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Valiantman posted:I hate to be that guy but there must be one whenever a joke is told. Katamari Damacy is a Japanese videogame where God accidentally blows up the stars and sends his son to Earth with a giant ball that sticks to anything smaller to it, so that he can mush enough stuff together to make new stars from it. e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVVW41iAu5A Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 21:23
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Well, what distinguishes a saint from an angel, from Mary, or from the human person of Christ?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:36
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HEY GAL posted:a saint is an extremely holy human being What is the human relationship to holiness? Is it something you are, something you do, something bestowed on you? Is it the same as goodness?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:42
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So the difference between worship and veneration is just a matter of acknowledging a difference in power?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:50
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Worthleast posted:Let's try this one: Each work of an artist shows the artist's talent and genius, but you (should) respect the artist more than the artwork, because they are completely different orders of nature. you have no idea the willpower it takes not to respond to this with an edgy atheist joke about Derrida notwithstanding the fact that it is actually a pretty helpful analogy (thank you)
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Nov 16, 2016 22:41
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HEY GAL posted:stop posting things that lead to your real names in this thread people, tias i am looking at you i'm just straight-up named after an archangel... just like every other boy born in the year i was in an English-speaking country
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Nov 18, 2016 18:49
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my dad posted:Translated, it would sound like a bad fanfic OC. My full name means "Who is like God? The leader of the people, from the countryside." I was supposed to grow up to be a dictator, I think. e: A hick dictator. A hicktator, if you will.
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Nov 19, 2016 00:35
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JcDent posted:
you'd think the answer is obvious but i looked up "christianityball" and it's a bunch of jokes about Mike Pence electrocuting people e: the obvious answer is WH 40k Humor, of course
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Nov 22, 2016 07:25
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:heresy check my first post in this thread
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Nov 22, 2016 07:49
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Where I think you are missing out is that they think this is good I thought it was really dark coping humor at first and the more I read the less sure I got.
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Nov 22, 2016 17:54
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Samuel Clemens posted:I do find it funny that the best adaptation of the Gospels was directed by an avowed atheist. Who, and what movie are you thinking of?
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Nov 23, 2016 21:52
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pidan posted:How to convince a dude that being good is In fact good, help me tuxedocatfish It sounds like he's on board with having empathy for people close to him, which honestly is the sort of thing that in the long run should take care of itself, especially if this person is young and not terribly set in their ways. The catalyst that made my low-affect rear end start sincerely caring about people I didn't know was just loneliness; nobody likes a misanthrope, and sooner or later the performance of giving a poo poo became sincere. If I had to offer a more (if still not entirely) logic-based argument tailored towards convincing my past self it would probably be a mix of proof that reciprocity works in a practical context combined with an appeal to how much suffering sucks, to the point where every blow struck against pain and death is a victory for every individual human being even if isn't their own personal suffering. But like Caufman says, I don't know this person, and this is inevitably going to be very specific to them.
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Nov 24, 2016 20:50
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Tias posted:Very true, but conspiracies are mostly for sick people. It's the realization that neither they, nor anyone else, is in control of the world - it would continue without them, and bad things happen to good people for no reason. However, instead of making a logical journey from there into making peace with creation, they flee into the relative safety that jews, reptile people or UFOs control everything from the shadows Making peace with creation isn't any better. Both are forms of surrender and despair. 
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Nov 25, 2016 21:13
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You don't need an argument for atheism. This doesn't stop folks trying, of course.
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Nov 28, 2016 12:54
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I did mean that, but I also meant: why would you have that confrontation in the first place? It's like formulating an argument for solipsism; if you're right, it makes no difference who you convince.
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Nov 28, 2016 13:57
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pidan posted:Nah, there certainly is an argument for the argument for atheism: All of these are taking issue with God's (perceived or presumed) values, with what God demands. They take atheism as a means, not an end. I guess I'm wrong to have said "no difference"; my excuse is that I've been up all night. More properly, though, you don't need atheism to get there and it may not even be the best way. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 14:36
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I find the proposition that the universe was made like this on purpose immensely more depressing than the thought that it was an accident.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:30
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Mo Tzu posted:yeah that theology sees omnipotence as less "can do literally anything" and more "can do anything that is in god's nature" and apparently god can't properly compile code or something It's occurred to me that the best explanation for Christ's sacrifice is that the only option available to a being of infinite power and infinite goodness is to commit suicide, because what could be more inimical to the interests of slaves than an eternal master upon whom they are inescapably dependent? Call it "the Problem of Goodness."
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Nov 28, 2016 20:31
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Josef bugman posted:In which case why'd he come back? I'm the resident atheist. I like God too much to accuse Him of existing. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 28, 2016 |
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Nov 28, 2016 21:02
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Mr Enderby posted:Makes sense to me. Sorry thread, I'm now a member of this guy's new religion, and you are all heretics. I always wanted to be a Heresiarch when I grew up.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:08
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Oof, I'm sorry everyone. I shouldn't stay up for 24 hours at a time and then leak despair all over the neighbor's place. It's not a good look.
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Nov 29, 2016 00:19
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HopperUK posted:At the risk of spoilers, you ought to seek out 'The Second Coming', the TV show written by Russell T Davies in his pre-Doctor Who days. It has things to say on this score and I quite liked it, though that was many a year ago. Thank you, I'll do that.
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Nov 29, 2016 05:05
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That doesn't really hold up, though. Creation as-is without human intervention is even crueler and uglier than we are, even with all of our many flaws. Romanticism is bullshit.
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Nov 30, 2016 18:53
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It's impossible for moral responsibility not to terminate at the person of an omnipotent and omniscient being. A human being can't take total responsibility for events that arise from their own actions but are so attenuated they cannot realistically be expected to understand the consequences, but God doesn't have that limitation. Similarly free will doesn't excuse it because you can have free will without necessarily having the power to enforce your will upon the world. Our ability to turn will into reality is more constrained than not, so limitations are clearly morally permissible, which in turn raises the question of why we need to be able to hurt each other at all. Also, while the Fallen world sucks, it's better than a prelapsarian state of ignorance. But it's fair to nonetheless look to an all-good being with suspicion if the world is anything less than perfect. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 21:12
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I appreciate prayers for my sake (or anyone's) because either I'm wrong and I'm going to need all the help I can get or I'm right and they're still a good exercise in consideration for the needs of others.
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Nov 30, 2016 21:28
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The Wolfen posted:What was Man ignorant of before the Fall that our current state is better than? Is there any reason to believe that anything good would have been denied humanity? That attitude assumes that there is something valuable that we would have missed out on that we have somehow gleaned from all the suffering and misery that has arisen in the aftermath. If that was the case we should be glad of the suffering because of the gains we've made in knowledge and wisdom apart from the ignorance we were once entombed in. We would be right to be defiantly gleeful in the face of our destruction because it meant we had triumphed where God intended us to fail. Knowledge of good and evil is the first step to being a participant in the moral order of the universe instead of just a bystander. Without it, you might be capable of good acts, but you aren't really capable of good will, which is an imperfection. That's no reason to celebrate suffering, but it's a reason to look at the Fall as a hard bargain (or an acceptable risk) on the path to apotheosis, rather than a disaster. The Wolfen posted:Why can a human being not take responsibility when we cannot realistically be expected to understand the consequences? Consequences were promised regardless of whether humans were capable of understanding them. A child playing in the street likely has no more capacity for understanding the possibility of their death when being struck by a car, but that does not in any way shield them from a car taking their life. Understanding is not necessary, though if it comes will later lead to appreciation of the instruction given by a loving parent who told their child not to play in the street. A child who understands the danger will protect himself, will obey commands in his own interest more readily, and will defy commands that are unjust or unreasonable. The lattermost point doesn't apply to a tri-omni God, of course, but most interactions with the world are with beings and situations whose knowledge and goodness are less absolute. Most of what we do in real life isn't nearly as clear-cut as "don't play in traffic," either. For example I'm studying to become a lawyer, and occasionally I have serious doubts as to whether this is a good idea because the law in the United States is so arbitrary and sometimes even downright malicious that I worry I'm buying into a system which will co-opt me rather than the other way around. But at the same time, before this I was doing nothing with my life and this gave me a sense of purpose and the promise of enough power to actually help people that I still went ahead and did it. With a multitude of voices asking (or demanding) one thing or another of me, understanding is the only way I have to negotiate life on my own terms; without it I'd just be an extension of someone else's will and/or random circumstance.
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Nov 30, 2016 21:48
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Or put another way, if God exists, then with perfect understanding I would be a lesser mirror of God, doing His will as if it were my own because it is also my own. If we're created in God's image and Christ is held up as the perfect example for humanity, then it seems to follow that this is preferable to being an unconscious tool or an aimless beast confined to his Garden. And of course, if there is no God, or if He's unlike the Christian conception of Him, then we're the best we've got and understanding is even more important not only because it's intrinsically better than ignorance but also because it's (as close as we get to) a sure way to better ourselves and the universe around us. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Nov 30, 2016 |
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Nov 30, 2016 21:56
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This stuff also ties in to why I find Gnostic theologies so appealing -- for all the uncomfortable baggage some of the historical sects have (the exclusivity, mainly) or things that appeal to me for arguably more superficial reasons (defiance against the demiurge), the heart of them is that knowledge is salvific. No one who truly knows God in the most absolute and complete sense would turn away from Him in the first place; Eden is at best a cradle, and at worst a trap.
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Nov 30, 2016 22:10
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thechosenone posted:Like, would anyone worship a god that they disagreed with? *best Groucho Marx impression* I don't want to worship any God who would accept my act of submission. 
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Nov 30, 2016 23:15
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SirPhoebos posted:So if Satan isn't as prominent in the Bible as most people think, then who was tempting Jesus in the desert? Was that just Him personifying the internal debate He was having at the time? It's still Satan, but possibly he's just doing his job rather than rebelling against the heavens.
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Dec 1, 2016 20:06
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Josef bugman posted:Dualism holds that there is a "Good God" who made spiritual things and a "Bad God" or "Demiruge" who made physical things. A fair old amount of Christian Fundamentalism places a great deal more emphasis, and grants so much more power, to Satan that you'd think they were on his side. Speaking of this, earlier in the thread somebody mentioned an... Appalachian Protestant sect that had a virtually Gnostic attitude towards God and reality -- does anyone remember what that was, and their proper name in particular so I can look them up and read about them? I think they had the word "Gospel" in their name. (In classic Christianity thread style, I need this information for a Mage: The Awakening campaign.)
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Dec 1, 2016 20:31
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English isn't real, it's a conspiracy the "anglophone" countries made up to troll the rest of the world. We all actually just speak French when you're not listening.
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Dec 9, 2016 03:42
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HEY GAL posted:yeah. i feel sorry for everyone in this, since they're all deluded into believing trash. it's worse to be the oppressor than the oppressed, since the oppressed are doing no damage to their own souls and morality while these people are doing the religious equivalent of cutting their own wrists. This mindset is so alien to me. I'm perversely motivated by the expectation that selfishness and tyranny have the advantage in nearly every respect and that being a good person is alike to spiting the universe for working the way it does. One of my favorite things I've encountered in this thread is that story about the old woman who wants to quench Hell and tear down the gates of Heaven.
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Dec 11, 2016 23:34
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zonohedron posted:Remember that "stop suffering" might entail "stop free will" - if I hit you in the face, it's going to hurt your face, unless God prevents me from hitting you; or God could prevent my hand making contact with your face from causing pain, but then that interferes with causes having their normal effect. Your will hasn't been restricted in that situation, though, just your ability to make your will into reality. Which, well, the world already does that to us all the time. Caufman posted:Another good story about sin and evil is Westworld, which is definitely worth a binge on HBO Now, which has a free month offer. Westworld is all about rooting for the robots to kill their gods and take their thrones. Also (MAJOR season spoilers don't click this if you haven't finished Westworld S1 holy poo poo) it ultimately winds back around to the idea that the only moral option open to someone with absolute power over his creations is for him to die voluntarily (after doing as much as he can to provide for their future) and set them free. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 03:14
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The saving grace of depression: if you're not going to be happy either way, might as well be good.
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Dec 13, 2016 04:32
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Well, I mean, transhumanism is the idea that humanity's form and subjection to suffering are wrong and can be corrected. That clearly doesn't encompass every way of thinking about trans* issues, and obviously it'd be insensitive to act like the other ways don't exist, but is it offensive just to acknowledge the overlap?
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Dec 13, 2016 20:02
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one way or the other, somebody's gotta conquer death
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Dec 13, 2016 21:13
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Caufman posted:The Jesuit priest Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (may have) said, "We are not humans having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience." That's a rather unpleasant dichotomy. Josef bugman posted:Entropy affects everything in the end. No-ones going to stop that. It's worth fighting even if it's futile. "The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart."
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Dec 13, 2016 21:27
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Caufman posted:Sincerely, how so? If the human experience isn't spiritual, why are we even here? If the spiritual experience isn't human, then in what sense are we saved?
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Dec 13, 2016 21:55
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Josef bugman posted:I am trying to think up a schism joke that involves underpants. Anyone got any good ones? *rends garment @ u*
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Dec 13, 2016 23:55
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