|
I think Maria's name thing might be a hint as Kinzo wanted Rosa to name her something else. I would not be shocked if he disliked her just because of the fact Maria's name relates to the riddle he made.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 03:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 21:41 |
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I think Maria's name thing might be a hint as Kinzo wanted Rosa to name her something else. I would not be shocked if he disliked her just because of the fact Maria's name relates to the riddle he made. Yeah. So we might be looking for someone else with the 里 kanji in their name. Actually, looking at it, they explicitly say Maria's the only one, don't they? curiousCat posted:Beatrice is the golden witch, so it's possible that the Gold refers to her? If so, surely that would just be the mansion at the start of this episode? Unless she has another home we don't know about. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
Alternatively, "the home of the gold" could be extremely literal: where the gold is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 03:52
|
|
|
I kinda get the feeling that 'putting the witch to rest' is referring to putting aside the witch legend version of Beatrice that everyone has been living under for decades. If they can solve the epitaph, than they can put this bad family memory all in the past, and Kinzo will be forced to as well. Kinzo: Fine! I'll stop talking about witches all the time when you're around! Happy?! ... sob sob Beatoriche....
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 06:30
|
|
|
If you're counting Japanese syllables, keep in mind that they count based on the hiragana, not really on the sounds. So Rokkenjima would have one more syllable of that double k is based on a tsu, I believe. Tbf it's been a long time since I studied the language. I'm pretty sure the key is also a person rather than an object or code. Knowingly or not, whoever the key is is the person choosing the first six victims. I think that person is probably a child, though maybe not Maria. Still, she does get the witch's letter first... I feel like we need more details about Kinzo before this can reasonably be solved but the speculation is very good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 07:08
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:2. What does the extra character in the last repetition of the Golden Land mean? If it really translates to "no", I usually see that meaning "belonging to X", but I'm just working from random anime tidbits here. Does anyone know if there's more to it? の does denote the genitive (possessive) case, yes, but with some words there's a bit more than that to its translation. Japanese has something that's called adjectival nouns which, as the name suggests, are technically nouns that act like adjectives and are usually translated as such in other languages. Examples: nihon no kuruma, Japanese car; midori no ie, green house. Turning 黄金郷 (ougonkyou) into 黄金の郷 (ougon no sato) doesn't necessarily change the entire meaning, just the reading of the kanji 郷. Well, not that it doesn't affect it at all. For a very, very overly literal example, ougonkyou could maybe be translated as "goldcountry" while ougon no sato could slightly more accurately be "golden village". "Golden Land" would be a perfectly fine translation for both, however. ...I say this like I'm an expert on Japanese but that's not the case at all. I don't think I'm entirely wrong here but I can't assure you I'm not. tiistai fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 10:19
|
|
|
tiistai posted:...I say this like I'm an expert on Japanese but that's not the case at all. I don't think I'm entirely wrong here but I can't assure you I'm not. That looks right to me. (Not that I'm an expert either, but I do speak it  )
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 11:38
|
|
|
A thought that struck me when I was re-reading the update: how would Beatrice's name look if it got crammed into Kanji, Ushiromiya-style? In Maria's name the kanji for sato they mentionned seems to stand in for "ri", is there a possibility it would also be used there?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 12:49
|
|
|
Aumanor posted:A thought that struck me when I was re-reading the update: how would Beatrice's name look if it got crammed into Kanji, Ushiromiya-style? In Maria's name the kanji for sato they mentionned seems to stand in for "ri", is there a possibility it would also be used there? It just doesn't work that way. Even if you could come up with a way to spell "Beatoriiche" in kanji there's probably a few dozen other ways to do it too. You don't necessarily even have to use correct-sounding kanji for a name. Battler, for example, is spelled with the kanji for battle-person and there's obviously no way you could ever pronounce those kanji as Batora. Names like that are, in real life, as ridiculous as it sounds but this is the Ushiromiya family after all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 13:32
|
|
|
 BGM: Organ Short #200 Million in C Minor  "Oh? What is boring...?" "...Boring, boring." "My, my. What on earth is this child grumbling about?" "She's probably annoyed by all the tips you gave Battler-sama, Madam." "...Nooot really. That doesn't annoy me. On the contrary, I'm happy to see that useless Battler finally reach a level where he can match me." "Hohohoh... Did Battler-kun and I get a little too close? Perhaps us old fogeys had best leave you young'uns alone." "Pu ku ku ku ku..."When Virgilia and Ronove giggled and cackled, Beatrice's irritation meter finally reached its limit.  "Gaah, enough with everyone laughing at me! Ronove, vanish for a while! Disappear, disappeeear!" "Certainly. Then I shall rest for the time being. Pukukukuku..."Ronove bowed his head, still laughing, and vanished. After that, all that remained was the grumpy and irritated figure of Beatrice...and Virgilia, who was cooly enjoying her tea.   "...I knew it... I did have this feeling it might be a bit too early... I suppose that was right after all, wasn't it?" "If you had led him further astray first, things might have been different, but as it was, that trump card was a real waste. You ended up rousing him instead."In addition to denying the witch, Battler had possessed a second victory condition, one of explaining everything without suspecting one of the 18. It was at that point, when he'd been tossed about by two opposing goals, that his heart should have been at its weakest. However, Beatrice had used the red carelessly, proclaiming that there were no more than 18 people. Because of that, Battler had been forced to suspect one of the 18, and he had finally begun to build up the resolve he needed to accept that. Battler was stubborn, but that was exactly why fissures would run all through him, like breaking china, when he was struck in a fragile spot. That itself should have been his greatest weak point, but...  "Yes, you were too careless. The last game was a difficult one for Battler-kun, but it seems this game will become a difficult one for you." "...A broken vase will never return to its original form. So, it would be more constructive to think of a next move, rather than regretfully picking up the pieces. However, now that Battler has figured out as much as he has, how should I plot against him...?" "Hohohoh. Your troubled face is an even better snack than Ronove's cookies." "...Uu-. You and Battler... and even Ronove are treating me like sweets now. Even though I'm not sweet at all."With a shameful, childlike face that she would never have shown in front of Battler, Beatrice rolled her head around on top of the table.  "...Teacheeer. At least gimme a hiiint." "Oh? What kind of hint?" "If you know some really good move that'll leave Battler speechless and make him wanna accept me... I won't ask you to say it outright, so, umm, even if it's just a hint..." "Hohohoh, I can't. I am on Battler-kun's side right now, so I couldn't teach you something that would give you an advantage." "...C'mon, don't be so stingy... Your disciple's in trouble, right...?" "I seem to remember you brazenly boasting that you had surpassed your teacher." "...Uu-... Please act like an old person and gimme just a bit of your crafty ideas... Pleease... It's mean if you only help Battleeer..." "My, my. You're still a spoiled child... But, it's true that I may have given Battler-kun a few too many hints. It did serve as a scolding to you, but perhaps it was a little too much support for a fair game." "Isn't that right, isn't that right...? Please, Teacheeer, at least just a hint now..." "...This is only a hint. Think about what it means by yourself, okay?" "Yeah, yeah! I'll think about it myself, so please! Please, gimme one that'll leave Battler down in the dumps, Teacher."Considering how she acted like a great and mighty witch in front of Battler, the way she acted when he wasn't around was truly pathetic. Virgilia sighed at how childish Beato still was, despite all the time that had passed.  BGM: As Time Goes By "Of course. It's a story about how the north wind and the sun challenge each other to see who can steal the cloak off a traveler, right?" "That's right. Violent, impatient methods aren't necessarily the best decisions in all cases." "...You don't have to tell me that. I've already reflected on the mistakes I made when I was too anxious to achieve victory." "...Think well about what this means. And furthermore, there's one point that Battler seems to be misunderstanding a bit, but he isn't the only one. Do you understand the victory conditions of this game?" "...What else is there, other than making Battler surrender?" "...See? You're already wrong there." "How am I wrong?" "...What's this? You want me to butter him up, begging him to accept me as a witch?! How foolish! I haven't sunk that low!"Grrrrrrrrrrr... Beato growled like a dog in a bad mood. Virgilia shrugged her shoulders, snickering at her disciple, who was as short-tempered as ever... "That is my hint. For the rest, you'll have to consider deeply on your own. In any event, your moves up until now will not work on Battler-kun. A significant tactical adjustment will probably be required." "...I don't need you to tell me that. I don't have a clue what you mean by the North Wind and the Sun, but at any rate, I realize I'll have to alter my course. I'll introduce a scheme clever enough to surprise even you, Teacher...!" "Hohoho... I look forward to it. I wonder how Battler-kun will tackle that. I wish you good luck as well." "After Battler, you mean? Hmm..." BGM: Haruka ...As my mind grew vague and I pretended to fight my drowsiness, while sinking deeper and deeper into the sofa, 'I' scolded myself.  "...You also dreamed about stealing the position of Family Head from Krauss, right...? Even though my magic's given you a chance, are you already throwing it away...?"You could say that, but... This riddle is really hard. Even a wire puzzle would be better. At least in that case, you know for sure that it's solvable. But in the case of this epitaph riddle, we've been given no reason to be sure of that. I might just be fighting a useless battle. ...Still hazy, I looked at the notebook I'd been holding the whole time. It was opened to a page with the epitaph, which I must've stared at hard enough to burn holes in it on so many hundreds of nights, I'd lost count.  On the other side lies the 'Golden Land', the place I've wanted to drag myself to no matter the effort ever since I was a child... and the place I was never able to reach. Am I touching the door with both hands, with the book... no, the door right there in front of me, ready to be opened, and yet still unable to reach the other side? "...That's right. Your hand is already on the door. Come on, open it with all your strength. And read the characters written on the door." Strain your eyes. See through to the thing beyond the epitaph written in the notebook...  That's right... Then what about the 'sweetfish river'? There are several rivers where they swim, and there's reason to doubt that this just refers to one close to the place Father lived. If we take out a map and start calculating which rivers with sweetfish were closest, things will quickly get vague and we won't be able to narrow it down...  "Didn't you say it yourself? You said it didn't have to be a river with water flowing down it. If the word sweetfish is too complicated, why not forget it...?" "Think of a river. A river. Linking it with a 'family tree' wasn't a bad idea. Try thinking about how to link a river with something else along those lines..."...It isn't a river? But where else could sweetfish swim? Oh, but if we're talking about places sweetfish can swim, then maybe the ocean has something to do with this... Didn't my husband even say that they go out into the ocean, even though they're river fish...?  BGM: Rhythm-changer  "...Did you notice? But that's just a faint memory. There's supposed to be a room for storing books in this building, right? If you investigate, you can make sure."...If that's the 'sweetfish river'... And if the key might be a six character word... Then could the key actually be resting in that river? I-I don't know, I don't know. Anyway, I have to search in an atlas... But, even if I know that, I don't know 'from what' I should take the six characters... "...You really don't know? Think deeply. We're pretty smart, so our ideas are solid." "Don't think of it like it's something as massive as the riddle of the epitaph, but like it's a child's riddle. Men are always children, no matter how old they get. Even if Father has advanced into old age, that doesn't change the fact that he's essentially a child at heart." "...Throw away your awe of Father. Think of this like it's a worthless, infantile game with riddles, like the ones Maria suddenly brought out on the boat."...Riddles. Worthless, infantile... Huh... ah. I'm sure that was... what was it... umm, umm... I'm sure, if my memory isn't wrong, that it's probably the case, umm... No, I don't have to rely on my vague memory. I should be able to figure that out immediately by searching the library. "...We've probably already noticed the answer. All that's left is to investigate whether it's correct or not. Come on, Eva. Let's go to the library, making sure no one sees us. There, we should find a mountain of thick books that didn't fit in Father's study. I'm sure we'll find a book that answers our question. Quickly. This is the first and last chance we'll ever get to make our dreams come true."  "...I'm sorry. It looks like I woke you." "...Eva, if you're sleepy, don't overdo it. You rest first." "...Th-Thank you. I'm just going to the bathroom for a bit to wash my face." "You should take it easy and rest. You're just gonna make yourself feel worse, you know?" "I told you I'm fine! I'll be right back."After leaving only those words behind, I rapidly left the lobby. The lobby was partitioned off by a door, so as soon as I went into the corridor, they could no longer see me.  Father always owned a vast book collection, but ever since he started to become engrossed with his occult hobby, that collection grew even larger, so that the normal books suitable for a normal study had been forced out as his study overflowed. This so-called library was mostly used as a storage room for those normal books. They were all thick, like complete encyclopedias for intellectuals, but that was very convenient for me, now that I was investigating something. I entered softly, and just in case, I checked the room with my gun readied, making sure that there were no suspicious people there. Then I locked it from the inside. I actually wasn't thinking that the murderer might be hiding somewhere. What scared me was the thought that one of my siblings might hear what I was investigating. My heart had started racing before I realized it... I was half-asleep just a moment ago, so I didn't realize how significant this thing I noticed was. But as I gradually became aware, my heart started to feel like it was about to explode.  I don't think Krauss and Rudolf will notice. But I don't know about Kyrie. She has extraordinarily good intuition. And I don't know about Rosa either.  "Rosa's stupid too. She always has been, incredibly so."Really...? I'd say she was wise enough to make you think she was stupid, so that she didn't earn herself unnecessary malice.  "...Here it is. I wonder if we'll find it in this one."I pulled the book out and flipped through the pages...  I see... This is what the sweetfish river means. Don't dawdle around, research further.  Why have you stopped thinking?! Oh, is this too much work for you? If only you'd just give up... If only you'd just hand the Ushiromiya Headship over to Kyrie...!  ...In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of. 岸 means shore. Get it? "Uu, *gulp*... I-I-I understand...! 'Shore'... 'shore'...!"Right before my eyes, the pieces that I hadn't been able to understand at all... began to *snap*... *snap*... into place, all by themselves... I couldn't even remember to close my open mouth. My throat grew completely dry...  "...But this isn't six characters at all. I'm absolutely sure this is the answer, but this doesn't reach six characters at all...!"Did you stop thinking again? In that case, think of a way you could read it with six characters. If you can't think of one, then research it. There has to be an answer. You must not doubt that. Is believing in that too much for you? If only you'd just cry yourself to sleep, and then you can just give up and die...   Yes. This is...the key to the Golden Land. The key... to our childhood dreams. The only keyhole this key can be stuck in... is that place. That... has to be what offering the sacrifices means. I'm sure you get it by now, right...?  
Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 14:21
|
|
|
...N-no!? I don't get it at all! It might be just the morning, but I have no idea the epiphany Eva reached just now. A sweetfish river that isn't a river, that's related to kinzo's past, that's a relatively simple riddle, that can be read in six characters... well, in that last one I'm poo poo out of luck, I haven't taken Japanese since college, and my kanji dictionary is lost to the storage limbo (should probably get a new one someday) . It flows down to a village, a place with a larger population, and on the shore is the key. Let me look at this is another way: the "key", whatever it is has never chosel the cousins, and what to they all have in common? They've never lived on the island for any period of time, only visited a couple of days... unlike all the others, who have lived full time or close to it: Kinzo's never left, it looks like Krauss and Natsuhi live here full time, and I think most of the servants have long shifts here, if not full ones. So, is Rokkenjima the village the poem talked about? In which case, what is the shore, and who are the two telling you of it? Or maybe that's another false trail... Blood flowing from the brain to the stomach? Too literal... Fish flowing down a river to the ocean, and then returning to spawn... the family members returning, bringing their children? Wait, what is the kanji make up of Rokkenjima, and what it used to be called, again? "Sato"(里) is found in maria's name, that's the second character, but... what are the other meanings of the "shore" kanji (岸)? Search enjine is no help, but I note that it's the second kanji of that word... what else can it be attached to? Aaah, curse my incompetence!
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 15:51
|
|
|
iirc, I think they said Kinzo didn't come to Rokkenjima until after he was an adult, when he made his fortune? Am I conflating things?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
When I first read Umineko, this is the point where I figured out the door. I didn't figure out the key on my own though.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:20
|
|
|
I played a bit ahead here. So I am going to request a video of the next scene in advance. Cause I like it a lot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:29
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I played a bit ahead here. So I am going to request a video of the next scene in advance. Cause I like it a lot. Do you mean the 'mundane' scene, or the following 'magical' scene?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:31
|
|
|
Is there any mention of where Kinzo lived besides the original Ushiromiya hometown? I'm going to reread and look. edit: aww man c'mon witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
Tender Child Loins posted:Is there any mention of where Kinzo lived besides the original Ushiromiya hometown? I'm going to reread and look. Edit: Nah, you'll figure it out eventually.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:35
|
|
|
ProfessorProf posted:Do you mean the 'mundane' scene, or the following 'magical' scene? If I had to pick. Honestly the Mundane one. I just love the discovery.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:38
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:If I had to pick. Honestly the Mundane one. I just love the discovery. I agree with this, but I vote for the magical portion, due to the inclusion of a certain song
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
I have absolutely zero knowledge of Japanese so the Six Characters is a no go for me. Although what both Evas seem to to be concluding is that it's down water toward the ocean, and I have a feeling it has to do with either the beaches around the Island or the shrine just off the Island (or was that part of the Island?). Also Island is six characters in English, but I know that's a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 19:50
|
|
|
tiistai posted:Turning 黄金郷 (ougonkyou) into 黄金の郷 (ougon no sato) doesn't necessarily change the entire meaning, just the reading of the kanji 郷. Well, not that it doesn't affect it at all. For a very, very overly literal example, ougonkyou could maybe be translated as "goldcountry" while ougon no sato could slightly more accurately be "golden village". "Golden Land" would be a perfectly fine translation for both, however. More wordplay theorizing! Like resurgam40, I'm just writing out my thoughts as they come. Instead of using 里 in "ougon no sato," Kinzo uses 郷, which has the same reading in this case, but different associations and compound readings in other cases. According to the online kanji dictionary, 郷 can also specifically mean a "rural township (of China)." So it could be that the use of this particular kanji is meant to draw attention to a location in China? There's been no mention of China in the story at all, so I'm not sure this is relevant. I went looking through the text so far to find any mention of a hometown besides Odawara, and there's nothing. And anyway, how can China point to a location in Rokkenjima? Judging from the IRL location of Niijima, it looks like Rokkenjima is on the opposite side of Japan from China. 里 also is an archaic Japanese unit of distance, the ri: approximately 3.927km or 2.44 miles long. Not sure about the relevance of this. Eva's revelations in the latest update are so vague, it's frustrating! I mean, it's good to preserve a sense of mystery, but I am dying to know what she's reading/thinking. There are a few interesting bits here, though: zooming out of the particulars of the "sweetfish river"; bringing in the ocean; finding the answer in a book. Obviously, there's nothing regarding Rokkenjima in any book, since it was mentioned in the beginning that, since it's a privately owned island, it's not on any official maps. So maybe she's reading some work of literature or an occult book, since so much of this story is about fantasy. I keep thinking about Child!Eva's remark, "Think of a river. A river. Linking it with a 'family tree' wasn't a bad idea. Try thinking about how to link a river with something else along those lines..." So what about the birth "canal"? I GOT IT The six letter word is "vagina." BOOM
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:
Actually, one small correction here: Jessica lives here full-time, with her parents.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Tender Child Loins posted:The six letter word is "vagina." BOOM Wrap it up, folks. The location of the gold has been found.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Wrap it up, folks. The location of the gold has been found. That does recontextualize Kinzo meeting the "golden witch," doesn't it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:Wait, what is the kanji make up of Rokkenjima, and what it used to be called, again? "Sato"(里) is found in maria's name, that's the second character, but... what are the other meanings of the "shore" kanji (岸)? Search enjine is no help, but I note that it's the second kanji of that word... what else can it be attached to? Allow my wikipedia fu to come to our aid. I couldn't spot anything particularly useful though, certainly nothing that immediately makes it obvious. Words with 里 in. Meanings of 里. Meanings of 岸. E: Urgh handy. Copying the urls directly breaks it. I'm not sure how to link them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
EagerSleeper posted:Wrap it up, folks. The location of the gold has been found. If Kinzo wrapped it up we wouldn't have these four shitheads (and their spouses, in three cases) being awful at each other.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
I'm in the middle of re-reading Episode Two and, though I didn't find anything about Kinzo's hometown, there's another epitaph that we completely forgot about. Of course, the story skips over it pretty quickly. I haven't had enough time to think about this yet, but I wanted to repost it to let you all take a crack at it. In sum: the characters spend a lot of time going back and forth about how important the chapel is. It struck me because whitehelm mentioned a "door" right after the latest update. I think in retrospect, now that we're mulling over the riddles of this game, it feels a lot more important.ProfessorProf posted:
So what the gently caress is this?! How could it fit with the witch's epitaph, especially since you can literally just open the chapel door with the corresponding key? Could it also just be a red herring, since Gohda and the rest speculate that this place is just meant to be the place where Kinzo would marry Beatrice, if she's successfully revived? edit: I can't remember if anyone in the thread talked about this at the time, so sorry if I'm kicking a dead horse  Skimming through the posts following that update right now.edit2: Wait, doesn't Kanon's corpse end up there in this episode? The profile image reinforces the significance of the location, using (l)ord instead of (L)ord here. (Or it could be a typo/cultural difference/confirmation that there is no god.) There's nothing useful said about the chapel in this episode, though. I hate how fickle this game is with location details; to be honest, I'm totally that annoying D&D player who requests tons of location descriptions every time. 
witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2016 23:21
|
|
"...My English sucks. What is it...? ...<This door is>... <opened>... <only at>... <probability of>...?? Sorry, my English sucks."
"...Umm, I think it went 'm', 'b', 't', 'q', so, umm, umm... how many did that mean, I think... umm... umm... Anyways, this is incredible. You can't even count close to that with all the fingers on both hands. It really would be impossible unless a miracle occurred."
"...Certainly. He wanted to give a spectacular gambling-style example, very much like how Kinzo-san used to talk."
"What is it, what is it, can everyone read it? Someone tell me what it means too."
"Kihihihihihihi. At least learn English. How did you get into high school without even being able to read this much? Kihihihihihihihihihi.
"Ouch. Ouchouchouch."
"...It means something like this. 'This door is opened only when a miracle occurs. You will be blessed only when a miracle occurs'."
|
I suspect the Little l lord is to indicate the chapel is important to Kinzo, instead of it being a place of holiness, given we're seeing Ars Goetia demons and talk of philosophy, I think they would try to make such important distinctions.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 00:07
|
|
|
D3m3 posted:Actually, one small correction here: Jessica lives here full-time, with her parents. Of course, I forgot.  Meaning the only commonality the cousins have is that they're cousins, so that avenue's probably off base. The chapel, maybe? But we know where that is and we know what key opens that, and I can't think of any way what was described as being in the chapel to be related... and the door was already mentioned in the game with big honking letters, so that leads me to think it might be a red herring. (wait a minute, "red herring"... holy carp, it could be the chapel! :tinhat:) drat it's still so vague it might as well be vagina...Something related to a family tree that moves down and out in branches... bloodlines, circulation systems, nervous systems... boating systems? The mouth of a river, a harbor? A little cove on the island? A tower, a basement?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
Actually I would not be shocked that the words on the church are important now that it's been brought up again. Like Kinzo's beloved hometown what it says is danced around and we don't learn it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
resurgam40 posted:Of course, I forgot. No way, herrings are saltwater fish! And you forgot: the three gold bars were found on the chapel's altar in E2. That feels important. Maybe one way the chapel could be related is that its association with marriage makes it a site of life transition? The metaphorical "shore" that separates young sweetfish from their adulthood? That seems too sentimental for Kinzo, though. edit: oath2order noticed us!  
witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
It has never been harder for me to stay quiet about things I should be quiet about than this discussion. You're all working so hard and I'm sincerely proud of you guys. Don't stop thinking. Witches are still totes real tho. oath2order fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Too sentimental perhaps for Kinzo's personality, but symbolism is extremely important in magic and mysticism - so a shore being a life transition may just fit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 01:02
|
|
|
On Kinzo's beloved hometown: There've been two major discussions of this (which I've just found by control F-ing through all the pages of the thread). One was way back in episode 1: ProfessorProf posted:
So, Sogakishi (曽我岸, in case anyone wants to try playing around with the kanji). I've tracked it down on google maps here if anyone's interested. It feels wrong though, I don't think they'd just give it to us like this. The second discussion was when Kyrie was giving her views on the epitaph: ProfessorProf posted:
The fact they're being so cryptic makes me think this is actually the place we're looking for. The place where Kinzo's branch of the family was from. Somewhere which underwent heavy development post-WWII, was bombed?, would have had rivers and presumably is near the sea.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 01:32
|
|
"Huh?! Wow, you sure know a lot! So~, what does that mean? Shannon-chan, are you also after the gold, and trying to solve the riddle~? That makes us rivals!"
"I, it's not like I'm interested in gold... It's just that... George-sama told me about it before..."
"That's because we reached the same conclusion two years ago. We even went to the trouble of laying out a map and looking it up!"
"It was about five kilometers to the north of Odawara. We definitely found a place called Sogakishi there... However, after that, we don't know. The fifth line doesn't say where the key is hidden in that place. Maria-chan, could you read it for us?"
"...Uu-...There sleeps the... key to the Golden Land. Uu-! I could read it!"
"Sogakishi is probably large, and there wasn't ever any house built there by the Ushiromiya family. There are no hints as to where the key is hidden in this huge area, so this is where we give up."
"Let's see... I've never been there, so I don't really know, but according to the map, it's in the mountains. I'm pretty sure it was at the base of Asama mountain."
"...Hmmmm. That's a little annoying. Couldn't a puzzle for the hiding place of a treasure be a little more exact? Anyways, I get the feeling that Sogakishi is definitely the right place."
"...The Master almost never speaks of his past. ...However, he speaks of the Great Kanto earthquake as though it was someone else's story, so he may have been living far away from the Kanto area."
"The Ushiromiya family may have been living in Odawara, but the branch family was not limited to that. Grandfather often called himself part of a branch of the branch family, the least connected to the successor."
"So that's what you mean! The beloved hometown might not even be Odawara at all..."
"Since Father went to all the trouble of telling us that it's beloved, we can imagine that it's a hometown he had strong feelings for. Did Father come from Odawara?"
"...Right. This probably isn't Odawara. From what I've heard, he had a very fun time as a youth."
"Hahhaha. Being made the Ushiromiya Family Head was probably Dad's greatest bit of misfortune in life."
"...Probably. Father didn't actually want to become the Head."
"That was only as a vacation. But, the townscape had changed completely since Father's time. After all, it was caught up in that war, wasn't it? By now, even precisely locating the place Father lived is impossible. I imagine that if Father went there himself now, even he wouldn't be able to pick out the place he'd lived anymore."
"Well, after all, those guys have also gone through a remarkable recovery..."
"...Does the part about a sweetfish river bring any place name clearly to mind?"
|
Welp, time to pick through this, then. I'll be back, see you again! edit: Here are some possible answers to the hometown question that: 1) fit the definition of a location outside of the Kanto region that was both heavily damaged and experienced major post-WW2 economic recovery AND 2) are associated with sweetfish. I checked out sweetfish distribution here. I kept it at the literal definition of "sweetfish" because otherwise I would go insane. As for war and recovery info, I'm only going by what was listed on various Wikipedia pages and what has grabbed my interest, so I'm sure there's a lot that I'm missing. Though this feels like I'm groping my way toward the truth, I don't know how to proceed with this information. The Chinese possibilities make sense if my earlier interpretation of 郷 meaning "Chinese village" is valid.
witchcore ricepunk fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 01:42
|
|
factor)
|
Hah, I'm working through this one. E: Shannon also says it was far from Kanto, which might narrow it down. E2: There are really too many targets to get anything useful from that. CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 01:45
|
|
|
My brain has stopped at likewise drawing the conclusion that the riddle involves a really tortuous metaphor for sex and childbirth. Maybe I've had too much wine this evening.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 02:31
|
|
|
Tender Child Loins posted:Instead of using 里 in "ougon no sato," Kinzo uses 郷, which has the same reading in this case, but different associations and compound readings in other cases. According to the online kanji dictionary, 郷 can also specifically mean a "rural township (of China)." So it could be that the use of this particular kanji is meant to draw attention to a location in China? There's been no mention of China in the story at all, so I'm not sure this is relevant. I went looking through the text so far to find any mention of a hometown besides Odawara, and there's nothing. And anyway, how can China point to a location in Rokkenjima? Judging from the IRL location of Niijima, it looks like Rokkenjima is on the opposite side of Japan from China. This sounds interesting, especially with the other stuff about Odawara. Specifically, he wouldn't be thinking of that place, and wouldn't call it beloved, because of his relationship with the main family. The branch family is said to be far away; could they have been living in China? Would that make sense for the era? Are there any prominent Chinese places with literal or metaphorical rivers running through them? If the key is text, which this update definitely implies, it might be that you can find the right text by following the river down a map, rather than by physically going to wherever. Also, an alternate way of spelling things that uses six characters? Maybe spelling it in another language, like Chinese? (Of course, it could also be one of those things where you can spell it in Japanese using an alternate alphabet, or even English.) Hrm. Probably getting too far ahead of where we are to figure that one out. idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 02:54
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:This sounds interesting, especially with the other stuff about Odawara. Specifically, he wouldn't be thinking of that place, and wouldn't call it beloved, because of his relationship with the main family. The branch family is said to be far away; could they have been living in China? Would that make sense for the era? Are there any prominent Chinese places with literal or metaphorical rivers running through them? If the key is text, which this update definitely implies, it might be that you can find the right text by following the river down a map, rather than by physically going to wherever. What time frame are we looking at here? The Japanese held Manchuria from 1931/1932 to 1943, so it seems unlikely that there'd be a long running family out there. Do we know how old Kinzo is? idonotlikepeas posted:Also, an alternate way of spelling things that uses six characters? Maybe spelling it in another language, like Chinese? (Of course, it could also be one of those things where you can spell it in Japanese using an alternate alphabet, or even English.) Hrm. Probably getting too far ahead of where we are to figure that one out. My immediate assumption would be that it would need to be rendered from kanji into one of the other syllabaries, but your right, we won't be able to tell till we have it in front of us.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 03:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 21:41 |
|
|
John Lee posted:I am not intending to start a bickering match, but I think both of these statements could also be easily seen as untrue! It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it? I've been meaning to respond to this earlier, but in regards to whether magical happenstance are really happening in Higurashi, (as someone who has never played the game) I'm going to assume that they are. All I know about Higurashi is that it does involve time loops, boxing glove hands, and murders, but I haven't heard of any characters there telling us that "hey, time loops aren't real". So that's why I thought that magic in that game existed. I'm probably not ever going to find an LP of it to prove myself right or wrong about if magic there exists, but Higurashi sounds interesting, so feel free to spoiler me about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2016 03:59
|
|