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Trump won because "we need to take guns from black people" and "women are too weak for leadership" are basic values many Americans have and we pretend they don't because they are awful opinions. He said the thing. People are voting for that stuff. He said it loud and proud.
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Sep 27, 2016 04:07
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 23:55 |
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patonthebach posted:In real talk, I wonder if this debate had any influence whatsoever on undecided voters. We know Trump didnt lose any of his regulars. Would Hillary's grandma quips have changed any minds of people in the middle? I think there is a (valid) distaste for bigotry that gets conflated with it being nonexistant. He's the first candidate in a long time that is speaking to a huge segment of voters. He's not loving up when he's saying this stuff. he's speaking to a huge (and awful) segment of america. Very directly in a way people haven't for a long time.
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Sep 27, 2016 04:14
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Cthulhumatic posted:
He couldn't do that. This is where people miss it, they think he's doing any old random thing. He couldn't kill a bald eagle and get a vote his base would hate that. He could take a bald little black baby and grind it under his heel and his approval would go up. Because the "wacky" "random" bad stuff he says isn't just any old things, it's specific things that appeal to specific people that haven't had a direct voice in American politics for a while (because they shouldn't have a voice in a modern country) and have had decades of people talking around their values with codewords and stuff. When he says he wants to take guns from black people, stop and frisk minorities and that women don't have the stamina to run a country he's not loving up, he's speaking to a huge population in america that isn't used to being spoken directly to. And it might well end up being a winning strategy if people ignore how many (terrible) people it resonates with.
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Sep 27, 2016 14:26
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Skippy McPants posted:And unless the election is an utter blowout in Clinton's favor, you can look forward to plenty more of this in 2020. The conventional wisdom for the last while has been that blatant race and culture war baiting is seriously detrimental to a candidate, but Trump has shot that naive little fancy dead. Yeah, really for ages, but acutely since the 'tea party' became a thing the right in america has been dancing around certain opinions and only talking about them in code and implication. And at some point it turned out there is an audience for that. The demographics learned for a while that you shouldn't say bigoted things in public but they didn't learn not to be bigoted, they didn't vanish. Now the idea of "you shouldn't say it in public" is fading and speaking to that is creating a totally viable candidate. Like every time he says something bigoted people are all "oopsy doopsy, he messed up! what a loon!" but he isn't messing up. There is a ton of Americans, millions of americans that hold horrible out dated values and he is speaking to them in a way candidates have not for a generation. And people ignore it or act like he's just craaaazy and not noticing how much speaking to that voter base wins him.
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Sep 27, 2016 14:50
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Skippy McPants posted:Well, until Trump tried it, the consensus was that dropping the dog-whistles and speaking unfiltered hate was political suicide. Who's consensus? Everyone I talk to thinks racism is bad, everyone on my facebook thinks racism is bad, the tv pays lip service to the idea you should say racist things as a decorum thing even if they don't go to saying racism is bad except in the most bland definitions. But in a lot of ways that is a bubble and a lot of Americas flat out think 'racism is good" is a good opinion. full stop.
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Sep 27, 2016 15:23
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 23:55 |
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Darko posted:The people you surround yourself with are a self selected group that holds closer opinions to you as compared to the general populace. A good way to shift that is to, say, work in the service industry, an industrial job, or a trade in a divided city like Detroit or Chicago or St. Louis and then see how opinions change. That is literally the point I was making.
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Sep 27, 2016 16:32
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