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I'm fine with Wally as Kid Flash, I just still don't really understand why they went through the effort of hitting Wally and Jesse with the Flash making waves last season only to pull an "alternate reality" version. My guess is when Barry corrects Flashpoint Wally Flash will be gone but then later in the season his powers will emerge as a result of last season's incident, and then Jesse Quick will pop in from Earth 2 and we'll have like a 4 or 5 speedster teamup (Barry, Wally, Jesse, Jay, and maybe Thawne) against the new evil speedster.
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Sep 25, 2016 00:59
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I'm actually sort of looking forward to that. Like, it could be the "logical" (for Barry) move for Barry when he realizes he's made a mess of things but no one in his reality has enough experience or knowledge to help, so he pops over to E2 to get Wells' help and Wells reads him the riot act. And then Jesse Quick runs in really fast. Really the thing is that Jesse Quick was always one of those random C-list comic characters I liked so I'm anxiously awaiting them following through on the tease.
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Sep 25, 2016 02:57
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New Wells is clearly from the Scrubs Earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxPXHbf3nS8
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Oct 26, 2016 08:15
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To be honest I'm pretty unclear on how they afford to keep the lights on. Are they just selling patents for cold guns and sonic destabilizing wahoozies in between episodes? How do Cisco and Kaitlin even afford their apartments? Who writes them paychecks?
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Nov 6, 2016 23:48
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Is Oliver broke or is he just not mega rich? Like, I know he lost his family's company and mansion and properties but you actually have to really, really gently caress up to go from that rich to needing to get a job. I mean, shouldn't he have gotten a millions dollar buyoff when Queen Consolidated got bought twice?
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Nov 7, 2016 14:33
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Yeah, for now I'm dismissing all the "her powers are changing her brain chemistry" as stupid things her loved ones (who are NOT biochemists) make up to try and excuse her behavior and in reality she was just having a bit of a mental break because she thought she was literally turning into her evil twin who she had met. That poo poo is kind of traumatic. A lot of the metahumans can be chalked up to people who lost their poo poo after gaining powers and Team Flash just didn't get to them until after they'd committed all their crimes. In Caitlin's case they were able to get through to her before she did something really bad. Now if the show decides to go full Silver Age and just say "her heart is turned cold by her powers" then I'll laugh when that happens. But for now I'm going with "metaphor" until proven otherwise. And yeah, Julian seems to be similarly conflicted. I'm fine with him being Alchemy because its basically what people were saying they should have just done with Jay/Hunter/Zoom and not try and turn it into some hugely emotional betrayal. Julian was always the top suspect for both story and meta reasons and now we know. Now the question is who Savitar is, what the connection between him and Julian is, and what Julian's full motivations are. Because I can definitely see anything from Julian being a slave to Savitar to Savitar being a delusion/construct of Julian's Alchemy powers and mental illness. Which could play right into the theme of "getting powers fucks with your head."
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Nov 26, 2016 04:58
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I too expect people experiencing psychotic breaks to behave rationally. Edit: And drat, Under the Dome and Dexter levels? Now we're saying things we can't take back. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Nov 26, 2016 |
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Nov 26, 2016 05:10
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If CW has an interests in a fifth show* I can't imagine it would be "Justice League Detroit." Although, given the evidence I find it impossible to deny that there appears to be a fan of that group in the Arrow-verse creative department. Which is some random poo poo for sure. *While a nerdy part of me would love an Arrow-verse show on every night of the week I'm inclined to agree that if they shouldn't do it unless they kill something else off. Ending the Legends' journey and turning it into a new show or the "Arrow becomes The Outsiders" stuff people were randomly speculating about sort of stuff. But I have no reason to assume that's on the horizon and for now Legends seems to be an easy place to use any side characters that they like but don't have a place for on Flash and Arrow (and presumably eventually Supergirl, because I'd really like to see a character jump from that show and have Legends just become an Exiles type show/book). STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 22:19
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I have a serious aversion to musical episodes myself, and some of that may be Glee PTSD. It took me a couple of weeks to watch the recent musical episode of Always Sunny. I started it like 3 times and reflexively went "ugh, musicals" and turned it off.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:58
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I mean, on some level I've just accepted that Caitlin is really just a really messed up person who has no life outside work and is super co-dependent so constantly starts relationships with people she works with. If I was being generous I'd claim that was somehow connected to her mom's seeming work-over-family behavior but in truth I know the Flash Writers never thought of that before this season if they have at all. But in fairness Cisco seems just as bad except he only hits on unavailable super powered ladies they cross paths with.
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Feb 10, 2017 22:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:Cisco had multiple episode about his family drama, and his constant nerd references imply that he at least watches movies on occasion, and he has friendships with various Wells. I mean, his family drama is that he's estranged from them because its all pretty dysfunctional so the only major difference is they touched on that earlier than they did with Caitlin. The "watches movie" thing just means he watches Netflix when he gets home. But fair on the Wells thing. They've done a lot of character work there with his complicated relationship with the various versions of Wells. While they were doing that they were doing Caitlin with Ronnie and then Jay/Hunter so here we are. Spergatory posted:Cisco is only attracted to ladies who could and would kill him. I feel like that's an avenue of his psychology that is worth exploring. Well to be fair Hawkgirl didn't want to kill him but she did have a very jealous super powered ex. I'd argue that Cisco being solely attracted to powered women speaks to his overall obsession with metas and Team Flash. I think he and Caitlin are equally loserish and obsessed about the team and have no lives outside of it. So Caitlin falls for the guys she works with and Cisco falls for the powered ladies who wow him. I mean, I'm making this all up right now but still... STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 23:46
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We get an episode fully devoted to showing scenes from Caitlin's past to show us her going to Dr. Alchemy but also proving that she does in fact exist outside of Star Labs.
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Feb 11, 2017 00:15
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I was just joking. Yeah, I don't need everything to happen on screen to assume that things happen off screen. But its a legitimate criticism of the show that they've done a bad job establishing Cisco and especially Caitlin's lives outside of Team Flash in the way they've done with the Wests and Barry. So I just made a joke about it about how if they showed us one of those "missing pieces" episodes with Caitlin it would theoretically show all kinds of parts of her life we've never gotten before.
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Feb 11, 2017 04:55
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Guy Goodbody posted:They established he had a family, and what they were like, and his history with them. We saw his family, we saw him interacting with his family. Cisco's relationships outside Team Flash drove the story of an episode, and were a factor in the post-Flashpoint drama. It wasn't until this season that they confirmed Caitlyn was of woman born. The fact that Cisco makes movie references is proof that he does something when not on screen. They haven't done that with Caitlyn. For all we know, she could turn to stone when the camera isn't on her. I just don't think "nerd references" is really a worthwhile character trait to laud. I agree that Caitlin is very poorly developed, I just think that while Cisco is better developed than Caitlyn he's still a pretty shallow character compared to Barry and the Wests.
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Feb 12, 2017 00:27
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Chokes McGee posted:I mean to be fair it's The Flash not The Cisco it should be The Cisco Yeah, its just that Caitlin and Cisco kind of stand out since (a) Barry is the star, (b) The Wests are the focus of all his family and romance drama so they get a ton of time, and (c) Wells gets reset every season with a whole new backstory and development. So then you just end up with these two characters who are kind of out of the loop and getting the short end of the development stick. Which has led to some awkward looking "family dinners" with Cisco and Caitlyn on the outer edges. Cisco, at least, had a little stuff before this season with his family, powers, and Wells stuff. Caitlin had nothing before this season except multiple doomed romance storylines so they ended up seeming like her entire character.
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Feb 12, 2017 02:04
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Blasphemy.
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Feb 23, 2017 02:13
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They never bothered to explain WHY the cage stopped Barry so its pointless to try and figure out why it stopped Cisco and Caitlyn. Its a cheap move to just handwave it away but the handwave works for all of them.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:29
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Chokes McGee posted:Barry also doesn't have the pinpoint control Cisco does. Yeah, Barry has to run fast and try and get the right exit. And we've seen his accuracy on that is pretty sketchy. Any time Barry's ran through time or space on his own he's often missed his target and landed in Supergirl's world or the future by accident. Cisco seems to have mastered the ability to just aim for a destination and hit it.
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Feb 25, 2017 00:50
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Maybe he just ran really fast four times. Or they just got dragged along in his backdraft. Or maybe he built one of those cute little Reverse Flash balls super fast and then deconstructed it super fast.
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Feb 25, 2017 04:25
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Yeah, Barry's morality is basically "Look, if a homicidal super villain puts me in a situation where I kill in self defense or to save people or he/she dies because of his/her own actions, than I can live with that. But I don't want to execute anyone." As said, they've done a clumsy job with it leading to all the jokes about Barry being a serial killer but it's a defensible moral code and fits well with his familiarity with law enforcement. And I think acknowledging that Barry's fights sometimes end in death is a more or less logical move when the show exists in the same world as Arrow. Otherwise the joke would be "its hilarious that Oliver is a serial killer when Barry always manages to magically save the day without killing anyone." GobiasIndustries posted:I really like that Harry's 'I'm dying' plot would have actually worked, but nope he was just being his typical rear end in a top hat self I love that it wasn't even a plot by Harry, its just something that Wally kind of accidently walked into and Harry was just like "eh, this could maybe work... why not?"
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Mar 1, 2017 23:49
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:No he definitely did it on purpose. He said something first and Wally interpreted it as "Don't worry we will visit you a lot" and then Harry tried again and Wally took the bait. That's not how I read it. I saw it as Harry just saying something totally innocent and ambiguous like "time I have with her" and Wally misinterpreting it. Then Harry realized what had happened and leaned into it and led Wally further down the path with intentionally ambiguous language. He purposely mislead Wally, but it wasn't his intention when the conversation started. It just started to happen and he ran with it. Which is totally the hilarious way because Harry's less of the guy who steals money so much as he's the guy who realizes that they accidently under charged him for something so then buys a ton more of it and re-sells it for a profit. tldr; it was deliberate on Harry's part but it wasn't pre-meditated. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Mar 2, 2017 |
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Mar 2, 2017 00:02
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Yeah, at some point they seemed that shift from kidnapping everyone to kidnapping just the people who they don't want to put in jail because either they're friends, have some value to them, or know Barry's identity.
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Mar 3, 2017 18:10
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Yeah, but she seems to fall into the "knows Barry's secret identity (and everyone else)" category. That's seems to be the primary reason they permanently unlawfully hold people these days. Of course she's also from a parallel universe so her rights probably aren't technically being violated.
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Mar 4, 2017 04:33
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Tiggum posted:I don't think it's legal to hold people prisoner just because they happen to be foreign. 1) I was entirely joking. 2) I imagine inter-dimensional rights aren't covered in any world treaty so it would probably be a crime without a law. Supergirl's President Wonder Woman would almost certainly be a fighter for it, though. Tree Dude posted:How does this alternate reality square with the Music Meister headline we saw? All the headline says is "Music Meister gets six figure deal". That implies he's a public figure but not necessarily a publicly known villain or anything. There could even be a deal where like he's a villain on Supergirl's Earth and a regular artist on Flash's or something. Who knows? STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Mar 5, 2017 |
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Mar 5, 2017 05:11
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lotus circle posted:I think it has to do with Wally getting his powers from Alchemy+Savitar. It's kind of been a pattern that people who got their powers from them can be prone to mental instability. Savitar must be tapping into that. And I imagine he wants someone who can free him from the speed force. Yeah, that's the most natural conclusion. Wally has a tie to Savitar both through the speed force and through Alchemy. So if Savitar is looking for back door out of the speed force Wally's the most obvious link.
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Mar 7, 2017 01:15
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The whole "you were supposed to ask me for permission" thing was such a weird, pointless, and uncharacteristic thing for Joe in the first place that I'm fine assuming that Barry just decided that if Joe complains about it again after they literally had a conversation where Joe said of course he approved and encouraged Barry to hold out hope that she'd want to be engaged than he's probably suffering some kind of brain damage.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 21:54
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I think current Snart is a pretty fair representation of how he was back when he started before he made his "no bodies" deal with Barry, or did any of his family stuff, or bonded with the Legends. Original Snart was a killer, which is part of why Barry made that deal in the first place. Redeemed Legends Snart was still an rear end and a thief but he had a pretty clear moral center that even led him to turn against Mick's lack of one.
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Mar 30, 2017 20:48
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nine-gear crow posted:That is one of the things I've really enjoyed about their dynamic since Snart came back; how they managed to flip it on its head and have Mick be the moral one who's sick of Leonard's callous criminal bullshit this time around. Eh, I'm a little torn on that. I like the poetry of Mick and Snart trading places morally, I just don't really buy that Mick is there. Like on some level I accept that Mick cares about his Legends shipmates... but he didn't seem to mind leaving them to their own personal hells until he got bored with being in his own where there was no thrill in stealing. I mean, Sara was murdering her friends. Mick was cool with that. Mick's still kind of an evil guy. But that does sort of make his place on the team interesting.
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Mar 30, 2017 21:36
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Yeah, I mean Mick's an interesting guy because he's clearly deeply damaged not only from his upbringing but from his run as Chronos (when they remember that). But like, the only reason he went good this last time is because he was bored being evil.
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Mar 30, 2017 22:08
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In hindsight that relationship feels like it was just forced to give Julian emotional motivation to try and cure Kaitlin and risk doing the Alchemy thing again. So my guess is that he manages to save Kaitlin but loses himself in the process.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:15
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I mean, Black Lightning's a cool character who fits into the kind of "B-Team" nature of the Arrow-verse and has built in support team and family drama with his daughters. Plus it diversifies up your field of heroes with a character that has a bunch of topical stories to tell. I didn't know DC/CW had already ordered a fifth show but it doesn't surprise me at all that its Black Lightning. I mean, they made a Ray cartoon.
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Apr 4, 2017 01:47
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Eh, she's not really like him at all. They just have the same powers. Cisco is an awkward nerd scientist and Gypsy is a cold warrior bounty hunter. Cisco's creepy with Gypsy but I don't think that's part of it. It even sort of makes sense that he's drawn to someone who understands his powers better than him and can teach him stuff. But he's just way too desperate.
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Apr 14, 2017 21:16
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"Desperate" was harsh. I like Cisco. But I don't know. Gypsy's whole storyline that last time was that she wasn't really feeling the flirting. It didn't feel to me like there was some established off camera relationship or she felt like they were in a relationship. Gypsy's not repulsed by Cisco or anything but my take is just that she enjoys flirting with some guy who literally lives on another world when her world makes it illegal to jump back and forth, and Cisco is just all "hot girl with powers like me!" and kind of gets blind to the stuff around it.
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Apr 14, 2017 22:34
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I'm not sure I buy that the Black Flash is Zoom/Hunter just because they both wear similar/the same costumes. I mean, its possible, but it could just as easily be a sloppy comic adaption with no intended connection beyond the overall Flash one. But also, yeah, even if Black Flash IS Zoom/Hunter I don't see how that keeps Savitar from being a Zoom/Hunter from some other timeline or period in time or time remanent or escaped from the Speedforce or whatever nonsense they used to justify Thawne on Legends or him showing back up in Flashpoint. The one consistent thing I understand about Flash timetravel/speedster logic is if you're still trying to make sense of it then the joke is on you. edit: I have no idea who Savitar is. Zoom/Hunter is as good a guess as any but I hate this kind of speculation because it only leads to people being underwhelmed when they guess right or disappointed if they thought of something better. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 09:58
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Arthur Bowlsworth posted:What? He was turned into the black flash on-screen... I don't remember that but I'll take your word for it. I still stand by my position that there's a million established Flash/Speedforce ways to get around it so its moot. But I genuinely might have just forgotten that.
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Apr 27, 2017 12:05
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Longbaugh01 posted:These "Why don't they do this with Iris?" quips are funny, but let's give a little credit here and remember that we can assume Savitar has the same powerset as Barry (or greater), and therefore can appear anywhere in physical space, time, and dimensions. (The first one just being speed, the second being Barry has been able to do this on his own even if he didn't mean to, and the third is somewhat similar to the second where Barry crossed over to Supergirl's Earth. Plus Savitar had that weird connection with the Speedforce where they couldn't track him and he could appear or disappear at will, but I'm not sure what the current status of that is because "lol the flash writers" and speedforce.gif.) I think the Savitar disappearing trick was just when he was in the Speed Force and could only slip out through Alchemy. He's free of that now. But yeah, he's been firmly established as a more powerful and competent Barry/Thawne/Zoom so short of having Supergirl load her into a spaceship or something he'd probably just be able to get around it. And even if you could save her on that one day in May it doesn't stop Savitar from killing her in June or whenever. It's not like he turns back into s pumpkin.
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Apr 27, 2017 20:16
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Like, no one knowing where the hell Savitar came from in the first place is the entire mystery behind him and his identity. No one knows what his deal is. But yeah, Wally freed him by throwing in the last bit of the Philosopher's Stone and taking his place.
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Apr 27, 2017 20:38
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Longbaugh01 posted:Damnit you just reminded me of a few things. There's a definite poetry to Jay being trapped and going mad and becoming the thing they were trapping in the first place. And would fit the speedster thing. But it seems like a major paradox, if the show cares at all about that. Like, if Jay has to get trapped to become Savitar and Savitar has to exist to create the trap for Jay to get stuck in then how did Savitar ever happen in the first place? quote:Now I said STAC reminded me of a few things. Here are the others: - Presumably Cisco could open a portal to the Speed Force to throw Savitar in but they'd still have to get Savitar under control without him just killing Cisco. - Ronnie as Savitar makes no real sense to me for that very "speedster" reason. But like I said, I hate this kind of speculation because I think it only builds impossible expectations or spoils surprises. - Same with Eddie, I guess, but that one never seemed to have any real basis beyond "he's a guy from Barry's past who could be mad."
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Apr 27, 2017 21:28
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'd out on this, but I had the time and I enjoyed thinking it through. Yeah, I also realize what the answer ends up being will probably not be nothing like this at all. Still fun.
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Guy Goodbody posted:It wasn't a retcon, the JSA was just a clandestine organization that the public didn't know about. They can easily do the same thing with Black Lightning, saying he was active decades ago but he isn't remembered as anything but an urban legend or rumor. I mean, even within Star City they introduced the idea that Wildcat was running around years before Oliver and just never got noticed on the level he did. Fighting crime in a big city doesn't have to make you a celebrity, especially if you did it pre-camera phones and viral media.
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May 1, 2017 00:09
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Eh, it seems more like the CW was gun shy after Smallville and never expected the Arrow-verse and Flash to take off like it did. They've been doing "there's always been super powered stuff people didn't know about" for as far back as at least Mirakuru. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:49 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 00:47
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