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irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

B: "Oh no I can't stop these tornados or whatever"
I: "Barry, I don't know what your timeline's Iris is like, but I have this feeling that she'd give you a pep talk right now."
B: *runs really fast*

Spergatory posted:

Wally turning his back on his super-fast enemy was double-stupid, Barry doing the exact same thing even after he saw Wally get got was triple stupid.
This was such terrible writing. I mean, you don't want heroes to be completely perfect, but writing them as terribly incompetent is not a good thing.

It really was a pretty dumb episode, probably the best thing about it was Thawne. I liked the whole "Am I kidnapped?" exchange with Caitlin too.

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irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Barry "becomes" him when he returns to the Present.

Don't try to overthink time travel stories. Therein lies madness.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

I like Cavanaugh but it kinda sucks that he essentially has a different character every season.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Guy Goodbody posted:

I really hope Draco turns out to be a good guy who just doesn't like Barry
British people are too polite to openly dislike others.

Although I guess since Barry seems to constantly say "I hate that guy" in front of him, you can't really blame him.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Where did Barry take Iris on their date, and subsequently leave her?

I thought it was a pretty good episode, but I like Wells and Jessie a lot. Although it sucked that Jessie was given her costume, but didn't get to wear it. Next week, I guess. Are they sticking around for a while?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Hasn't Oliver been broke since S2? I mean I'm sure he's ok now that he's Mayor.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Supergirl and Legends started a week later than Flash and Arrow too. They're getting the episode numbers all outta sync!!!

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Why the hell did Joe invite everyone on his date with the DA?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Crisis on Infinite Thawns

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Zoom's plan of having a Jay in Earth 1 and then killing him was just dumb.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Proposition Joe posted:

The Flash tricked me into watching another lovely episode of Supergirl. I won't be fooled next year CW!!! :colbert:
Supergirl is the best out of the 4 shows though.

FactsAreUseless posted:

Everyone's motivations actually make sense. They're more focused on the overall season plot. Characters are allowed to have fun.
Also they didn't have Henry inexplicably peace out after Barry finally proved his innocence. I know there were probably budget/casting reasons for it but it just seemed so ridiculous.

Also the entire Zoom storyline was just poorly written.

This season is a good deal better but not up there with Season 1.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Cisco: "Wow Wally is even faster than Barry was when he got his powers"
Barry: :sigh:

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Cisco hasn't even made himself a proper costume.

Luminaflare posted:

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised at Cisco not being all "YOU ALL NEED NEW OUTFITS" to the new Arrow guys during the crossover. He seems to have made pretty much everyone elses outside of the Legends cast and that seems entirely because they have an outfit machine.


What's the other?
Probably :thejoke: but Agents of SHIELD.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Luminaflare posted:

Not joking, I'm a few seasons behind on SHIELD and didn't know when it was airing this year.
It gets poo poo on a lot (sometimes for good reasons) so I wasn't sure!

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

I picked up Seasons 1 and 2 and have been rewatching while at my folks for Christmas. I think my dad is hooked. :unsmigghh:

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

The scene of Savitar killing Iris is going to be the new Reverse Flash killing Norah Allen, in terms of how complicated it's going to get.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Are all the DC shows on a break next week then? That sucks

Rhyno posted:

Tom Felton is such a delight on this show. He's just such a dick.
His interactions with Caitlin last week were brilliant. "Looks like I'm not the only one who needs lessons in personal interactions".

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

idk I'm not digging the Killer frost stuff. If it was just something in Caitlin's head I'd like it better. It makes no sense (speedforce.png) that she turns evil for no reason.

Also did they actually explain where her powers came from? Was it just a delayed effect from the original Particle Accelerator explosion?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Coyote Ugly posted:

Is it just me seeing this or do they try to give Caitlyn some kind of romantic interest each season, only to have it blow up in her face. I could see her hooking up with Julian. He's grown on me as a character as I assumed he'd just be a throwaway antagonist for the 3rd season as Dr. Alchemy. But I kind of hope they keep him around. He's like their cynical dick character that they haven't had in awhile since the first Wells.
Yeah I'm liking him a lot, but considering he's being credited as "Special Appearance By" I can't see him sticking around. At the end of the season, he'll either turn evil and die or sacrifice himself to save Iris or something.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Yeah those were the names which they recognised.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Wait, in the comics are there two different characters, the Black Racer and the Black Flash?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Gorilla City was where they sent Grodd in S2, right? Was that on Earth-2 or another Earth?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Yeah that seemed like a bad plan. Please send the evil mind-controlling gorilla to my Earth.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Yeah it was kind of annoying that whatever Grodd had seemed to completely neutralise Cisco's powers, but only seemed to prevent Barry from phasing. I guess it was a problem where they wanted to have Barry fight Solovar with powers, but it still seems kind of dumb.

Also the whole "Caitlin, your powers probably work! You should use them to kill Cisco!" was just completely :psyduck:

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

I think he had his powers in the cage though? iirc he was vibrating but just couldn't phase through it.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Barry is also a massive gently caress-up and is likely to somehow destroy the multiverse while simply attempting to go to another Earth.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

It felt like the Speed Force was laying a serious guilt trip on Barry over Eddie's death. I mean, Barry's done a lot of terrible poo poo but he didn't create Reverse Flash or actively make him hate him and want to murder him as a child or whatever.

But yeah that episode was kind of bad. The relationship drama turned up to 11, some of the Speed Force stuff making very little sense and people just generally acting dumb. I wish they'd written an actual reason for Jessie having to face off against Savitar (like he came to retrieve the piece of the suit or something. ANYTHING would have been better.) because as it stood I was basically just screaming at her for being stupid throughout the fight.

I like the characters but the writing just feels so lazy sometimes.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Avalerion posted:

Not yet - think he had some actual beef with future Flash, though?
Yeah, but that was presumably in terms of "You've foiled me too many times, FLASH!" There was never any mention of Barry actually doing anything to him personally, as far as I remember. Eobard's just a dick (albeit a glorious one).

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

The Superfriends song owned.

Joe and Stein as a gay gangster couple owned.

Everything else kind of sucked.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Aside from the Killer Frost stuff, which is dragging on somewhat painfully long, the only storyline which Caitlin has really had in the almost 3 seasons has basically been doomed romances. I doubt Tom Felton will be sticking around after this season so he's either going to turn evil, die or both. She really hasn't had any other stories developed, has she? I mean, they introduced her mother this season but it was also in the context of her Killer Frost subplot, and wasn't really developed further. Cisco has at least had a couple of short romance subplots, plus his sotryline involving Dante, and his continuing relationships with different versions of Harrison Wells, and developing his Vibe powers. I really feel like the writers are dropping the ball with Caitlin's character. I mean, at this point Jesse is probably a better developed character.

STAC Goat posted:

I think current Snart is a pretty fair representation of how he was back when he started before he made his "no bodies" deal with Barry, or did any of his family stuff, or bonded with the Legends. Original Snart was a killer, which is part of why Barry made that deal in the first place.
I think there were a couple of things which sort of redeemed Snart pre-Legends. Obviously there was the deal with Barry, but that was still somewhat in limbo. He does kind of betray Barry at the end of Season 1 too. I think the drama with his father kinda softened him somewhat also, then when Rip was asking them to join the Legends he was pretty skeptical at first about it. I think bonding with Sara in particular turned him around a bit, to the point where he was willing to remove Mick from the team for the good of the team.

STAC Goat posted:

Yeah, I mean Mick's an interesting guy because he's clearly deeply damaged not only from his upbringing but from his run as Chronos (when they remember that).
I think both his time as Chronos plus seeing Snart sacrifice himself changed Mick a lot. I do feel a bit disappointed at his heel-turn. They are kind of touching a little bit on the fact that the rest of the team don't really trust him, but I feel like they haven't gone deep enough into it yet. I feel like that's the bridge that they need to cross to continue to justify having him on the team. If he doesn't kind of redeem himself in the rest of the team's eyes at this point, I think it'll feel a bit forced if he comes back for another Season. They've all come out and admitted that they don't trust him, so why is he even there?

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

I don't mind relationship drama (although there is a LOT of it in CW shows), I just wish they'd give some characters other development outside of it.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

bring back old gbs posted:

but Barry runs to the other side of the country for ice cream on a whim...
Look you would too if the ice cream resulted in this reaction

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Patty was ok but her story and departure were kind of weirdly abrupt.

I liked Barry and Felicity. :( But maybe they only really had chemistry in a "We both have unrequited love for someone, we should just settle and get together" kind of way.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Comics are awesome.

The big problem with this season is the whole future knowledge bullshit. It never works well and is never written well. It's pretty much dominating every interaction with Iris and making her completely one-dimensional. As someone mentioned, it's made the show lose a lot of the monster-of-the-week stuff which made Season 1 entertaining.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

This season of Arrow has a fairly original (or at least re-purposed) villain so it's not like Flash can't do the same. I guess the problem is that most regular people should be no match for Barry, but the writers have never had a problem with making Barry pretty incompetent and in need of a pep talk whenever it suited the script. :v:

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Yeah it wasn't terribly well explained or anything (speedforce.gif) but at least they didn't just straight up have Barry forget his powers.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Wheat Loaf posted:

I'm almost sure he was just cooling his heels in the cell and didn't even try phasing through the wall until he saw Zoom do it. Prepared to acknowledge I might not be remembering properly.
No it was definitely a thing where he was trying to phase his hand through but couldn't, then Zoom came along and phased inside effortlessly.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Wheat Loaf posted:

I'm almost sure he was just cooling his heels in the cell and didn't even try phasing through the wall until he saw Zoom do it. Prepared to acknowledge I might not be remembering properly.

Guy A. Person posted:

The "technobabble" was specifically that Earth 2 vibrated at a different natural frequency than Earth 1 so Barry couldn't vibrate through things as well there or whatever.

But the timeline of scenes was definitely: 1. Barry sitting around doing nothing 2. Zoom phasing in to smack him around 3. Barry saying "Zoom just showed me how to escape :smug:" 4. Barry trying and failing to phase.

It may have been implied that he tried to phase before, but there was definitely a progression of events that made it seem like Barry just forgot one of his powers.
You're right actually, I remember now. That was so bloody stupid.

irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

It's so annoying to me that Barry got absolutely chumped by Top and Mirror Master not once but twice in the same episode. The first time, yeah, he was somewhat taken by surprise. The second time though, he goes there specifically to take them on. It's just really lazy writing having him seem completely incompetent to present a challenge. Also the "reveal" (or lack thereof) at the end was so stupid.

The rest of the episode was pretty good, the whole aspect of getting the band back together was nice, although it felt a bit cheap since it was resolved by just abducting everyone. Wally's situation was pretty sad though. :smith:

Also if Barry can just travel back in time when he wants, why did he need Wally to help him travel forward in time in the first place?

e: Also they probably won't bring back Ronnie, Savitar is probably Julian, keeping with the theme of "We have to kill of Caitlin's love interest every season".

irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Apr 27, 2017

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irlZaphod
Mar 26, 2004

Kiss the Joycon to Kiss Zelda

Savitar is Adrian Chase, because why the gently caress not.

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