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KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Carlosologist posted:

I actually found the source, this is obviously just some guy but I think the logic is solid. the guaranteed overtime is probably a non-starter among companies, and this plan requires a revitalization of the unions, to which, lol

https://twitter.com/JoeR42/status/798179935676313600

I love this sort of techno-utopian thinking. Like, the solution to a growing productivity and wage gap, rising inequality, and slackening demand is to hope technology will rescue us and usher in a post-scarcity future? Get real. Obviously it'd be a great thing for people to work less overall, but let's talk about properly compensating them for the work they do first.

What's that? Empower unions?! Redistribute wealth? Let's try to stay realistic here!

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KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


It's wishful thinking on the part of Dems to think that "Drain the Swamp" meant anything but cracking down on Pesky Bureaucrats, liberal lobbyists, and Democrats.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Crowsbeak posted:

Because when he doesn't do that poo poo and crashes the economy we can pretend we offered to help.

But the Dems are loving horrible at optics. Trump will blame Yellen and the Fed, the Chinese, and Democrats for not implementing his tremendous plans. He'll probably get away with it too.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


blamegame posted:

Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA

Racism probably put him over the edge, but it's hard imagine a counterfactual where the upper working class/lower-middle class turn out for Trump even as their incomes, health, job security, etc. rise. Part of it is definitely due to a lost sense of status, with all the racial implications.

Trump's victory is basically the Romney vote + increased rural turnout + the activation of the disaffected lakeshore working class + relatively poor turnout for Clinton in key states. The thing I've really see no one talk about is how Romney men and women (often college educated!) still turned out for Trump.

It's a loving shaky coalition.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Obama's gradual incrementalism and naive "let's all get along, folks" doomed the Democratic party. The Dems had their boots on the neck of the Republican party and they let them off the drat hook. It'll take another 10 or 15 years, but the next generation of historians are going to shred whatever is left of his legacy after Trump gets through with it.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Main Paineframe posted:

The Trump team is floating Palin to run the VA :ohdear:


In other words, it's the same as the jobs thing - people would rather vote for an obvious liar who tells them what they want to hear than an honest person who tells the hard truths.


No, what gave him an edge among swing voters was that he was in the opposition, running against an incumbent who had failed for eight years to restore stable economic prosperity. It's the exact same problem McCain had - his party had held the presidency for two terms and made an absolute mess out of it, so people were deeply suspicious of any attempt to convince them that things would improve in the third term of a Republican White House. That gave Obama a huge credibility advantage, which he exploited quite well with a combination of blatant lies and vague sweeping claims that people could project their own desires onto - much as Trump did when faced with the same situation after eight years of a tumultuous Democratic administration.

Saying that 2016 was a more anti-establishment year than 2011, when a national anti-establishment protest movement was literally matching in the streets all over the country, or 2008, when the establishment was thought to have literally destroyed the entire global economy and an anti-establishment candidate won by ten million votes, is just plain stupid.

The only reason this year is heralded as an "anti-establishment" year is because the barbarians have already battered down the gates, and no one was watching. The Radical Center has fallen. Elites didn't see it coming because Business As Usual was restored in their eyes. Now they're scrambling for answers and it is too late.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


comingafteryouall posted:

The sentiments from OWS didn't just disappear and have not had an outlet.

As evidenced by Bernie Sanders being able to legitimately challenge Clinton.

And Donald Trump beating Clinton.

Of course it didn't actually disappear; the establishment/elite/the media just thought it did.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Crowsbeak posted:

Hmmm. Free college. Medicare for all. Glass stegall 2 punish the financial elite. No more wars in the Middle East. Make VA work for our veterans.

Those things are all good, but the problems are:

1) Dems inevitably water down, means-test, or otherwise make things very hard for the average person to care about, understand, or support

2) bad messaging, not for lack of ideas but because they are afraid of offending Silicon Valley/Wall Street/Business services/Insurance industry/Big Law by straight up adopting a platform that reflects the truth: the current system is rigged against you, rich people have every benefit, hard work won't necessarily pay off, and to remedy all of these things government is here to protect you from the vagaries of capitalism.

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KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


Obama is a giant pussy

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