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Thundercracker posted:Eh, I totally believe it. My wife teaches in the Bronx, and there are literally people who never venture south of 125th st. It's a real thing for people to be rooted so firmly in their comfort zone no matter how ridiculous it looks. I believe it, but I don't believe it is because there are some type of great physical barriers. Its a cultural barrier. The entire "rural America" thing is kind of this contrived cultural chauvinism. Like, I've been places in Montana where it was literally 100 miles between gas stations, and its just hard to process "I feel isolated in rural America because I would have to drive 45 minutes to get to a city of a million people where I can study anything and get a job in any field"
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Oct 13, 2016 05:03
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Some people who are voting for trump are good people. Good simple folk who just don't know anything at all
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Oct 13, 2016 05:32
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glowing-fish posted:I had a serious thread about this in main D&D but luckily I can post about it here without making totally structure arguments. Being three hours from the nearest city is much more similar to being eight hours from the nearest city than it is to being thirty minutes from the nearest city, and the endless lineup of idiotic pedants saying "how can that series of farms next to a bunch of dirt roads possibly be rural, it's not even three hundred miles from the nearest meaningful population center" is really annoying Like, I know there's some really remote shitholes out there but an area doesn't have to be as isolated as northern Alaska to be rural. Nothing in the definition of "rural" implies having to cross the motherfucking Misty Mountains to get to a city
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Oct 16, 2016 04:21
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Main Paineframe posted:Being three hours from the nearest city is much more similar to being eight hours from the nearest city than it is to being thirty minutes from the nearest city, and the endless lineup of idiotic pedants saying "how can that series of farms next to a bunch of dirt roads possibly be rural, it's not even three hundred miles from the nearest meaningful population center" is really annoying The guy is from a loving suburb.
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Oct 16, 2016 06:05
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I grew up in the same ohio town he talks about (Middletown). It's not a suburb of Cincinnati, it's not even in the same county. it's own little island of terrible. When he says he's never encountered anything as sophisticated as sparkling water I don't doubt his story a second. Middletown is about as sophisticated as an upscale trailer park. Nothing about what I've heard of his story strikes me as unbelievable. I've seen much of what he talks about with my own eyes. I still have no idea what sparkling water tastes like. MaliciousBiz has issued a correction as of 10:52 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 10:31
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glowing-fish posted:Like, there is nowhere in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Ohio etc. where you are more than three hours from a major metropolis. And there are no major physical barriers: there are no mountain ranges where it snows from October to May. Those hills are like 1000 feet tall, and covered with major highways and freeways. The town he and I grew up in (Middletown, Ohio) is not so affectionately referred to as "Middletucky". That's because a good portion of it's residents are no more than a generation removed from straightup hillbillies. I can assure you that many of the people that live there are very much redneck in nature.
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Oct 16, 2016 11:43
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MaliciousBiz posted:I still have no idea what sparkling water tastes like. Bubbly water. You're not missing anything.
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Oct 16, 2016 14:43
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MaliciousBiz posted:I grew up in the same ohio town he talks about (Middletown). It's not a suburb of Cincinnati, it's not even in the same county. it's own little island of terrible. When he says he's never encountered anything as sophisticated as sparkling water I don't doubt his story a second. Middletown is about as sophisticated as an upscale trailer park. You don't have to be in the same county to be a suburb, look at Atlanta for christ's sake.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:46
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Peanut President posted:You don't have to be in the same county to be a suburb, look at Atlanta for christ's sake. Suburb of implies a connection to. Wouldn't you agree? Saying that Middletown is a suburb of Cincinnati is much like saying Macon is a suburb of Atlanta. THere's a whole lot of nothing in between all of them. Side note: anyone remember touchdown Jesus?  This was just a couple of minutes drive away from Middletown. lol MaliciousBiz has issued a correction as of 17:03 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 16:58
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if you're close enough to a major metropolitan area that you can commute to work every day in the city within 30-45 minutes, you're probably living in a suburb there are rural areas in Ohio, middletown is not one of them
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Oct 16, 2016 17:21
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Mirthless posted:if you're close enough to a major metropolitan area that you can commute to work every day in the city within 30-45 minutes, you're probably living in a suburb MaliciousBiz has issued a correction as of 17:35 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 17:28
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MaliciousBiz posted:Agree to disagree? Middletown is worlds apart from Cincinnati. It takes nearly an hour to drive from middletown to downtown cincinnati. All of this is besides the point because his claims to "Hyuck Hyuck imma country boy" is based in the fact that is family is from Jackson, Kentucky. Which is deeply rural by anyone's measure. It's not "worlds apart" if it's generally accepted in the community that you can go to cincinnati (or dayton, lol) and get a job at any time People in my hometown (about 45m away from Detroit) had the same half-a-hick-town chip on their shoulder but 6 out of 10 people were getting on the expressway to the Detroit metro area every day. All these towns were rural about 30 or 40 years ago, but white flight plumped them up. They have multiple chain grocery stores, their own wal-mart, entertainment, multiple restaurants, and anything they don't have in immediate arm's reach is probably less than a thirty minute drive - Cincinnati is a big city, and it starts a lot further out than downtown. Rural towns are about lack of access. They're too far away from a major city for it to be practical to commute for daily business. Those are the towns where it's hard to escape and you aren't exposed to the wide range of amenities city life offers. I know Middletown has a Meijer. I've shopped at a Meijer before. I know they have a wide range of high quality wines, and one of the best stocked international sections in the entire grocery store industry. I know they have a store brand of sparkling water. I know they've had these for at least the last fifteen years! You want to see a rural town, go someplace where the only grocery store is also the only pizza place, and only gas station within 30 miles. A rural town would be a town whose residents have to drive thirty minutes to get to their job at the Wal-Mart in Middletown, because they can't afford to drive 90 minutes to Cincinatti. Jackson, KY is granted a super rural town though but I don't think he spent any significant portion of his life there. Mirthless has issued a correction as of 17:55 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 17:43
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Mirthless posted:It's not "worlds apart" if it's generally accepted in the community that you can go to cincinnati (or dayton, lol) and get a job at any time I lived there for 16 years in the same time frame that JD vance was there and knew no one that commuted to either for work. It simply didn't happen outside of maybe a very small subset of people. Culturally, economically, and distance, It's a very disconnected and dying place. http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000 See number 10. MaliciousBiz has issued a correction as of 17:56 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 17:53
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MaliciousBiz posted:I lived there for 16 years in the same time frame that JD vance was there and knew no one that commuted to either for work. It simply didn't happen outside of maybe a very small subset of people. Culturally, economically, and distance, It's a very disconnected place. yeah I guess the town of 50,000 people with it's own mall and multiple competing chain grocery stores has plenty of work inside the town itself i suppose
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Oct 16, 2016 17:56
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this is a really dumb argument to be in when the point isn't literally where he's from but rather his gross rear end ~noble savage~ like treatment of the rural poor while trying to push the focus on himself and his Brave Journey To Try Sparkling Water.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:04
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Mirthless posted:yeah I guess the town of 50,000 people with it's own mall and multiple competing chain grocery stores has plenty of work inside the town itself i suppose Last time I was there a couple of years ago, all of that was nearly a ghost town. The mall had like 3 small shops and old people using it as a walking track.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:13
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Mirthless posted:if you're close enough to a major metropolitan area that you can commute to work every day in the city within 30-45 minutes, you're probably living in a suburb This is just not true. I've lived in suburbs and I've lived in rural areas and you can't compare the two. A small town down dirt roads 45 minutes away from a major city is not a suburb.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:22
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The Kingfish posted:This is just not true. I've lived in suburbs and I've lived in rural areas and you can't compare the two. A small town down dirt roads 45 minutes away from a major city is not a suburb. Yeah, but Middletown isn't one of those towns, it's right along a major interstate. Tatum Girlparts posted:this is a really dumb argument to be in when the point isn't literally where he's from but rather his gross rear end ~noble savage~ like treatment of the rural poor while trying to push the focus on himself and his Brave Journey To Try Sparkling Water. This is true
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Oct 16, 2016 18:30
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Just sayin'
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Oct 16, 2016 18:31
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Please, in your rejection of Hillbilly-chic, do not try to erase the rural poor and the suffering they face. It's bad enough that there's entire industries that are committed to pretending that rich and well educated performers are actually rural poor, they don't need people thinking they're non-existent or not worth helping.
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Oct 16, 2016 18:31
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Mirthless posted:Yeah, but Middletown isn't one of those towns, it's right along a major interstate. No one would seriously argue that Middletown is rural but I would most definitely argue that it's culture is deeply rooted in rural Hillbillyness. They don't call the place Middletucky for no reason. Here's a vine shot at some sort of jamboree downtown that I think speaks for itself https://vine.co/v/MtjxD7qilLi
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Oct 16, 2016 18:34
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Mirthless posted:Yeah, but Middletown isn't one of those towns, it's right along a major interstate. There's a reason it's called flyover country
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Oct 16, 2016 19:57
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it's because of the flyovers
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Oct 16, 2016 19:57
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Tatum Girlparts posted:this is a really dumb argument to be in when the point isn't literally where he's from but rather his gross rear end ~noble savage~ like treatment of the rural poor while trying to push the focus on himself and his Brave Journey To Try Sparkling Water. He calls the poor lazy and then says "no it's ok I'm a redneck white trash hillbilly from the deep south y'all I can say the poor deserve to die from diseases cured 100 years ago". Pointing out he's some dumbfuck suburbanite yankee from Ohio is absolutely correct. He is George W Bush reincarnated.
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Oct 16, 2016 20:36
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Peanut President posted:He calls the poor lazy and then says "no it's ok I'm a redneck white trash hillbilly from the deep south y'all I can say the poor deserve to die from diseases cured 100 years ago". Pointing out he's some dumbfuck suburbanite yankee from Ohio is absolutely correct. He is George W Bush reincarnated. I admittedly haven't read the book but something tells me your assertions are less than charitable. I can tell you from direct experience (He and I have had a very similar life experience, right now to the rural kentucky roots and familial drug and alcohol problems) that just because he's a transplant to Middletown doesn't mean that he found himself in some haven of cultural enrichment. Jackson kentucky and Middletown ohio are pretty much culturally on par with each other and virtually the only difference is the level of economic development. Comparing him to Dubya is loving absurd. MaliciousBiz has issued a correction as of 20:55 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 20:53
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MaliciousBiz posted:I admittedly haven't read the book but something tells me your assertions are less than charitable. I can tell you from direct experience (He and I have had a very similar life experience, right now to the rural kentucky roots and familial drug and alcohol problems) that just because he's a transplant to Middletown doesn't mean that he found himself in some haven of cultural enrichment. Jackson kentucky and Middletown ohio are pretty much culturally on par with each other and virtually the only difference is the level of economic development. Comparing him to Dubya is loving absurd. The 'never encountered sparkling water' thing comes after he got a BA at OSU, was in the marines, and was at Yale for a year. Sparkling water also isn't culture. And him thinking that sparkling was just marketing speak is absurd. There are towns that are near cities that savagely embrace a hillbilly mentality and are very inward-facing, but they still can't escape exposure to that reality, even just through ads in TV and in magazines. I grew up in a weird town that was rural but near a big state university, and plenty of people there affected a 'gently caress your book-learnin' attitude and pretended to not grasp elements of 'refined' culture but it was play-acting. That's what this sounds like to me on his part. It's not even that he's a fake suburbanite: there's no part of this deal that holds up.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:32
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The Kingfish posted:This is just not true. I've lived in suburbs and I've lived in rural areas and you can't compare the two. A small town down dirt roads 45 minutes away from a major city is not a suburb. Nor is it where I live, where driving two hours to the local "city" (pop. ~8,000) to shop at a Walmart or get a latte from the Safeway Starbucks is a daytrip to look forward to. There's rural and then there's remote.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:44
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fwiw I grew up in rural Kentucky and I didn't realize what sparkling water was until... I dunno, handful of years ago? I think we'd have called it mineral water though.
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Oct 17, 2016 15:02
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Obdicut posted:The 'never encountered sparkling water' thing comes after he got a BA at OSU, was in the marines, and was at Yale for a year. Sparkling water also isn't culture. And him thinking that sparkling was just marketing speak is absurd. Exactly! The entire "rural" thing is an affectation. The entire "pick-up trucks, barbecues and guns" thing isn't because its all that people know and these things arrive naturally from their lives, its that it is meant specifically to "piss liberals off". I mean, I am not saying that people don't like pick-up trucks and barbecues, but the entire emphasis on it seems to be so contrarian. Like Farmers Only...what percentage of people who are using a site like that are actually farmers? I think 1-2% of the US population is employed in agriculture, and there aren't many places in the US where agriculture is the main employer. I lived in Montana, and for the most part, farming or ranching was either a part time thing or an expensive hobby. I mean, growing your own food can be fun, but when someone is buying an expensive pick-up truck so they can commute to their job as a clerk at a hardware store, that is affectation.
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Oct 17, 2016 17:57
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hey some of us just wanna roll in the hay
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Oct 17, 2016 23:35
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I have a running theory that idiots from out side the South make a bigger deal about southern culture than actual southerners do. Like I grew up in Georgia with no real accent and when I left there was no real difference between the lovely city of 60000 I grew up in and anywhere else, but when I told people where I grew up they suddenly heard a folksey accent.
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Oct 19, 2016 19:33
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Post election reminder that no, really, J.D. Vance is full of poo poo. The poor can be and frequently are as worldly as city folk. Don't pander to them and lament the death of an America that never existed.
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Nov 9, 2016 23:33
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Relin posted:my friend who grew up in the midwest didnt know how sweet tea was different from sweetened tea IRL NY Suburbs boy guess: is it that the amounts of sugar and ice are inverted? Because based on how I hear people talk about it...
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Nov 11, 2016 01:55
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MRA PUA Tay-Tay Fan posted:IRL NY Suburbs boy guess: is it that the amounts of sugar and ice are inverted? The sugar is dissolved before cooling the tea so it will be saturated with sugar beyond levels that are possible when the tea is cold or cooling.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:28
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I have to fake a Central Valley accent when I talk to non hillbillies because they either think I'm trisomal (not far off there) or I'm pretending the be a southerner
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Nov 14, 2016 08:50
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Please stop suppressing my glorious California mountain culture where the only difference is everyone says reckon and y'all
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Nov 14, 2016 08:50
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glowing-fish posted:Exactly! The entire "rural" thing is an affectation. The entire "pick-up trucks, barbecues and guns" thing isn't because its all that people know and these things arrive naturally from their lives, its that it is meant specifically to "piss liberals off". I mean, I am not saying that people don't like pick-up trucks and barbecues, but the entire emphasis on it seems to be so contrarian. look at this dumb poo poo
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Nov 14, 2016 08:52
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I wonder how many of you people actually read the book? He makes it pretty clear that he grew up with the typical underclass shattered family + drug addiction problems all around him. I live in the Central Valley in CA and let me tell you that, although Silicon Valley is two hours away, there aren't many tech bros whose mother has a meth habit. Also this kind of thing: Exactly! The entire "urban" thing is an affectation. The entire "Escalade, barbecues and guns" thing isn't because its all that people know and these things arrive naturally from their lives, its that it is meant specifically to "piss rural America off". I mean, I am not saying that people don't like Escalades and barbecues, but the entire emphasis on it seems to be so contrarian. Exactly! The entire "coastal liberal" thing is an affectation. The entire "Volvo, vegan and anti-guns" thing isn't because its all that people know and these things arrive naturally from their lives, its that it is meant specifically to "piss Rural America off". I mean, I am not saying that people don't like Volvos and vegan, but the entire emphasis on it seems to be so contrarian. is dumb.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:29
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Vox Nihili posted:The forwards talk about the rage and disaffection of "America's working-class whites," but somehow we're going to some Yale Law grad for this poo poo? Lmao. no poo poo, better eduacated people tend to write better books. Like even Marxism was written by a bunch of eggheads and not guys who actually worked in factories
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Nov 14, 2016 21:44
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Sarah Jones knows that J.D. Vance is full of poo poo: https://newrepublic.com/article/138717/jd-vance-false-prophet-blue-america quote:Elegy is little more than a list of myths about welfare queens repackaged as a primer on the white working class. Vance’s central argument is that hillbillies themselves are to blame for their troubles. “Our religion has changed,” he laments, to a version “heavy on emotional rhetoric” and “light on the kind of social support” that he needed as a child. He also faults “a peculiar crisis of masculinity.” This brave new world, in sore need of that old time religion and manly men, is apparently to blame for everything from his mother’s drug addiction to the region’s economic crisis.
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Nov 20, 2016 22:14
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