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another problem with charter schools is the number of them run by the traitor gulen, who will be hunted down like the animal he is by the turkish deep state
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Sep 28, 2016 15:39
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Uranium Phoenix posted:Try reading the article I linked, which goes into the topic in some depth. Here's a start, though: While not identical, the experience of a bunch of white, middle class, suburban students is similar enough that they are not going to have their ideas, experiences, and beliefs challenged as much as in a school with socioeconomic, racial, and cultural diversity. Having these things challenged is important for cognitive development (and other things) because our brains grow when our ideas are challenged and we have to think about them. I won't, and I'll tell you why - it's nonsense. You know it and I know it. The reality of the real world is that those who change their beliefs when they're under scrutiny are weak. Those who enter into a discussion only to end up having their mind changed by someone else are weak. On all matters subjective I would rather double down than admit being wrong and end up being seen as an intellectual weakling. The expression "perception is reality" is so true in this case, if you fold and change your mind for someone else you will be seen as indecisive and weak. Purely as a matter of principle I completely disagree with your premise that being open to other ideas is the kind of quality we should encourage in kids.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:23
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do u know jenny posted:Not really. He hates working there, and says they can't believe they let someone like him be a teacher If public school teaching wasn't a major example of regulatory capture of a vocation, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess! The requirements for becoming a public school teacher, which have not been shown to have any impact on teaching quality, by the way, set a bar for entry that discriminates against individuals with less resources, regardless of whether they would be good teachers.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:45
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I wonder when we're just gonna start telling kids who's parents don't own land/pay property taxes they can't go to school anymore.. Probably a few weeks after we just say "gently caress it" and elect Putin as the president and stop dealing with half assed surrogates
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Sep 28, 2016 16:48
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You don't have to demonstrate that you know how to please a woman, or that you know all the best and newest swears, to become a teacher. Instead you need to get a master's degree that has no relevance to your ability to guide young people into adulthood as functional citizens that know how to not use the teeth and how to tell Jenny to take a flying gently caress off of Bitch Mountain.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:50
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A master's degree is a particularly weird requirement. They don't prove a whole lot other than "congrats you attended another few semesters of school", no one in any hiring capacity ought to treat it any different than a bachelor's, but now it's codified by law into public school requirements? You don't need 4 years to learn how to teach high school math, let alone 6, and that doesn't even touch the totally different things you need to teach elementary school students.
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Sep 28, 2016 16:53
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Khizan posted:My school did things so that in AP classes got a straight up +1.0. A was 5.0, a B was 4.5, and a C was 4.0. You're really digging yourself a hole here lmao I'm sorry but the base is: A = 4 B = 3 C = 2 If you add the +1.0 weighted from AP class, it is: A=5 B=4 C=3 Meaning if you got Cs then you're still only getting a 3.0 and tbh a C in an AP is definitely worth a B or more in the regular classes 90% of the time. Plus you're only getting a 3.0 if you're taking ALL AP classes which isn't really possible so if you're getting straight Cs your final GPA is going to probably be in the 2s after all those just honors classes and general electives and whatever get tacked on. There is no English 1 or 2 AP for example; they might be an honors class but it isn't weighted until 3AP and 4AP. e: unless your school for some reason did A=4, B=3.5, C=3 but that means what a D is 2.5? That's just not the standard idk what your school was doing if that's how it was. "B+ is 3.5!" was just some bullshit kids told themselves to feel better about the lower grade. + and - are meaningless in high school GPA. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 17:08
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:A master's degree is a particularly weird requirement. They don't prove a whole lot other than "congrats you attended another few semesters of school", no one in any hiring capacity ought to treat it any different than a bachelor's, but now it's codified by law into public school requirements? You don't need 4 years to learn how to teach high school math, let alone 6, and that doesn't even touch the totally different things you need to teach elementary school students. Yeah, it's weird to have really high educational demands combined with a relatively lower pay/prestige job. It just makes a lot more hoops to jump through and debt to incur that discourages many otherwise talented people from considering the profession. My 5 year olds do multiplication and read at a 5th grade level so I'm not sure what to do with them now. We're in a recently gentrifying area so the public schools are still some of the worst in the state while the private schools are all insanely expensive Montessori bullshit for the recently arrived yuppies.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:35
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:A master's degree is a particularly weird requirement. They don't prove a whole lot other than "congrats you attended another few semesters of school", no one in any hiring capacity ought to treat it any different than a bachelor's, but now it's codified by law into public school requirements? You don't need 4 years to learn how to teach high school math, let alone 6, and that doesn't even touch the totally different things you need to teach elementary school students.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:39
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oh cool this thread is turning into old gibbis where everyone talks about their triggers and social responsibility and poo poo I'll say it again: good on charter schools for cherry picking high performers. there's no reason a smart motivated kid should have to be in the same class as paste eating retards.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:45
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
DeusExMachinima posted:oh cool this thread is turning into old gibbis where everyone talks about their triggers and social responsibility and poo poo Oh good it's like old GBS when people say a thing then wander off while thing is discussed for a couple pages only to come back and go 'this is all stupid bullshit I already told you my correct opinion that has no room for nuance.'
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Sep 28, 2016 17:46
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DeusExMachinima posted:oh cool this thread is turning into old gibbis where everyone talks about their triggers and social responsibility and poo poo How to divide resources among the best students and the struggling ones is difficult. Is it better to tolerably educate 95℅, or tolerably educate 85% and superbly educate the top 10%? Certainly it puts a bad taste in my mouth to willfully leave students behind, but the top students are going to have way more influence on the world. Should we really put our resources to better educating a future cashier at the expense of inspiring someone who might go on to invent a new vaccine, or found a charitable organization, or make a really cool app? I wanna say that anyone can do anything if they set their mind to it, but I gotta be realistic. Let's just say that there were kids who, by age 12, clearly weren't ever going to invent any vaccines.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:11
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Sometimes talking about how you feel about something leads to an interesting discussion. Perhaps I'll post some fly as hell charter school themed jokes later, but until then, people are probably gonna talk about them. A relatively small number of students are just idiot cancers who can gently caress up an entire school year for the whole class. I had one 8th grade student who (1) randomly stood up and called me a human being at the top of his lungs about every 30 seconds, (2) dumped soda on other students' desks, (3) lit a stack of papers on top of my desk on fire, and, worst of all, (4) enjoyed listening to the Insane Clown Posse on purpose. I would send him to the office, and they would just send him back because they would rather he be my problem. When I pushed back on this, the administration told me that I wasn't being sufficiently inspiring, and that maybe I should try teaching him about the Holocaust to motivate him, which was an odd suggestion, because, among other things, I taught math. I'm generally in the "education is for everyone" camp, but some kids are just lemons and we ought to be able to send them to military schools.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:17
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Sometimes talking about how you feel about something leads to an interesting discussion. Perhaps I'll post some fly as hell charter school themed jokes later, but until then, people are probably gonna talk about them. Mainstreaming sucks and ruins everything, but in America there's such a long history of racial discrimination that the alternative (diverting kids into different tracks based on interest and ability) is radioactive, because in practice it led to capable black students being tracked into low-wage professions.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:17
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Boof Bonser posted:A relatively small number of students are just idiot cancers who can gently caress up an entire school year for the whole class. I had one 8th grade student who (1) randomly stood up and called me a human being at the top of his lungs about every 30 seconds, (2) dumped soda on other students' desks, (3) lit a stack of papers on top of my desk on fire, and, worst of all, (4) enjoyed listening to the Insane Clown Posse on purpose. That kid owns. gently caress you.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:19
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I think it's a mistake to only use 'how smart are you in terms of college odds and academic success' as a metric to determine someone's worth. Yeah maybe they won't invent a vaccine but I don't think that's any reason to just write them off which is what basically happens when they are dumped in the lovely classes and all vocational electives are eliminated because budget.Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Should we really put our resources to better educating a future cashier at the expense of inspiring someone who might go on to invent a new vaccine, or found a charitable organization, or make a really cool app? Also the other issue with this is how do you really know? Some of the most successful brilliant people struggled early in school and some of the straight A ivy-league bound kids get married right out of college and pop out 3 kids and are arguably just as useful to society at large as the high school drop out who did the same. I think it's fine to have classes geared towards certain students who would otherwise be unchallenged and bored but the concept of just pulling them into a different school entirely and giving that school priority over the 'regular' school seems to me like it would lead somewhere bad. I mean that's basically why some public schools are total poo poo while others are great already (suburb schools are usually way nicer...); let's not exacerbate the problem. Plus it's worth having the population in general be educated to a certain baseline just because it's necessary to the decent functioning of democracy. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:18
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I'm opening a charter for juggalo kids right now.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:20
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Roylicious posted:You know how I know you were in the dumb classes? Cuz a C is only a 3.0 whaaaat honors was on a 5.0 scale and AP was on a 6.0 scale when I was in school
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Sep 28, 2016 18:21
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I hate yankees posted:whaaaat honors was on a 5.0 scale and AP was on a 6.0 scale when I was in school Your school was a dirty cheating bitch school  Nah they just noted that on the transcripts and everyone had to subtract a point from the weighted grades when considering your college applications because your school had to be special snowflake school. So I suppose sure you could skate by with Cs and get a 3.0 at that school but the college admissions people are going to treat it the same as if you got a 2.0 at a different school. All things being equal - different schools are deemed 'harder' as well so their GPAs are worth more. Interestingly enough this usually means a 4.0 from a decent suburban school is deemed better than a 4.0 at some shitbox school which also adds onto the pain for poor people in cities. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:24
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Roylicious posted:Your school was a dirty cheating bitch school All California schools are on a five point system. It's not that uncommon. It's definitely not "special snowflake" status. The reason schools do it is because if you have hundreds of kids in a class, it can be very difficult to rank them if you don't take into account the difficulty of their schedule. Otherwise you get Kid A who has a 4.0 from getting As in remedial math and Kid B who was a 4.0 taking all IB/AP classes and no way to distinguish between them. The whole concept of this system is hosed up, of course, but that's why it's done that way.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:30
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Roylicious posted:Your school was a dirty cheating bitch school well that was the state standard so i dunno what to tell you, and my college recorded my entrance gpa > 5.0 so you basically outed yourself as going to a poo poo school so sorry?
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Sep 28, 2016 18:31
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misty mountaintop posted:Mainstreaming sucks and ruins everything, but in America there's such a long history of racial discrimination that the alternative (diverting kids into different tracks based on interest and ability) is radioactive, because in practice it led to capable black students being tracked into low-wage professions. Every institution is going to apply racism to the degree that society harbors such feelings. Is taking away programs for smart, motivated students really the best way to combat those attitudes? Fighting racism in ways that actually change people's attitudes directly will, errm, trickle-down to every institution, schools just being one of them. I imagine fighting racism in housing, employment, and access to social services is much more valuable because that helps everyone of that race or at least those who are most disadvantaged. Getting rid of tracking only "helps" those who already have a leg up in terms of being smart and capable.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:33
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I will be voting against the expansion of charter schools in my state in November. 
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Sep 28, 2016 18:34
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misty mountaintop posted:All California schools are on a five point system. It's not that uncommon. It's definitely not "special snowflake" status. The reason schools do it is because if you have hundreds of kids in a class, it can be very difficult to rank them if you don't take into account the difficulty of their schedule. Otherwise you get Kid A who has a 4.0 from getting As in remedial math and Kid B who was a 4.0 taking all IB/AP classes and no way to distinguish between them. The whole concept of this system is hosed up, of course, but that's why it's done that way. If CA schools are on a 5 point system then how is an A worth 6 points? I went to high school in CA before moving - the state standard is weight AP grades are A=5, B=4, C=3. D gets no weight. The way to distinguish them is you look at the classes they took. College admissions doesn't just look at the GPA and nothing else. If you took remedial math and have a 4.0 that is absolutely not the same to the admissions people as a kid from the same school with all honors/AP and a 4.0. e: for example from Ithaca admissions: quote:“We are most focused on the rigor of your curriculum and the level of success you’ve demonstrated in your academic work.” They're not morons, they realize a kid in remedial getting 4.0 and a kid in AP/honors getting a 4.0 are not the same. I hate yankees posted:well that was the state standard so i dunno what to tell you, and my college recorded my entrance gpa > 5.0 so you basically outed yourself as going to a poo poo school so sorry? And I'm telling you regardless of what they recorded your incoming GPA as, they also considered your schools wonky weighting and your school's actual national ranking when comparing your transcript to others from different schools. e: for example again, from UC admissions: quote:Since AP courses are awarded extra honors points, if a student gets a D in an AP course, does that count as a C? They give you one extra grade point when calculating your GPA for admissions, regardless of what your school did. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 18:34
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it's as if... there are schools that are not in... california...
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Sep 28, 2016 18:47
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Is the school system the right place to have that battle? There are tons of factors that go into any given student's success. Does eschewing tracking actually show tangible benefits for capable black students, or does it just regress them to the mean like everyone else? It's not like they're suddenly immune to racism among school faculty. I think I didn't define my terms clearly. American schools do not track kids. They mainstream them, which means, basically, that everyone is accessing and moving through a very similar "general" curriculum regardless of ability or interest. In a tracking system, you might give kids some tests, or talk to them, when they were 12 or 13 to determine what they're interested in. If they were interested in, say, being a mechanic of some kind, they would receive a notably different curriculum than if they were interested in being a lawyer. Instead of 4 years of English and History, 3 of lab science (bio, chem, physics) and 3 of math and 3 of foreign language (typical for a standard diploma in most states), the mechanic track might have 3 english, 2 history (just civics and us history), 2 or 3 math (up to algebra 2), 2 lab sciences (conceptual physics and an electrical engineering-type course), no foreign language, but then also a bunch of auto repair, wood shop, building-and-taking-stuff-apart type classes. Meanwhile, the lawyer track kids would take 4 english, 4 history, maybe 1 lab science (bio, because it's reading-heavy), 2 math, 4 years of latin etc. I'm just making these curriculums up off of the top of my head, but I hope they are illustrative of what I mean.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:48
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I hate yankees posted:it's as if... there are schools that are not in... california... Ithaca is in New York and the college admissions process is pretty much the same across the board in terms of what I was just talking about (looking at your classes and considering the school itself as well, and weighting AP as one extra point). The AP stuff is largely administered by the College Board which is a national private company and thus it is pretty much standard across the board both in terms of how colleges award students for it and how the curriculum is structured. The only real differences between universities about AP stuff is which classes they'll give you credits for and how many credits they'll give for what AP test grade. There's no serious university out there going 'okay this kid has a 5.6 which is waaaay better than this kid from another school who only has a 4.5 lol what a loser... and this kid in the all remedial classes with a 4.0 is definitely better than this other AP kid with a 3.5... oh this kid went to some made up charter home school and has a 6.0 get him a full ride ASAP!!!' They absolutely look at the school itself and its national rankings and how it determines GPA, what classes you took, and in general the transcript as a whole as opposed to just the GPA as printed.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:53
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Roylicious posted:Ithaca is in New York and the college admissions process is pretty much the same across the board in terms of what I was just talking about (looking at your classes and considering the school itself as well, and weighting AP as one extra point). The AP stuff is largely administered by the College Board which is a national private company and thus it is pretty much standard across the board both in terms of how colleges award students for it and how the curriculum is structured. Colleges ask counselors to report class rank as a measure of that student relative to other students in their class in their school. If they didn't do this, there would be no reason for schools to weight GPAs. The schools don't think they're fooling the colleges; it's something the colleges are (implicitly) asking them to do.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:55
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Roylicious posted:Ithaca is in New York and the college admissions process is pretty much the same across the board in terms of what I was just talking about (looking at your classes and considering the school itself as well, and weighting AP as one extra point). The AP stuff is largely administered by the College Board which is a national private company and thus it is pretty much standard across the board both in terms of how colleges award students for it and how the curriculum is structured. i mean you can make those arguments but that doesn't change the fact that you're pissing into the wind right now e: what the guy above said is correct
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Sep 28, 2016 18:56
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misty mountaintop posted:Colleges ask counselors to report class rank as a measure of that student relative to other students in their class in their school. If they didn't do this, there would be no reason for schools to weight GPAs. The schools don't think they're fooling the colleges; it's something the colleges are (implicitly) asking them to do. I'm not saying they are; I'm saying the high schooler thinking he's being slick taking all the easy classes so he can get a 4.0 is doing it wrong and also even if your school gives you a 6.0 for an A college admissions people know it's not really a whole grade point better than a kid from another high school with a similar ranking who got an A in the same class but only got a 5.0 I hate yankees posted:i mean you can make those arguments but that doesn't change the fact that you're pissing into the wind right now Look someone said 'my school was so stupid you could get straight Cs in AP classes and get 4.0 still' and I'm simply saying college admissions are going to see right through that and not actually treat it the same way as someone else who took the same classes in a different school but got straight Bs and still has a 4.0.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:58
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Roylicious posted:I'm not saying they are; I'm saying the high schooler thinking he's being slick taking all the easy classes so he can get a 4.0 is doing it wrong and also even if your school gives you a 6.0 for an A college admissions people know it's not really a whole grade point better than a kid from another high school with a similar ranking who got an A in the same class but only got a 5.0 the guy getting a C in an AP course is no "doing it wrong" because he sits for the exam which gives him an opportunity to receive elective credit hours in college jesus dude let it go stop acting like moridin by arguing for the sake of arguing
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Sep 28, 2016 19:00
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Also my school had super weird gpa stuff where we had "unweighted GPA" on a 4 point system, but also weighted GPA where every class was assigned a difficulty level and harder classes counted for more, the average was level 3 and every level changed your effective grade by 8 points, so a 92 or 3.7 in a level 5(the max) class was like a 108 or 5.3 in your weighted gpa. Random classes would have weird levels like some chorus class being level 5 and also some programming class that I just browsed the internet through. GPA optimizers took advantage of this stuff. It was also used for class rank.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:01
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I hate yankees posted:the guy getting a C in an AP course is no "doing it wrong" because he sits for the exam which gives him an opportunity to receive elective credit hours in college Look bro I was responding to this originally: I hate yankees posted:Any moron can take an AP course in high school and skate through for a C and get that sweet 4.0. AP courses are a loving joke That's a stupid thing to say. Nowhere you applied to actually considered your C as a real 4.0 just the same as a kid from a different school who got a B and a 4.0 in the same class. Don't be mad at me about it. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Also my school had super weird gpa stuff where we had "unweighted GPA" on a 4 point system, but also weighted GPA where every class was assigned a difficulty level and harder classes counted for more, the average was level 3 and every level changed your effective grade by 8 points, so a 92 or 3.7 in a level 5(the max) class was like a 108 or 5.3 in your weighted gpa. Random classes would have weird levels like some chorus class being level 5 and also some programming class that I just browsed the internet through. GPA optimizers took advantage of this stuff. It was also used for class rank. This is largely why a lot of unis just toss the GPA printed on the transcript and just plug your letter grades into their own GPA system and work with that number when comparing tons of people from different schools (along with the school's national ranking). They don't care what your school's self determined class difficulty ranking is. Thus those GPA optimizers probably didn't have as good a transcript as they thought they did. Roylicious fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Sep 28, 2016 |
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Sep 28, 2016 19:02
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Sorry to bring it up again, but I would appreciate it if people would help me brainstorm ideas for my Juggalo charter school.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:03
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I'm thinking maybe "Hatchet High" for a name. What do you think?
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Sep 28, 2016 19:05
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WWHS - Whoop Whoop High School Now offering advanced magnet classes which are 'extra hard difficulty' thus we award 8.0 for an A and 5.0 for an F!
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Sep 28, 2016 19:07
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Roylicious posted:WWHS - Whoop Whoop High School Omg, yeah, it should definitely be a magnet school, not a charter school.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:16
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Instead of a DC trip the seniors go to The Gathering.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:18
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misty mountaintop posted:I'm thinking maybe "Hatchet High" for a name. What do you think? athletics can be sponsored by faygo imo
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Sep 28, 2016 19:19
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Roylicious posted:WWHS - Whoop Whoop High School Whole lotta 5.0s coming out of WWHS
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Sep 28, 2016 19:23
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