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Cool Buff Man posted:They've got the 10th best offense in the league and their ortg is better with him on the floor so I'm not sure that's a very good argument as long as they're still winning 15th best offense against the 5th easiest opponents defensive schedule.
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Dec 12, 2016 20:34
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Strenuous Manflurry posted:Friends, I periodically pull up Robert Horry clutch moments and I still haven't seen him miss in a critical situation. I'm sure, at least once, he's fired a three at the last second and had it clank. Can anyone recall one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6V1-UraQAs https://gfycat.com/SilkyBouncyAbyssiniancat dokmo fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Dec 12, 2016 |
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Dec 12, 2016 20:51
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Cool Buff Man posted:Ok, but how is he "ruining their offense"? Do you see any other path for that roster to start 15-9 in the western conference besides Russell Westbrook doing everything he can? They can't put ball in hoop To be honest I don't see a way they could improve a lot, but there is an easy way they could improve a little. Westbrook is jacking up 4 pullup threes per game while hitting 26% of these, when he could literally blow by every defender in the league. The team has the best collection of cutters and rollers, No defense can defend Westbrook's drives, they fear his finishing and passing off the bounce. If he cut out three of those pull up threes, and had three more layups or passes for dunks, that looks to me like a 1 point per game improvement in offense, which would put them almost in the top 10.
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Dec 12, 2016 21:00
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Myles Turner is Bobby Portis. I said it now you can't forget it.
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Dec 13, 2016 17:30
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EvanTH posted:I will forever remember this as a comparison I did not understand ! Young mid-range shooting 4s with limited offensive ability who fans are inexplicably excited about?
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Dec 13, 2016 18:22
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roundmidnight posted:I like reasonable player assessments and all but honestly if you say people are "inexplicably" excited about Myles Turner and comparing him to Bobby Portis maybe you need a nap. Maybe you're right, but when I said last year Portis was totally mediocre nobody bought it because they were dazzled by something or other and not his play. So I'm making another prediction about Turner.
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Dec 13, 2016 18:46
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Dec 13, 2016 19:02
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Myles Turner's instincts on the pnr are all wrong. He doesn't set good screens, he sets them in the wrong direction or at the wrong angle, he doesn't communicate with the ball. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7--EoospVI
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Dec 13, 2016 20:06
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Paul Zuvella posted:He's 20. I get why he's not good, I'm wondering why people think he is good.
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Dec 13, 2016 20:18
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straight up brolic posted:I like that Turner who is allegedly clueless in PNR is generating more ppp than Towns or Porzingis in PNR. That stat is for when he touches the ball as the screener on PNRs and makes a scoring attempt, a tiny subset of all PNRs.
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Dec 13, 2016 21:47
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Metapod posted:what the hell it certainly does not seem like he has drove to the basket 30 times This still Olynyk we're talking about? The pump fake king of the NBA? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAbSKge_yTs
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Dec 14, 2016 01:03
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Remember when a bunch of spanish basketball players pretended to be retarded so they could win the gold medal at the paralympics? It was 17 years ago today that they were ordered to return their medals. I have this date on my calendar to remind myself how terrible people can be, even basketball players.
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Dec 14, 2016 17:44
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Crazy Ted posted:The thing is, it didn't used to be a scam. Coaches and players' consensus across all sports used to be that you needed a 4-6 week preseason to get ready. Preseason is enormously valuable for coaches and front offices. Coaches need to have their playbooks ready by the time the season starts because there is no time to change things during the season, and front offices need to see how the nonguaranteed players do in game situations. Now we're going to have to cut guys based on like 20 minutes of playing time. I'd rather get rid of all star week than two preseason games.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:32
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euphronius posted:How important are non guaranteed guys . Really. Say you work in the front office of a team. That makes you, at best, the 16th most important contributor to your team's success. But personnel decisions are by far the most important thing you do. Choosing those guys may not be very important compared to what your stars are doing, but it is the most important thing you were hired to do.
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Dec 15, 2016 18:47
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R.D. Mangles posted:how common is it for a team to have a back-to-back home and home against the same team code:
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Dec 16, 2016 03:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r13mJ-HyBFY
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Dec 16, 2016 21:06
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MourningView posted:Anyway people who said it was a bad trade are dumb it was a good trade that made perfect sense for both teams I thought it was a dumb trade because there are maybe a dozen players I would trade the number one pick for and Kevin Love wasn't one of them but I guess the Cavs won a championship and are cool with paying a billion dollars in luxury tax so it all worked out.
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Dec 18, 2016 22:48
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DeimosRising posted:This seems oddly decontextualized for you. Wiggins was never going to be a good enough player to be a major contributor on a contender before Lebron got old and died. That may be true. I mean, what really matters is that lebron wanted the trade to happen and it did, so it's a good trade if it keeps him happy. I was not aware of the Cavs willingness to pay so much lux tax, which also makes the trade look better from a 2014 perspective. I still think that Wiggins would he a much more productive player playing off the ball, but even if he wasn't you could still trade him for a shooting four like Ibaka or something. I still think trading a #1 pick for anyone that doesn't have James in his name is probably a bad thing, but I could be wrong.
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Dec 19, 2016 00:58
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Tae posted:Really, you wouldn't trade a #1 pick for westbrook or Durant? Or even Jarden? I was exaggerating. There are maybe 10-20 players I would probably trade a #1 pick for pre-draft.
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Dec 19, 2016 01:06
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Lockback posted:It took depressingly long for everyone to finally come around to this. Would you have called Kevin Love a hall of famer in the summer of 2014?
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Dec 19, 2016 02:58
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MourningView posted:
He would have been an extremely tradeable asset on a rookie contact. If it didn't work out they could have always traded him for a Love-like player later. You're asking why people didn't like the trade at the time. I'm saying that selling your owner on being a long-term payer of the luxury tax is not a given. Many or most other owners would not have reacted positively to paying so much for a one-way way player while giving up a cheap, desirable athletic player with a good potential to be great. I think the smart play was to wait and see how well Wiggins played, and moved him if it didn't work. Now we know that the owner was always willing to pay the tax so whatever I think is moot. There's a chance that everything I say is stupid. But people are acting like it was a no brainer now, but that's not how I remember the general range of opinions.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:20
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The other thing is people now say Love is a great fit but at the time people wondered how a ball dominant post scorer would work as a pick and pop shooter. I would say that a lot of people wondered about his role at least through the first season. It was not a given that Love would fit in perfectly.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:35
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Lockback posted:I still don't think he is a perfect fit, the 3rd guy's numbers almost always take a hit. But I think you still make that move to bring in a versatile scorer like that. In retrospect you're obviously right, but what I'm trying to get at is that it's much more difficult trying to forecast this stuff as it's happening, and I'm asking people to think back to what they thought back then. I think a lot of people are misremembering either their opinions or how confident they were in those opinions. I just know that I wasn't the only one who thought it was a bad idea back then, even though it sure feels like that now.
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Dec 19, 2016 04:47
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I'm glad we went through this soul searching discussion about Kevin Love because it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately: the way we remember our predictions when we get them right and forget about the uncertainty we faced when making them. I'm looking through my predraft notes and I'm embarrassed by how low my success rate is. It may be helpful to have a prediction contest the next time a big trade happens so we can look back later and see exactly what we thought at the time and be humbled by how wrong we were (or gloat about how right we were). This would be different than just predicting wins or who makes the playoffs because there would be greater uncertainty, the main thing people forget.
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Dec 19, 2016 20:24
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With Clint Capela out for 6 weeks, here's a chance for you to do some forecasting in an environment of uncertainty. With Capela in the starting lineup, the Rockets have had the #4 offense (adjusted for opponent—see http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017_ratings.html), based on being probably the best pick and roll attack in the league. They are ranked #16 defense overall, with a decent pick and roll defense. Over the next six weeks, their opponents will average 107.0 ORTG, which is the 6th easiest, and their opponents will average 107.4 DRTG, which is the 4th hardest. They will play 11 games at home and 13 games on the road. Without their primary pick and roll big, what do you think will happen to the Rockets offense while playing against the 4th toughest schedule of defenses over that span? And without their only rim protector, what do you think will happen to their defense while playing against the 6th worst combined offenses over that span? I predict that the Rockets offense will be ranked between #6-#8 on January 31. I predict that their defense will fall apart, and drop to between #20-#24.
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Dec 20, 2016 04:36
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:Bruno Caboclo still doesnt look like a basketball player it's unbelievable. I've never seen a guy who when standing still looks more like a basketball player, who looks like he wants to be anything but a basketball player when playing basketball.
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Dec 20, 2016 17:59
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If you get a chance to watch him in the d league it's wild. he is the most athletically dominating player out there but he's loving around jacking up Buddy Hield shots, and blocking layups while falling backwards out of bounds. He looks like he doesn't know what a basketball is and doesn't want to know but he's still long enough and athletic enough to be the best player without giving a poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2016 18:09
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Javale is dumb, Bruno just doesn't give a poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2016 18:21
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BWV posted:I'd rather just compile a list of bad unicorns. The raptors had a bunch of these over the years: Keon Clark Oliver Miller Mo Peterson Tracy Murray
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Dec 21, 2016 21:35
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Luis Scola is more unicorny than Bill Russell.
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Dec 21, 2016 21:56
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Dejan Bimble posted:This is all based on vague memories, but Wallace was more like Lebron's body with Tony Allen's brain and hands. Barkley is just shaped differently from other human beings. The way his shoulders start and then his arms just keep going reminds me of Dennis Rodman, that sort of freakish arm length and shoulder mobility. Mo Pete was 3 and D guy before that was really a thing but he had actual ball skills and an ungodly ability to hit the craziest shots. If he played for the Lakers he would have been famous. Keon was a dumb dumb one way post scorer, and Tracy Murray was a tough shooter who couldn't shoot or defend but somehow got playing time. These two players were living fossils, representatives of extinct types of players who were once plentiful but had faded away long before they stepped on the court..
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Dec 21, 2016 22:45
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Remembering Mo Pete, the man who hit layups blindfolded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTo0EY-5Yrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HtMHmyKZa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l5nHDIcOAE dokmo fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Dec 21, 2016 |
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Dec 21, 2016 22:56
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I don't know what hot takes are but Durant has always been better, I don't know many who would dispute that.
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Dec 22, 2016 17:22
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Bazemore is primarily a defender. I mean, he's not playing well, but he's still contributing.
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Dec 23, 2016 00:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pG2SF-7ae8
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Dec 27, 2016 06:33
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Femur posted:What kinda legacies do stockton and malone have? They are who I think of when I think pnr. Yeah, what's weird is that if you watch their games, there is a real lack of pick and roll. A few years ago I watched a bunch of their playoff games against the Bulls from the 90s and it struck me how few pick and rolls there were. Just to make sure, I just watched the first quarter of this random game from 2001. I count zero ball screens. To put that into context, the average NBA team in 2016 has 16 ball screens in the first quarter, and nobody has less than ten. There are a ton of screens in this game, including a lot of back screens which you don't really see today outside a GSW game, but no ball screens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTHMm2Etr5g  John Crotty alert Look at this play. This would absolutely be a pick and roll by 2006, either a mid pnr with Ostertag or a step up with Donyell. 
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Dec 28, 2016 22:48
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Femur posted:that's funny, I remember announcers kept talking about how great they were at it.. and I guess stockton dribbled around and perhaps ran pass with malone in the vacinity and passed back to him for a 12footer, and that was a pnr then? the pnr was attached to malone shooting wide open mid range shots iirc. I asked four old guys in the office to say the first thing they thought of when I said "Stockton, Malone" and they all said "pick and roll" without hesitation. Those things are intimately associated, like Rodman and rebounding, or Jordan being an rear end in a top hat. There has to be something here, but I don't know what I could be missing. Maybe PNR was used situationally. Maybe they busted it out for the 4th quarter. Or maybe, because in the 90s like every loving play was an isolation, a couple of pick and rolls stood out even more. I'm going to try to track down some more video.
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Dec 29, 2016 03:28
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I watched the first quarter of this game from 1993, and Utah used 5 ball screens, which isn't much by today's standards but at least is approaching a reasonable number. However, Stockton only had two of those, something called Jay Humphries used the other three. And the plays began from a strange horns set with the bigs at the elbows, the screener facing the wrong way, and moving the entire time.
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Dec 29, 2016 06:34
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I found this article written after game 2 of the 1998 finals. This supports with the idea that while the Jazz (who had the a top five offense almost every year in the 90s) were known as the pick and roll team, they ran the play far less than people remember, and far less than any team in 2016, who average 70 ball screens per game, and no team averages less than 40.
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Dec 29, 2016 19:59
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Paul Zuvella posted:Would a Stockton/Malone duo in 2016 running a 2016 offense be better or worse? I see them as a perfect PNR ballhandler screener combo in that Stockton's passing and shooting were perfectly suited to modern offenses and Malone's screening, his ability to finish on dives, and his shooting would create the same problems as say Marc Gasol or Blake Griffin. One of the difference between those Utah teams and any random 2016 NBA team is that they didn't take a lot of threes, they used pick and roll entirely differently. I'm not sure how much of this is because of the rule set at the time, probably a lot of it. Maybe illegal defense rules (eg no zone D) made it so that perimeter defenders stuck to their guys even on the weakside so much they didn't give up open looks. But Utah used PNRs mostly as a two man play, either to get Stockton a good midrange look, or to hit Malone for the long jumper, whereas modern teams use pnrs for everything, to send rebounders to the rim, to set up a post entry, to set up a weakside three. Utah didn't do this back then.
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Dec 29, 2016 21:34
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