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twistedmentat posted:100 people Trump will find and arrest to end BLM riots!" and so on. *Puts a small, yellow dog onto his head. Clears throat. Squares shoulders. Tiny hands are poised to gesticulate.* "You know folks. It's sad. Sad really. Back in my day we knew how to deal with protesters. They don't get it. They don't. So sad. Sad that they don't get it. Within the first hundred days I propose the DAF act in order to quell urban unrest. What's the DAF act? It's terrifiic folks, you won't believe it. See we have to go back into our history to find solutions to everyday problems. And with urban unrest? It'll be a total sneak attack, because brown people don't show up here! *laughter* I kid, I kid. Some of my favorite friends happen to be the blacks. Yes folks, the DAF act. Short for dogs and fire hoses. That's right. The good ones won't have to worry about it. It'll be safe. And every single drop of water will be sourced from our very own Trump brand bottled water. It'll be terrific folks. Just terrific you wouldn't believe it. We need law and order. Law and order. *Rambles on for a bit before finally remembering his catchphrase, but with a twist*.Dogs and fire hoses will make America great again!"
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Nov 2, 2016 03:03
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Is that book "Where the Wild Things Are"? Oh my gosh Obama is adorable. :3
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Nov 2, 2016 05:56
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ImpAtom posted:It's a photoshopped image of Obama, yes. I am severely disappointed at the lack of shirt over head Obama being photoshopped. 
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Nov 2, 2016 06:03
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A Winner is Jew posted:Nope. To be fair the anti-Christ is the Christian boogeyman. As I understand it there are a finite amount of people who could be the anti-Christ yet I hear people get tarred with it every few years when those arguments hit mainstream media.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:28
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iospace posted:Right article this time: That Trump is a con artist is news to no one.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:32
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ImpAtom posted:Wait, did someone seriously leak the name of the rape accuser who specifically chose not to come forward out of fear? Looks like this has been answered. However on a related note the fifteen (now sixteen) year old who Wiener sent dick pics to got her name leaked by the FBI in the course of the investigation and had her life casually ruined despite being assured of her anonymity.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:50
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Nessus posted:At this point I'm surprised nobody's tried to do a murder and frame the Clintons for it. Maybe they have and it just never made the news. Murder is big deal poo poo. A murder that was nationally pointed at the Clintons couldn't be swept under the rug. There'd be too much attention. The idea that she's some sort of puppetmaster murderess really only floats with the alt-right crowd. It doesn't have traction with average folks. Better to just paint her as a liar and untrustworthy in some way.
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Nov 3, 2016 04:55
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Teddybear posted:NATE Trump Tromp Trombone Corncob. DO YOU SEE?
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Nov 3, 2016 06:38
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Paradoxish posted:I'm getting kind of sick of hearing this. The reason none of this stuff matters is because Trump is already sunk. He's going to get like 40% of the vote or maybe even less. He can't be sunk anymore. There's a point where you literally cannot harm a candidate any further thanks to a core of voters who will always pull the lever for their team. I agree in part. The vote for him is going to be depressed because the narrative that both candidates have been smeared with deserved or otherwise has been pretty foul. However his numbers do fluctuate as quite a few republicans have come back. Many of the Never Trumpers are grumbling and coming back. However it seems like at least in Florida you're seeing 20% of them voting for Hillary in the early votes. I guess Hillary's history of center-right policies as well as her husband's are attractive to older republicans who don't vote strictly down ballot. However Trump's numbers do fluctuate. Him bragging about sexual assault brought him down to 36% when his lowest was around 39%. The ceiling has been permanently lowered for him. However what bothers me most is that the FBI is playing politics this close to election day. I'm not sure if Comey is doing damage control, spiking her wheel, covering his rear end or doing a combination of all three. I don't go in for ideological purges, but allowing alphabet agencies and the bureaucracy at large to interfere in elections is a bad precedent to set. I'm hoping for a purge of people who run their mouths this close to an election. I don't want to see it popping up in 2020 and beyond. I want the bureaucrats to do their jobs, not campaign for their favorites. There's a theory in political science that says that people that work for the government can never truly be middle class because with that wealth often comes interest in political speech. However if you work for the government you can't be middle class because you can't criticize uncle Sam, or whomever you work for really. Not openly anyway. For good or for ill screwing with those precedents is not healthy for the country when one mixes the work the government actually does to keep stuff running and supporting one party or politician over another. In short I want them to be apolitical and do their jobs. That might be a tall order, but in history ideological purity doesn't make the railroads run on time. In any political system some of the most powerful people are the ones who violate precedent. Traditions that aren't enshrined as law that people follow because that's just the way things have always been. Sometimes they're arbitrary, but often enough they exist because those traditions help keep those political systems together where it might be awkward to legislate stuff or the political will never existed to legislate it until someone violated it. Conceding to your opponent if you lose is a tradition, not law, but as soon as you not only don't but spout off at the mouth about how things are rigged you're interjecting dangerous ideas into the electorate. Personally I think those ideas only exist because DJT is intensely prideful and they just happen to resonate with his followers so of course he keeps saying it. For example, consider the nuclear football. The device that allows the president with incredibly few checks and balances to launch a nuclear missile at a target of his or her choosing. This completely bypasses congress' ability to give a yay or nay on war. This was an expedient as missiles could be launched at any time in any direction and congressional approval takes time. It's also a relic left over from the cold war. Imagine if someone used it not as a last resort, but to send a political message. The precedent and prestige of merely having it and never using it would go out the window. Congress would make attempts to claw back war powers from the president. Not to mention people making GBS threads the bed across the world if it didn't start a war or blind and panicked retaliation from other powers. That extreme example of precedent over law exists just waiting to be used with so few checks and balances. A relic from the cold war that could really gently caress everything up.
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Nov 4, 2016 03:08
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Tom Guycot posted:I agree fully, thats why I'd love to just see an awesome fast and furious style heist movie with lando chewie han and the rock playing someone. However, I'm pretty sure Disney is going to make it an origin story, or at least make sure all those 'origin' elements are there. I'm okay with origin stories as long as they're not more than three to five minutes long to start. Less if you're introducing multiple people. Maybe the rest of the origin is baked into the story itself because they're not just talking about the character, but explaining why it's important instead of how he was badass this one time and got this wicked dueling scar that is never talked about again. It's why sequels do better than the original movies so often. You don't have to waste a lot of time reintroducing everyone. You don't have to spend as much time reestablishing who everyone is because most of these people saw the movie/show/book years ago. You just get into the story immediately.
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Nov 4, 2016 03:23
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gfsincere posted:Just decided to pop in before bed and dump a bunch of terrible opinions in order sleep better, like a night time poop of sorts? Step off my night time poops. They're the best. 
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Nov 4, 2016 03:32
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Admiral Ray posted:I subscribe to the belief of ultimate responsibility. The admins have the ultimate say of what is and isn't allowed and so bear the ultimate moral responsibility for the content they allowed on the site. Not being able to keep up means they knowingly allowed a thriving child porn exchange to develop and ignored it despite the clear and obvious danger of having a subreddit dedicated to sexualizing minors administered by a creepy weirdo. They should have shut that poo poo down from the word go and are hosed up trash people as a result. If you recall far back enough or ask someone who was here back in the day SA was a warez site for a long time and ADTRW had a no joke thriving community of pedos on it before they got flushed and exiled to form websites like 4chan. I'm 31 and have been on web forums since I was 11. I've seen that play out half a dozen times over different sites over and over again. Not exactly the same, but toxic communities forming, establishing their own quiet culture and then having their behaviors normalized. Then they get louder, people from outside of those communities notice in large enough numbers and things break apart. You don't even have to go back particularly far. GBS 1.0 was a SJW paradise and a news aggregator, but the content was pretty stellar. The SJW thing blew up after Doobie's Dog House became a thing and we got GBS 2.0. GBS 2.0 was toxic, racist, often unfunny and almost always low to no effort. They often crushed those high content posts that came around yearly. Sometimes for good reasons because weird poo poo was discovered, sometimes because everything was on fire and it spread until poo poo calmed down, but now we're on the next issue of it. I don't go back anymore as the news isn't there. I liked GBS being my news aggregator because unlike reddit the most popular votes don't go to the top and digital manipulation in order to shape public perception is definitely a thing from individuals to small companies to even governments. Barring that sometimes someone hooks onto an idea that sounds correct but is actually wrong, but the fact that it was upvote worthy means that it's been made fact by popularity rather than veracity. While SA wasn't immune from that, it's more resistant. The discussions could also be longer form and ever changing rather than having a thousand different shots in the dark where your ideas are rated and internet points are like some sort of goal. I've seen this poo poo happen over and over on other websites. Small ones, big ones, boutique ones with less than fifty members, etc. Even reddit resisting getting rid of r/jailbait and r/coontown wasn't exactly new in my experience as it's easier to pretend you don't have a problem than have a problem AND despite that poo poo being foul if you allow censorship you have to dictate what those guidelines for censorship are. How loose or how strict. The easier path is definitely no censorship beyond what's strictly legal. After all, GBS to a lesser extent was sort of where reddit was in terms of that censorship ten or fifteen years ago. I think what changed webforums the most over the years was the introduction of John Q. Public to them. Pre-social media they were really only for nerds. Now they're for everyone. The echo chambers were always there, but now they're bigger and louder than they ever were. Grandma is on facebook and it's weird when it started it was only allowing college students to create an account when it was shiny and new. I read reddit, but primarily smaller niche subforums. I post at SA. I like the format better even if it isn't perfect and the  format works for me in enforcing a certain quality control.
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Nov 4, 2016 06:32
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Xand_Man posted:Honestly that's why I feel hopeful for Hillary. She's smart enough to recognize that Trumpism isn't going to go away after the election and that's it's a big problem for the country. I don't think it's going away, but I feel like it can be disarmed to an extent with certain carrots and sticks. You don't even need to get most of them. Just enough to get them to stop grumbling as much while their demographic continues to shrink. Still a tall order, but I think it can be done.
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Nov 4, 2016 06:43
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Yoshifan823 posted:I didn't realize it until reading this post, but I've been on forums since I was about that same age. I'm only 25, but that's still a solid >50% of my life. I think that there's an art to moderation. I sort of did it for a while, but I don't have the temperament for it. Dunno about gamefaqs though. Never got into it, though I did start out with a gaming forum about Harvest Moon 64 waaaaaaay back in the day after I looked for questions and found a community. Then it was on to Wizard World of which was run by Wizard, a comic magazine, which reminded me largely of SA before it died. Jumped between the refugees of those forums for about fifteen years. Now I'm mostly on SA and Reddit. SA is pretty solid and I like it, if quieter than it was. Reddit is occasionally cool, but you really have to look for nuggets of gold among the poo poo. And outside of the tiny communities there's really no chance to build anything resembling a community like you can with SA. The format is all wrong for it as it's rare when I see anything past response number three not get hidden. Reddit is meant to be seen, but the threshold for normal interaction is rather low. SA's is rather high because the format is right for it. I think SA has a few more good years left in it, but I see reddit and it's not as on the ball as it used to be. It really was the front page of the internet. Now not so much. Too much signal, not enough noise, even for reddit, and I knew it was in trouble when it would no longer be ahead of the news organizations for breaking stories. Mostly I'm wondering what the next big forum is going to be. It won't be one of the chans. Digg is dead. Reddit is degrading. SA is shrinking but its quality is still pretty high. I dunno. I'm not sure another website could moderate as well as SA because the buy in helps moderate in and of itself. I can't really see another website getting away with it when there's so much out there already for free, though often far more shittily moderated.Also if you have the link for that helldump I'd love to read it.
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Nov 4, 2016 06:53
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Craptacular! posted:I want to "source your quote" this post so bad, since apparently that's what we do to posts like this now. I guess I have rose tinted glasses on for a lot of this because I really only started reading the forums in oh...2004? 2005? I caught the tail end of a lot of the stuff you're talking about and old (older?) timers talked about stuff. I was never around for super early SA. So I guess you caught me, though I wasn't trying to bullshit. I never, ever was around for this site pre-2004-5ish. I don't know the entire sordid history of this place. I just know what I've read on SAclopedia and from people talking about it in those super early days. Mostly I was just trying to point out that what happened to reddit isn't particularly new or novel. It's happened here too where the moderation is usually better. Toxic subcultures pop up everywhere. That's just how forums work when they get past a certain level of people or cater to a specific audience.
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Nov 4, 2016 07:04
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ImpAtom posted:... Because there is a presidential election less then a week away between Hillary Clinton and someone who has, at bare minimum, stated his open intent to oppress multiple groups of people who are understandably terrified and worried? The echo chamber is definitely real here, but it's nowhere near as bad as other places I've seen. lovely opinions and bad facts stand a chance of getting challenged here. Not everyone is of the exact same opinion. I can't really see anyone arguing that Trump is objectively a fine choice for POTUS though. Talking points can fly here, but not as well. Pretty much no one here believes that he's competent, or has the correct temperament for president, or is a good businessman, or not a racist, or that he's some sort of born again Christian, or not a pathological liar or a contract breaker and thief. The man is cartoonishly incompetent for the job. Hillary has her bad qualities, but she's sane and rational. She has an interest in preserving the status quo and pushing her policy decisions just a bit further left rather than going full communism now. I'll take it. I'm for change, but I don't think the country is stable enough for radical change, either progressive or reactionary. I'll take Hillary because she has an interest in keeping all of these plates spinning rather than letting them fall.
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Nov 4, 2016 07:15
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ImpAtom posted:There's an echo chamber for HIllary Clinton here but I've said it before: It's an echo chamber because this forum has a number of people who are extremely engaged and more than willing to argue their points and the only people who come in to counter-argue tend to be trolling or actively and openly supporting some abhorrent poo poo. You can't really do a "well, maybe I can understand your viewpoint" with Donald Trump because he really, genuinely, and seriously has little to offer even more traditional conservatives whose best argument is "the Supreme Court." Which is a valid argument but also goes hand-in-hand with supporting a Supreme Court who will support some fairly abhorrent poo poo even if what they're really worried about it... well, I'll be honest and say I haven't seen a very good argument here but I'm willing to acknowledge it could exist. Yeah. I do wish that I could get more a more objective opinion about HRC's flaws. Locally I just get dumb poo poo like "SHE'S A MURDERER" and "EMAILS" and "BENGHAZI" from a friend who has bought into these ideas for so long as if everything was the truth that I can't have a rational discussion with him about the election as he's normally a sane and rational person about other stuff, even if we disagree. The republican hate machine is drat good at what it does and when it lacked information to smear her with it just made poo poo up and went with anything that could stick, because that machine isn't particularly effective at inspiring people to good purpose. It can but that's not their wheelhouse. It's just good at hate and fear.
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Nov 4, 2016 07:33
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USPOL Nov: Much Ado About Nothingburgers
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Nov 4, 2016 18:53
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:This was also a Mr. Brontosaurus (Tiny Husband?) problem and I have so many strategies. I would suggest starting out thinking in an additive way about your diet rather than subtractive. Add more vegetables, try to work your way up to at least five or six that you can stand. Mr. B had big success with spinach/yogurt smoothies, sliced bell peppers, leafy greens, and zucchini/yellow squash/eggplant minced up really fine in rice and pasta dishes. I've lost nearly forty pounds since February. I had to employ a number of strategies to actually make it work and they didn't all come together until just a few months ago: 1. Substitution. Find and eliminate my high calorie foods and put in something that I still like so eating is still fun and not a chore. 2. Manage hunger. If said foods leave me hungry at the end of the day I'm doing something wrong. Lots of protein helps. Lower carbs. 3. Exercise. Before my mom got sick and I had to take care of her I was walking at least three miles a day, and sometimes up to and maybe even past fifteen. 4. Count calories. The big one. The only thing that will lower your weight in the end is making sure you burn more calories than you take in. Period. Find your BMR and eat fewer calories than that. All of the above isn't as effective if you're not doing this. I'm supposed to eat 2350 calories a day, but aim for 1950 plus exercise. In doing this I lose just over three pounds a month as long as I'm diligent before exercise. And that's how I lost it and continue to lose it. I hope to lose another forty before I'm done. 
Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 19:04
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Mr. Brontosaurus is the same way, 6'5 and finding it vastly preferable to build muscle with cheese fries than stop eating them. Man. This is the loving truth. I'm 6'5 and I loved that poo poo. I had to leave it behind because hitting the gym all of the time just isn't in the cards for me. I can still have this stuff, but only in limited quantities.
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Nov 4, 2016 19:09
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Cingulate posted:Empirically, you're wrong. This is pretty reductionist. The 19th and 20th centuries have been outliers in terms of world history because we haven't regressed too far socially or technologically. All throughout history there were social, political and technological backslides. For example the Romans built the triple walls of Constantinople that allowed it to exist all the way up to the middle of the 15th century but they sure as poo poo couldn't make new walls like those elsewhere. The technology was lost. The Roman empire for all of its faults was stable and prosperous until it wasn't and fell into dozens upon dozens of successor states and kingdoms in which the Catholic church was really the only binding force left in the west and not really suited to the task of governance. There is no line that's better to worse or worse to better in history. History is not a discipline for people who want easy black and white answers. It's full of grey areas, heavy nuance and unknowns. I would even say that times back then were better in some ways despite the ignorance and cruelty as humans didn't have the power to exterminate themselves in nuclear fire. A power which I trust in the hands of no one. Historically progress "forwards" as you would call it is not steadily forward. We're in a weird time right now where things are better for the average Joe and Jane. We know that history is full of declines and collapses of all kinds. The fact that we haven't had one in a long time is an outlier.
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Nov 4, 2016 19:18
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GalacticAcid posted:Hahaha holy poo poo you're right, sorry. He dances and eats worms on command.
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Nov 4, 2016 19:22
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MaxxBot posted:I agree with your point but given how information is disseminated so easily now wouldn't that make such a profound technological backslide less likely? Unless of course we had mass nuclear war or something like that, I could easily see a big backslide in that case. Wouldn't even be that hard. A massive solar flare would fry most new technology on the planet. All of that data and a society and depends on computers declines precipitously overnight. Climate change forces people to move/flee. Political instability follows in its wake. Resource wars. A new disease sweeps the world. Doesn't even have to be black death. The Spanish flu killed 10% of the world. Limited war between nations. The Koreas or India/Pakistan. Imagine some of the largest cities in the world suddenly not being there anymore and what kind of panic that would cause. That's if they don't go nuclear. For one that is definitely going to happen you'll see robotics and early AI that replaces the jobs of most people and it's only scaling up. Nothing like massive unemployment to make life fun. The stability of the world is fragile. Don't assume it can take too many shocks. OR really any one big shock and fully recover.
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Nov 4, 2016 19:30
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Cingulate posted:The Romans nailed 6000 slaves to crosses alongside the Appina way. They had some impressive architecture that was hardly matched within Europe for a few hundred years, but it also took some time to match them with regards to genocide. And the loss of technology after the dark ages is usually overstated. You're talking about the Servile Wars. Yes, those were bad. Genocides and mass death to the Romans were nothing new. However just a few hundred years later there was a slave shortage because the empire wasn't expanding and it was in vogue to release slaves from bondage. It created massive instability as there was this sudden slave shortage in an economy that was based on slavery. Tit for tat if we're talking about specific instances in history. What you're talking about is a tiny blip in history. I'm talking about long term trends. Pull your focus back a bit. Rises and falls of cities, nations, empires and even people happen throughout history. There's still war, violent death, genocide, rape and slavery in our world. History teaches us that progress is not guaranteed. We're not fundamentally better than our ancestors. The bar is raised because our ancestors raised it for us. We're not that much different from humans a thousand years ago. Just better educated, better fed and less accustomed to bloodshed. That can change. I'm not saying that things can't get better. It may even be better for the entirety of my lifetime. However I'm a realist and a student of history. Perpetually ongoing progress is an outlier. Full stop. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 4, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 19:39
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Cingulate posted:To somewhat snarkyly quote Tiny Brontosaur: "- not understanding the whole "perfect is the enemy of good" thing" Sure there are slave societies. They still exist. Look to Dubai to get an example of that The FIFA world cup stadium there has a four digit body count attached to it and those people are slaves. In the US the slave trade is alive and well because it's linked with the sex trade. Beyond that slavery is still legal in the US as long as they are prisoners. Slavery never really went away. Its just not as wide spread and quieter. Slavery was A THING in the US up until World War 2. In the backwaters of the deep South in Georgia, Mississippi and Alabama there were still slaves. They were just imprisoned for whatever and then forced to work because the 13th amendment had a loophole. The Thirteenth Amendment posted:Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Slavery is still legal on the books in the US. It just isn't practiced now in that name due to the stigma attached to it. However you don't imagine that right after that was passed that people used that loophole to get those newly freed hands back to work? Perhaps you need to brush up on your history before you make broad, sweeping statements.
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Nov 4, 2016 19:54
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Cingulate posted:The difference is that while there are still factual slaves in the US and Dubai, Rome was a whole empire built entirely on slavery, and on constantly invading its neighbors. Rome is worse than the US in the same way that the antebellum south was worse than Sweden. I know that there are differences. You made a point and I proposed a counterpoint. I get that you want to defend your points but it's okay to be wrong. It means you have an opportunity to learn. I like being wrong sometimes too. It means that I get to reanalyze and upend my biases.  Moving the goalposts in order to focus the narrative on some other narrow fact is okay, but it doesn't make wrong statements any less wrong.
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Nov 4, 2016 20:05
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sit on my Facebook posted:Also extremely lol @ his "you see, the difference between Rome and the US is that Rome was built on the backs of slaves and was very belligerent, militarily It's easy to laugh and criticize. Harder to change peoples' minds. I'd rather change peoples' minds than score arbitrary points for myself. By and large I try to divorce attacking people's ideas from the people themselves. Otherwise I have really no chance of getting my message heard by anyone.
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Nov 4, 2016 20:12
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Fun, too! It doesn't really change much though. It's a bad habit in my opinion. "You have dumb opinions and are a dumb person" only makes the people who agree with you nod, not changes the mind of people who disagree with you.
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Nov 4, 2016 20:15
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RVProfootballer posted:I don't know about others, but I'm trying to suggest that these aren't monolithic "better than" and "worse than" judgments. You would rather be a homosexual in ancient Greece than in multiple countries in Africa and the Middle East today. You would rather be Jewish in ancient Rome than in Europe almost anytime in the past 1000 years. You would rather be an atheist in France in the 1790s than in the deep south in America today. For a less socially charged area, I suspect it won't be a long term phenomenon (please please), but declining basic scientific literacy and trust in science is another example where we are at risk of regressing. Etc etc. Having a steadily improving life expectancy does not negate other ways in which we have or have not made progress. Actually being a Jew in the Roman empire was pretty bad too. See several suppressed revolts and the enormous body counts attached. Being a Jew at almost any time in history has been pretty bad. Their history is caught in a constant cycle of being suppressed, enslaved and exterminated.
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Nov 4, 2016 20:20
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:To be fair, the Jewish population kind of brought it onto themselves by not acquiescing and paying lip service to the emperor and calling him divine. It's not like the Romans were intolerant of other religions. Everything about this statement made me sad. quote:It's weird growing up Jewish, because you learn about a lot of this stuff and your mind is pretty firmly set as "Jews are the underdogs" and then you grow up and realize plucky li'l Israel is doing some terrible poo poo too and now you don't know how to feel. I remember the moment when I lost my respect for Israel. Back in 2013 it came to light that Ethiopian Jews were getting depo shots without their knowledge and against their will in Israel in order to keep them from having children. It struck me hard. The one nation I thought that they at least would reject eugenics and in the end embraced those ideals in a systemic way. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...www.google.com/
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Nov 4, 2016 20:39
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A Winner is Jew posted:IIRC there is literally a mod in D&D that defended this. What was the reasoning?
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Nov 4, 2016 20:49
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Main Paineframe posted:That's because the lesson you were taught was "Jews are the underdogs" rather than the far more accurate "minorities are the underdogs", or the even more accurate "any group culturally distinct from the group in power are the underdogs". For example, European Jews have a lot of shared experiences (including the Holocaust) with the Roma, another widespread European minority that has historically retained its separate cultural identity. Thank you for that. I like seeing a different point of view, but as always I'm dubious as to whether it was an internal policy or not.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:10
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Look motherfucker, we've already gone back in time to Watergate with this loving election. Let's not bring in Helter Skelter in as well too. My brain hurts enough.
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Nov 5, 2016 01:42
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roymorrison posted:I wonder who the idiot who screws up and is unable to vote will be I live in SC. Only absentee. Thankfully the lines locally will be short.
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Nov 5, 2016 01:45
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