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Fullhouse posted:turns out when your entire campaign is actually explaining how bad the other person is instead of giving anyone a reason to vote for you instead, lots of people just won't vote i, a person knee loving deep in politics, could not articulate in three bullet points why hillary clinton wanted to run for president other than she wanted to run for president more obama, maybe her messaging was trash. i dont think she was as bad of a candidate people think, but her campaign, overall, was not good.
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Nov 10, 2016 01:22
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Oh Snapple! posted:Do you think Democrats want Bernie to have the reigns and would actually allow him to take them if he himself actually wanted to? the democrats are loving done if they do not find a new direction right goddamn now lol
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Nov 10, 2016 01:43
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hillary clinton was a greek tragedy waiting to happen. i think she is a talented, intelligent person. i think she is (or was) very, very ambitious. i think hillary clinton is a one in a million kind of person. she managed to avoid actual scandal and survive dozens of fake ones slung at her every day. but the republican machine worked. they dragged her through the mud for 20 years, and she thought, i'm doing it anyway, gently caress it. and i think every person on the planet should applaud her. she worked the washington game better than almost any other person in history. she tamed a thousand-headed hydra and was able to unleash it onto the world. but i think she played the game too hard in a couple of aspects: first, in her attempt to rightfully avoid scandals with a private email server. gently caress what y'all say, i genuinely think she used the drat thing so a republican didn't huff over very typo she sent in internet greeting cards after the clinton administration. she had her own best interests in mind and i don't think she had any intention of loving anyone over with the drat thing. look at what they put her through and go "yes, i want these people reading every word, ever letter, every bit of data i send". but when the email server was discovered, i think this is where the divide really comes in. the republicans flung so much mud at her, that her secrecy and double-speak like a true old-school politican became her downfall. there was now an item, a tangibility to her secrecy. this was part one of "hillary clinton is the corrupt democratic machine". if i recall the server was discovered because of benghazi of all loving things. benghazi undermined her ability to avoid being benghazied. i dont think people care about her emails. i think the emails remind everyone that hillary clinton was rightfully trying to hide poo poo, but there was an image drawn of her trying to do this already as a negative. it fit. the narrative stuck. the word emails makes people think she's hiding something. she was a snake-tongued washington crook in the eyes of many. second, wall street. after citizens united (and many other landmark cases), and after the deregulation of wall st, taking in big bucks matters to get elected. this is the perceived washington game. she had to take in millions upon millions of dollars to compete. this was how things were supposed to be done, thought everyone. after all, money wins small elections and always has. money buys you ads. money gets you people to upvote and downvote poo poo on reddit for fucks sake. money is the answer. more money, more control of the media. you get more ads, more ground game, more everything. more money makes for a better campaign because it affords you more opportunities than anyone else. the fact is, she gave into the dark side here and took bribes from wall st because they were going to fund her campaign. they wanted to buy her and make her enact pro bank policies. she went with 'hate the game not the player' because how the gently caress else are you going to win a presidential goddamn election? we have not had many campaigns of this scale, so this seemed like the obvious answer. but wall street collapsed the economy. her allies caused the collapse. i think most idiots know that (not the super crazy ones, but the ones that lost her the election here). she allied with the enemy and she was corrupt. again, strike 2 for washington. and i do think bernie sanders exposed this. if this was politics as usual and she had no opponent, tbh, i think she would have seen more scandals being flung at her, but she wouldn't have had such an air of corruption. i do not think this cost her the election, but i think it gave her another handicap to overcome. third, more obama. obama loving rules. hes a great dude. real charmer. good with the kids. obama is a one in a billion person. i hesitate to say this, but obama was a loving fluke. he had empty campaign promises and no baggage so everyone could project onto him. he motivated millenials because he was cool. he motivated independents because the republicans were in charge and all the jobs went away. but obama, somehow evaded being strongly tied to wall street. probably because he didn't line his pockets with speech money, i guess. but he had his turn, and white people in the boonies are still hosed. all the job growth went to cities because corporations are too large and so theres no way for local branches to just prop up and compete on the national or global market. small business are stifled and could not create jobs because obama let big corporations run the show. and this is where the branch breaks for that 10-20% of white people that threw the brick in the window. washington didnt fix their probems after all the hope-y change-y. hillary wanted to not only do business as usual, but she had the baggage obama didn't with big money and washington corruption. she wanted to break the glass ceiling, and white dudes, instead, wanted to drop the brick through it from above. she tried to win, but look at all of that. barely any of it was her fault (at least to her team), imo. when you look at this from an omnisesent poitn of view, of course that wouldn't work out. but look at it through her eyes. she made the right calls. but there were two more flaws, and they were 100% her fault and even with all of that above, she could have salvaged the election. 1) her campaign had no clear idea or voice, and her previous theme harmed her. "im with her" is a terrible slogan. not because its bad to be with her. nah, she's a pretty alright person with a couple things i dont like attached to her ticket. but it alienated all of the white dudes who got called sexist and they probably were, but they probably tried to improve and weren't total monsters. she made it more about being a woman than being a good politician at first, and this made for a wishy-washy message that went into later stages of the general. "stronger together" is a loving weak slogan. i see no goal. i see no idea for the future other than social policy. how does this help a white dude? here, let me look at the last two winning slogans. "yes we can", yes we can what? who gives a poo poo. yes we can ride unicorns. you can project what this means for you. its forward leaning and says something you want will happen, even if that thing is rainbows and elves. "forward" again, forward to what direction? towards whatever the gently caress i want! its goal oriented. it tells me something good is coming. hillarys slogans, and overal campaign theme, sold me no good feelings that i could make up for myself. "make america great again" this is powered entirely by nostalgia, but gently caress, it works. nostalgia is a filter and you can make up whatever good feelings it brings you. remember when you played sonic the hedgehog after school? yeah, we're back to geneis sonic the hedgehog games or whatever. who gives a poo poo. people are morons and they want to feel good about made up things that won't come to them. we want something and we don't know what that is but you better promise us the thing we goddamn want. hillary did not sell us anything we wanted. she sold us...... not donald j trump, who was selling a shitload of white people: a brick, nostalgia, and racism. and it had just enough support to loving win. 2) she is not charismatic. she is a wonk. she has a fake laugh and a faker smile. obama can pull this off so well, trump, despite being a buffoon, is a chaotic ball of orange digits and lip-like crevices all forming odd shapes, but they're his loving shapes. hillary is a baddass grandma and she tried to be the cool and collected ubermensch and could not pull it off. now, there's argument here to be made, if she really was genuine, or if her attempts to appear like this were to thread the needle of being a woman? gently caress if i know, but she was not herself. she was not her own person. she was a robot like romney, uncomfortable in her own skin and hell, the republicans probably did that to her. its super unfair that she can't yell like bernie, it's super unfair that she can't make self-depreciating jokes, or like a zillion other things. but she did not appear like a genuine person and that harmed the hell out of her. imo she could have gotten better acting lessons or something, but she didnt pull this off at all. obama was charismatic and fun and even if i disagree with him on a million things, he can tell a loving joke better than any other politician on the planet and thats part of why people voted for him. trump is a buffoon, but he is his own special kind of buffoon and people ate it up. 3) i had no idea what she wanted to do. seriously! what the gently caress! donald trump wanted to build a wall. he wanted to export mexicans and import nothing because gently caress global trade. he wanted to give japan nukes or something. poo poo, he has ten thousand policy positions that are concise and soundbyte-y. because he said literally everything ever, that gave people room to project their own policies onto him too. like, jfc. anyway, the point is, i can say like ten things off the top of my head that donald trump would do. hillary clinton would make college less not bad. thats about all i can think of that she can offer. obama offered "no politics as usual/unifted washington" "close guantanamo" and he promised every person in the country a 500 dollar check because the economy loving bombed. hillary ran a wishy-washy campaign with zero energy and rand on pragmatism and more of the same and suffered for it. she needed a clear vision and a few bombshell promises. she tried to play it cool and it blew up in her hands because people may not want lies, but they want an extension of the truth. hillary promised them the truth at absolute best. and that is a bad marketing strategy. oversell and then when you don't deliver, say you delivered anyway. people are goddamn idiots and marketing works. so my takeaway is: hillary clinton made some contextually correct choices, and ran a bad campaign as a reasonabley bland candidate. that is why she lost. she is not a bad person. she is super loving talented, but i will tell you a secret: she would have probably been a great president, but she is bombed the goddamn interview when asked about gasp on her resume. all while donald trump lied in big flashy bulletpoints.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:26
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i am not editing any of that because i am on three hours of sleep. everyone sucks, hillary got a poo poo deal, but she still could have threaded the needle. america is sexist and i dont think it was her time because of it, but she tried anyway, for better or for worse, and was this close to doing it. but she didn't. she holds some responsibility, but not all of it. thats my effort post, cya.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:29
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help, i need sleep.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:39
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that was an awful post and im sorry
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Nov 10, 2016 02:40
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comedyblissoption posted:hillary didnt lose b/c of misogyny its part of the reason she lost and why she made some of the choices she did. and i think it affected her career much more than it did anyone at the voting booth imo. but it was still a handicap, and without it she probably coulda won. not because a bunch of dudes are voting against a woman, but because it informed and affected literally every decision she made in her entire life. she could have won by being a better candidate too, tho.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:16
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obamacare is better than not obamacare, straight up.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:17
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Peel posted:there doesn't need to be a single reason she lost yup, this is my argument. i think it affected many of the (in hindsight, bad) choices she made because people were more antagonistic against her because she was a woman. it affected how she could and could not act, or at least forced her to make assumptions about how she could or could not act, and limited her ability to take risks. but she was still buddies with wall street, she still marketed herself poorly, she was still boring, and she was still the status quo when millions of people now have a lower quality of life than they did ten-twenty years ago and nothing changed under the new guy with the new ideas.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:29
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Vox Nihili posted:What about Obama?? Thanks, Obama.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:37
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Nuclearmonkee posted:People vote for "gently caress the rich elite assholes who are loving us!" without reading too deep in the how. Ergo Trump. Call it Americanism. No seriously. Call it Americanism.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:38
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Lastgirl posted:The question was, did you want some straws for your soda cup? thanks for the one effortpost ed balls
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Nov 10, 2016 03:54
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hillary should have promised millions of solar jobs in the who-gives-a-gently caress states and said it ten thousand times.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:56
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Condiv posted:because he actually had a message. abuela didn't and that's why she lost bernie was literally a broken record with a simple idea: gently caress wall street and gently caress the megacorporations, they stole your jobs and have bought everyone off so they don't have to bring them back. also, more poo poo for you seemed to work p well.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:01
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Zikan posted:Cross postin this from the other thread gee, i wonder which faction was run by wall street and corporations lol
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Nov 10, 2016 04:04
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Not a Step posted:So, the weird and uncomfortable thing is that the next elections are going to rely even more heavily on the white vote, because if you thought voter suppression was bad this cycle you aint seen nothing yet. The Republicans own the Executive, Legislative and State governments, and are one bad weekend away from establishing a 6:3 majority in the Supreme Court. Black people in battleground states are going to need four forms of ID submitted in triplicate via fax only six weeks prior to even approach a polling station twenty miles away with a second biometric scanner that samples their rectal lining before they can vote. forgot about this. bernie branch might be the only hope.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:06
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Mrit posted:Back in 2006, I was angry. Angry at the Republicans, angry at the weakness of the Dems. I was hard left, and wanted to destroy the current government. seeing you post this makes me happy, tbh.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:07
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hillary hired her campaign staff. like, bernie hired jeff weaver and that was a mistake lol.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:09
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i wish the internet didnt exist so i could run for office. oppo would not do me well. then again donald trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:27
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KiteAuraan posted:"hmm, it seems to say here that you were probated by franco for quoting goatse in nite crew, and an auto-ban for using a mod tag, how can you lead america?" i was a heinous teenager, sadly.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:31
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kanye west lol
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Nov 10, 2016 04:37
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resar posted:I think the left democrats should probably get in touch with groups like the guys who took over the UK Labour party. they could probably shed some light on unfucking a neo-liberal political party even i think corbyn is a little nuts.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:45
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obama is one of the top 100 coolest people on the planet. obama won in part because he is einstein levels of cool.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:53
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Venom Snake posted:Iv met both but never talked to either on a regular basis ever. Mook was 100% certain in data and models which proved hilariously inaccurate and Podesta was more in that "we need to harness populism or were hosed" area. Both are done now though. hire me, i write posts on the internet and i'm right sometimes.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:54
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the clinton campaign, rather than deny the content of any emails, said it was a russian conspiracy. which says everything you need to know about the emails lol.
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Nov 10, 2016 05:07
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That DICK! posted:You know I think something that's weirdly stayed with me as a sign of what was wrong with Hillary in a nutshell, was her emphasis on the oft-used phrase "love trumps hate" In retrospect a terrible phrase in any way but the way she pronounced it was never tongue in cheek. It wasn't "LOVE trumps HATE." She very clearly pronounced it as "love Trump's hate." So it always sounded to me like "hey thank god this guy is so Fuckin Awful because now we're gonna win!" Which is a bad message for 9 or so reasons remember when her campaign website was literally a bunch of things about trump and nothing about her lol
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Nov 10, 2016 05:13
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Venom Snake posted:Imagine I quoted that article about too many cooks and all that. There was never any focus. why so many aides donors trying to hire twelve overqualified people and not actually letting one run the show?
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Nov 10, 2016 05:32
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Venom Snake posted:He said, kicking down the door to an empty room. The neoliberals got brutally owned and are now out of power. What do we do now? lets do it. idk how. wheres the room. i want to walk inside of it.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:22
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save us bernie sanders
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Nov 10, 2016 06:40
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Lastgirl posted:DNC's gotta go fam seriously like, the thumb on the scale is one thing, but they couldn't even loving win with that going on. i am happy to concede some morality for a team win that benefits people i care about. but it hosed us over harder.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:41
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Oh Snapple! posted:Is my mental image of these aides who thought they knew more about campaigning than Bill Clinton as douchey, Silicon Valley dweebs who chug Soylent accurate? im an idiot on the internet and i think i knew more than clinton's campaign staff, tbh.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:13
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rum sodomy Rainbow Dash posted:Can we talk about how loving stupid it was for the Clinton campaign to take her in? she literally couldn't wait until the election ended to give dws a cushy position somewhere. lol.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:27
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Weeping Wound posted:To be honest, I can't wait to see Sam Wang eat a bug. is there an elitist libs look stupid thread because i could use some of that right now. i want to see the previously complacent suffer just a little. not a lot. i dont want to see anyone suffer, but... i dunno. they brought this. that bubble did it to themselves and to us.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:it's cool to watch elitist libs suffer because at the end of they day they're suffering with an expensive glass of wine in an apartment that costs more than most houses end the bourgeoisie
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Nov 10, 2016 07:36
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ya'll my comrades. we in this together.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:42
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i refuse to be smug about political positions now. i dont care. i dont care if people hate me. i dont loving care if i have to look a man who wants to hate me to death because of who i am in the face. after all of the poo poo i've gone through, i refuse to give up on people. i know it's fun to say burn it down, but i will be a better person. i wiil not mock the lovely even if i think they hold evil, contemptuous views. i will find what little good there is in them and i will polish and nurture it and pray to loving god that maybe we have a better country in four years.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:47
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pick me. i have nothing better to do, tbh. besides my job i guess.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:06
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triple sulk posted:Hello trumped up trickle down economics
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Nov 10, 2016 08:08
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democrats are weak little babies. we need backbone. fight for the people.
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Nov 10, 2016 08:44
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rum sodomy Rainbow Dash posted:If that happens they'll probably lose 2020 even harder. I don't think millenials and others are going to forget this election so easily. I've already seen angry tweets about people holding their nose to vote for Clinton only to let Trump win. You're not going to convince them to vote for tepid neoliberalism a second time. yup, in my millenial facebook bubble everyone is loving livid. all the smarmy we-told-you-so-ing a lot of people had to put up with just turned to democratic poison. the establishment is done for our age unless they get another obama.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:57
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