KiteAuraan posted:

present a unified populist vision to people moving forward. highlight that it is the forces of global capitalism that have failed them, that the jobs they want, high paying manufacturing jobs, are never coming back, that unless they accept a hellfucked environment and $1.00 a day wages they will never have a textile factory in south carolina again. highlight how Trump is a loving liar, how he promised them something he can't deliver, how he is NOT their voice, he just lies to them for power and prestige. hammer hard on how he and the republicans are failing them. use the mass support for minimum wage increases (an increase to $12 an hour passed in loving arizona, goddamn) to highlight how the republicans want to take that away from them, and they'll have to fight with vote and union to stop them. show them that Trump is the very jetsetting global elite that is loving them and that it is not the workers of the developing world who are ruining them, those are just poor souls even more hosed by the elite than they. give them data and info in a digestible form about the Koch brothers, the capitalists, the bankers and multinational global elites, who live in the united states, but are not their saviors or their allies. tell them that coal is dead globally, the price is never going to rise, that you may have work but it will be for below-poverty wages with little to no safety. offer them hope from that in government programs to retrain, and if they can't retrain, a GMI to let them live comfortably. sell it as coming from higher taxes on the us-based global capitalist that is ruining them. do that and you'll get back the people who split for Trump, you'll wide the wave and gently caress it, you will goddamn try.

also, if they trot out protectionism, point to how protectionist loving Japan is, and how they've been hellfucked for decades now, with no end in sight.

basically the democratic party is loving doomed because they will not do this.

KiteAuraan posted:

basically i hold that retraining for those who can, fully subsidized in new industries, combined with BIG TIME incentives to move emerging business to these regions, combined with MASSSIVE infrastructure spending, and failing that, a GMI for these people, so they can live in comfort, above the poverty level, while the small town rural world just sort of slowly dies.

Timeless Appeal posted:

The trend of people going "It's not that America's racist, it's that she failed to court midwestern voters" is dumb. Yes, obviously in hindsight she should have done that. What people are ignoring is that it's Trump. It's a man who a month ago the sheer notion of becoming president was thought as impossible with numerous sexual assault claims. A person who called for banning the immigration of Muslim Americans. A person who openly mocked a disabled reporter. A person who showed profound ignorance every time he stepped on a debate stage.

Do you remember how the 47% tape or Dukakis in the tank or Dean's yell are remembered for helping tank their campaigns?

The shock is around the fact that none of that poo poo mattered whatsoever. The shock is around that Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio would have probably done just as well.

And like there are a dozen things you can nitpick about. If those campaign tanking moments actually were campaign tanking moments or the fact that the worst of the Trump presidency is probably going to be based on him being a Republican more than anything else or if people should've known better about who the people in our country are.

But people are shocked because they assumed that people would rise to the occasion or at least not vote for that guy. And that's not what happened. They voted for a guy openly hostile to women and people of color and Muslims and who was more than willing to destroy the premise of peaceful transfer of power if he didn't get his way and may very really pursue trying to jail his opponent. And going "WELL ACTUALLY..." and simply talking about Hilary's failure to assume almost every single poll that showed her strategy was working was wrong doesn't make you some amazing realist. It makes you a dummy who's failing to understand why actual real human beings are upset.

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

Right on, but where is this condescention coming from? The media?

rum sodomy Rainbow Dash posted:

We talk about rural whites, but what about the other side? I heard minority turnout was not as good, and some are blaming this on suppression (first potus election since the Voting Rights Act case) or Clinton just being a poo poo candidate.

Turnout in cities was also lower, sometimes by as much as 100,000 votes if I'm hearing things correctly. We can say rural whites killed her, but that's not the only part of the equation. I guess the good news is that their desires aren't mutually exclusive. You can show rural whites you're listening without alienating everyone else.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

All the "mistakes" Bernie made were only considered mistakes because of the idiotic Neoliberal consensus, which couldn't countenance an insurgent politics after they had replaced oxygen with their own farts. It's clear now why liberals were always harping on about why platforms and policies don't matter, because they never loving cared about it themselves. They treated politics like a loving game, but it's always blood & guts. Now hundreds of thousands of people are going to die needlessly because of that institutional hubris and ideological failure.

Fast Luck posted:

Why is Donna Brazile addressing staff instead of immediately resigning as interim leader

Fast Luck posted:

These are the counties that flipped from Obama to Trump:


Seems to be concentrated on the rust belt and midwest where people are mad about being out of work and factories being closed etc. Western PA is pretty extreme

quote:

The media have made much ado about the absence of a real Trump organization on the ground in the states, but has largely failed to interrogate the hype around the Clinton campaign’s ground operations. As the post-election day hangover wears off, an examination of the mechanics behind the Clinton’s get out the vote efforts ― reaching out to Clinton voters in key states at the door, on the phone or by text messages ― reveals evidence of what appears to be a pretty shocking truth. Clinton volunteers were inadvertently turning out Trump voters. Possibly in significant numbers.

Volunteers for the Clinton campaign in Pennsylvania, Ohio and North Carolina have reported that when reminding people to vote, they encountered a significant number of Trump voters. Anecdotal evidence points to anywhere from five to 25 percent of contacts were inadvertently targeted to Trump supporters.

...

Voter targeting is not a new idea, but over the past few cycles electoral field organizing has become intoxicated by the concept of using “big data” to microtarget voters. Just like Amazon knows what to show you on their front page based on your past purchases, the idea goes, campaigns should be able to predict who their voters are based on past voting behavior and other commercially available data that can be matched on the vote file. In the avalanche of stories and books about Obama’s two victories, commentators have credited microtargeting as a major factor in his success ― in our opinion, mostly unjustifiably.

The problem is the lack of actual data. General election voting choices are of course secret. Only a relatively small number of primary voters’ partisan choices are public record, and not in all states. The much-hyped commercial data, upon closer examination, is either not useful or simply not available for most voters. Most targeting choices are not micro, but macro, such as targeting African Americans or young people. When you’re winning by a large margin, as Obama did both times, you can’t go wrong with such choices. When you’re losing, however, certain macro-targeting choices amount to doing your opponent’s GOTV work for them.

Al! posted:

Venom Snake posted:

Their kids want to go to a far away college and do what they want with their lives. We need to take care of the parents and the kids. The answer to "I want to live my life how I want it" is not "have a job in your home town, good luck". We can do lots of things at once I think.

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

"I'm gonna drop a factory right into the middle of this town, and we're gonna make the fuckers who sold you out pay for it!" is going to win you votes, dude.

Padams posted:

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
Article goes on and on saying "liberals are too smug!" but it proved prescient. The democratic party has abandoned the working class. We dismiss Trump voters as worthless racist hicks. "If we only make sure people know the facts we'll DEFINITELY win this time!" poo poo doesn't matter. Emotional appeals always "trump" (shoot me now) rational appeals.

Pick posted:

The mantra has long been, essentially, "learn to code or die" as if programming hasn't hit its own problems already.

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

"I'm gonna drop a factory right into the middle of this town, and we're gonna make the fuckers who sold you out pay for it!" is going to win you votes, dude.

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

We would have Killer "antivax" Mike ads instead of Lena Dunham. Which I'll admit is probably a marginal improvement

zeal posted:

Jesus Christ SHUT THE gently caress UP HILL SHILL

your sole use as a human being these days is as a funnel of intelligence from your fellow wastes of skin

no one needs to hear your opinions on anything ever again

zeal posted:

good


he has not, and until he does he should be treated like the scum he is

Willie Tomg posted:

i will never write these words again in my entire life, but dear god do i mean every letter right now: I REALLY WANT TO SEE FISHMECH POST AGAIN

Willie Tomg posted:

oh sweet, a Pretty Okay dude might be helming a shipwreck now that the rats have fled it for six figure consulting gigs. nobody gives a hot gay gently caress. the democrats will not "move past" this problem until actually-progressive people with acutally-progressive opinions meaningfully control a single aspect of government.

anime was right posted:

lol if you dont think she's going to try and push her daughter as first female pres as hard as she possibly can so she can feel like she accomplished her goal in life, no matter what it costs this country.

MJ12 posted:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/clintons-popular-vote-lead-will-grow-and-grow/507455/

This article is interesting because it's actually a good bridge if you're trying to convince centrist liberals to support more progressive policy. Clinton did, in fact, mobilize a pretty significant number of Democratic voters. In fact, her turnout might be within striking distance of Obama '12, which is pretty impressive since Obama had all of Clinton's brilliance, none of her baggage, and a lot of charisma. But middle America wasn't part of that coalition. They were left out, and they voted for Trump instead because they were desperate, because they were tired, and because, yes, some of them were racists who'd normally have sat it out, but we don't need or want #3. Democrats and millenials didn't fail Clinton, unless by that you mean you want to organize a million Democrats to move to the Rust Belt.

Clinton didn't fail to inspire the people she was talking to and the people whose issues she was speaking of addressing. She just, like so many people before her, failed to address the issues of a group which was hurting and desperate and looking with nostalgia in better times, and Trump tapped into that vein of dissatisfaction. The one thing Trump said that resonates with me right now is this. "What the hell have you got to lose?" I think, more than "Make America Great Again," that's what Trump's campaign was based on, and why it won. We let these guys rot so long they figured they had nothing to lose. And we hosed up. We took them for granted and we hosed up.

Thinking of it, I think the whole "Clinton was a Bad Candidate with a Bad Campaign (TM)" message is somewhat counterproductive no matter how true it is because it implies that if Clinton had been more charismatic (like Corey Booker) and her campaign had tweaked its algorithms better, they'd have won handily. Which is:

1. Probably true;
2. Justifies centrists going "we can do the same thing in 2020 and win."
3. Is probably going to make people who supported Clinton less inclined to listen (see #2).

And I get that lots of you guys got shat on by Clinton supporters and schadenfreude is fun and good but you're gonna need to convince the centrists to shut up and vote for your candidate too at some point. I agree with about 90% of what's said in this thread. I agree that there are systemic issues with the Democratic party as it is. But I think that these issues are systemic-and it's not just about Clinton.

Fidel Castronaut posted:

Fishmech was one guy who nobody liked. Tatum Girlpants, A Winner is Jew, Zoux, Deteriorata, and pals ran the democratic primary thread and jerked each other off by ganging up on people who liked Bernie, continuously straw manning the worst of Bernie supporters so that they never had to address reasonable criticisms of Hillary. They were by far the worse posters.

Some of them, like A Winner is Jew, have posted about the error of their ways but let's not bullshit about how the conversation went here.

frankenfreak posted:

booker / stevie ray

Swan Oat posted:

https://twitter.com/jakebackpack/status/797817209187864576

this is a good thread to read, about the differences between the democratic and republican parties as organizations, and why democrats keep getting owned (sorry i dont know how to embed tweets)

e: or here is the whole thing without numbering

tower time posted:

Also as long as anyone wants to talk worst CSPAM poster through this election, what about Whiskeyjuvenile and "$250,000 a year is middle class"

temple posted:

That is deeply cynical and ignores the liberal progress of the 20th century. Liberals won the culture war and would be far more progressive if left unchecked. Republicans fight so hard because they have something to win. Liberals are simply maintaining the social inertia already in place. Due to capitalism, I can't think of an area of life that isn't affected by grifters or charlatans. Being a democrat is trying to convince 40% of Americans to work with the other 60%. Republicans are simply destroying progress, which is massively easier to plan and implement.