Smoking Crow posted:

you made it into an album, not an individual pic

Lutha Mahtin posted:

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/09/09/program_for_popes_visit_to_sweden_reformation_anniversary/1256960

Lutha Mahtin posted:

my dad (my actual dad irl) is really excited about this, because he supports reconciliation between the two churches. even if it's just a gesture, it's still a really nice gesture

Spacewolf posted:

Ya know, this is a really random question, but it's prompted by the volunteering I intermittently do with the red cross, the 4th anniversary of Sandy (and me being where Sandy hit), etc.

Liturgigoons (and others), how much does your church/denomination prepare for disaster/catastrophe? I'm not just talking "our parish hall is a shelter for the red cross", but "We do in fact have Plans prepared for if someone tries to blow up the diocesan chancery or otherwise decapitate us as an organization, and we could survive that"? (Actually, Orthodox and Catholic goons, that's a good question - are we screwed if someone blows up the diocesan chancery and takes out the records of, say, baptismal certificates not held by a parish?)

Not that I see such scenarios as likely or even probable, but events in, eg, Hong Kong make me wonder - how prepared would our faith communities really be for disasters, both natural and man-made? (Hong Kong comes up because I'm wondering what any of the liturgical denominations would do if the Chinese revoked one country two systems.)

(There's also the reality that preparing for unlikely man-made scenarios puts you in pretty good stead for the various natural disasters, too.)

Lutha Mahtin posted:

The thing is, both of these statements are kind of true. To a degree. Sort of. At the least, they are related to actual historical trends.

The first thing I quoted is easy, because the word "Protestant" pretty much says it all. It is a movement of people who were protesting about something. And the something that they were protesting was Catholicism, or at least parts of it. So when your founding myths and early thinkers often defined themselves as what they weren't, not just what they were, this colors how later generations think. And also I think it's important to point out that this is not solely a Protestant phenomenon. In every church you will find people hating on other churches. A saying I have often heard is that the Devil works hardest within the church, which I myself don't take literally, but it's something to keep in mind.

The human rights thing is a bit of a stretch to connect directly to Luther. However I think it is inaccurate to exclude him and other church reformers from Western history when it comes to the rights of common people. Many movements for human and civil rights can be traced back (at least partly) to the Reformation.

People being jerks about it is not good though, of course

Lutha Mahtin posted:

Don't worry, the rise of non-religious people in Western society means that a lot of newspaper editorials are equally tone-deaf and offensive whether you're Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu...

quote:

[E]ight out of 10 people polled agreed with the statement that “there are things in life that we simply cannot explain through science or any other means.”
Six out of 10 non-religious people also agreed with that statement.
A majority of people (59 per cent) said they believed in the existence of some kind of “spiritual being” while three in 10 defined God as a “universal life force”.
Only a quarter said they actively believed in angels, a smaller proportion than said they had faith in the existence of “spirits”.
The research also showed that almost a quarter of those polled had turned to tarot card readings and one in 20 had had their “aura” read or attempted healing with crystals.
But traditional approaches remain strong. While half the population do not believe that prayer can heal people, almost two in five do.
And just over half said they turned to prayer at least occasionally.

HEY GAL posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/nyregion/muslims-parents-donald-trump-staten-island.html

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

What? That doesn't ring false at all. I can't speak for Europe or Latin America but US politics is intensely driven by religious concerns (and competing secular ones.)

Keep in mind also that it might have more to do with visibility than actual demographics. The religious right as a voting bloc might be disintegrating, but that just makes them louder.

cerror posted:

Just speculating on this, I was thinking it may have more to do with the effect of technological development on Western society than anything else. With the advent of things like affordable air travel, television, and more recently, the internet, it is becoming increasing easy to be isolated from one another. Maybe the diminishing role of community brought on by that has led to a reduction in religiosity as well (or at least, a decrease in more traditional forms of it). Or maybe I'm overthinking it.

Edit: I'm dumb. It wouldn't be the technology, but rather substituting it for community. I think. Maybe.

Cythereal posted:

Well, I'm officially moving into a new city at the end of the week to start my new job. Time to start church shopping once again.

JcDent posted:

I hate kanji


Still weirded out that we're getting the same readings even when we're strangers living a Poland apart.

HEY GAL posted:

well, the mixed native/french people being catholic makes a lot of sense

what would be really interesting is if Metternich recognizes the names of your catholic german-americans as being common catholic german names

Paladinus posted:

There are organised Arian churches. And I don't mean Jehova Witnesses, but things like that:

http://www.arian-catholic.org/

It may not look like much, but they have parishes even in Russia.

Note also that the background on this website is stolen from the official site of the Holy See.

http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en.html

quote:

The true Universal Christian Church is Anglican. A simple fact is that although it is believed Jesus Christ travelled to different countries, there is powerful evidence that he spent most of his life in England (see Christ in Britain). After Jesus’ death, his uncle, St Joseph of Arimathea, returned to Glastonbury with St Simon and erected the first Christian church there (see First Christian Church in Britain). In fact there is no logical reason why the Universal Church should be run from Rome other than Rome being the centre of power and wealth during the time of the Roman Empire. Logic would suggest that there are two original Holy centres for Christianity in the world: Jerusalem in Palestine/Israel and Glastonbury in England; arguably Rome is a third centre due to centuries of prayer and worship that have been concentrated there. The Arian Catholic Church is the evolved form of the early Church and is the true Anglican, Global and true Universal (Catholic) Christian church, that is not tethered to Rome.

HEY GAL posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-37903318

The Phlegmatist posted:

I'll start a novena to St. Josemaria Escriva (whom I am sure this thread hates, tho) for ya.

HEY GAL posted:

well i prayed to god for things to go well with this English guy i am seeing and now we agreed that we'll get married to get me out of the US so i am engaged now

it was me, i did this

Paladinus posted:

I am a big fan of Potato Germans myself.

quote:

Lutherans rejected the category of mortal sin. Distinguishing between greater and lesser sins was beside the point since all sin was the expression of human nature utterly corrupted by the fall and would result in damnation unless God forgave the sinner. The suicide died unrepentant in the act of sinning, so it was likely that he or she died an unjustified sinner outside the state of grace. Unlike the Catholic Church, however, the Lutheran Church made no definite pronouncements on the fate of believers to be able to be able to resist diabolical temptations to suicide, but Lutherans placed greater emphasis on the power of Satan. "I do not agree," Luther wrote, "that those who kill themselves are simply damned, for this reason, that they do not do it gladly, but are rather overpowered by the power of the devil, like one who is murdered in the woods by a robber." Describing suicides more as Satan's victims than willing accomplices, Luther held out the possibility that God had forgiven them and they might yet be saved. God's judgment in these matters was inscrutable. Luther did not want his lenient views on suicide to become public knowledge, however. "Common people should not be told [that suicides do not necessarily go to hell], so that Satan is not given the chance of causing a bloodbath, and I approve of the strict observance of those political ceremonies by which [the body] is dragged through the threshold, etc." Here Luther was endorsing the rites of desecration to which bodies of suicides were traditionally subjected by secular authorities (hence "political ceremonies"), but he viewed such measures as a means of deterrence rather than as a statement of the suicide's spiritual status. Lutherans did refuse to bury suicides in graveyards; however, they regarded funeral ceremonies an aid for the living rather than for the dead, who were beyond human help. Lutherans no longer consecrated cemeteries, a rite they abolished along with all other sacramentals. Therefore, exclusion from the graveyard did not constitute a denial of the "means of grace" as it did for Catholics; rather, it was an honor punishment and measure of church discipline.

quote:

After the Catholic miller "S. A." from Hilpoltstein in Bavaria unsuccessfully tried to cut the throat of his five-year-old son in 1724 [the article is actually about "suicides by proxy", i.e. suicidal people murdering others, mostly children and often their own, in the hope of being executed], he was cured of his mental distress by going on a pilgrimage to the nearby Jesuit shrine of Heilig Kreuz in Bergen, near Neuburg an der Donau. The cure was not permanent, however. Twenty one years later he cut the throat of his nine-year-old daughter. "It was a gift from God," he told his interrogators, that he had killed his child and not himself, "for in the contrary case he would have gone to the devil with body and soul." The Silesian Catholic peasant Hans-Christian Henatschel cut the throat of his nine week-old baby in 1762, after praying to the saints and engaging in a Friday fast failed to stave off his suicidal urges.

quote:

In both Catholic and Protestant regions the disposal of the suicide's remains was the responsibility of secular authorities, a task they conferred upon the dishonorable professions of executioner and skinner. In Bavaria the executioner or skinner buried suicides "at a secluded place where neither man nor beast treads"; other options were cremation, disposal in a river, or burial beneath the gallows. In Augsburg suicides of both confessions were nailed into a barrel and cast in the river Lech. In Wiirttemberg the executioner or skinner buried the suicide either in a desolate location or, if the suicide had a particularly bad reputation in life, underneath the gallows. In Schleswig and Holstein the executioner buried suicides in a field or with animal carrion. The transport of the body to the burial site sometimes involved additional apotropaic measures designed to prevent the suicide's return as a malicious revenant. To prevent the suicide from finding his or her way home, the body was removed through a hole dug underneath the threshold rather than through the door, a procedure ecclesiastical and secular authorities tolerated though they did not officially authorize it. In Nuremberg the bodies of suicides were lowered out of windows.

The Catechism posted:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him.
It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life.
We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls.
We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us.
It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life.
It is gravely contrary to the just love of self.
It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations.
Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.
Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. the Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Samuel Clemens posted:

That brings up something I was wondering about a while ago. When did suicide 'officially' become a grave sin in the Christian faith? The Bible doesn't seem to say much on the subject one way or the other, and I remember reading about an early Christian sect that actually viewed suicide as akin to martyrdom.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

KataMary DaMercy.

HEY GAL posted:

when the america-dwellers are asleep the only people posting here are the germans, the nordics, my dad, and me; that's gonna make things a little weird

SirPhoebos posted:

How many saints are there?

quote:

Do saints have unique "domains" or is there overlap?

quote:

Do non-Catholic and -Orthodox denominations recognize saints?

quote:

How does one become a saint? I heard some people joking that Theo Epstein would be qualified because ending two historic title droughts could be interpreted as miracles.

quote:

Through a door that's halfway ajar you can see a man wearing clercial garb, sitting at his desk and reading a file. This is one of the five relators, busy getting on with a saint's procedure or burying it in a drawer, sine die, to defer indefinitely.
Someone is talking on the phone, you can hardly not hear it in the quiet corridor: "He's accepted all my arguments for martydrom... Yes, yes, he told me: If it hadn't been for me, the entire case would have been blown to pieces..."
And in another room you can hear: "I wouldn't get my hopes up, if I were you. The case is stuck because the journalists have discovered this book of his, they won't forget that and would remind everybody of it if it came to canonisation..."
Everyday office life in the Congregation for the Causes of the Saints.

quote:

And what's the deal with the Virgin Mary? (I say in my best Seinfeld voice) Obviously she isn't part of the Trinity-well not unless you count being a part of the Holy Spirit-but she (does Mary get capitalized pronouns like Jesus?) seems to hold a greater level of significance than any saint?

Translation from elsewhere, sadly I don't speak a lick of Greek posted:

On November 16 the Synod of aboriginal Patriarchate of Alexandria and All Africa continued its work under the chairmanship of His Beatitude Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa, Theodore Vstin Patriarchal Seat.

Speakers at today’s meeting were Ven. Nigeria Metropolitan k.Alexandros who developed the theme of fasting within the African reality and Ven. Cameroon Metropolitan. Gregory who omilise on the institution of Deaconesses the missionary field. Both rapporteurs presented with theological arguments the positions and proposals, was done no extensive discussion thereon.

On the subject of fasting decisions of the meeting will be announced shortly to the clergy and people of the spiritual jurisdiction of the Patriarchate by the Patriarchate Circulars.

On the issue of the institution of Deaconesses, it was decided to revive it and ordained bishops on tripartite committee for detailed consideration.

The website of the Carthusians posted:

After her solemn profession or perpetual donation, the nun can, if she wishes, receive the Consecration of Virgins. This is a special rite where the Bishop gives the nun not only the veil and ring, external signs of an indissoluble union with the divine Spouse, but also the stole. This confers on the recipient certain liturgical privileges the most significant of them being the proclaiming of the Gospel on certain occasions.

Lutha Mahtin posted:

Ceciltron posted:

A table for everything. A sheet for every character. Mandatory verisimilitude. Remember Gygax's courtesan table? Well now you will have a thousand sided die for every single npc.

HYBRID RPG version 0.21 posted:

RULE # 0: 1st version # naming rule: Rules or/and equations grow @ rate of 1 per month; but, Version # = [((year) – 2000) / 10], Version V, for the web-page version. So, in 2002, the Version # is @ V 0.2 by [(2002 – 2000) / 10] = 2/10 = Version V 0.2. So, % complete = (100*V), where % @ V 0.2 = 20% complete, < currently > for the web-page version. Then, in 1999, V = -.1. Then, 2nd version # naming rule: based on the value of the sun, where V 0.3025 would place the sun @ 55 C1 DP or Default Psyche. And, the 3rd version # naming rule: combination of the 1st & 2nd version # naming rule, where by the 1st digit “3” in 0.3 such as in 0.3025 after the decimal point would signify the sun @ 55 C1 DP, the 2nd digit “3” in 0.33 for the year 2033, and the last digit or 4th digit such as in such as “in 0.339, the month of the year, such as in start of autumn of 2033. But, V.34 should be done in 2034. My 1st version # naming rule @ V 0.08 is proportional to the appearance of the 1st mutant(s) in Aberrant rpg in 2008, since my version # partially coincides with the value & magnitude of the sun, which signify the appearance of the 1st mutant, sort of like in DC Universe for the future earth timeline where future DC earth is called planet Krypton, which is DC earth in a future DC timeline, AT LEAST THAT IS HOW I INTERPRET THE DC UNIVERSE SUPERMAN BEING FROM THE FUTURE, < notice the red sun > , where Kal EL travels back in time in a time machine is how I interpret it. So, by giving a larger value for the sun or the earth in the present timeline, you increase the probability of mutants on earth being born. You might ask how ? The Answer is: Conservation of Mass & Energy which would be (increase in) Negative Energy (which is also used for time travel) resulting IF you artificially increase the value of the sun or the earth or that of any large heavy object near earth, where this Negative Energy would be transferred to some organic body in manner similar to that of creating the MU Cosmic Cube, & in similar manner that used by the DC Jor El to created the Eradicator, later reborn as Kal El. In the 1st cartoon series of Superman in the 21st century, Superman uses this Negative Energy to create Brainiac, in Superman’s attempt to take over DC earth, but in different way from the Martian-Man of DC Mars, IF he’s from Mars, though he could just be a mutant from DC earth pretending to be from Mars. All members of the Justice League are super villains, including Aquaman, except that they have better PR than the Legion of Doom: they are all super villains trying to take over DC earth, including the current Clark Kent of the tv series “Smallville”, where he pretends to be a good guy, but he’s constantly scheming evil plots. Even, Wonder Woman is evil as well as a lier, by that I don’t mean her sexy outfit. I’ve been preaching, if you want to call it that, this that these so-called super heroes are super villains in disguise for the past several(7) years, ever since I discovered the subliminal PLOT(s) in DC & MU comics & cartons of DC & MU in 1996, after years of research consisting of running various alternate scenarios, all of them leading up to the same conclusion that they are all super villains. HUMANS ARE SO GULLIBLE THAT THEY BELIEVE ANY AUTHORITY FIGURE, JUST LOOK @ GULF War I & ii, both times USA lied to its public, 1st (it was) Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil, which was never told to the USA public even now it’s hidden unless you do research but not difficult to find if you go to deja news, then there was Gulf War II about weapons of mass destruction for which none were found (Bush only wanted Iraqi oil, but such actions are considered war crimes, but did any USA citizen care if USA committed war crimes; answer: no; what the hell, USA (INCLUDIGN ITS SOLDIERS) has been committing war crimes for the past 2 hundred years: EITHER EVERY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT OR ALL EXCEPT GEORGE WASHINGTON, BUT EXCLUDING Bill Clinton, AS THOUGH HE WASN’T GREAT RATHER OK {he committed less war crimes than the current President Bush} KIND OF PRESIDENT OR/& SUFFICIENTLY GOOD ENOUGH {FIGURATIVELY SPEAKING} KIND OF GOOD ENOUGH TO PASS MUSTARD PRESIDENT; but, the Democrats in House & Senate acted cowardly during both Persian Gulf War I & II ): Bush even lied about the uranium purchase [his father lied about Iraqi killing babies] to justify preemptive attack on Iraq, and even if Iraq had purchased uranium, it as a nation has right to protect itself from outside invaders, just like USA has right to protect itself, but when you start acting like an imperialist THEN YOU ARE NO LONGER ACTING DEFINSIVELY BUT OFFENSIVELY preemptive WHICH IS IMPERIALISIC & violation of international laws, not that USA cares about international laws unless it the USA is making those international laws with its puppet UN: THIS SAME TRICK, deception with a good PR, IS PERFORMED BY ALL MEMBERS OF THE DC Justice LEAGUE, but the readers are blind to it for some unknown reason(s), maybe they like to root for the winner so not to suffer any trauma or maybe everyone is evil in the sense that they are selfish deep down inside, sort of like a rape victim rationalizing that she likes being raped, or maybe all single women like being raped but hide that fact so as not to lower their market value, for we all know that most women love $ more than sex, and why it’s easier for women to focus on work than men because men are always thinking about sex, while women always thinking about $. USA GOVERNMENT < THOUGH NOT YET USA > EVEN LIED ABOUT NOT LIKING TAXES WHEN IT FOUGHT THE BRITISH, then it taxed its citizens. USA lied about how it got the Louisiana Purchase from the French, it, was stolen by the USA government, which has always lied to its people, and wasting tax $ by feeding wrong history education to our children. But, the USA government don’t care about your tax $, because its FREE $ to them, the corrupt politicians, who can’t believe that its citizens could be so gullible to believe outright lies as truth, but unfortunately most USA citizens are gullible, and now Americans are brainwashed to into thinking & believing that a man raping his wife or/& girlfriend is raping her which not true, as there is NO difference between a girlfriend & a wife, except for a piece of paper saying otherwise, so there is no rape if a man rapes his girlfriend, since before feminism, men were allowed to rape his wife, since most women are frigid or have mood swings, as long as she is his girlfriend during the time that he rape his woman, the same if she his wife, since the only difference between a girlfriend & a wife, is a piece of paper, a marriage license, which is consent by woman to allow her husband to rape her, which feminism don’t’ recognize anymore, so then there is no marriage, if there is no consent to rape one’s wife, then there is no difference between a girlfriend & a wife, so then marriage does not exist any longer, and if marriage does not exist, then what is the point of getting married, oh, the woman say to prove that you love me, but it is now excuse to collect alimony & child support, latter is also alimony or payment for sex which is prostitution which illegal in USA, and most men are NOT looking to marry a prostitute when HE/THEY get married. So, you see, American will believe any lies told by its government, so this, that the American public is gullible & will believe anything that any authority figure will tell them, is what the DC & MU have been trying to tell its readers for the past half a century, but this hidden message does not get across to its readers for some unknown reason, maybe lack of concern, or lack of a moral IQ, or desire NOT to appear not part of the group, or pass the buck onto some other person for the blame for anything that goes on, and not take any responsibility, which would make men feminists, since feminists don’t take responsibility for their actions which is an oxymoron since most men are not feminists or are they feminists, or how else can you explain this odd behavior on part of men, which would imply that men & women are very much similar to each other, both capable of love & destruction, each in their own way. But, the corrupt USA government has grown too big for anyone to criticize or fight.

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I think everybody should go to Hell in their own way.

For Christians who think the Sabbath is still binding -- note that some of these consider Saturday the Sabbath --, sure, go ahead, close your business, take the day off. For Christians who don't, go to church, go to meeting, go to the park, whatever. For non-Christians working for Christians, there should be fair employment laws whose details I am not competent to describe.

Fundamentally? People ought to get to observe holy days. Details to be worked out handwave handwave. The government and government institutions should not favor one holy day over another. For instance, public universities holding exams over Yom Kippur, something that has happened more than once? Right Out. It's fine to have Christmas break, because December vacation is pretty much ingrained into American society at this point, but if people want to work Christmas in exchange for getting [insert your favorite holiday] off, that should be a possibility.

Also I want a pony.

Josef bugman posted:

Eh, that too.

Luthor ain't my favourite of the many and varied people who tried to start new stuff in the Church.