- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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hillary clinton was a greek tragedy waiting to happen.
i think she is a talented, intelligent person. i think she is (or was) very, very ambitious. i think hillary clinton is a one in a million kind of person. she managed to avoid actual scandal and survive dozens of fake ones slung at her every day.
but the republican machine worked. they dragged her through the mud for 20 years, and she thought, i'm doing it anyway, gently caress it. and i think every person on the planet should applaud her. she worked the washington game better than almost any other person in history. she tamed a thousand-headed hydra and was able to unleash it onto the world. but i think she played the game too hard in a couple of aspects:
first, in her attempt to rightfully avoid scandals with a private email server. gently caress what y'all say, i genuinely think she used the drat thing so a republican didn't huff over very typo she sent in internet greeting cards after the clinton administration. she had her own best interests in mind and i don't think she had any intention of loving anyone over with the drat thing. look at what they put her through and go "yes, i want these people reading every word, ever letter, every bit of data i send". but when the email server was discovered, i think this is where the divide really comes in. the republicans flung so much mud at her, that her secrecy and double-speak like a true old-school politican became her downfall. there was now an item, a tangibility to her secrecy. this was part one of "hillary clinton is the corrupt democratic machine". if i recall the server was discovered because of benghazi of all loving things. benghazi undermined her ability to avoid being benghazied.
i dont think people care about her emails. i think the emails remind everyone that hillary clinton was rightfully trying to hide poo poo, but there was an image drawn of her trying to do this already as a negative. it fit. the narrative stuck. the word emails makes people think she's hiding something. she was a snake-tongued washington crook in the eyes of many.
second, wall street.
after citizens united (and many other landmark cases), and after the deregulation of wall st, taking in big bucks matters to get elected. this is the perceived washington game. she had to take in millions upon millions of dollars to compete. this was how things were supposed to be done, thought everyone. after all, money wins small elections and always has. money buys you ads. money gets you people to upvote and downvote poo poo on reddit for fucks sake. money is the answer. more money, more control of the media. you get more ads, more ground game, more everything. more money makes for a better campaign because it affords you more opportunities than anyone else. the fact is, she gave into the dark side here and took bribes from wall st because they were going to fund her campaign. they wanted to buy her and make her enact pro bank policies. she went with 'hate the game not the player' because how the gently caress else are you going to win a presidential goddamn election? we have not had many campaigns of this scale, so this seemed like the obvious answer.
but wall street collapsed the economy. her allies caused the collapse. i think most idiots know that (not the super crazy ones, but the ones that lost her the election here). she allied with the enemy and she was corrupt. again, strike 2 for washington.
and i do think bernie sanders exposed this. if this was politics as usual and she had no opponent, tbh, i think she would have seen more scandals being flung at her, but she wouldn't have had such an air of corruption. i do not think this cost her the election, but i think it gave her another handicap to overcome.
third, more obama.
obama loving rules. hes a great dude. real charmer. good with the kids. obama is a one in a billion person. i hesitate to say this, but obama was a loving fluke. he had empty campaign promises and no baggage so everyone could project onto him. he motivated millenials because he was cool. he motivated independents because the republicans were in charge and all the jobs went away. but obama, somehow evaded being strongly tied to wall street. probably because he didn't line his pockets with speech money, i guess. but he had his turn, and white people in the boonies are still hosed. all the job growth went to cities because corporations are too large and so theres no way for local branches to just prop up and compete on the national or global market. small business are stifled and could not create jobs because obama let big corporations run the show.
and this is where the branch breaks for that 10-20% of white people that threw the brick in the window.
washington didnt fix their probems after all the hope-y change-y. hillary wanted to not only do business as usual, but she had the baggage obama didn't with big money and washington corruption. she wanted to break the glass ceiling, and white dudes, instead, wanted to drop the brick through it from above.
she tried to win, but look at all of that. barely any of it was her fault (at least to her team), imo. when you look at this from an omnisesent poitn of view, of course that wouldn't work out. but look at it through her eyes. she made the right calls.
but there were two more flaws, and they were 100% her fault and even with all of that above, she could have salvaged the election.
1) her campaign had no clear idea or voice, and her previous theme harmed her.
"im with her" is a terrible slogan. not because its bad to be with her. nah, she's a pretty alright person with a couple things i dont like attached to her ticket. but it alienated all of the white dudes who got called sexist and they probably were, but they probably tried to improve and weren't total monsters. she made it more about being a woman than being a good politician at first, and this made for a wishy-washy message that went into later stages of the general.
"stronger together" is a loving weak slogan. i see no goal. i see no idea for the future other than social policy. how does this help a white dude? here, let me look at the last two winning slogans.
"yes we can", yes we can what? who gives a poo poo. yes we can ride unicorns. you can project what this means for you. its forward leaning and says something you want will happen, even if that thing is rainbows and elves.
"forward" again, forward to what direction? towards whatever the gently caress i want! its goal oriented. it tells me something good is coming.
hillarys slogans, and overal campaign theme, sold me no good feelings that i could make up for myself.
"make america great again" this is powered entirely by nostalgia, but gently caress, it works. nostalgia is a filter and you can make up whatever good feelings it brings you. remember when you played sonic the hedgehog after school? yeah, we're back to geneis sonic the hedgehog games or whatever. who gives a poo poo. people are morons and they want to feel good about made up things that won't come to them. we want something and we don't know what that is but you better promise us the thing we goddamn want.
hillary did not sell us anything we wanted. she sold us...... not donald j trump, who was selling a shitload of white people: a brick, nostalgia, and racism. and it had just enough support to loving win.
2) she is not charismatic. she is a wonk. she has a fake laugh and a faker smile. obama can pull this off so well, trump, despite being a buffoon, is a chaotic ball of orange digits and lip-like crevices all forming odd shapes, but they're his loving shapes. hillary is a baddass grandma and she tried to be the cool and collected ubermensch and could not pull it off. now, there's argument here to be made, if she really was genuine, or if her attempts to appear like this were to thread the needle of being a woman? gently caress if i know, but she was not herself. she was not her own person. she was a robot like romney, uncomfortable in her own skin and hell, the republicans probably did that to her. its super unfair that she can't yell like bernie, it's super unfair that she can't make self-depreciating jokes, or like a zillion other things. but she did not appear like a genuine person and that harmed the hell out of her. imo she could have gotten better acting lessons or something, but she didnt pull this off at all. obama was charismatic and fun and even if i disagree with him on a million things, he can tell a loving joke better than any other politician on the planet and thats part of why people voted for him. trump is a buffoon, but he is his own special kind of buffoon and people ate it up.
3) i had no idea what she wanted to do. seriously! what the gently caress! donald trump wanted to build a wall. he wanted to export mexicans and import nothing because gently caress global trade. he wanted to give japan nukes or something. poo poo, he has ten thousand policy positions that are concise and soundbyte-y. because he said literally everything ever, that gave people room to project their own policies onto him too. like, jfc. anyway, the point is, i can say like ten things off the top of my head that donald trump would do. hillary clinton would make college less not bad. thats about all i can think of that she can offer. obama offered "no politics as usual/unifted washington" "close guantanamo" and he promised every person in the country a 500 dollar check because the economy loving bombed.
hillary ran a wishy-washy campaign with zero energy and rand on pragmatism and more of the same and suffered for it. she needed a clear vision and a few bombshell promises. she tried to play it cool and it blew up in her hands because people may not want lies, but they want an extension of the truth. hillary promised them the truth at absolute best. and that is a bad marketing strategy. oversell and then when you don't deliver, say you delivered anyway. people are goddamn idiots and marketing works.
so my takeaway is: hillary clinton made some contextually correct choices, and ran a bad campaign as a reasonabley bland candidate. that is why she lost. she is not a bad person. she is super loving talented, but i will tell you a secret:
she would have probably been a great president, but she is bombed the goddamn interview when asked about gasp on her resume. all while donald trump lied in big flashy bulletpoints.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:18
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May 7, 2024 12:06
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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The only democratic revival that would be worth anything would be one that rekindles class consciousness.
On another note, why didn't she control outlets that were making GBS threads all over Sanders supporters or at least tell them they weren't helping? Did she think that letting them run the Bernie Bros meme would kill that movement faster while not saying anything herself would protect her from backlash? Or did she genuinely not have any control?
good old fashioned left wing infighting. im guilty of that to some extent, but my ire was focused on pissing on the ~10% of bernie-or-busters, but realising that it depress the 30% that was sorta-kinda pro-clinton but ended not having the energy to vote
because i assumed they would loving vote jfc
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Nov 10, 2016 03:25
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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The rust belt was just as lovely economically in 2012. Republicans put up someone who came off like everyone's rear end in a top hat boss, sang his praises about what a skilled technocrat he was, and told people to hold their nose and vote for him.
They swung a great big miss on Romney, then the DNC looked at that and said "hmmm yes good plan let's do that in four years."
and instead they voted for the sleazy boss that tells you, if you sell out your solidarity to fellow members of the working class, i can make you rich
someone post that political cartoon of the boss going to a bunch of workers of different races telling them they work harder than others
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Nov 10, 2016 05:55
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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let us make accelerationist orangeade from these oranges. all indications are that trump will be an unmitigated disaster, and we're getting bush era trickle down economics. trump will welch on the working class like he always does. he cant help it
now is a good time to start organising for 2018. i dont see why you should accept that it'll be another landslide like 2010 and 2014, why not like 2006?
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Nov 10, 2016 05:58
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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If Democrats are going to swing hard to the left, then they may want to consider courting Rocky Anderson as a 2020 nominee.
He was a highly accomplished attorney, and as Democratic mayor of Salt Lake City he championed multiple progressive causes, including restorative justice and an end to the war on drugs.
When he ran for president on the Justice Party ticket in 2012 they had an extremely dope platform which was pro-campaign finance reform, financial transaction taxes, green jobs, wanted to strengthen the EPA, expand Social Security, end wars of aggression, repeal the PATRIOT Act, and so on. The guy was Bernie before the general public could conceive of one, only nobody knew about him because he ran as a third party.
He'll also be 69 (nice) in 2020.
I know it's a longshot, but I'm trying to spitball options for the future here.
i like the cut of ur jib
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Nov 10, 2016 06:05
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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I got props to venom snake because he worked harder than use useless morons
besides, analyse processes, not results
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Nov 10, 2016 07:28
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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I think its a safe bet that trump will betray his base, the question is how to force the issue and make him pay for it
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Nov 10, 2016 07:48
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Here's an outstanding question I have:
Why the gently caress did Hillary pick Tim Kaine? Sure, I get that he's a nice guy and all that but he's not super enthusiasm-creating. Why did she not pick Sanders or loving SOMEONE that would have appealed to the Bernie people? Tim Kaine was the most "well, more of me!" choice there possibly could have been. I just do not understand it.
Thanks for this thread. It is beyond fascinating.
the logic was that warren or sanders could still contribute their vote to the senate, they were better suited to working in the senate, and vice presidents dont usually do much (unlike our real next president, mike pence!)
plus a governor-turned-VP could be used to swing a 50/50 senate. clinton was playing for the long game, for actually getting into office. remember, by all metrics except turnout, clinton was ahead, so the goal was to get as many EVs as possible, get a mandate, pass legislation. it just turned out to be loving worthless when clinton got wiped out in round 1
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Nov 10, 2016 12:29
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Because the polling at the time showed it was unnecessary and in fact stupid to turn a senator (ie one of the most powerful positions in Washington) into a Vice President (ie one of the least powerful positions). It was the correct decision, especially as Bernie was out there anyway campaigning for Clinton. Any additional "unifying" by making him the VP pick would have been marginal.
A lot that went wrong in this election can be blamed on terrible polls.
this
holy poo poo, this was the right decision
clinton made all the right tactical moves, but totally hosed up the strategy
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Nov 10, 2016 12:37
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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dunno, obama was pretty consistently ahead, and palin turned out to be a strategic mistake from pretty early on
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Nov 10, 2016 12:44
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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what was a serious strategic mistake was trying to flip AZ and a bunch of other red state shitholes, based on polls, instead of playing defence
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Nov 10, 2016 12:44
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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one thing on my mind - is there like a correction factor in polling for This Person Might Be loving Lying On Purpose?
Might it be going forward? or is that just rolled into margin of error
lots of 'the polls were bad the polls were bad' and i'm just wondering how. how did they gently caress up numbers that badly without there being -- and i suspect this was the case -- an organized polling deception effort? any insight onto that would be a+
honestly, its hard to say. i know you posted something about a facebook meme about lying to the pollsters being passed around, but really, what was the penetration of that meme in the communities of interest? a few hundred? a few thousand? a few tens of thousand, in a population of a hundreds of thousands to millions? and what were the odds that a polling hit would land on someone actively deceiving the polls (remember, there are lots of other questions in a poll)
i suspect a more likely answer is the people who answered they'd vote trump voted trump, the people who answered they'd vote hillary a few weeks before election day ended up staying at home
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Nov 10, 2016 12:50
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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too bad that trump doesnt actually give a gently caress about them either, else he would have paid his contractors
oh yeah, i just remembered, trump's gonna end net neutrality. now your rare pepes will load 10 times slower
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Nov 10, 2016 13:29
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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I remember asking this question a long, long time ago. Hillary 08 bungled by hiring on lots of sycophants and cronies and yes-men. I wonder if her management skills had improved since then. I was told something to the effect that time changes someone.
Oops.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:40
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Then maybe people should stop supporting democrats and the system that perpetuates this vicious cycle
ah yes, its time to tell all 60 million people who did vote democrat to not vote democrat next election
or vote at all
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Nov 11, 2016 10:54
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Same. There's some in the Union community who are like "let's encourage the GOP/conservatives to push for a full out repeal of the NLRA/Taft Hartley and just have one last, wild west labor fight.
It would either work spectacularly or it would be the nail in the coffin for the American labor movement.
I'm inclined to think it will work extremely well. Trump has weak legitimacy and popular support, and it would do well to wedge him against either his swing voters or his standard republican line.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:15
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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but what the gently caress do i know i assumed that you could wedge trump from his neocon base, and look who came knocking back?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:16
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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I'm not familiar with a talking point about clinton going to nuclear war... i was exaggerating and it looks like it didn't appear that way. My poorly delivered point was that clinton would have done nothing for the kurds.
there was a line, pushed by the alt right and kremlin trolls, that clinton = war with russia
which was pretty loving stupid because the world survived the cold war and that was with even less diplomatic contacts. im more worried about trump deciding to nuke a middle eastern country
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Nov 12, 2016 06:04
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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You are part of the problem.
check post history and sex vid
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Nov 12, 2016 13:41
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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You definitely did. The optics ghost was not safe for Bernie.
i think it was mostly fine for bernie, only people who are deep into being pieces of poo poo would psyche themselves up with those photoshops of bernie bowing in the back of an interracial porn shoot
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Nov 12, 2016 13:43
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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he doesn't need 8 years my man. run in 2020 with a young progressive like gabbard as vp in case he eats it during office, if he makes it the whole term he retires after one term and hands the reigns to someone like him but younger.
trump will be 75 in 2020 and already looks more unhealthy than sanders now so i don't even think the age thing would matter in the eyes of voters.
sanders is spry as hell. the man has a good decade left in him
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Nov 12, 2016 23:56
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP_J6gmJYiU
think trump can do this lol?
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Nov 12, 2016 23:58
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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venom snake get over there and knock some heads together
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Nov 13, 2016 00:37
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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having alot of Care for lena duhnam is like a loving shibboleth
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Nov 16, 2016 04:48
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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the moral of the story is that having a strong message matters, though the details and nature of the message may depend. calling urself a socialist might be a tad tricky outside the maine state legislature
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Nov 16, 2016 13:44
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Hell, for all intents and purposes Hillary was doing what Obama did. Improving on all his policies and saying that they would continue the successes of the last 8 years.
How do you run on "everything needs to be burned down and changed" when your party has been in the white house for 8 years?
what she should have done is: obama did a good job, but it was not enough. many of obama's promises were sabotaged by an obstructionist GOP-controlled congress, and they have been using this position and power to roll back your voting and labor and civil rights in the states, while enriching themselves. a vote for trump is a vote for tax breaks for the billionaires and expansion of their power over the middle and working class. vote for me and vote for my fellow congresspeople and we will hold the 1% accountable and improve your lives
but no she hosed up and completely failed to turn out the base and all those nice polite suburbans came home to the screaming racist kleptocrat
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Nov 21, 2016 04:47
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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its okay to blame the general billionaire class even if there is the occasional Good One who pays their loving taxes and doesnt use their money to erode worker's rights
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Nov 21, 2016 04:53
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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oh look, the right is now trying to ratfuck keith ellison out of dnc chair
honestly i dont give a gently caress if he was associated with the nation of islam clowns, they haven't been relevant for decades, let the right play identity politics and let ellison keep bringing things back to economic policy
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Nov 22, 2016 07:43
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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he has briefly associated with them in the past, kinda supported them when he was in college, and denounced them afterwards as anti-semitic
its a standard false equivalency bullshit being peddled between bannon and ellison, just as what happened with trump and clinton
at this point i dont give a gently caress about false equivalencies anymore, they're going to find one anyway, just find a good message, let that poo poo bounce off and find a message that really hurts these fuckers
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Nov 22, 2016 07:53
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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peter thiel is going to die of a previously undiscovered blood-borne infection lmao
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Nov 22, 2016 16:42
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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One of the things that doesn't get brought up much is that the Democratic constituency (or at least, what I understand as the constituency) makes no loving sense at all.
We have a party that includes: white collar upper class professionals, university students, all manner of leftists, single issue social voters, (at least a handful of) billionaires, the poor (???), and all manner of more left leaning minorities.
Like, look at that. How the gently caress does a party whose constituency includes people making $150k+ a year, people who are completely radicalized and ready for socialism, and people who make less than $15k a year and are reliant on welfare make any sense at all?
Going forward, people need to take a long hard look at who the party should actually represent.
yes
of course you can do that
it's must that the center of power has to shift back to the working classes, the wealthier members of the constituency need to be aware of the benefits of increasing wealth and civil rights to the working class (increased social stability, decreased crime, an expanded market for goods and services)
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Nov 23, 2016 00:59
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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i think working in the swing states is gonna be the most important, cali and ny should not be priorities
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Nov 23, 2016 01:17
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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jib!
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Nov 27, 2016 14:31
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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the exclamation mark connotates excited dancing
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Nov 27, 2016 14:31
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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Hillary is a bad campaigner who would have made a terrific president. To be fair, she got more votes than any white man in US history. She merely lost by thin margins in the wrong states.
I love her, she's a really great person and a terrific stateswoman, but I really hope she doesn't run again. I doubt she will; you can tell she hates campaigning and she'll be too old anyway.
For historical precedent, note that no losing Democratic nominee has run in the next presidential primary for decades, since Humphrey in '72:
Kerry didn't run in '08, Gore didn't run in 04, Dukakis didn't run in '92, Mondale didn't run in '88, Carter didn't run in '84, McGovern didn't run in '76. Hillary will not run in 2020.
at this point i have zero faith that a president hillary clinton would have been a good president, too many technocratic yes-people and too arrogant to sanity check their bad data
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Nov 29, 2016 08:14
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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odd observation: i dont think trump has made a single comment about crazy bernie since the election. am i mistaken?
could he be scared?
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Nov 29, 2016 08:30
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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i mean it would still have been preferable to this
yeh but it would have delayed the fracture of the democrat coalition by 4 years or so before a younger, smarter fascist gets into office. sure we'd have gotten a few more supreme court seats but considering how badly clinton hosed up the downballot, we would have lost the house and lost even more in 2018. at least the gop coalition is fragile
or trump could simply implement full fascism now in february i guess
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Nov 29, 2016 08:44
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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the cuck shalt not meet the eyes of the bull
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Nov 29, 2016 08:44
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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I came across this recently, and it resonated so I thought I'd share:
though its pointless to ram a car into a university and start stabbing randomly
it would be more productive to ram a truckbomb into a gay conversion therapy camp and breaking out the inmates
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Nov 29, 2016 09:03
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May 7, 2024 12:06
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- Phobophilia
- Apr 26, 2008
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by Hand Knit
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i like oat esp in winter, add a dash of honey or dried fruits for flavor
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Dec 1, 2016 04:30
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Nov 10, 2016 03:18
