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SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Kaja Rainbow posted:

But, seriously, I really like World of Culiviation because other characters actually matter and accomplish worthwhile things on their own. And there's just more of a sense of the characters working as a team. They get to do things. And have areas they're better at than the MC, even if the MC's still terrifyingly talented in a range of areas.

Edit: it's the only series of its ilk ("male MC becomes awesome and amazing") that I haven't dropped. I dropped ISSTH for example, a few Japanese novels, Terror Infinity, Undefeated God of War, etc.

Try Ze Tian Ji, it is really good.

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SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Desuwa posted:

I let myself fall really behind on ISSTH. The tipping point was when Meng Hao was gloating to the sea gods or whatever about how much trouble they'd be in if he died because of his clan and all the forces supporting him. Hasn't he killed tons of people during or immediately after identical speeches?

It really depends. I recall him wanting to avoid killing people precisely due to their backing a few times actually. But he also does the opposite several times too. For Meng Hao such speeches are simply a fact of cultivation life, and he basically decides if the risk of offending a group is worth the reward. Sometimes that reward is proving a point as opposed to something material.

To be honest Meng Hao isn't really meant to be moral anyway, or I don't think he is. He typically hasn't had backing but, time and again he acts the classic young master when given the chance. It feels self-aware in a way other xianxia protagonists don't.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




http://en.qidian.com/

This is a thing coming I guess.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Meme Emulator posted:

Im assuming wuxiaworld is going to be the foundation for official english language releases from Qidian

now korean novels are jumping ship to wuxiaworld for some reason

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




I just read the first few chapters of A Will Eternal.

My god. The shenanigans. They would even make Meng Hao blush!

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Er Gen absolutely needed to switch the main viewpoint character of these last chapters in ISSTH to Yan'er with only occasional bits from Meng Hao/Fang Mu.

Alas, he did not do so.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




They also bought Gravity Tales and tried to hide it.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Katreus posted:

If we're reccing fanfic, I'd like to rec something in a similar vein, an original xianxia quest called Forge of Destiny. A quest is basically like a forum game where all the questers control a single character and vote on actions or decisions that the character does, and the Quest Master responds with the results and controls all non-protagonist characters. Like web novels, quest posts can vary in quality.

In this case, I think Forge of Destiny is a lot of fun with minimal 'game' aspects for story post readers, it's well written, and it updates pretty regularly. It's got an interesting world, if influenced by Chinese culture, and side characters feel distinct and have agency / their own adventures. One of my favorite side characters would usually be considered an antagonist in these types of stories (by trope / genre) but her development has been very unique.

Fair warning - there is a bit of tense switch-up and 2nd person / 3rd person mixups in the beginning posts, but it's sorted out as the story continues.

A little off-topic, but:

We actually have these on Something Awful as well. Check this subforum out:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=103

Here they are under the CYOA label. Paradise Lost, in particular, has gone on for over 4 years and is a huge read-through in its own right. Complete with a handy recap that is still massive as gently caress. In it, goons play as a dude in a swords and sandals world complete with gods, demons, superhuman kings, sorcerers, and mighty men. It has its own issues but I highly recommend it to anyone wanting to get into games like this. Fair warning: one of the draws of it, that can be frustrating at times, is that you do not see the mechanics going on. The players basically control a dude, and what is learned about the world and how it works, is what you know.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




It is good. Speaking of the original character choice options, the noble dude with the tiger cub is pretty clearly the noble starting option as well. Kinda poor talent, a reputation as a wastrel that he's trying to work off.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

Man, after catching up with Forge of Destiny I decided to check out some of the other "quest" stories on that website, and most of the other ones are really terrible. Like I came across this one that could basically be summed up as "what if my cool OC were friends with the Madoka Magica characters and she knew everything from the show and also dated Mami and and and..." I became vicariously embarrassed just from reading some of it. Most of the stories in general seem to be based off some existing IP, and usually one that is kinda lame, like Bleach or something.

I mentioned it before, but we have several goon run ones on this forum, though usually without as much dice stuff. They aren't usually in pre-established settings either, so they feel less like a fanfic? Some are pretty short and haven't been around that long, others are complete, and others are massive and been running for several years.

Master post of them here:

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3764360

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012





beautiful

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




A Will Eternal is actually legitimately funny so far, mainly because Bai Xiaochun is a much better protagonist than literally any other xianxia protagonist. I've not read since chapter 300 or so though, so maybe that's changed.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

It's sad that Su Ling is going to inevitably be pushed out of the plot, since there's no way she ends up an Inner Desciple. Ling Qi even realizes this and is trying to get her some other friends. Su Ling is the only truly decent character in this story aside from maybe Gan Guangli or Han Jian.

Regarding "power levels," it's nice that the stronger characters also keep training and Ling Qi still shows no sign of catching up with folks like Meizhen or Sun Liling (and the other high talent person, prisoner guy, is probably keeping up with her). I am curious how he'll manage to keep conflict going after Ling Qi becomes an Inner Desciple. I guess if conflict is allowed between lower and upper-classmen it could work.

I'm pretty sure Su Ling is a production student and those use different criteria to advance to the inner sect. At the moment, Ling Qi seems totally unaware of what these are and the chances Su Ling has.

On "power level" talk, I'd fundamentally disagree with what you're saying here. We see the story from Ling Qi's perspective, but from an outside perspective what we are seeing is a complete novice cultivator preparing to outright surpass people that have good talent and have had immense resources and opportunity, who came to the sect already in Yellow. Also, this novice cultivator could have actually broken through to Green and Bronze a few weeks ago but chose not to... because her high Talent meant she had more Arts than most anyone else, and she wanted to master those first to make her breakthrough even stronger. Ling Qi has been peak Yellow/Silver for a few weeks at this point, it's good to keep in mind.

Basically, in a couple of years, Ling Qi will probably be stronger than any of her friends or enemies (that she has right now). She won't equal the strongest by the tournament though, because they hold such a resource and time spent cultivating advantage.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Arkeus posted:

I'll agree that it's hard to grasp how utterly bulshit Ling Qi's advancement has been... but we shouldn't under-estimate the resource advantages of the monsters. They have kept pace with us, week wise in pure cultivation (Meizhen got to late yellow week 5 and us week 24, she got to early green week 19 and us week 37) though we have managed to catch up art wise and skill wise (I expect them to have much higher than we were at similar levels).

The big thing, though, is that the higher you are the rarer resources you need, and we just won't quality easily for such resources, while they will. So, I'd say while we could arguably catch up by the tournament simply because each step takes longer and longer, that doesn't mean they won't distance us again by next year.

Not to get into too much detail about it, but Ling Qi's status is going to pretty significantly change after the tournament I think it's fair to say. It's hard to gauge just what kind of resources will be available, and it depends pretty heavily on choices the players make.

I'd tend to suggest that accepting Elder Jiao's offer would be a more conservative thing. It would give Ling Qi better arts, and more arts oriented around the Moon, Darkness, and probably Music. Much more cohesion in her build. Fewer raw resources, but plenty of opportunities to acquire them as well as much rarer things through tests and missions. Proving herself in competitions, etc. At the same time, it also probably has the most consistency and ease to plan around?

Whereas Cai Renxiang's own offer seems to have a pretty high ceiling for what Ling Qi can get but likely requires significantly more effort put into actually earning that.

There is always stealing everything that is not nailed down--then everything that is--from the Yan Renshu's of the world as well.

Ultimately I think it's fair to state that Ling Qi will never have high noble family resources, but I think she'll have plenty going forward and maybe even make up the gap some.

e: will agree that a couple of years is probably an overestimation, but long term i think Ling Qi will surpass everyone not named Ji Rong in this year's Outer Sect, and Ji Rong seems just as likely to get himself killed as actually live up to his even more absurd Talent

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jan 25, 2018

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




blastron posted:

Is there a way to read through Forge of Destiny without having to scroll through tons of forum posts and discussion between chapters?

Hit Reader Mode or click the arrows around "Index" to advance to the next or previous post. Should be in the rightmost corner of the post. Reader mode in the right corner of the page, just above the first post on the page.

e: here you go for just a link to the reader mode

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/forge-of-destiny-xianxia-quest.35583/reader

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jan 25, 2018

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Arkeus posted:

Well, a few things:

Most of the more potent houses have ways to increase Talent. It's been hinted that the sect also does. High end characters (Prisms, White) likely have had 3/4 talent increase unless they are Shenhua. Our talent, once the monsters get the full resources of their house, will become only less and less useful (especially as it's not that high).

Elder Jiao is at the absolute top of what you usually expect non-hermit cultivators to be. Whites are basically 'constant closed door' except for Shenhua/Shao, and while going the CRX route means being a Cai vassal, it does not mean being directly under Shenhua unless we do something really insane (like be violet when CRX is Cyan). While Shenhua certainly has higher resources than Jiao, Jiao also certainly have much more higher resources than CRX, and is more capable to give them to his single apprentice. Beside that, there are arguments for Shenhua actually being worse for arts/etc than a great sect.

What CRX route gives is political influence and a direct way to influence the incoming poo poo storm (E.G, being much higher up in the chain of decisions).

Yeah I know that talent can be increased, but at this point it's pretty defeatist to just assume that Ling Qi will not have such opportunities in the future through other means. Even if it is rare, it'd make for a pretty poor story and game ultimately if Ling Qi were not to have means to generally keep up.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is on the Cai stuff though. It is basically what I said. Jiao and the Sect offer pretty accessible resources and a much better possibility for Arts (specifically what Ling Qi uses). Cai is a gamble on the resource front, but with enough luck, might yield more. But likely won't ever in terms of arts. The potential for more resources largely depends on the manner in which Ling Qi is used, and what comes of that. It's by far the less appealing route to me personally though, so I'd not thought of it much.

And I never said anything about being underneath Shenhua?

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

Oh, she's absolutely absurdly talented, but even her talent isn't really enough to allow her to catch up to the handful of people benefiting from both talent and lineage any time soon (and there's the super-important resources thing another poster mentioned, which will more strongly advantage the people from noble families the higher up you go). There's also Ji Rong who by all accounts has at least the same level of talent as Ling Qi (I think he would probably beat her in a straight-up 1v1 fight, even though Ling Qi is more versatile).

I think the story does a good job of giving us a protagonist who is strong enough to be highly engaged and relevant in the plot, but not so strong that it feels completely unfair and ridiculous. I get the impression that, while rare, there are other people in this setting who have progressed similarly to Ling Qi. It's also worth noting that Ling Qi doesn't really have any completely unheard of talents/advantages. Like, she doesn't have access to some one of a kind legendary uber-item (I mean, Zhengui is really rare/good, but not "the legendary strongest dragon ever" or whatever) or some super ability no one else has. If anything, stuff like her connection with the moon goddess just allows her to keep up with the nobles and their resources.

Honestly, I wish that players had gone the route of associating with Sun Liling and Ji Rong, since those characters seem more interesting than someone like Cai Renxiang. I also kinda feel like Gu Xiulan would fit in better with that group.


The forum has a "reader mode" option (in one of the drop-down things) that only shows story posts and ignores all the discussions posts from other users.

Ji Rong is actually more talented. He is actually a bit behind in his cultivation though due to being kept prisoner. I'm pretty sure he would actually lose a straight fight at the moment, unless he has broken into green or bronze. Which, to be fair, was his plan right after being freed.

I don't believe Cai Renxiang, Bai Meizhen, or Sun Liling are actually more talented or they would actually be even further ahead than they are now, unless the resource advantage hasn't really helped that much. At the very least, they haven't actually widened the gap at all, despite their variety of advantages.

I'm not saying that Ling Qi is some uber talent or should be crushing everyone, or even that she will be.

Probably the best way to sum up my entire belief regarding this is that opportunities will come up in the narrative that will allow her to, at the very least, be on par with the strongest in the year. Not this year, but in the coming years, yeah. They won't be without risk. I'm speaking from the perspective of faith in the writer I suppose, that these opportunities will come up, because I have no real interest in reading the story of "very talented and dedicated cultivator that ultimately didn't have the resources to achieve full potential" because that's ultimately frustrating. The story of "very talented and dedicated cultivator takes smart risks and takes advantage when they can, ultimately achieving their full potential" is much more engaging.

Of course, due to it being a game, voters may choose to avoid such things. I mean, when you're on a mission for Cai Renxiang (as an example) and the choice is leaving scot-free with the mission complete or robbing a cache of rare medicines and risk being caught, people may just choose not to take the risk.

e: best way of putting it, the peer character is Ji Rong, Bai & Co are the measuring stick, and I believe the narrative will ultimately present the opportunities to equal or surpass that even if it is mechanically (and even in world) unlikely. and she also has an unknown father, a possible hidden ability, and apparently her background is "somewhat cliche" from way back in character creation, so who knows what any of that will ultimately mean, though i think the hidden ability in part has to do with the wind affinity she has, as well as talking with wind spirits when she was younger.

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jan 25, 2018

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

Keep in mind that it takes exponentially longer to break-through to progressive levels, so it isn't necessarily a sign that they're cultivating slower that Meizhen/Liling haven't broken through to the next stage. That being said, I do imagine that Li Qing's raw talent is higher than theirs (simply because they had training before entering the sect and weren't already Green/Bronze when they entered). I also get the impression that Cai Renxiang isn't really on the same level as Meizhen/Liling.

The dramatic increase in time between each break-through also means that there'll be a bigger group of characters who are more or less in the ball-park of Ling Qi's cultivation level. Like, while Ling Qi is working her way through Green/Bronze (which will take longer than working her way through Yellow/Silver), other characters will also reach that level of cultivation and become at least a non-negligible threat in a fight (the dice thing is pretty neat in this regard, since it gives weaker characters a non-zero chance of winning a fight or doing relevant damage).

I'm not really sure I disagree with pretty much any of that, except I guess about how long it's taking them to work through the levels. We can reasonably extrapolate based on how long it took Meizhen to go from yellow to green, and compare that to Ling Qi's, to get an idea of any sort of widening gap for those ranks, and we can do that again for Green to Green Appraisal. It'll be a bit of a delay, but we will be able to tell if the gap is widening or narrowing based on resources or not once we reach Appraisal. Though the Perfect Breakthrough bonus does confuse things a bit.

The dice thing is pretty good for that because it let Ling Qi run the gently caress away from Sun Liling due to bullshit luck.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




i vomited blood and a drop of it got on a fellow daoist's least valuable treasure, he refined the souls of my entire family to strengthen that treasure as punishment

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Cynic Jester posted:

At least it was just your family and not the entire city. Rare to see that sort of restraint these days. Back in my days, a few million years ago...

he was an honorable fellow daoist and a good brother to me

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




I feel completely the opposite when it comes to translations. I've read a lot of both (something I am sad to admit) and it really feels like most of the translations of Chinese novels are far better as far as readability goes. Japanese fan translations I've read often feels like something that has been run through a machine translation or done by somebody with a poor grasp of English.

Chinese translations are, however, far more filled with cliche phrasing.

Maybe Japanese translations are better these days, but one of the key reasons I started reading more Chinese stuff is that RWX and Deathblade produced such excellent translations. This isn't really a universal thing I admit, and I think a lot of it would depend on what exactly you're reading and who is translating.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Megazver posted:

*furtively looks around*

*in a whisper*

The traditional Chinese outfits in these things are kinda samey and boring.

agreed

in fact it's pretty damned annoying how, once someone ascends in stories like that, it turns out not just the starting planet but literally the entire universe (and eventually multiverse) are basically the same damned culture

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

I'm definitely biased in terms of Japanese because I know a considerable amount (probably could be considered "semi-fluent" in terms of grammar/vocabulary even though my kanji is pretty garbage), and this makes poor/overly literal Japanese translations easier for me to deal with because I can sort of infer what's going on in the source material (and certain commonly said things, like the aforementioned "it can't be helped," probably feel less goofy as a result). But this doesn't really explain why I have an easier time with translated Korean stuff, since I don't know any Korean.

I think part of it might not be a translation thing so much as something related to the general "tempo" of conversations/prose, if that makes sense. A good example might be this portion of a passage quoted on the last page of this thread:


I can't help but imagine everything like some goofy low budget movie with hammy acting. And that isn't always a bad thing - I feel like the humor in My Disciple Died Yet Again works really well because it's sorta self-aware of the goofiness of everything and the protagonist perceives things in that light, but it's hard for me to read really long cultivation stories that play things straight (not necessarily the one I quoted, but I've seen similar things when I tried to read other popular cultivation stories).

I mean, I also think Korean stories tend to have far better translations, fan ones at least, than Japanese ones.

But yeah, Chinese stuff often has a tone that can be akin to an old lovely martial arts movie which is part of why I like it.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




i have finally mastered the grand dao of triggering libs

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




So on Forge of Destiny, I went back and looked over a few older chapters/updates. One thing that stood out to me, and makes me feel pretty good about Cai Renxiang, is that she did show some pretty decent consideration and regard of Ling Qi going pretty far back. I didn't really have a dog in the race, but Cai's actions earlier in the quest stood out to me. In fact, she seems to have a repeated behavior of looking after Ling Qi's safety when Thunderdome type situations spring up, and when it's not her, Gan Guangli seems to serve a similar role.

I think it's also interesting that her other recruit/retainer, Gan Guangli, comes from the background he does. It seems like she tries to pick out people that have been victims of injustice and abuse by those stronger than them. Admittedly, a small sample size for any major statement, but she seems to genuinely try to do good things.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Arkeus posted:

While I agree she tries to do good things, I would not say Ling Qi is a good example of someone who has been victim of injustice and abuse by those stronger than her? Hell, Su Ling/ Li Suyin/ Ji Rong would be better example of those, really.

What Ling Qi exhibited was both talent and a significant loyal streak, as well as the capacity to submit to those stronger than her.

I'd imagine a significant amount of abuse by those stronger than her, in some capacity, would have happened in her past? It's kind of part of the background. Not necessarily the institutional injustices but just the normal, everyday poo poo, that would come with being a runaway child on the streets.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

I'm catching up with Forge of Destiny (I tend to wait 1-2 months between reading updates) and Ling Qi's whole talk with Cai and her related thoughts have been really good. The whole internal debate she's having about the selfish motivation for her bonds and what have you (like secretly enjoying that she's Xiulan's only friend, or just accepting Li Suyin's admiration) is pretty well written and makes her strike good balance between your more sociopathic Chinese WN protagonist and amore typical morally righteous hero. I'm thinking that the best option in terms of her future would be to go the Argent Sect route, since she's way too young to commit to the family of one of the people she met during her first year at the Sect. She doesn't seem to fit with Cai's ideals at all, and while I like the Gu guy that would also be a super hasty decision; she's going to meet more people and have more opportunities later, and going for Argent Sect is a good option to just stick to while waiting and seeing if anything better comes up. I thought she was kind of a dick in response to Cai revealing stuff about herself, though. Like, she asked to hear more about her, and then she's like "uh, maybe we should just talk about tea next time." I feel bad for Cai; probably the first time the poor girl has been honest with one of her peers, and Ling Qi is just like "okay weirdo."

As a side note, I think she should hook up with Gan Guangli. He seems like the only guy she can comfortable talk to, and he fits the whole "swole dudes" aesthetic she desires. Granted, if she rejects Cai's offer I'm not sure how he'd react.

edit: Wait, now she seems confused about Meizhen again? The part of me that is reading this as just an indulgent nerd media thing wants her to hook up with Meizhen to make the characters happy, but the part concerned with the actual quality of the writing/plotting knows it shouldn't happen.
edit2: Okay I got to the following scene that basically makes everything explicit. It was dealt with very well but still makes me sad :(
edit3(lol): Han Jian interlude was also really good. He's a really well written character. poo poo, so are pretty much all the other characters in this story; it never ceases to amaze me how dramatically better this is than the vast majority of popular, money-making actual WNs I've read.

Cai was always my least favorite of the options but it'll work out. Eventually. Probably.

It helps that I actually like the Cai scenes we've gotten a lot even if I think the Sect route was the superior option.

also lol @ Cai not realizing Ling Qi had a real defense for when she actually gets hit, also seems like she assumed Ling Qi knew more about her mother's history than she really did

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Silynt posted:

Per the recommendations of this thread and the English Web Serial thread, I finally got around to reading Forge of Destiny - honestly, I should have done it sooner. I loved it, combining my two greatest guilty pleasure reading outlets - Xianxia and LitRPG. I would suggest anyone who reads xianxia stories to give it a shot....

That said, I HIGHLY recommend that you skip reading the thread because hoo-boy, what a dumpster fire. There's so much salt from people on the losing side of various votes that you could salinate a lake, much of it still coming out months after the relevant vote was cast. Event voting is particularly bad about this.

we need to pick up a bunch of archery arts and here is why, also betray cai at the first opportunity (this is a joke, i am not serious)

it has some real great characterization though, very much an a+ read, this is also a great time to get into it with the end of the year tournament arc, and the preliminary round was one of the best chapters/action sequences/updates in the story yet. ling qi's aesthetics are just great

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 18, 2018

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




I think the polearms, from what I could make out while re-reading large chunks of the story and checking thread discussion, came from a decision to test out a bunch of different weapons to see if she had any affinity with them, like she did with the bow. Han Jian also advised a certain degree of skill in the spear and sword as a standard thing for a noble, Cai actually had a similar recommendation but the current Archery skill should make up for it.

I am super excited to see what the next round in the tournament will feature. Bai Meizhen better win the whole loving thing though, and Kang Zihao needs to be punched in the schnoz. Sun Liling too really.

On quests, most do seem pretty bad really. I still like Paradise Lost, though.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3550307

Basically goons control a bronze age hero, decisions get made. Some surprisingly good, many quite terrible. Features a magical talking dog.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ling Qi also feels more comfortable and generally safer among women than she does men, she even thinks as much to herself earlier in the story regarding Bai Meizhen and part of why she had such a negative reaction to the kiss.

Silynt posted:

I've been hate reading the responses after some key sequences and it makes me want to pull my hair out.

"We lost a fight that the Elder later told us we weren't supposed to win. I'm going to spend the next 40 pages of the thread bitching that we haven't abandoned our developed path and switched to an entirely different skill set.

Oh you wanted to discuss our next actions? Too bad, I'm about to spend 20 pages arguing about how the trickster moon spirit we have been getting help from is Chaotic Evil.

We agreed to be a follower of a high ranking character instead of being a typical xianxia murderhobo, we have officially given up all player agency and chance of character development.

You loving idiots voted for the option to [insert choice] and it had an unforeseen negative consequence. If we had [insert other choice], obviously nothing else bad could have possibly happened! God you're all so loving stupid."

Help me I can't stop.

I recently read a bunch of the Grinning Moon poo poo and it's just the stupidest reactions that dude had. When the time for interactions with the Bloody Moon become a thing I pity the fools who have to read it.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ji Rong is a pretty interesting dude (well not him specifically, more the situation he is in). He's definitely a stereotypical xianxia protagonist, though of the sort from a very specific type. Things like Martial God Asura or Against the Gods is where his inspiration comes from. poo poo background but incredible talent, lots of enemies and in a normal story his raw talent and motivation to get strong would see him reach great heights and be able to crush everyone who doubted him. Classic wish fulfillment stuff.

Of course, this doesn't work for him. I don't even think it is his willingness to step on people weaker than him or anything that hosed him either, though it certainly didn't help. It's his general lack of awareness of his surroundings and the politics going on behind the scenes. In his point of view he makes the statement that he was set up by Xuan Shi and Cai, looking for an excuse to set him up and get him imprisoned for a month and unable to cultivate.

Now, it could just be that he refuses to believe he did anything wrong, but I think it's a lot more interesting to look at it from another angle. Sun Liling broke him out from that formation, then launched her assault on Cai's council. We also know that, around the same time, a puppet of Ling Qi showed up and started robbing people. This is also around the first time Ling Qi took tea with Cai Renxiang, and Ji Rong had done so just a bit before. That is also the meeting she set Ling Qi on finding out who was robbing people, which turned out to be the puppet.

When we look at the preliminary round in the tournament, we see Sun Liling's right-hand man literally using one of Gan Guangli's enforcers as a puppet.

A lot of people think Yan Renshu set the Ling Qi puppet up back in the day, and this is reasonable. But I think I really like the idea that it was a tactic arranged by Sun Liling to drive a wedge between Ji Rong, Ling Qi, and the Cai faction. If Ling Qi hadn't taken out that puppet, it's entirely possible she'd also be put in a formation like that and blamed for its actions, only to be heroically saved by Sun Liling. Just like what happened with Ji Rong.

I admit, I like this mainly because I hate Sun Liling and want to blame her for everything. I also like the implications to Ji Rong's character and that he wasn't just a petty fucker but someone that, confident in his raw talent and obvious in his dislike of the nobility, made no friends and hosed up a meeting with Cai. Making him real easy to set up and get turned into a literal pawn by another high ranking noble, aimed directly at the sort of noble most likely to not accept whatever bullshit gave Ji Rong the chip on his shoulder in the first place.

In conclusion, gently caress Sun Liling. Ji Rong should just go find a cave somewhere and cultivate.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




I don't think they are really slowing down intentionally or anything. Cai had to run a faction, Sun did as well, that takes time and resources. Sun doesn't mind the resource cost as much, of course, being the spoiled grandchild of a White, to the extent of her granddad blatantly rigging the preliminary brackets.

It's important to keep in mind that Ling Qi is not a good measure for growth, she isn't even a good measure for growth for a Talent 6 cultivator. She had a ton of resources and opportunities other commoner Talent 6, or even noble Talent 6, cultivators don't get. The favor of the Grinning Moon is a pretty big deal for one thing. For all people joke Ji Rong is a xianxia protagonist, so is Ling Qi (just of a different variety). Whether this changes or not going forward, I don't know, but for whatever reason the dice decreed Ling Qi would have an absurdly lucky first year.

On Arts, I'm pretty sure Ling Qi actually had more Arts in general and more Arts mastered than Bai Meizhen did at time of breakthrough, Ling Qi actually sat on that breakthrough point for quite awhile before moving on.

e: i am also going to accept the idea that Sun Liling is sabotaging Ji Rong on no evidence or even much of a reason for it, purely on the merit of gently caress Sun Liling

SerSpook fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jul 20, 2018

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Sampatrick posted:

We have more raw Arts known, but we know for a fact that some Arts require way more cultivation in order to master. I'm guessing that most of the arts that the monsters have are probably along those lines.

I mean, things like Sable Crescent Step are comparable to what Bai Meizhen's own movement technique, or it was back when it was first found. It, and the other core arts of what Ling Qi does certainly takes longer, but not a truly massive amount. I'm unaware of where we know of these Arts that take so much longer that they have, beyond something like I just mentioned?

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Sampatrick posted:

Oh no, I'm just making an assumption. I just think it odd that all the monsters are, although clearly advancing, also advancing much more slowly compared to Ling Qi. I think it unlikely that they wouldn't have comparable drugs and the like to assist in cultivation, so I'm kinda assuming that they have some really expensive arts (like Abyssal Exhalation) that they have in their back pocket and haven't been revealing.

I see where you're coming from and I think I see where the disagreement is. Once you hit Green, you slow down a whole lot. It takes 1200 successes to reach Appraisal, and then I'd not be surprised if it doubles to get to Foundation. The gap with Ling Qi has narrowed in the sense that now everyone is in the real world of cultivation and gains will start to take months of effort, so the advantage they had at the start of the year was basically completely eaten away. Obviously they still hold advantage in terms of Arts available to them and talismans and the like.

HundredBears posted:

Sun Liling and Bai Meizhen, at least, started out four to five months of cultivation ahead of Ling Qi, broke through to the third realm four to five months before she did and advanced a stage in that realm a while ago, likely four to five months before she will (maybe even longer in the case of Sun Liling). They're advancing at roughly the same pace, but it feels like she's gaining on them because the gap is shrinking in relative terms: the difference between zero and four looks very different than the difference between twelve and sixteen.

This is basically true. Bai Meizhen started cultivating earlier than that, so did Cai Renxiang, but effectively none of it really mattered until around 14 years old. The gap in raw time is similar but the realm differences have greatly narrowed because, in the grand scheme of things, a few months is nothing.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Its Rinaldo posted:

In Forge of Destiny news the main character busts out some King Fu Mean Girls level shade and then air drops her snake turtle onto a giant bears face before dunking on her opponent.

it was beautiful and everything i ever wanted to see, a flawless victory over a superior cultivation opponent

i also really enjoy the conversation before the duel, what ling qi said was completely true so chu song has no real response beyond incredible rage, and that rage meant ling qi got to control the pace of the entire match

e: also on a broader strategic level, ling qi didn't reveal anything new that she can do, nothing, that's gotta be making ji rong think a bit

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

I'm looking forward to binging Forge of Destiny again. I think it's been about a couple months since I last read it; the tournament hadn't started yet. The longer I wait, the longer I can enjoy reading it.

The tournament stuff is really some of the best stuff so far. Some great political and action stuff in it. Some real surprises too.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

I've been catching up in Forge of Destiny, and I'm pretty sad about the end of the year, because unlike most stories I actually entirely believe that the writer will let certain characters mostly disappear from the story (because their lives are just naturally going in a very different direction than Ling Qi's and the author is extremely good at having other characters interact realistically with the setting). Su Ling, for example, is almost certainly going to mostly disappear, and the same is going to be true for the Golden Fields characters who don't make Inner Sect. I bet Meizhen is also pretty sad that she's not going to get to live with Ling Qi anymore.

One thing I'm really curious about is whether new characters will be introduced in the year below Ling Qi, and how they'll interact with the plot. It would be neat if some other hyper-talented character(s) show up.

Thinking about it, all the Outer Sect disciples that Ling Qi had 3 dots of relationship with (or more) got into the Inner Sect (well Li Suyin probably did, won't know for sure until next update). So it won't be so bad, all the major figures will be there. And some of those provide connections to other Outer Sect characters, plus Ling Qi will have a professional connection with some of them for many years.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




I think her fights and style are pretty fun to read to be honest. Lasers are fun, but so is creating a literal rave in the middle of a fight. Lightning arms are cool but Ling Qi can literally turn into darkness or teleport from shadow to shadow. Blood limbs are sweet, but so is creating a mist that is filled with twisted and monstrous creatures that feed on the poor fools caught within.

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Ytlaya posted:

It just doesn't have the "oomph" of blastin' a dude or punching him in the face, though!

I mean, Hoarsfrost Carress is pretty blasty, I don't think that's actually been used in the tournament yet. Maybe against Shen Hu? Only Spring's End Aria was used against Chu Song, which is kinda hilarious considering how badly she lost, everything was literally passive stuff so Ling Qi was regaining qi faster than she spent it.

Sampatrick posted:

But Frozen Soul Serenade includes some crazy good blasting abilities

Yeah!

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SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




So uhhh... Forge of Destiny, eh? I suggest anyone not caught up go get caught up because the Ji Rong fight has happened.

Nothing can resist the awesome might of the Moon Rave. And worms. Lots of worms.

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