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Once upon a time, some goons in the TG Industry thread thought we should have our own awards which would surely be widely respected and coveted. Please disregard the rest of this OP and proceed to this post instead. inklesspen posted:I've prepared a draft of the rules for our award, the Groggies: I expect revisions to these rules will occur before the nominations open. Obviously it would be foolish to run an award without a popular mandate. remusclaw posted:In the best game category, there are two prizes, best game and best licensed game. Is giving an award for best licensed game, essentially giving licensed games two chances for a prize rather than one, while an original game only has the one category it can win in? Should there be a best original game category? Aren't these categories at least 50% likely to overlap, or are we not considering licensed games in the best game category? This is a good question and I would like to see more discussion about this point. Is it worthwhile to explicitly recognize games based on licensed properties? inklesspen fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Sep 27, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 03:12
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inklesspen posted:This is a good question and I would like to see more discussion about this point. Is it worthwhile to explicitly recognize games based on licensed properties? I think it's worthwhile. The most important thing is probably to make sure that Big Name Licensed Products don't overshadow more indie stuff, so as long as that doesn't happen, it's fine.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:14
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I think maybe instead of having best game, and then best original game and best licensed game, it might be best to get rid of the big award and just do the two, original and licensed. Including all three means that best game will almost certainly be one of the other award winners as well. On the other hand, maybe you could look at that as some kind of playoff. The two best game awards are compared, and then an overall winner is declared. So you keep all three, and make it a feature that one of the two are chosen for the top award.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:20
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Here's an idea: You don't nominate or vote for Best Original Game or Best Licensed Game; you just vote for Best Game. Once the votes are tallied, the winner will also be the winner of whichever of the other two categories it fits, and the top runner-up that fits the other category is the winner of that category. For example, if the Best Game results came back like:
in this scenario, Breakfast Cult would win Best Game and Best Original Game, while Adventures in Middle Earth would win Best Licensed Game. If AiME came out on top, it would win Best Game and Best Licensed Game, while BC would win just Best Original Game. Thoughts?
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Sep 25, 2016 03:27
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It probably does work better that way than as a playoff, both because it takes into account the original vote totals, rather than allowing people who voted for other things to come in and upset the previous top vote winner, and also because it doesn't require people to actually organize to vote again after putting in their ballot. The playoff option would be good if you wanted to give everyone who voted, even those who didn't include either winning game in their ballot, a choice between the top two, after they have been chosen.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:32
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I'd like to see this list expanded to include the other side of traditional games, board games.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:34
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Impermanent posted:I'd like to see this list expanded to include the other side of traditional games, board games. I have already stated what is required for this to happen. Think of it as a stretch goal, but instead of pledging money, you just have to come up with a coherent set of categories for board games.
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Sep 25, 2016 03:39
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How about just no "the most best game" awards? I know the entire exercise is already highly subjective, but seriously what the gently caress does that category really mean in an industry that runs the gamut from Rolemaster to Dread to Dark Souls to Catan. Edit: Also "Critical Hits" is the best so far. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 04:03
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Any award given by SA should really just be called the Golden Manbabies. I believe that a "Best Presentation of Rules" or "Best Formatting" category should also be included as a general category for all traditional games.
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Sep 25, 2016 04:25
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IMHO We should keep the categories simple and broad. People aren't going to know what to nominate for "Best Cartography." Something like this: Roleplaying Games - Best Free Game - Best Original Game - Best Licensed Game ^ These three should use the voting system described above. I don't think you need to nominate a Best RPG on top of this but that's up to the committee. Optional Categories - Best Supplement/Adventure - Best Art Board/Card Games - Best Minigame - Best Cooperative Game - Best Competitive Game ^ These could also use the voting system above. Optional Categories - Best Art - Best Expansion Wargames - Best Miniatures - Another Category suggested by someone who plays wargames - And another Other notes: I don't think you're going to need an independent verification code or anything. Just have the voter list their forums name in the form. Make a thread for registration and then you can just check to make sure they posted in it. There should be a committee or something to head this up. Three people discussing and making decisions is much more reputable than one. Also it can help allay the Goon Project factor. Critical Hit Award. Yes. If you're going to do a Best Game is should be a Sweepstakes award for the game that, overall, got the most votes. (You can make it the greatest proportion of votes if the number of votes is wildly off, e.g. if 57/100 people voted for the highest-rated wargame and 101/200 voted for the highest-rated RPG you'd give it to the wargame.) Gau fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 05:37
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Gau posted:I don't think you're going to need an independent verification code or anything. Just have the voter list their forums name in the form. Make a thread for registration and then you can just check to make sure they posted in it. Unfortunately it turns out that sometimes people tell lies on the internet. For example, someone could fill out the form claiming to be Gau, while not actually being Gau. This would be very annoying for me to resolve. Gau posted:There should be a committee or something to head this up. There is.
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Sep 25, 2016 05:58
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I would like some board and card game representation as well. As far as categories, off the top of my head, I can think of: Best Board Game Best Card Game Best Expansion Best Thematic Game Best Presentation Best 2 Player Game Best Party Game Best New Mechanic/Rule You can go for more niche categories like "Best cooperative game" or something, but I have no idea if enough games of a certain type come out every year. The above would be a good spread and would integrate pretty well with the Critical Hits without bloating them up too much.
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Sep 25, 2016 06:32
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GrandpaPants posted:I would like some board and card game representation as well. As far as categories, off the top of my head, I can think of: This seems like a reasonable set of categories. Can you think of any situation under which these categories would require a judgement call on the part of the people running the awards?
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Sep 25, 2016 06:47
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inklesspen posted:This seems like a reasonable set of categories. Can you think of any situation under which these categories would require a judgement call on the part of the people running the awards? There are some games that are sort of mostly card games, but with one or two boardgamey elements, and vice-versa. There are some games that are best played as 2-player games, but which support more (or fewer!) players. There are sometimes "expansions" which also work as standalone games. I feel as though those situations are usually resolvable, though, and ultimately if you just made a rule that any given product can't win in more than one category, that'd be fine. You could also just have nominations be non-category-specific, and leave it to the appropriate judges to categorize any product after it is successfully nominated. The only problem would be if some categories are very crowded fields with many nominees while others have few, because in those cases, a given product would have a "better chance" if it is categorized in the less crowded category. Again though, I don't feel like that's likely to be that big of a deal, especially if the contest is otherwise well and fairly run. Here's some brainstorming for categories: Family Boardgames (typically all-ages, simple rules, sold at target or walmart) Hobbyist boardgames (typically not sold at big-box stores, typically more complex or involved rules) Boardgame-like card games (games which usually have a fixed set of cards, often other game components besides the cards, and which involve boardgame-like play. I realize this is still pretty vague. I am thinking of games like Thunderstone, games which use the cards to form a map or puzzle on the table, etc.) LCGs (card games for which supplements and packs, if they are sold, have preset and known contents) CCGs (card games for which supplements or packs contain contents randomized from among a superset of possible cards) Miniatures-based skirmish wargames Miniatures-based mass battle games Historical re-enactment tabletop non-miniature games Hobbyist supplies for miniatures-based gaming (includes terrain, paint, etc. specifically made for minis gaming) Game supplement for an existing board game Game supplement for an exsiting card game Game supplement for an existing miniatures-based tabletop wargame (I think it'd be worthwhile to recognize outstanding game supplements even if the base game has been out for more than a year. I'm thinking everything from expansions to a board game, to new miniatures or starter packs or whatever for a tabletop wargame) Outstanding completed trad game crowdfunding campaign (recognize kickstarters and other crowdfunders that complete and deliver successfully an excellent trad game product) Best technical writing in a trad game Best creative writing in a trad game (or possibly instead) Best worldbuilding in a trad game Best customer service by a trad game company I'm brainstorming here, I don't think we should actually have this many categories, it starts to get ridiculous, but I think there's significant numbers of goons in TG discussing each of the above as a matter of course, so there's probably enough opinions to go around to generate nominations, votes, and winners in all of them. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 08:54
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For the old schoolers, maybe a hall of fame award. Anything older than a couple of years in select categories. RPG's, Board Games, Miniatures games. The only reason I think it might be appropriate, is that trad games are pretty evergreen and there aren't always a million things coming out, might be worth getting some old favorites in there.
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Sep 25, 2016 09:06
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Leperflesh posted:and leave it to the appropriate judges This has been the sticking point thus far; plenty of folks have said board/card games should be covered, but it took until GrandpaPants's post for anyone to suggest a set of categories and nobody has expressed interest in resolving board/card game categorization difficulties.
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Sep 25, 2016 09:19
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inklesspen posted:For example, if the Best Game results came back like: Sounds good to me.  Stickied this thread for a bit while you discuss how this is going to work.
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Sep 25, 2016 14:09
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inklesspen posted:This has been the sticking point thus far; plenty of folks have said board/card games should be covered, but it took until GrandpaPants's post for anyone to suggest a set of categories and nobody has expressed interest in resolving board/card game categorization difficulties. I'd be happy to be one of the panel of judges, but obviously my knowledge of board games isn't absolute. There are a few people in the bg thread who write good posts and also play a number of the new releases, so let's see if they bite.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:50
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When will the awards run and what will the cutoff dates for games' releases be? This is something seriously to consider because unlike the Oscars where you can have awards for movies that haven't even gone into wide release yet, for a fan-voted thing like this you'll want to have a significant amount of time between the cutoff and the voting, both to give word of mouth time to work and to give hype time to die down. Like, if you were to give out awards for games released in 2015 and vote on them now, that'd be reasonable - no game released in 2015 really has an advantage or disadvantage over the others by this point. If you were to have done the voting in January of this year, games released in December would be in a weird position where people would only be able to vote based on marketing and not based on having played them yet, depending on how long shipping takes, and etc.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:58
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GrandpaPants posted:I'd be happy to be one of the panel of judges, but obviously my knowledge of board games isn't absolute. There are a few people in the bg thread who write good posts and also play a number of the new releases, so let's see if they bite. Mind, it's not that you're judging which game is best; it's that you may be called upon to judge "is this properly an expansion or not". Jimbozig posted:When will the awards run and what will the cutoff dates for games' releases be? The Hugo Awards are for works released in the "calendar" year prior to the year the awards are held; this is pretty okay because nominations close in March. My thought is that you want things released in roughly 15 months prior to 3 months prior. So, if nominations were opened at the start of October, it would be for games released between 2015 July 1 and 2016 June 30th. inklesspen fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 15:59
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inklesspen posted:Mind, it's not that you're judging which game is best; it's that you may be called upon to judge "is this properly an expansion or not". Yeah, the... Meta judge? I don't know, but that is fine by me.
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Sep 25, 2016 16:03
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You know we also absorbed the poker subforum, right? I suggest the following award category: Best Game That Is Poker Here are the nominees: Poker Hmm, there may not be a lot of competition for this category until David Sirlin enters the race. Edit: Actually, we could start a big argument over the best form of poker to play, I suppose. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 16:26
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Miniatures are notorious for being overpriced, it would be nice if one of the categories awarded for them took price or value into account. You usually get those in starter sets and collections similar to them. Maybe a "best set or collection" category.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:07
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Critties is a good name only because then the categories can be "Crittiest Setting" or "Crittiest Artwork" or whatever. Horrible puns, ahoy!
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Sep 25, 2016 17:07
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natetimm posted:Miniatures are notorious for being overpriced, it would be nice if one of the categories awarded for them took price or value into account. You usually get those in starter sets and collections similar to them. Maybe a "best set or collection" category. I'm assuming nominators and voters would take value for price into account for all categories. I formally volunteer to help write unambiguous category definitions for all categories, and then act as a judge for resolving category questions and disputes. I think there should be a panel of three such judges, to enable a brief debate and conclusive vote for such questions as they arise.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:15
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The committee (myself and two others) are nearly done with the next revision of the procedures document.
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Sep 25, 2016 20:59
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I can judge for art if needed.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:42
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It's not a judge's award! It's modeled on the Hugo Awards (with the fixes they applied this year to prevent rabid puppies from pulling shenanigans).
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Sep 25, 2016 22:03
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inklesspen posted:The committee (myself and two others) are nearly done with the next revision of the procedures document. Who are these mystery power brokers
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Sep 25, 2016 22:06
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I don't really have much to contribute other than to say ask if the OP is really going for "Groggies" as a serious contest title. If so, this is a really dumb name and idea and should be changed immediately for reasons discussed in the TG Industry thread. Namely that it comes off as petty and vindictive and immature.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:52
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Libertad! posted:I don't really have much to contribute other than to say ask if the OP is really going for "Groggies" as a serious contest title. tl;dr the name hasn't been nailed down yet, and the discussion was waffling between Groggies and Critical Hits before the mod told the thread to split this discussion off into its own.
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Sep 25, 2016 23:55
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Yeah, the consensus seems to be to go for the safe-but-boring one, Critical Hits.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:51
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I really like Critical Hits because of its stupidly obvious double meaning.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:24
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moths posted:I really like Critical Hits because of its stupidly obvious double meaning. That is what what put it above the Golden Kobolds in my list, though I think the GK's have a better obvious look to the award than do the Critical Hits.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:39
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I have probably been giving it too much thought, but I keep coming back to variations of a D20 shape cut out of an explosion or blood splat silhouette. I'll try to sketch up what I mean later this week.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:16
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This is version 0.0.2 of the specification document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15K0p56iFaNVVHLXnVZAtHTQ5gQbzNobciKWSimnTxSc/edit?usp=sharing To answer Leperflesh's muckraking question, the Critical Hits awards cabal consists of myself, unzealous, FewtureMD, MollyMetroid, and sorcerer emeritus WinsonPaine. If all goes well, we should be able to open nominations in October.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:21
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inklesspen posted:To answer Leperflesh's muckraking question, Jesus. Could you be any more of a douchebag about this? You've mocked at least two posters in a one-page thread. Leperflesh had a legitimate question and so far as I can tell Gau was trying to be helpful.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:40
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Yeah I don't know why I could have thought Leperflesh is being snarky. I was snarky in response. Anyway, look, here's the thing. Just because me and a few other folks are putting together a proposal for the awards doesn't mean it's the only way these things can work. I'll be honest and say I'm the primary person writing the spec and making proposals here, but the other cabal members have been making their opinions known as well. We're not even doing it secretly; it's just being coordinated in IRC chat instead of on a thread. If I'm doing awards wrong, step up and show how they ought to be run. But Something Awful design-by-forum-thread things have a pretty good track record of never doing anything worthwhile, which is why I'm doing these things the way I am.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:57
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inklesspen posted:Yeah I don't know why I could have thought Leperflesh is being snarky. I was snarky in response. if you arent using SA as your primary coordination thing why is it an SA award? don't you have like a blog and poo poo you can do this on?
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Sep 26, 2016 05:25
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Elfgames posted:if you arent using SA as your primary coordination thing why is it an SA award? don't you have like a blog and poo poo you can do this on? Because it is being managed by SA users, as an award to be voted on by SA users, and was initially imagined as a SA Tradgames award contest. Don't be dense.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:40
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