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Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Waffleman_ posted:

Square has an entire-rear end press conference at E3 this year, if Avengers isn't there, it's dead.

Not necessarily. They just opened a new studio for Crystal Dynamics up here near Seattle specifically to work on that project. It'd be a little dumb if they didn't have a trailer, but it's entirely possible that their heads are still down and we won't hear more about it until 2020 or beyond. A big triple-A game takes time to make.

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Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
Particularly with a company like Square Enix, which tends to make big games with long development cycles. Putting it out there publicly that they're working on a Marvel game was probably very useful in terms of things like stock prices and venture capital, which are unfortunately significant concerns in the modern business.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

So hey, you're not alone in this by any means, but there's a lot going on here and a lot of it is based on misconceptions about how games are made and marketed.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Nipponophile posted:

Are you trying to argue that the company which owns a studio has no input or influence on their development process?

It depends on the companies involved.

With Mankind Divided in particular, I have heard nothing to indicate that Square Enix took a hand in its development or content at all. Eidos Montreal made all the major decisions involved with its creation.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

TheNamedSavior posted:

Game clearly ends on a cliffhanger and is ENTIRELY trying to set up a big dumb plot twist about how Adam (Spoilers for both Deus Ex and Metal Gear) IS ACTUALLY A CLONE OMFG THAT TOTALLY ISN'T RIPPING OFF MGSV AT ALL.

But instead, the game was weirdly spammed with lovely DLC, a lovely story that requires you to read the tie in books to even understand what's going on, and just around the same time, Hitman was doing a weird multi-episode model at the same time.

Coincidence? I think not.

Look, if you have a theory, identify it as such.

DLC is a fact of life for games aimed at a console market, Eidos Montreal is hardly the only company that uses out-of-game materials for storytelling (Blizzard has become notorious for it), and IO Interactive's episodic model has no relevance or real similarity to the "Jensen's Stories" DLC.

Right now, you're making up conspiracies to justify a thoroughly irrational rant.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
The designers for both modern Deus Ex games clearly intended an ideal stealth run to be one where you got through without spending any energy or interacting directly with a human target. They incentivized pure stealth with the "ghost" bonus, and made it clear that any stealth takedown in your arsenal was going to cost you a resource, whether it was energy, ammunition, gas mines, or what-have-you. A pure shoot-'em-up approach is easy, but it's also messy and narratively described as a failure condition; NPCs will berate you for being a murderer.

However, like a lot of things about the Eidos Montreal design, it's such a soft pressure towards a certain approach that most players don't realize it's there at all. They didn't commit to making you go all-in on a certain character build the way that the original Deus Ex did, so instead, your progress through the game ends up being this smorgasbord hell-blend of whatever you feel like doing at the time. It's more organic, but less customizable.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
DCU Online was a Sony Online Entertainment joint, and all of those got spun off into an independent company called Daybreak a while back that apparently intends to keep running all those live services until the heat death of the universe. It just picked up Lord of the Rings Online and Dungeons & Dragons Online, both of which apparently still have enough of a player community that it's worth keeping the servers on.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Medullah posted:

I mean, they've kept EverQuest going for 20+ years.

I have often wondered how much of that is down to a legitimately dedicated player community, and how much is from some sizable number of people who are very bad at checking their credit card statements every month.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Open Marriage Night posted:

The Game Informer article mentions a team bonus for Midnight Sons. I think Blade was announced, but I hadn’t heard anything about Ghost Rider.

Technically, after the Damnation crossover, that could also include Iron Fist or Moon Knight. Ghost Rider wouldn't exactly be a surprise, though.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
A while back, apparently because the company that made the Switch port wasn't as diligent about hiding data as NRS is, a bunch of intro dialogues were found in the code that were responsible for the first two waves of DLC getting leaked. Among them was a bunch of possible intro dialogue for Spawn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkeZA4Ihs3k

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
For whatever it's worth, I saw the behind-closed-doors demo on Avengers, and the characters all looked a lot better there.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
There's a whole thing with MMOs in particular where, assumedly due to the sunk-cost fallacy, any game that becomes successful tends to generate a die-hard core audience that will continue to stick with it no matter what. There are still people playing Everquest and Ultima Online in 2019, and there were a few die-hards still playing the original Asheron's Call right up until the plug got pulled in 2017.

What I'd imagine is more of a danger to DCO than anything else is that it's one of several titles that are being kept alive on a shoestring by Daybreak Games, which keeps having layoffs and changing ownership. The moment somebody decides to pull the plug on Daybreak, it's going to put about a dozen zombie MMOs out of business.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
There likely won't be for a while. It was one of the big losers at E3 due to its trailer being kinda bad, so it's got a firm dose of anti-hype.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
A "proper" modern Punisher game would be basically the same as Hitman, except the emphasis is on making sure there won't be any civilian casualties. You study, infiltrate, evac noncombatants, and then go after everyone left in the building with a giant gently caress-off machine gun.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

OnimaruXLR posted:

I'm kind of baffled that there is no game that is just Hitman x GTA. I like Hitman conceptually but a lot of times the missions are just too deliberately paced, and GTA on other hand has needed an injection of dynamism into the way it's missions play out for a long rear end time.

It's because the two gameplay models are basically opposites.

Hitman levels are very carefully constructed to allow for multiple possible approaches, all of which were at least partially anticipated by the designer. The GTA model of open-world game--see also the Ubisoft model--is very carelessly constructed, because the goal is specifically to create unplanned, dynamic events.

(In general, Hitman makes more sense if you consider that most of the time, it's a puzzle game with action sequences as a sort of failure state.)

To blend the two approaches, you'd basically be talking about making a Hitman game set in a single city-wide level with a potential for random events, which is not going to be something you could realistically achieve within a decent time frame in a standard working environment. That's the kind of project you kick down the road until you can tell your network of slave AIs to "make it that way."

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Retro Futurist posted:

Spider-Man supporting cops makes sense because his fundamental character is a naive, hope filled kid. That doesn't mean he has to be shown as right about it or you can't do shades of gray or anything, but Parker himself liking cops makes sense with who he is.

Peter's been consistently friendly to the cops, often with specific friends on the force: Jean DeWolff, Yuri, that old dude from JMS's ASM, that bald guy from Ultimate, etc. How antagonistic he and the cops are to one another is something that shifts from writer to writer, sometimes dramatically, but it often errs on the side of wary friendliness.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Endless Mike posted:

I still don't know what this game *is*

It's a third-person action game where you switch between various Avengers based upon the narrative and the stage. Each one has a different assortment of abilities.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

OnimaruXLR posted:

I don't gently caress with a lot of games that are a part of the modern zeitgeist. Is this business speak for "there's a loot treadmill that you can spend real money on to speed up" right? Like Destiny? Is that how Destiny works??

Think League of Legends. The game is not simply released and done, or released and later expanded upon, but is regarded as a continuing service that is consistently updated with more things to do, characters to use, or cosmetic items to collect.

The "loot treadmill" you're discussing is more of the free-to-play mobile model where it's designed to encourage you to spend actual money.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
Helps to make the universe less white, too.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Skwirl posted:

It was a commercial failure, but I think Superman Returns was triple A, wasn't it?

AAA is a hazy, subjective term, and 2006 was a very different time, but yeah, it was internally developed at Electronic Arts.

I'd imagine that a big-budget Justice League game has the same problem that a Superman game does: it's difficult to present them with a threat big enough to be realistically dangerous. A Justice League game also features the big narrative swing where you need to figure out how to let players use both Batman and the six or seven walking deities that he gets to boss around.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
It's a poor comparison. Marvel's Avengers is using a vague spin on the MCU, where the dials are set lower than the comics and the characters are distinctly more vulnerable. They're certainly powerful, but not so powerful that you can't present them with legitimate challenges.

Superman, by comparison, presents design issues that have been discussed for over a decade now, because good Superman stories are rarely if ever about the risk that Superman himself might fail in a significant way or die. Superman Returns is generally seen as the core of a good idea for how to adapt the character to a game, where it's essentially an escort mission but your escortee is an entire city. The execution was poor, though, and it arguably came out too early.

If you power Superman down for the adaptation, it's rightly going to be seen as the coward's way out. If you do something like start him early in his career when his powers aren't anywhere near their peak yet, so you have the ability for his abilities to meaningfully improve, you might be able to get some good references in there but it's not quite a Superman story.

Realistically, though, nobody's going to be all that interested in solving the Superman issue in game design when they could just make a game about almost any other DC character instead. It's not just a problem in search of a creative solution; it's a problem that's so difficult to solve that nobody's particularly interested, especially right now when WB is in a severe cash crunch and has never been less interested in experimentation.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Lobok posted:

That's usually what videogames are, yes. Superman can fight in literally any environment on the planet or in the universe and sticking him in a city the whole game seems like a colossal waste. Especially since it's a place he's meant to keep clean and pristine.

You're missing their point.

One of the hallmarks of a Sonic game's design, even back in the Genesis days, is that their stages have to be enormous by comparison to other games in the same genre, because Sonic covers so much ground so quickly. A single Sonic level might mostly be hallways, platforms, and rails, but it still covers more square footage than you might find in a whole other game.

As such, in a theoretical Superman game where he's both super-fast and can fly, any level you put him in is going to have to be enormous simply to represent the pace he's moving at. An open world would have to be massive, while a planned level would have to be the size of another game's open world. It's a lot of work, even if most of that virtual space is mostly liminal and empty.

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Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

SonicRulez posted:

As I grow older, I come to believe every franchise should have a musou series. Yes even whatever you thought of to counter me.

Paper Girls, where you drive over hundreds of time-traveling weird future humans on a Huffy bike.

Smoke cigarettes for a buff.

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