solved 2 problems in one, a stuntwoman and a show actress. I doubt they expected her to do any stunts but it's still an option. JMS got real creative to stretch the budget for the show.
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Jan 6, 2021 09:40
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Someone once described the pilot as a quintessential version of the 80s/90s tv culture change. It's so close to trying to get to something new and unique but still reeks of 80s sensibilities and style in many ways. By the time season 1 hit they have managed to figure out a theme that stood apart from the previous decade and focused on that to what I would say is pretty great success by season 2 in creating a distinct vibe that wasn't trying to copy Star Trek or any other big 80s shows.
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Jan 28, 2021 08:32
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sebmojo posted:I think s1 is underrated. The extras and costuming are kind of exuberant, like they're so pumped to be doing this awesome sci did show, and Michael ohare is delightful. I specifically mean the stuff from the pilot they had dropped already by s1 and then had refined more by s2. Even the way they shoot the actors way in close during conversations and things like that, major hold overs from the 80s. Also, the super weird stuff like the weapons and really "alien" make up they tried to go hard in on the sci-fi angle before settling for just making firearms look like modern ones with some futuristic design    A lot of the hair and costumes too were very 80s and over the top for civilian characters, but by s1 they had a much sleeker look then the pilot for a lot of things. S2 was kind of where it went into a sharp, crisp kind of style as a whole.
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Jan 28, 2021 08:46
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That photo was probably late 90s? maybe 2000? half of them are dead.
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Apr 30, 2021 09:57
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When it aired in the 90s the whole Earth fascism thing seemed like a fantasy of how quickly and easily it goes from "normal govt" to "fascist dictator rule" complete with tons of ships and soldiers perfectly willing to just mass kill tens of thousands of civilians and bombing definite civilian targets and uh....yeah. The last 25 years have basically made it look practically modern. Even the whole thing with Edgar Industries aged like wine, as the fascist figurehead leader slipping the leash of capital and getting too much power to be dealt with normally becoming a problem is literally what is happening again.
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Aug 26, 2021 06:45
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There's potential to tell a sort of alt version of the story. This is honestly like comparing the Battlestar Galactica series more then anything. Bringing back original cast members in different roles would be great for the show's legacy and its existing fans while still being completely accessible to a new audience. I am curious if they can go so big with all the alien actors and make-up, as that's pretty expensive in general and a lot of those CW shows feel like they're on shoestring budgets. I would also expect JMS to have a concrete X season, X episodes planned out pretty in depth.
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Sep 27, 2021 18:55
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They just lost Supernatural and Babylon 5 is probably expected to have a minimum level of success from franchise fans, so it's probably a safe bet. I would question if they can really do an older adult themed military sci-fi show on the CW though. I imagine there's going to be a couple of youngsters, like spoiled diplomats brats or station families who get caught up in the chaos. The twitter thread is great though, and this really seems like it might be a passion project for a big chunk of CW execs especially if they're really giving JMS complete freedom to do it his way. also, sad quote:How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G’Kar? How do you tell Sheridan’s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack? He's completely right and the best chance he has to do right by the original series is something completely new. Bring in the OG actors in related roles or even major characters who are completely different then before. If Bruce Boxleitner was recurring cast as one of the hard-rear end fascist Earthforce commanders it'd be great for fans of the old series and completely approachable to new fans. pentyne fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 00:19
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The Last Call posted:My excitement is severely tempered by the fact this is on the CW, they are not known for budgets. They can't be that much worse then SyFy and BSG looked fine for the most part. Horizon Burning posted:well i mean neither was the original....... famously this was a big part of the casting process, JMS went for actors who had some issues that kept them from getting big paycheck jobs. Biggs was 90% deaf. Mira barely spoke english. Jeff Conway had a history of addiction issues. O'Hare was a great stage actor but definitely not the kind of actor you'd pick as the face of a franchise show in the early 90s. Doyle, well everyone said he was basically a chud before chuds were a thing, so who knows if that was a factor. "electric bleachers" is still such a funny line given that JMS basically said that it was something Doyle would say in real life. Hiring Bruce was like a studio demand to get a classic leading man presence in the show. His cache with the suits was, I'm assuming, a big part in his little stunt in deliberately blowing his lines on the one blooper reel. The story was something like JMS was getting grilled hard on his budget and they sent a PETN suit to set to watch and make sure he didn't run into overtime, so when Bruce screwed up and ruined the take, requiring them to go into overtime, the suits approved it and JMS was able to take his time and get the scene right. pentyne fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Sep 28, 2021 |
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Sep 28, 2021 01:09
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The answer to "who could replace G'Kar" is to just write the character completely differently. JMS has wanted this for 2 decades and is smart enough to know a reboot isn't going to work, and everything has to be something new while honoring the memory of the old. I'd be surprised if the character names were even the same.
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Sep 28, 2021 08:50
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The episode with the Markabs essentially committing self-genocide because they refuse to believe the truth about a disease is over 25 years old and if they did it again today people would lose their poo poo on them for being "political" and it would be just glorious to watch unfold. Of all the things to change, remaking that episode and keeping to the original plot would be amazing. I never read or heard anything about the background for that episode, but the context in the mid 90s make me think that AIDS was likely a factor in writing the story.
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Sep 29, 2021 01:01
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