interviewing and job hunting is garbage

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing and job hunting is garbage

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

The Management posted:

same except the exact opposite. if someone gives you a takehome project tell them that your time has value and they can shove it up their rear end.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 18:48

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 23:18

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Bloody posted:

so I may have accidentally emailed my boss/boss's boss/HR my signed offer letter instead of my signed notice of termination today

lmao

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 18:57

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Rex-Goliath posted:

the illusion is that everyone else is tef levels of smart but the reality is all of us are middling-tier intelligence and know how to use google

you've demonstrated an ability to go out on your own and learn a tech and make something out of it. that's literally 90% of the job

the other 10% is being able to talk to other people

programming isn't even about being smart really, it's mostly about doing some half-assed poo poo that solves the problem

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 20:10

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I'm getting supergood at sql because that's what I do at my job all day basically. At least databases won't be one of those topics that I have to pretend to have a clue about anymore.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 01:00

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Rudest Buddhist posted:

Got assigned a hacker rank homework test today. Taking your advice before I jump into it. This is pretty slick.

hackerrank keeps sending me e-mails challeging me to solve problems and I can't stop

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 01:01

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

sql is mostly good but I have a few beefs with it

1. it's kind of hard to think up some algorithms in terms of joins instead of imperative code. I'm way better now at it but it still gets me every now and then.

2. I wish sql would be smarter and guess more about what I want and optimize accordingly. I don't know, a lot of what I do is trial-error, and the most efficient way to do poo poo sometimes end up kind of hacky. waah waaah

here's an example:

SQL code:

SELECT butt._id,
       butt.shape,
       score,
       array_agg(keyword)
FROM butt
INNER JOIN butt_score ON butt._id = butt_score._id
INNER JOIN setting_favorite_butt_shape ON butt.shape = setting_favorite_butt_shape.shape
INNER JOIN butt_keyword ON butt._id = butt_keyword._id
WHERE butts_provider = 456
  AND score > 0
  AND setting_favorite_butt_shape.fancier_id = current_butt_fancier()
GROUP BY butt._id,
         score
ORDER BY score DESC
LIMIT 20;

this is super slow and doing it with a subquery like this was way more efficient

SQL code:

SELECT t.*,
       array_agg(keyword)
FROM
  (SELECT butt._id,
          butt.shape,
          score
   FROM butt
   INNER JOIN butt_score ON butt._id = butt_score._id
   INNER JOIN setting_favorite_butt_shape ON butt.shape = setting_favorite_butt_shape.shape
   WHERE butts_provider = 456
     AND score > 0
     AND setting_favorite_butt_shape.fancier_id = current_butt_fancier()
   ORDER BY score DESC
   LIMIT 20) t
INNER JOIN butt_keyword ON t._id = butt_keyword._id
GROUP BY t._id,
         t.shape,
         t.score;

which feels way less natural and unexpected because usually subqueries are slower than joins? :shrug:

3. btw optimization is a whole nontrivial skill, in theory indices are kind of a simple idea, but in practice it's super tricky to choose the right ones. mad respects for the good DBAs out there, I wish I worked with one instead of just flailing alone.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 15:30

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

but the point is that I'm way more confident at sql now, maybe I should strive for a DBA career from now on :frogc00l:

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 15:34

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

St Evan Echoes posted:

its probably faster because you're calling that array_agg function less often when its being run in a subquery

functions are a cancer on query speed

The Management posted:

the first query does array_agg on all of the inner join rows (dot product). the second essentially produces 20 rowids and calls array_agg on those

I see, but still... what bothers me is like... shouldn't the database know the optimal order (produce the 20 rows and then array_agg) to do it?

and why do I need to add score to the "group by" statement, shouldn't it know via the schema that there's only one score associated to each id? maybe I shoud denormalize score, gently caress

I tried for a while to write a lot of custom functions because ~encapsulation~ but eventually I learned that it messes up with the query planner so it's not worth it

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 20:19

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

mishaq posted:

dc sucks

bc ftw

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 16:37

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Cocoa Crispies posted:

have you been running explain?

yeah, I'm still getting the hang of interpreting EXPLAIN ANALYZE and that's where the idea of using a subquery came from.

but it's not like it tells me why it decided to do this thing instead of the other thing that I expected. it just says it did the thing.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 16:38

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I bet she's cool.

# ¿ May 8, 2017 16:31

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

DuckConference posted:

to be fair Tumblr is probably the best language for writing modern microaggression services

# ¿ May 8, 2017 20:36

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Berious posted:

also if every hr person died would anyone really care or miss them? the answer is no btw

this is true for like 90% of all white-collar people tbf

including myself

# ¿ May 16, 2017 16:05

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I don't even put my phone on a resume

because there was this super annoying guy calling me once so gently caress that

# ¿ May 24, 2017 22:40

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

we're in figgietown here

# ¿ May 26, 2017 15:47

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

cis autodrag posted:

yospos literally took me from a dead end tech comm slave job to a successful engineer. pos is good. i lived in my in laws basement 5 years ago ffs. shits crazy.

I ascended to higher middle class without having a degree and I could say stuff like "I worked hard to get this" but actually I just parroted stuff from tef and shaggar and people just believe that I know something about computers

this is my yospos success story

Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 17:50 on May 26, 2017

# ¿ May 26, 2017 17:47

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

carry on then posted:

why the gently caress is ignorance a point of pride?

lol at credentialism

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:37

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

JewKiller 3000 posted:

it's actually an interview strategy that many companies will even suggest you use. instead of standing there thinking silently about the problem, trying to come up with a perfect solution, just start prototyping a brute force algorithm immediately and get something on the whiteboard so the interviewer knows you can code and doesn't doze off. then you'll have his attention as he points out the complexity and you get to demonstrate that you know how to optimize too

this is pretty much how it works on the real world, does anyone remember that one guy at CoC saying that for a given problem he needed weeks to medidate on the problem before even starting to write down the architecture of the code and then finally coding something?

gently caress people like that

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:41

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

JewKiller 3000 posted:

here's the secret about everyone who succeeds in tech without a degree: they're all white

and male

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:54

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

carry on then posted:

that's not what i was talking about and you know it

yolo

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:55

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

carry on then posted:

it's okay if you don't know theory but don't act like you're better than other people because you don't

I'm a weird case, I don't have a degree (failed math major) but I feel like I got way more solid theory compared to my peers. Mostly from doing online courses like algorithms on coursera. But those rarely helped me much in practice other than boosting my ego.

And then I think about the 3 best programmers that I worked with and they don't have a degree or really much of a solid background. And they're still way above me and anyone else I met. That's my anecdotal experience and why I'm behind forums user Shadowhawk on this, thanks for reading.

# ¿ May 28, 2017 20:12

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

AWWNAW posted:

well are they all white guys or not

one of them is not white :shobon:

Bloody posted:

its almost like - and hear me out, here - when you're screening totally unknown candidates, and you gotta go through a lot of them, you look for good signals too pick up on, and completing a degree in the thing you're hiring for has proven to be a decent signal? but it can still have noise, so it isnt perfect,

sorry, sorry, i dont know, just guessing

I've been so disappointed working with recently graduated people lately that I feel like some clueless 15 year old kid excited about computers would help me out just as much.

and like at least a 15yo would be excited idk

# ¿ May 29, 2017 01:07

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

JewKiller 3000 posted:

is he asian but raised in america and with no noticeable accent?

he's brown... I'm brazilian by the way so this would get into complicated ethnicity poo poo if I start getting too much on this in order to relay to an american audience

# ¿ May 29, 2017 01:16

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Bloody posted:

if u think 15 yos are excited about anything i have some bad news

that's part of how dire the situation is, at this point it makes no difference to bet on a literal child to be less useless

# ¿ May 29, 2017 01:43

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

one thing that I always found weird about programmer career culture:

is that there isn't an urgency for maintaining a "code portfolio". in my mind it makes sense to me in a "sofware development is a craft" way

like sure we judge people's githubs but 99% of candidates have an empty github account wtf

# ¿ May 30, 2017 23:32

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

jre posted:

gently caress hiring anyone who's writing code out of hours

cmon, maybe they wrote that radixsort code while reviewing for interviews! :haw:

# ¿ May 30, 2017 23:41

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

you guys expect people to review computer science concepts for interviews, but you don't expect them to showcase any code that they're proud of.

you guys are part of the problem!

# ¿ May 30, 2017 23:43

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

carry on then posted:

you cannot be serious with this post

I wrote lovely blog posts using complexity analysis, I'm a dorkass nerd. I don't resent this stuff, I just recognize that it's way overrated as a way for telling good programmers from bad ones. I'm not seriously reprimanding anyone here for not maintaining a code portfolio because I know that's barely relevant (I also don't do it). I'm just whining that this is not the way it should be.

# ¿ May 31, 2017 00:37

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Elysiume posted:

yeah, I did an interview where someone with 10+ years of developing experience was passingly familiar with hashmaps (didn't fully realize a python dictionary was a hashmap, even though it was his primary language) and thought that basically every operation on it was O(n), even in the best case

I'd accept something like "the only thing i know is that dictionaries are fast as poo poo"

Elder Postsman posted:

python dictionaries are cool + good. i use them for literally everything.

same, gently caress the haters

# ¿ Jun 2, 2017 22:10

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

without a doubt you are overestimating "a place like" that and underestimating how good you are

i mean, unless you're troy from my first job out of college, gently caress that guy

hi im troy

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 16:09

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

Cocoa Crispies posted:

get a language that supports tail recursion, like scheme, erlang, or c

I completely forgot C had tco until now

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 17:27

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

VOTE YES ON 69 posted:

it doesn't? a c compiler does (or rather, might)

oh yes yes, sorry

I hope I didn't lose a chance at the yospos shitposter opening with this

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 17:44

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

recursion comes up naturally when you try to parse something.

also once or twice I needed a bespoke levenshtein-like distance function

I know you could just write it with an explicit stack and all instead but when you're just throwing around code to solve a problem fast, recursion feels easier in these cases imo

# ¿ Jun 20, 2017 04:38

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

The Management posted:

and if I see you converting a pointer to an int in an interview know that I am emailing the recruiter to walk you out after I'm done.

what if I leave a comment right above it saying "yolo"?

# ¿ Jun 25, 2017 05:09

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

I'd get nervous on answering immediately the size of int, I'd need to think for a bit

(ok char is 256, OBVIOUSLY because ascii and stuff, so 8 bits. then short is double that 16, and int is double that... then 32. cue in talk about architectures here)

I'm just used to typing u16, i32 etc that I never think about the basic types anymore

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 05:07

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

a friend told me to send a resume to the company he works at, he said if I get hired he gets a bonus. is it kosher to mention it in the motivation letter? like "I got interested in the company via the recommendation of *butt's friend name*"

or should I only say this after they start the process?

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 14:05

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

ThePeavstenator posted:

your project is going to add 36 million in revenue and they managed to squirm out of a 40k raise by saying they didn't have the money

just thought id point that out

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 15:33

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 23:18

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

LordSaturn posted:

ah jeez, I did this to myself once, except it was Python and they eventually caught me out on static methods

dunning-kruger or not, never offer them more expertise than they need

if @staticmethod was all that relevant to them you may have dodged a bullet there

you should know about super() though, this is how I feel like as a professional p-langer

# ¿ Jul 14, 2017 18:29

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > interviewing and job hunting is garbage