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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Waldorf Sixpence posted:

As someone who raids two to three times a week and has seen no progression or loot or anything in nearly a year, and no new raids in two years
holy loving poo poo dude, quit and go do something else with your free time. doing things multiple times a week for no results for a year or more is insane, and it's triply so in an MMO with basically no raiding culture. this admission is sending up all sorts of addiction problem warning bells, even if you don't realize it

M_Sinistrari posted:

Since we're talking old MMOs, what was the allure around Star Wars Galaxies? I didn't start playing MMOs until DDO and my frame of reference has been WoW, LOTRO, Secret World and SWTOR. From how people in SWTOR wax nostalgic about SWG, it sounds as if it was more like Secret Life with a Star Wars skin. What was the big deal with SWG? Was it just that point in time of something Star Wars combined with MMO or something more?
It was a big open ended thing with a lot of social aspects and building and such when there wasn't a lot of games like that at the time. The problem is the mechanics were horrible and it was absolutely poo poo at actually being a Star Wars game*, so when SOE tried to retool it to actually not be poo poo they sort of double screwed themselves since it still wasn't all that fun and it removed a lot of the unique atmosphere that attracted the playerbase it did have. Not to mention completely revamping the game from the ground up like two weeks after an expansion dropped...

*I know when I play a Star Wars game I totally want to run a moisture farm or dance on a table for hours!

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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Darth Baras is pretty much entirely redeemed by his VA yeah. The guy can totally chew the scenery.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Fuzz posted:

I'm just glad I got the full set of the exp armor. That was the one must have thing from DvL, and if you missed out on it that really sucks for you because that set is stupidly hilarious for making alts.
If you ground enough DvL stuff to get this why would you need more alts?

I admit I didn't bother with the event myself since I already had one character of each class from the big bonus XP event during the leadup to KotFE, and I wasn't doing all that again. :effort:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Okay, so... what's going on with Assassin lightsaber charges? Are they still there as a toggle skill or not? Since a half dozen different talents and passives reference them, but I don't actually have them anymore as either a usable ability or a passive in the ability list, and I can't train them again at the trainer. Is there something I'm missing, or is my character just turbofucked? :psyduck:

EDIT: Aha, they're passives. But apparently whatever was replacing lighting charge with surging charge in Deception was broken and just makes it vanish from the list entirely instead. :ughh:

Asimo fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Nov 30, 2016

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


See the edit. Apparently whatever's supposed to be granting Surging Charge isn't actually giving it, or at least it's not showing up in the ability list. Respeccing gives Lighting Charge back into the list, but it goes away again the second I pop back into Deception and doesn't grant Surging Charge. I'm guessing the talent is trying to grant the now-invalid toggle instead of whatever the new passive power is. :downs: Well, guess I'll try a different spec...

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


It's the sort of thing that would have been great as a supplement to dropped gear and commendation gear, a nice bonus you'd get along the that would help smooth other sources of RNG out and give some bonuses for doing stuff.

But then they remove drops and commendations. So yeah I got no idea. :geno:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Medullah posted:

the Wampa companion is humongous.
It has some unique skills too, or at least new animations/reskins of them. :allears: I just wish it was less obnoxious to max the affection of best companions.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


I have to admit it's really kind of obnoxious how Bioware's outright removed a lot of easily accessible gear over the life of the game, especially considering how big a focus there is on collecting cosmetic stuff. I can totally see an understand the reason - streamlining things so it's easier to understand or what not - but it wouldn't be that hard to shove a <Legacy Vendor> or something like that somewhere on the fleet as a credit sink.

But then I have no idea what the gently caress they were thinking when they stripped out commendations entirely and such, so hey.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


It's more that it takes a giant smug deconstructive poo poo all over the concepts and themes of the setting, better written or not.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Sure.

I just can't exactly blame Bioware/Lucasarts for not exactly sticking close to the plot afterwards though.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Medullah posted:

KOTOR2 is the most dividing game I've ever seen.
It's also the most divided game, considering they only ever relased half of it. :iamafag:

And really a lot of dumbness in the franchise - even in many official spinoffs and licensed products - comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of the force, assuming there's a yin-yang sort of light/dark balance, when it's actually that there's "the force" that is the omnipresent bond between life and all that, and "the dark side" that's a corruption of this. It's not some sort of separate but equal thing, if you use the dark side you are inherently broken. Look at all the sith and villains throughout the actual movies - the Emperor is a scheming, power mad tyrant who gets his only joy from proving that others are as morally compromised as he is. Darth Vader is ruled by his fear and doubt, and even in the original trilogy he admits he hasn't even attempted to redeem himself because he doesn't think he deserves it. And Kylo Ren- ... okay, this one's a gimme. I won't go so far and say that the main subtext of the series is that the galaxy desperately needs mental health services, but it's telling that the heroes only win through the trust, understanding, and support of their friends.

I mean yeah it's obvious that Kreia is feeding the main character a load of bullshit but the whole narrative of KotOR2 (including things from lots of other characters beside her) is still trying to deconstruct the series from a place that misunderstands it. And I'd rather take media that flubs something but does it earnestly and entertaining (like SWTOR here, or some of the other spinoffs) than a dreary, grinding, nihilistic slog of a game that seems to be giving a taunting middle finger to the property it's supposed to be part of.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Magmarashi posted:

I really never liked that the canon puts the Jedi's teachings of suppressing your emotions and 'humanity' up on a pedestal. It's about as poo poo as always showing the Dark Side as being emotion-roid-rage fueled monsters.
It's a massive misunderstanding of the vaguely Buddhist philosophy George was pilfering from for the movies, too. Not that having the Jedi being kind of broken and dogmatic in the prequels is inherently a bad thing though.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


M_Sinistrari posted:

About that: You do meet Skadge in the Rusk alliance alert and you do get the option to kill off either Skadge or Rusk. From what I've seen in SWTOR forums posts, I think Skadge is hitting a near 100% die off rate.
A shame. As comically evil and obnoxious as Skadge is, he's at least memorably so. Rusk is totally disposable in comparison.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Knight is fine except for the bullshit twist at the start of act 3 that could have been really interesting in an actual RPG but fell totally flat because it's an MMO and I have no idea how anyone who doesn't like dumb heroics is playing a loving Star Wars game. Smuggler's similarly pretty great as long as you know what to expect going in (misadventure and jerky allies), but yeah it's a huge tonal shift once you get past the main class arc.

Trooper's utterly irredeemable though. Horrible pacing, excruciatingly dull storyline with minimal relevance, annoying NPCs, annoying or dull companions (except 4X), and it even ends in a horrible tepid anticlimax with no real payoff. Even Bounty Hunter at least has a bunch of fun little moments littered throughout it and has a pretty important finale.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Blockhouse posted:

Feel like Smuggler and Bounty Hunter have the most fun companion interactions. BH and Mako still cracking jokes about the Republic guy disguised as his lover's brother missions later stands out.

On pure story quality/what you can do though it's hard to beat Agent and Light Side Sith Warrior.
Yeah, thematically speaking the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter storylines are probably the closest match, even if they're not mirror classes. Which means Agent is probably the closest mirror to Trooper, and well...

sassassin posted:

What do you mean by "relevance" and why do you consider it important?
You spend a few dozen hours farting around to slowly assemble a group of unlikable sods to maybe kinda vaguely win one battle, and not even dramatically at that. gently caress spoilers, if you're light side you don't even get to kill the general guy, he just gets thrown in prison and Saresh takes all the credit. :geno: The Act 2 wrapup has more drama and excitement than Act 3, and that's just terrible. It's not even a scrappy underdog against the odds sort of military story like Rogue One, you're a well-equipped well supported solider of the strongest government in the galaxy at the time... who judging by their importance they'd be an NPC in any other class storyline since you literally run into a dozen different forgettable officers just like them along the way. Hooray.

I mean if you want to do that sort of thing more power to you, but it's not only a lovely fit for a star wars plot it's not nearly well paced or well-written to justify telling it. And it looks even more spectacularly worse considering the inevitable comparisons the Imperial Agent storyline which basically does everything the Trooper storyline really wants to do except it's not poo poo.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


sassassin posted:

What did Trooper "really want to do" that happens in the Agent story? The mind control? The allying with enemy forces? Depcover triple agent missions (Agent didn't succeed with this anyway)? Getting drafted to the front lines as a dramatic third act twist (which lasts 5 minutes before reverting to norm)? Companions that have no reasonable reason for being kept around?

I don't see the inevitable comparison. It's closest to Knight in approach.

edit: Knight is closer to Agent, too, in that you come to distrust the people who are sending you on your missions (since they caused all the problems in the first place), there's mind control, double agents and companions who have no business being on your ship.
There's huge themes through the Trooper story about corruption and incompetence in the Republic government, traitors in the senate, and defections of high-ranking officers to the Empire. I mean it's easy to forget because it's written like poo poo and most of it is instantly resolves with a punch to the face of the offending party, but if it wasn't poo poo it would pretty easy to see how it would lead to a lot of intrigue and overlap with the Imperial Agent themes, not least of which because they'd theoretically be the people actively working to stop you.

But it is poo poo, so hey.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Kaysette posted:

Vailyn only worked as a sarcastic/comedic foil to Arcann. Mainlining her is just awful.
Yeah, her writing is... not... good. I mean she's a one note cartoon character villain even by Star Wars dark sider standards, and that's saying something.

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Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Medullah posted:

They did a big purge of moves in the latest expansion. Many people complained that the game has massive ability bloat, so they went through and removed moves from classes that weren't meant to be used in that spec, Generally moves that were granted to the base class but were only meant to be used in one Advanced Class - Examples are Cover for Smugglers/Operatives, Rocket Punch/Stockstrike for Mercenaries/Commandos, Shiv/Blaster Whip for Snipers/Gunslingers, Flamethrower from Mercenaries/Commandos, etc.

So sadly this means that those of us that liked to do stylish finishes occasionally with a Rocket Uppercut or a Stab don't get to do that anymore.
The double irony is that they didn't even really simplify the main rotations any, which was the actual issue. I mean it's still a net positive to have eay less bar bloat, but sheesh. :downs:

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