Batman's Shameful Batman Thread

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Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Darth Nat posted:

I always want to read the Morrison Bat-epic, as there are parts I haven't gotten to, but I was so bummed by that last issue. After years of "Batman is totally awesome and can do anything," it seems to end with "Batman is totally lame and kids' stuff." I wonder if he had the same ending planned before the New 52 happened and hosed everything up.

What? Damian had to die because when parents fight, it's the children who suffer. There's a recurring theme about kids being forced to fight the adults war.

And Kathy Kane killing Talia was the finality that Batman won't and can't give himself. By his nature, and the nature of comic books, they would have been at war forever.

The end of Batman Inc was a downer, but it was honest. He gave us everything to build a better Batman. Maybe leaving things on a down note was supposed to inspire someone to build him back up again. Tomasi followed the swing back upwards while Snyder had the Joker cutting off faces.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2016 03:14

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:04

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Squizzle posted:

Wait, so the book with the shapeshifter and the lady raised as an assassin without language is using an emotion-alterer and a psych professional as its villains? Gosh there's no way this will turn into a story about the nature of identity and the construction of self!!!!!

Squizzle for editor of the Bat books. I'm really enjoying the Batman books for the first time since Morrison left, but Squiz dog fell backwards into some poo poo.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2016 07:31

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

The Batman RIP batmobile looked great with the red windows. And speaking of the flying Batmobile, please tell me that Bat Cow, Alfred the Cat, and Titus the dog haven't disappeared.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2016 05:47

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Toxxupation posted:

Sorry for the doublepost, but:

A couple of weeks ago, someone mentioned that the three best Batman stories are TKJ/TDKR/Year One (or, that if you were to quiz a random person that's what would be presented). I'm interested in testing that, so made up a strawpoll so everyone can choose what they consider to be the three "best" Batman stories. I think I've covered pretty much every conceivable choice one could realistically make, so go crazy.

Anyways, here's the link.

The Killing Joke is going to get buried, Year One may or may not make it, and DKR will probably still be the top but there will be vocal opposition.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 06:24

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Took the poll and got the top three in order. Weird.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 23:55

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Jack of Hearts posted:

I guess I don't have any that I'd put up along side my favorites from other books. I've kept trying to find a way in over the years, and I haven't found it.

Batman was my first favorite superhero. I grew up watching reruns of '60s Batman, and as a six year old with no sense of camp or irony, I thought it was the coolest poo poo ever. I like corny funny Batman. Then as a teenager there was the Timmverse Batman, which was just about perfect. When I started reading graphic novels I remember really enjoying TDKR, too.

So in principle I'm down with a variety of Batmen. But when I try reading the big arcs I usually seem to lose interest fast. And I hated Year One in particular. I thought it was plodding and self-serious to the point of pretentiousness.

Are you thinking of Zero Year? Year One was four issues. As much as I like Morrison's run, I think Year One hits all the notes that make Batman great in what would be considered a brief story these day.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 00:13

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

My buddies girlfriend was just telling me about going to high school with Dini's wife. I only missed her by like six years.

Besides that whole incident that graphic novel is based off of, Paul Dini is a lucky man.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2016 07:03

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

For this sort of game it's better to start from the beginning. You get to establish your Batman and his relationships. I'd like to see them add in Robin, and let you decide how to use him. Is he bam and powing right alongside you, or is he used as back up?

# ¿ Sep 25, 2016 20:41

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

redbackground posted:

It's the Tally Man's time to shine!

Wasn't he used a time or two within the last five years or so? I was really surprised how happy I was to see Punch and Jewelee. They're right up there with the Atomic Family as obscure characters I'd love to see used in a modern context.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2016 05:56

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

I'm a big fan of King's style, and bringing back Ace the Bat Hound is enough to earn my loyalty regardless of whatever else he might do.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2016 05:23

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Wasn't Tally Man some literary reference? I vaguely remember him from Knightsquest.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2016 19:58

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

No, the last issue of All Star was bad. Soured me on the whole story.

Really looking forward to the latest issue of Batman tonight. Haven't had a real good Batman//Catwoman story since Hush.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2017 03:13

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

That two parter was everything I wanted out of a Batman/Catwoman story. Easily one of my all time favorite Batman stories.

# ¿ Jan 19, 2017 21:05

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Tom King's Bane has been awesome. He's getting that Knightfall edge back.

I wonder if they're giving Dixon work because he's making money off of Bane regardless.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2017 23:35

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

It was Abattoir, and the hostage (his cousin or some other family member) died. Bad guy can't tell you where they're keeping people in death traps if they're dead. What I don't remember is if he conciously let him die, or if he was to distracted by seeing ghosts.

Just realized the Azbats and Batman Inc suits both have built in bat signals. I love that, even if Spider-Man did it first.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2017 20:50

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

The latest Batman was also a reversal of Knightfall. Batman lets out all his rogues to fight Bane, who is breaking into Arkham.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 14:34

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Yeah. The issue ruled, and I really didn't mind Finch this time around. Tom King writes a really great Batman without trying to reinvent the wheel, or go into a deep look at the thematic and cultural roots of the wheel starting from the Paleolithic age.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 02:33

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Arkham Asylum is heavily influenced by Alice in Wonderland, so it has a dream like quality as Batman moves from scene to scene. It's an interesting character study of Batman, his villains, and the asylum itself.

It's also where the Arkham Journals in the Arkham Asylum game is from.

# ¿ May 12, 2017 00:52

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Everyone should buy the latest issue of Batman. It's a one shot with Swamp Thing, and it's one of my favorite single issues I've read in a while. I hope someone posts the page where they're in the Batmobile.

# ¿ May 18, 2017 19:05

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

That is exactly what Tom King said they represent. We're probably going to get some wild page layouts eventually.

# ¿ May 19, 2017 18:23

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

I skipped Snyder's run after Morrison took me to the limit. Coming back with Tom King's Batman, Detective, and All Star I can't be happier to have taken a few years off to recharge my atomic batteries to power and turbines to speed.

Speaking of: Holy poo poo! Batman 66 Legion of Super Heroes is a must read.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 06:36

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

pubic works project posted:

I really liked this story. I thought that the fact that Batman was about to kill the Riddler being the thing that makes Joker laugh again was fitting.

So good. I know there was some action in the story, but it was all about the dialogue. Tom King is a master of his craft. Anybody have a picture of him in his underwear? I need a new avatar.

# ¿ Oct 6, 2017 07:04

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Rightio. I'm reading it all in trade (mostly the big hardcover ones) and was trying to work out what I needed to get.

Isn't Night of the Monster Men it's own trade?

# ¿ Nov 2, 2017 17:29

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Ah. That's kind of lovely. It's a fun story, but you don't have to feel like you're missing anything huge if you skip it. Kind of like Morrison's Batman and the Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul crossover.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2017 02:10

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Tom King really swings for the Eisners when he writes for a Batman Annual. I really love his Batman/Catwoman romance. The best before this was probably Hush.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 20:36

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Does that first trade cover the Club of Heroes stuff?

# ¿ Dec 2, 2017 02:13

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

And I love the story more because of Catwoman's comment in the latest issue. These last two issues of Batman are a must read for anyone that's a fan of the Superman/Batman dynamic.

# ¿ Dec 21, 2017 20:20

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

It's because Catwoman is actually the main character now.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2017 05:47

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

OscarDiggs posted:

Thanks a lot, that does clear up a lot of my questions about where to start; that was a pretty large road block in it's own right. As an aside, it likely won't matter for a while but when I'm finished with your suggestions, will that leave me up to speed with the "Modern" stuff, or is most of this stuff out of date with canon? I may not read comics but I know reboots and what have you are a thing.

Okay sure. I have no problem with that. Might take a bit since I'm mostly cashed out what with Christmas just happening. But I'll definitely check in with the thread with how things go.

Don�t be afraid to google a story to see what the art and the dialogue looks like. There�s a Batman story for everybody.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2017 02:49

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

I won�t defend it, but boy do I love Loeb�s Superman/Batman. Even the Supergirl arc. Came out right when I was getting into going to the comic shop every week. That and Johns Teen Titans were my jams as a teen.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 04:54

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Lick! The! Whisk! posted:

I mean I love The Rock, but even beyond that there's a lot of things in TLH that are just nonsensical. Why does like every single one of Batman's villains show up in it? And no, "because it takes place over a year and also the story is about how Gotham went from supercrime to supervillain crime" doesn't really count. That's the excuse Jeph Loeb uses to add the Joker and Poison Ivy and Scarecrow and the Riddler and Solomon Grundy into it, but it's not like the story is strengthened by their inclusion. If it had, like, the Riddler in it, and Calendar Man as the sort of point of reference Batman uses in Arkham, and was otherwise a story about the creation of Two-Face intercut with the Holiday story, the comic is a lot cleaner and more coherent, and imparts the same overall idea. Hell, the idea of it being a Two-Face origin story more or less completely gets across it being a story about the change from organized crime to supervillainy. But all that other poo poo is just crowbarred in there, well, just cause.

Honestly Jeph Loeb is the progenitor for the Rocksteady Batman games, which we can all agree are just...just loving terrible Batman stories. Just the absolute worst. They're fun, especially in the moment, but jeezer creezer do they take Loeb's kitchen sink approach to Batman storytelling and just turn every dial to 11.

Sometimes I just want a pizza with all the toppings.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 05:41

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Edge & Christian posted:

Back in the late 1990s when Long Halloween/Dark Victory were coming out, DC and Marvel had a working arrangement to do a number of cross-company books. Loeb's big money idea was to do two twelve issue mini-series, one that was "a murder mystery with Spider-Man vs. all of Batman's villains" and another that was "a murder mystery with Batman vs. all of Spider-Man's villains" because that is more or less the only idea that he has.

You're trying to make it sound like it wouldn't have been awesome. It would have been awesome. Spidey would be able to easily take on Batman's villains in a fist fight, but things are never that simple. Batman taking down Spider-Man's rogues in clever ways would be fun, and I'm sure he'd have a great rivalry with Norman Osborn in and out of costume.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 19:31

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Lick! The! Whisk! posted:

Spider-Man v. Batman rogues sounds awesome in an extremely dumb way (Batman v. Spidey rogues seems Extremely Bad, largely because Spider-Man works in basically any situation you put him in but Batman only really functions in a world that accommodates Batman. By that, I mean Batman has to fight The Worst People Ever and still win, and a lot of his stories are built around the idea that him and the people within his employ are the only ones able to prevent Gotham from turning into even more of a shithole than it already is. There's obviously stories with him not in Gotham (notably most-to-all JL stories) but a story of him fighting like the Vulture in Earth-616 don't seem to really work because it ignores that Spidey doesn't get help mostly because Spider-Man's villains don't really rate. Most of them are total losers (in much the same way Spider-Man is kind of a total loser), they're mostly all B-list or worse, and a LOT of them are sympathetic and most of them are empathetic. In contrast, again, Batman's villains are the Worst People Ever, and he's the only one who can effectively fight them because of the way that Gotham is structured, neither of which are problems present in Marvel's Manhattan.)

It also helps that Spidey is basically the most flexible hero probably of all time, so he can fight anyone, basically, and it's believable that he would. In contrast I would argue that Batman is almost as flexible but there's a sense of him being an overt, in-world A-lister (especially how DC's heroes are painted more as gods who walk among us, which Bruce partially dodges but not completely) and he'd be slumming it fighting the fuckin' Hobgoblin or some poo poo. You can see this especially whenever there's a story where the Big Bad is some Z-list Batman villain and the conceit of the story is "Z-list Batman villain decides to tire Batman out by sending in the Real Threats and getting the killshot on Batman".

Either way yeah it's indicative of Jeph Loeb's complete inability to write more than one story. But, gently caress, Spider-Man fighting like Clayface and The Penguin loving sounds cool.

This post makes no sense at all. You can easily take any of Spider-Man's villains and make a good Batman story with them. Their universe and city being different isn't an excuse at all.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2017 20:56

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Morrison's first DC work were prose stories in Batman and Superman annuals.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2018 05:44

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Around Seven Soldiers, DC was using Grant's notes to come up with stuff like that Metal Men mini with Copper, Ryan Choi as the Atom, and the Alpha Lanterns.

Also, I'm pretty sure Tomasi was his editor on Batman, and wasn't going to tell him he couldn't do a lovely prose issue with poser art. New 52 did a lot of damage to the legacy of Grant's run, but at the time it felt like Batman was never going to be the same. At least we got Damian out of it. Shame about Batman Inc, and Dick as Batman.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2018 09:40

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Teenage Fansub posted:

I dunno how much damage is done between Inc series' when it's read in isolation. It'd be interesting to see if someone who'd only been reading the saga right through really notices or minds that it's suddenly just a Batman and Robin story.

Maybe in the new omnibuses they can leave a text box at the end of Leviathan Strikes going: "Also Batman was so sad about Jezebel Jett's decapitated head that he told everyone to go home, including his Batman robots. This is a job for Batman (Bruce, that is) and Robin!"

I just miss the Batman Inc characters. El Gaucho, Batman Japan, and Cass Cain in a costume with a bat on it.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2018 16:04

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

The Jason Todd fake out in Hush got a lot of people ready for a real return.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2018 08:09

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

Teenage Fansub posted:

It's a decade long run over several titles.
It starts here: https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Son-New-Grant-Morrison/dp/1401244025

But DC are going to start collecting the whole thing in a series of omnibuses later this year, which will be much easier to follow.
https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Grant-Morrison-Omnibus-Vol/dp/1401282997
They'll be giant and hardcover though, so maybe just read the first trade to see if you're interested in going further.

B&R and Batman Inc were already made into Absolutes.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2018 11:19

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

I never read the Black Casebook, and don't really feel like I missed anything. You don't need to know about the Batman of Zur En Arrh to understand the new iteration.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2018 01:28

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 12:04

Open Marriage Night: Sep 18, 2009; "Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

It's not great, but it's not bad. Death Ray nails it. I've read almost every issue, but some of the issues are the first comics I've ever read, so, I'm biased.

It's almost better just to get a handful of issues from it. Knightfall and Knightquest can be cherry picked, but Knightsend is one continuous story.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2018 10:09

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