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LeftistMuslimObama posted:For real, for loving real. I have never met an interracial queer couple in the entire time I've been out. It's like you can cross one boundary or the other, but not both. I've know a few, but clubs and bars are still fairly segregated. I've been in and out on coverage, but wasn't turnout pretty low overall? I got the feeling during the election that a lot of people weren't in support of white nationalism, but were largely indifferent to it. Never got anywhere trying to convince them that was functionally the same thing.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:11
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OwlFancier posted:Are you saying this in terms of design, or in terms of the individual voters? Positing black people as the one true other that must be crushed under the boot heel of whiteness or else is pretty much a cornerstone of white supremacy, and it continues to stand because it's very good at getting other groups to play along in the hopes that one day they will be deemed "white" and receive the attendant privileges. It's pretty basic divide and conquer.
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Nov 9, 2016 21:34
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OwlFancier posted:I... guess? Like I can entirely accept that is a thing but I have difficulty seeing that as the primary motivation of a POC voting Trump. Especially when he's been going after lots of different POC as his scapegoat. It's not, and no one is really saying that. It's a system of oppression set very deep into our culture and institutions to insure it's propagation even without blatant racists pushing it along. Ultimately both David Duke and your hypothetical lantinx are functionally supporting white supremacy, even if they have different motivations in their heads for their actions. A lot of the posters on this thread just don't have to patience to teasing that out when it's at best a minute distinction, and often leads to people just making excuses for why we shouldn't be as mean to the non-deliberate racists in our lives because they just don't know any better. And this is probably getting into white-feeling derail territory, so I'm not going to respond anymore. But I do have a question for TB, Koalas, Negromancer, and the other black posters. Do you want to have these sort of "how to I address/fix people's racism" discussions in this space?
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Nov 9, 2016 22:26
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negromancer posted:Not really, because it should be loving obvious. Once upon a time I would have said it'd be easy if all expression of racism were as obvious as "hey dude, I like kiddy porn" but it's the post Trump election, so maybe it will be. At least they'll be easy to spot.
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Nov 9, 2016 22:42
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OwlFancier posted:You might be able to salvage enough to win an election which is a better position to effect actual change from than having control of none of the branches of government, however. We won with Obama and somehow we still got Trump. People don't suddenly start being less racist because they're more financially secure. That might, might, reduce conflicts, but that's only a bandaid until bad time come around again which they always will. We need to put our energy into efforts that specifically target ending racism and reducing the burden of oppression on black people.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:10
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OwlFancier posted:gently caress racism and gently caress poverty, it makes no sense to me to say you have to pick one or the other. We always pick poverty and for some reason racism never seems to go away. That's the point. Too many discussion about fixing racism seem to end up in this spiral of making things better for poor whites so they'll perhaps stop being so lovely. That's a dead end since so much of their worth is poised on being better than POC, and black people specifically. Full communism now could come, and the Trumps of the world would still be able to leverage themselves into power by suggesting that black people are getting more and that they can put a stop to it. I'm willing to try and unpack that sociopathy on a individual basis with people I think I might be able to change, but as far as policy goes, I'm done trying to convert the unbending.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:51
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negromancer posted:Just...don't. My uncle is too large for me to Stone Cold Stunner. Can I sub in a look of profound disappointment over the BBQ sauce?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:28
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Pretty sure he's saying white people are poo poo in general; he's just not exempting white poors. Edited to add: and that makes some people mad because they desperately want a revolution in the lower class without having to deal with the racism issue. there wolf fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 07:11
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Sharkopath posted:I'm looking for some good news so besides the stuff that's only possibilities and still far in the future like bernie pushing Keith Ellison for the new DNC did anything good come from this drat election cycle. It was a good election for women on the down ballot, including black women! http://theslot.jezebel.com/here-are-some-women-you-should-know-who-made-history-on-1788764645 Including Kamala Harris who is now the second black woman to serve as a senator (also the first Indian person) and Ilhan Omar a Somali-American and former refugee who was elected to the Minnesota state house.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:37
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DrPaper, gently caress off. Don't use my posts as a shield for your tone policing bullshit.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:43
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:gently caress you know what you guys oughta watch some of those soapy black 90s dramedies, like The Wood and its much-belated sequel, Everyone's Wearing Christmas Sweaters and Has Cancer What about the romcoms like Waiting to Exhale or Love and Basket Ball? I seem to remember those getting heavy rotation after Soul Train on Saturday afternooons.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:06
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Necroskowitz posted:I keep seeing this comic making the rounds around the internet. While this is explicitly focused on Islamophobic bigotry it seems like it could be applied to anti-black harassment. negromancer posted:It's actually a twist of the #YouOkSis hashtag from black Twitter, to deal with male harassment of women in public spaces. Yeah, this is an old anti-harassment tactic women have tossed around for a long time. I've both done it, and been helped by it before; it can work, but it doesn't always. I think it's good to put out there as an alternative to direct confrontation. Not everyone is comfortable calling someone out to their face, and even if you are, sometimes that is not a safe thing to do.
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Nov 12, 2016 07:18
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negromancer posted:I've used it as well. I've seen women get harassed and went up to them like they were the younger sisters of "friends" and cut the harassment off at the head. Most of these men are cowards and when they see a man willing to cut in and stare them down breaks their fragile masculinity and they relent. They don't want to go heads up and get embarrassed twice. Ever had it go sour? When I was living as a woman I kind of just coasted on most men being conditioned against beating a woman in public, but now I'm a tiny gay dude and I worry that's not much of a deterrent in the "this woman is my property/in my sphere of protection, so step off" department.
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Nov 12, 2016 07:42
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FuturePastNow posted:So the only constructive posters are those who agree with you, got it. And for those people the very tangible threat to black people, muslims, other POC, the queer community, and women that Trump represented was not of enough concern to at least step up and try and prevent the known bad option from taking power. I'm sorry you didn't trust Hillary not to do whatever the current paranoia was, but "not openly racist and calling for purges" should have been enough to get you to do the right thing. This is on your head.
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Nov 12, 2016 22:39
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Monaghan posted:Racism is completely rational if you benefit from a racist system. Only you benefit more from a racist system than you would from a not racist one, and information about the cost/benefits of not being racist isn't exactly in wide supply.
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Nov 13, 2016 01:01
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I think it's came up in the old USPOL, but I'd like to know more about the black community's relationship with agnosticism/atheism if anyone wants to talk about that. I know movement atheism and the skeptic community are havens for racism as much as they are for misogyny, but on an individual basis what's the situation?
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Nov 13, 2016 22:58
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Morby posted:On the positive side, there is a national organization called Black Nonbelievers. They are putting out a documentary called "Exodus". I'll link the trailer here: That was pretty neat; I'll have to keep an eye out for Exodus when it comes out in full. Have you been involved with Black Nonbelievers and if so do you find it a more welcoming environment for women, gays, etc. compared to more mainstream atheist groups? Koalas March posted:Black Sunday Best clothes are the loving best. It's uniquely us and as far as I know one of the few things white people have not appropriated. yet. Is Black Sunday Best clothes a specific style? I'm thinking the hats specifically. Whenever there's an Ascot or Royal wedding and white people start fawning over the hats/fascinators I always roll my eyes because it's not like black women haven't been keeping the awesome hat game going every Sunday for decades now.
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Nov 14, 2016 00:35
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Koalas March posted:Check this out: http://megachurchsuits.com Megachurch suits.com  The shiny, power suits, of course! I always think of them as mother-of-the-bride wear, but general churchwear makes more sense.
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Nov 14, 2016 00:49
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Did anyone else learn about sickle cell in school as part of basic genetics? I guess our textbook writers thought it was more interesting than bean flowers and cleft chins. Actually a better question, is there any effort towards, or benefit to doing genetic screening for sickle cell on potential parents, similar to how some Jewish communities will screen for Tay-Sachs?
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Nov 16, 2016 11:20
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Art is good and important. Not least it shapes the majority's understanding of minorities. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to combat oppression. Yeah, but that's art. Art History is one of those subjects that is dull as dishwater to anyone without a knack for rote memorization because you need to know so many names and dates, and with even less of the story aspect you get with regular history.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:15
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Sorry about your lovely teachers? "Art History" is a go-to STEM punching bag like underwater basketweaving. It's only as boring as you make it. Our art history prof. was actually pretty great, but that didn't make the demands of the subject any less name-and-date focused. Maybe it gets better when you get out of the intro-level stuff, but I never got that far so I can't say. Edit: Also definitely not STEM kid, and every liberal arts class is a punching bag for a certain kind of STEM students because they're all pouty that their schools made them "waste time" on something not directly related to their degree. there wolf fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 23:36
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:How would you feel about someone who only took an intro-level science class and decided that science was boring and worthless. Well I'd probably think they don't have a big interest in science, and then I'd start to wonder if, considering that science is a very broad subject with lots of entry points, the person might have some kind of learning style or disability that made the class harder then it normally would be. You seem to think I am against art history as a subject as a matter of principle. So just to clear the air and get us both on the same page, I'm against pretending like it's just a matter of passion whether you're into a subject or not. Art history happens to be a personal example for me because I did a history major with a fine arts minor; I should have loved art history. But as a dyslexic, the heavy emphasis on names and numbers was an obstacle to my engagement with the class and the subject. That's probably me reading more into negromancers' brief scenario than was actually there, but it is what it is.
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Nov 17, 2016 00:23
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Control Volume posted:Im not letting these fuckers ruin my white dad shoes I don't know, man. Being able to easily spot and thus avoid scum by the Browning logos on their cars has been pretty useful.
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Nov 17, 2016 01:42
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VikingofRock posted:Here. But I think that by posting that I may have accidentally started the eternal "who exactly is to blame for the election loss" holy war in yet another thread, so I'm gonna go ahead and apologize for that and drop the topic. This thread is consistently really good and interesting, and I don't want to be the white guy who barged in and turned it into another USPOL. It's kind of funny how Negrotown has become a geography club, even if it's not all that fair.
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Nov 18, 2016 02:39
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negromancer posted:Yeah, black people aren't really present in online anime discussions. We discuss that among friends or in barbershops. I wan to go to anime discussion barbershop. All mine ever talk about it sports or how much Steve Harvey sucks.
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Nov 19, 2016 18:22
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Jonas Albrecht posted:Superman IV is gonna hold onto the title of "Worst Supers Film" for a long long time. Are we not considering The Spirit a superhero film? Might also be Samuel L. Jackson's worst.
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Nov 21, 2016 17:49
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And that's getting away from the thread topic at hand. I have an odd question. Do any of the black posters have an opinion on Vine shutting down? there wolf fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Nov 22, 2016 |
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Nov 22, 2016 00:08
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My exposure to vines was pretty limited and mostly through other platforms like tumbler, but the big compilations everyone is doing now that it's shutting down feature a lot of POC. Was there a connection between POC and Vines in particular, or a POC/black community within the community like black twitter?
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Nov 22, 2016 02:28
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm suggesting that I've mostly observed the phenomenon in white people, which is a product of the company I keep. I'd also argue that the ability to blindly consume media without regard to its meaning or context is a small part of white privilege, yes. I've observed in in non-white people, but I always just assumed it's a product of having brains hardwired for language/music and thinking about the content is a different function you have to deliberately engage. Also on a broad cultural level we do a poor job of teaching people critical thinking of anything, much less the stuff they consume for entertainment. But I find your theory about privileged have an effect on that to be an interesting one. Is the idea that living in a culture inherently hostile to you conditions you to be more perceptive/critical of everything because in a sense you are constantly on guard for harm?
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Nov 22, 2016 18:12
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Lightning Knight posted:As to privilege, I'm sure that, that notion, that underprivileged people of all kinds would pay more attention out of a justified suspicion, but I'd also argue that as somebody who is privileged, I for example could afford to just listen to songs by Beyonce and not look for any hidden meaning because if there was one I'm only going to appreciate it on an academic level. Her strong message on, say, black women should feel empowered and good by virtue of their black womanhood just isn't going to mean as much to me as, say, TB, because I have the privilege of not having to engage with that experience, ever, if I so choose. Whereas a black woman is constantly asked to engage and empathize with white culture, and would probably factor that in when evaluating a Sufjan Steven's song. That's a good point. It also probably factors into why you feel old people are more likely to just ignore obvious political stuff in music. They don't value/understand youth culture, or whatever culture produced the track so they prioritize their own pleasure at the tune or whatever and ignore any other elements. Didn't one of the members of The Smiths flat out tell Cameron he wasn't allowed to be a Smith's fan?
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Nov 22, 2016 18:40
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negromancer posted:Also, this is for the white people that frequently drive through Negrotown and enjoy our shops and clean streets: Where the one for "let me tell you what I'd do if I met one of those Black Lives Matter protestors in person..." So loving glad my folks aren't doing a big Thanksgiving this year.
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Nov 22, 2016 21:45
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negromancer posted:Yeah, a wooden wedge is what most AAA tow trucks will use, and that will absolutely gently caress up the paint on your door, by sheer force of friction. I think AAA, at least around where I am, has switched over to the pump balloon things. I haven't seen a wedge in years. Also do you have a reference for MLK being a gun owner? I'm trying to convince my dad MLK wasn't the great pacifist he thinks he was.
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Nov 25, 2016 14:33
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negromancer posted:This book tells the story about the armed resistance part of the civil rights movement. Thanks for the recommendation. But it may have gotten them to that 40% which means lawmakers could either gamble that increasingly violent actions wouldn't split the country or give in on civil rights confident that enough people would just be happy to see it all go away they wouldn't be too upset over how. So I guess my question is are you against non-violent action completely, or do you think people are to quick to give up on violence as an option?
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Nov 25, 2016 17:54
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negromancer posted:This was a fantastic read right here: Oh gently caress this. I'm getting real tired of think pieces about poor whites that point out poo poo I've known for years, but when it comes to offering some way to fix it they just throw up their hands. We get it; it's hard. But if you aren't going to offer some kind of plan of action for reaching these people then I'm going to keep calling them bitter hicks who prioritize their hate over their own well-being.
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Nov 27, 2016 18:48
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Rush Limbo posted:Pretty much. The left, or rather the white moderates in the left, refuse to acknowledge this. Someone should start some kind of discussion form examining the psyche and social conditions that produce the white moderate and brainstorming was to shift them out of their obstructive lifestyles.
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Nov 28, 2016 01:21
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blackguy32 posted:It's there because people can just easily ignore it until it comes election time and then after every defeat, white moderates go back and say that we need to appeal to "white working class" folks. White moderates are the right without the spite. It's why they sympathize so much with those poor rural people trapped in their racism and bigotry. "There but for the grace of a better education and social group, go I" They don't have the deep-seated hatred to drive them away from generally wanting equal treatment for everyone, but they're still just as selfish and afraid of change. So they become a critical mass of dead weight on progressivism because it's not like they want to hurt black people/gays/immigrants like the right does, but they don't want to see the world change in any substantial and unpredictable ways like those activist on the left either.
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Nov 28, 2016 03:07
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xthetenth posted:Honestly from dealing with white moderates I think it's because they don't want to acknowledge that there's problems because then that might be something they're complicit in, so it's easier if things are fine and those horrid people being unruly is some sort of overreaction. A lot of the time they treat frank discussion that there's still issues as an accusation that they're complicit in racism and that they didn't earn what they have and get all defensive against the actual facts, and when people protesting aren't perfectly behaved they bust out the hand wringing. My experience is that they are happy to acknowledge problems in vague, distant ways that defy any real connection, either through self-reflection of their own thoughts and behavior like you're talking about, or problem solving and direct action like I was talking about with the "dead weight on progressivism" line. I was reading an old post on persuasive argument a while back that kind of summed up the white moderate. It split arguments into three styles: soft- your basic agree to disagree, hard- the kind of direct call-out negromancer favors, and between them persuasive which is geared towards finding compromise. The idea in persuasive argument is that you show respect and consideration to the other party so they're open to you, and then use what they tell you as a guide for where to push to change their minds. White moderates will talk your ear off about the need for mutual respect and consideration, but they never seem to get around to the "and then you hit here, here, and here to weaken their conviction and open them up to yours." They don't want to change minds. They don't want to change anything, because right here they are safe, they are comfortable, and they are right. Change opens them up to losing that.
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Nov 28, 2016 06:55
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BrandorKP posted:Many of the first wave feminists reacted in the way you are reacting when the abolitionists decided to wait on women's sufferage. Elizabeth Cady Stanton is probably the best example. And then they turned around and did the same thing to black women fighting Jim Crow. Being an ally means being in a constant state of paying your dues. That's not something that comes naturally to people with privilege, who get authority and importance as a birthright but tell themselves it's the result of merit. In actual news, Dylan Roof was found competent to stand trial and will be representing himself. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dylann-roof-competent-stand-trial There was some talk that this case might put an end to the death penalty. I have no idea if that's at all true, but makes me wonder if and what the black community's opinion on the death penalty is considering how significant judicial issues are.
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Nov 28, 2016 18:56
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Morby posted:My mother is 100% opposed to the death penalty. I used to be for it in extreme cases, but all of the people put to death and then posthumously exonerated made me absolutely want it abolished. There was a case in GA not too long ago where people recanted their testimonies and there was enough evidence to cast reasonable doubt about the sentence that was handed down, but the dude was put to death anyway. Troy Davis or Brian Keith Terrell? Says something that there's more than one case in this state that that could apply to.
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Nov 28, 2016 21:27
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VikingofRock posted:On the topic of slavery, can anyone recommend any good resources on the difference between chattel slavery in the USA and slavery before that? Every now and then I'll run into a person who claims that there was nothing uniquely terrible about US slavery (because the Romans had slaves!) and I'd like a resource to point them to to get educated. The correct response to "US slavery wasn't so bad because other people had slaves" is an incredulous look and "and you think that makes it o.k?"
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Nov 29, 2016 19:59
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