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LordAba posted:Since the RPGers have to gently caress up every topic they touch (jesus, go back to the kickstarter thread) it's mostly true. While some systems are better than others, RPGs are basically non-confrontational between members so you should just take the ruleset you are given and make things up with the power of your imagination. You don't need to pay £20-80 for rulebooks to do that.
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Mar 22, 2017 13:45
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Liquid Communism posted:You don't need to spend that money on instructions for playing with your toy soldiers either, but here we are. Yeah, but the aim is to get something more complex than putting stuff on a table and having it go how it feels right. You don't need rulebooks is only an argument to "The GM can do what he wants, it's all pretendy funtime games, so who cares about having good rules?", because if you do want rules that guide, support, and structure your game, as I assume most people do, the quality of the ruleset matters.
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Mar 22, 2017 14:25
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Bistromatic posted:I think part of it is logistics, if you're going for a pick up game at your LGS you need to decide what models to bring before you leave your house and before you know who your opponent is. Yeah, this is it. Practically you need to bring a list to a club. Infinity and Malifaux both do cool things with blank boxes, but in practise you've got a carry case so one way or another you know what's what.
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Mar 28, 2017 01:30
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panascope posted:Buying a product with the quality and pedigree of Games Workshop doesn't make you a "dumbass". otoh you're the guy who thinks the star wars prequels are good so nah
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Mar 29, 2017 04:09
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Hixson posted:I used to dislike GW too. It's different now; GW has changed alot in the last year, and is doing really really cool stuff. To say otherwise you're either stupid or willfully ignorant why are 10 space marines £25 edit:  wait five assault marines are £25 how is GW still in business
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Mar 29, 2017 15:55
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TKIY posted:Can you not admit that what they have done in the last year is at least 'better' than the previous five or so? I mean, yeah, they're better, in that having a "start collecting" box is better than not having any entry point or that having a PR stream that's constantly full of jokes at the fandom's expense is better than remaining totally silent and firing plastic into the void every three weeks, but the lines as a whole are still massively overpriced and overdetailed and we're still in a state of genuine wonder, again, whether or not several armies are even going to exist next year when the current 40k metaplot is finished, which is insane given that exact thing just happened to Warhammer and was widely considered a Bad Move.
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Mar 29, 2017 15:59
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TTerrible posted:AoS is a horrendous abortion of a ruleset. Agreed. I'm pretty sure Hordes or Warmachine do this already, though (though I don't play either, so I can't be sure). TKIY posted:AoS is a bad game that recently got better, and there are signs it will get better with Generals Handbook 2. I mean, it has points and something that looks like a scenario system now but it's still a trainwreck. There's several scenarios that're over if someone has something particularly fast to double-turn onto an objective, and if you don't do that then the game ends up won by either whoever has the One Weird Trick that rolls ninety dice rerolling 1s and 5s and doing d3 mortal wounds and/or gets a double combat turn that butchers everything. The patch for summoning stuff inadvertently killed the utility of horrors. There's still bizarre BS like "my enormous chariot is in the way of this dude so I can't see him but I can see through that dude's legs so I can see through him" and shooting out of combat to kill stuff miles away. You can still kill the crew of a gun and knock the gun out and that might be necessary because so many guns just annihilate everything if you bring like four or five of them. Points are a really obvious thing to fix if you were going to start fixing AOS but I still feel really bad for anyone who plays it.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:11
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ijyt posted:Lmao being angry at a hobby you don't even do. It's like getting mad at Canon for only minimally improving their low-light performance and never having owned a camera. I think "angry" kind of overstates it but there's a definite frustration with GW because GW does try and monopolise people's game spaces even though the games are poo poo. Like people said, if Necromunda does come back there's going to be a bunch of Infinity/Deadzone players who lose out because, even if it's poo poo, it has orks in it. I get that like half this thread is shitposting but it's still the "JOKES ON YOU I WAS ONLY PRETENDING" comic. spectralent fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 17:12
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ijyt posted:Am I reading this right. You're mad at competition in a capitalist system? lol what quote:You can play more than one tabletop game, they're not exclusive when you have a regular pay cheque! TIL people have regular pay cheques and also infinite free time with which to not only schedule games with other people who have infinite free time but also assemble and paint toy soldiers. Oh and infinite capacity to remember an infinite amount of rulesets with no other things they need to think about. Also we're all immortal so time spent doing any one thing is basically interchangeable and definitely NOT a waste. EDIT: Wait, hang on, mentions of capitalism, "not expensive if you have a job  " posting... You're one of those people who unironically uses the term poorhammer to defend your sunk costs in bad games, aren't you?
spectralent fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Mar 29, 2017 |
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Mar 29, 2017 17:16
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Xarbala posted:This is actually, genuinely the funniest things have been in a while. I dunno, I never found the "I'm saying a thing that dumb people believe for real, which is funny because I'm not actually one of the dumb people" gag really stupid because it relies on having opinions so well known that it's obviously a joke and most people aren't that popular. Like, you'd need to be Nixon saying how much he loves commies for it to not just come off as "Oh, this person actually has lovely opinions".
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Mar 29, 2017 17:23
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Atlas Hugged posted:I'm super excited now that GW has changed directions and makes the best rules and the best games. But since GW was super awful for a couple of decades, I went ahead and started buying reasonably priced miniatures that weren't over designed garbage. Now that I'm playing GW games again, can I use these new miniatures to recreate battles in the 41st millennium? yeah but you gotta hot-glue massive shoulderpads onto them and re-prime them with granite paste and roll them around in beads before never finishing them to match the current design aesthetic
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Mar 29, 2017 17:25
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TTerrible posted:Is it worse to do this or to be the person continually replying to it. People are wrong on the internet.
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Mar 29, 2017 17:49
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Chill la Chill posted:Classic thread favorite too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRIVTEBaLkA I just noticed they all got little gloves 
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Mar 29, 2017 19:08
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nopantsjack posted:I don't see any armies getting the bretonnia treatment apart from maybe sisters I am honestly more and more surprised every passing edition they haven't just squatted sisters already.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:49
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I'm personally looking forward to changes at GW that are going to make it a cool and good company superior to it's competition like: 1. Hmm. 2. Th- wait, no. 3. Give me a minute.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:54
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Chill la Chill posted:Friday Night Warhammer. Promo dice and exclusive foil unit cards Oh yeah that organised play system they announced and are supporting! That'd be great. I guess they have a cosplay competition now which is kind of like supporting their products in stores? tallkidwithglasses posted:GW sculpts are better on average than other wargames miniatures companies. Really subjective. GW have released like maybe three models since sigmar that don't look like rear end, IMO. Unless you're including, like, absolutely every miniatures company including the guys who're casting dumpy potato men out of pure lead in 40 year old moulds in which case sure. GW are at least doing well in eliminating mould defects recently on models I've seen; they've generally been totally free of flash and mould lines. But the actual models they make... Yeah, not convinced.
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Mar 29, 2017 22:59
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Mango Polo posted:If you think AoS has too few choices to make in a turn, you are either a superior human being than the people you regularly play. Or more likely you haven't given it a proper go with the correct respect. There's a bunch of stuff you can decide in AoS, but the issue is it's way outweighed by random variation in a couple of big things and that some choices matter way more than others. Double-turns are game-ruiningly bad, and I've seen several armies where I'm just wondering why they're even played because people just straight walk over them. Artillery is particularly bad. The issues with GW's cargo cult design are, I feel, most emblematic with the removal of charts you mentioned. You put forward sound logic; it's true that you can build threat and vulnerability into the individual models, and that removing a chart speeds things up. But why keep hit and damage? You've got a single "threat" value, there, that's largely independent of everything else (there's some "reroll 1s to hit" type stuff, but that's not incompatible with a single dice roll for attack). All it does is prolong resolution and increase the randomness of a given number of attacks.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:10
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Enjoyment of things is subjective and it seems a little spergy to try to come up with some sort of KPI to analyze the objective best way to spend disposable income??? I mean, if you want to phrase "spending money on good looking models instead of bad ones" that way, sure, but that just seems like common sense. TTerrible posted:Maximise grog/hr at all times. Also this but unironically.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:13
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Safety Factor posted:We will all see the finished rulebook sooner or later, and I can see no evidence yet that it will just be AoS ported over to 40k. Take a company like Blizzard, who constantly uses their experiences from their other franchises in their franchises (heck, WoW is getting more and more Diablo-esque every patch it seems). AoS has been an experience for GW, they have learned some things along the way and I would be more surprised if they didn't use their experiences from AoS in 40k. Does that mean they will just port it over as is? Not likely. Sure. I'm just not convinced given GW's track record they're really going to sit and do a lot of soul searching about what really needs to go in a ruleset and what's just sacred cows they won't kill and stuff that seems "fun". I mean, this is the company that made both LotR and Epic and did nothing with either of them. Who was responsible for LotR and Epic, anyway? I have a weird feeling they're not at GW anymore, either way, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were at mantic or something.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:21
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MikeCrotch posted:Epic 40k and Armageddon were both Jervis. LotR was Alessio, the Perry brothers and Brian Nelson. Were the Perrys/Nelson involved in the rules-making? I knew them solely as sculptors.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:47
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I feel like the horror tag is getting less ironic the more posts I see today.TKIY posted:Grimdark is going away. AoS moved to high fantasy and tossed it's grimdark element away when it lost the Empire and vampire counts etc. AoS has eternal warfare against blood-soaked lunatics who're somehow slowly poisoning infinity with people who kill humans on the off-chance they're corrupted being the good guys. It's still pretty grimdark, it's just stopped orientating the camera on anyone it's possible to care about (maybe there's human viewpoint characters in the novels but so far basically the only people who show bare skin in AoS are the bad guys who're also mad max villains). Also the "It's a generational thing, protagonists can't be grounded now" thing is dumb. Fourteen year olds like invincible space marine heroes, did do and always will do. People in their 40s don't have a monopoly on liking characters with flaws.
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Mar 30, 2017 01:01
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Ilor posted:Let me introduce you to Infinity, friend... ^^^Infinity is boss and you should play it. If some of the models bug you proxy them with something else because the core mechanics are genuinely brilliant.
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Mar 30, 2017 01:03
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ijyt posted:What I would expect from Games Workshop would be an annual calendar, which needs only to be basic, stating the rules releases for the year. This is a pretty basic expectation, yeah. It's not as universal as it should be (looking at you Battlefront) but I'd say a majority of companies have some attempt at a schedule and the fact GW doesn't when GW has a historical trust problem from pulling rugs out is pretty baffling.
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Mar 30, 2017 01:22
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Avenging Dentist posted:I mean, I don't really care about changing 40k; it is what it is, and from my perspective, I think it's in the process of collapsing under its own weight. If people like it, I don't really care (although I do think it's very seriously flawed). I feel like that's probably basically malifaux. At least, in the sense of "A team of guys with individual superpowers you're trying to make work together to beat your opponents to objectives". spectralent fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 01:35
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ijyt posted:Oh yeah like I said earlier to spectralent 40k isnt exclusive there are tons of cool games to play (apart for warmachine). Guild ball is very cool! There are good opinions in the thread again I'm scared. Avenging Dentist posted:In all honesty, Overwatch's design has made me warm a bit to Infinity's design, but one of the things I really like about Overwatch is the huge amount of stylistic variety in the heroes. Yeah; it's a really colourful, stylish game. It'd be nice to see that on a table. I kind of wonder what an Overwatch tabletop game would be like, now. It'd be interesting to have a game that's 100% based on "hero" models that each have a power and gimmick. Even stuff like the Warmahorde and Malifaux things Bad Moon posted:To me Overwatch is cyberpunk poured through The Incredibles lens while Infinity is more or less straight cyberpunk I dunno if I'd call Overwatch cyberpunk, personally; it's not very -punk, it's downright optimistic in a lot of places, and I can't think of much that's all that cyber, either. Sombra is, but it doesn't generally deal with either the cybernetic or cyberspace aspects I'd associate with the prefix. It feels like near-future sci fi.
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Mar 30, 2017 02:04
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Atlas Hugged posted:I don't play 40k because people get mad at me when I put down non-GW models so I say whatever and go and play a dozen other games with those same figures and no one cares. 40k fans are weird. In fairness I've never noticed this but maybe it's less of a thing if you play in a non-ham store.
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Mar 30, 2017 14:24
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It's kind of amazing how GW fans are even bad at being bad.
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Mar 30, 2017 15:21
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berzerkmonkey posted:This. This is why people tend to not enjoy playing games with stand-ins and counts-as models. Yeah, it sucks that you went all out on the generic female only Space Nazis Kickstarter and don't want to buy from GW, but I don't want to have to constantly ask what your models are supposed to represent. It's even worse in a skirmish game where each model has a different loadout - "Oh that model with the pistol and knife? He's actually equipped with a jetpack, heavy laser cannon, and terrain ignoring tracks instead of legs." how do you play epic without subbing models Chill la Chill posted:For some reason, people are fine with standardized sword/arrow/spear but when it comes to SF, we nerds get really mad if our laser cannons aren't different from our missile launchers and plasma guns and rail guns. Infinity is really guilty of this too and most of the complexity of its rule system is the fact that somebody thought it was a great idea to have 30 different versions of "space gun" and 5 versions of parachutes. I hope the scrappers game just has a basic single/semi/auto ranged weapon with pinpoint/AOE heavy weapon. And even then people will cry about the need to differentiate pistols from rifles instead of treating pistols as CQC as they should be because lol if you think you're winning a shootout with a pistol. This is definitely one of the weirder accusations, since my experience of, and what I hear from other people playing, Infinity is that generally proxying is fine so long as you're clear what's what and are okay with reminding someone, especially since like half the weapon loadouts don't have models.
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Mar 30, 2017 17:55
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berzerkmonkey posted:Let's play a game of chess - I'm going to use bottlecaps though, since I forgot my pieces at home. Trust me when I tell you what they represent, ok? It's just a game, am I rite? Maybe this was meant to be sarcastic, but, sure, if you're going to go "All the red caps are pawns and all the green ones are bishops", or something. Or just scratch a big white "P" into your pawn-caps. quote:For the most part, everyone has the actual models. There are a few differences, but Epic is also a game of weapon approximations for the most part, so your 6mm LAVs don't differ too much from my 6mm Chimera. That being said, I played a game of Epic against a guy last week who had a beautiful Knight army made up entirely of Ork conversions. The models were great and full of character, but I didn't know what the gently caress I was looking at. I couldn't tell unit types at all (other than the fact that they were Knights) and did not have a great time playing against that army. I guess this is just straight agree-to-disagree territory because I generally love good conversions and I've never usually found it hard to see substitutes. It seems a lot like a load of people are looking at this as a "someone's got an army of identical things and is deliberately trying to create confusion for what they are so they can claim their meltas are actually flamers" but that's just straight-up cheating and you shouldn't play with cheats. TheChirurgeon posted:Agree that this is annoying, but it would be better solved by GW not using true line of sight. But here we are Oh my god that's perfect. If you wouldn't play that because it's not actually a C'Tan I don't know what's wrong with you but hopefully there's a procedure for it. ijyt posted:sure here's a catalogue to order the right models I realise you're just shitposting but... The right models? For chess? Chill la Chill posted:The one big thing infinity is missing from its anime lineup and needs to address due to its popularity is an intergalactic pop idol singing group. It really needs a group of 3-9 idols singing like Minmay or idolmaster/love live. Infinity is GITS which doesn't have one of those. In the spirit of "saying something nice about GW" the celestine is actually a decent sculpt, but in keeping with the general thrust of GW's improvements she's also a trap choice for a dead faction to milk people who haven't accepted that yet. Also how the gently caress do you get her to a game? She'd need her own personal case. spectralent fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 19:27
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Stanyer89 posted:With magnets you gently caress-twat. Oh of course the magnets she comes with for the metal case everyone owns. Also she's NEVER jolted and snaps at thin pieces of plastic that attach her to her base. Also real-talk I actually like the older infinity paintjobs more than the new ones, everything looks so monotone now.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:34
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Most of infinity's model asses are ridiculous but I gotta hand it to them for actually giving a giant asexual robot a firmly toned rear end. That's commitment.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:35
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berzerkmonkey posted:I am 100% on board for conversions, and I'll play a converted army any day of the week. The problem comes when, again, someone wants to sub in their, say, Bolt Action army for 40K. If you can do a 1:1 swap for special weapons ("this Panzerfaust guy is a missile launcher") I'm cool with that. My issue comes from trying to keep track of both my army and what the other guy's models are supposed to represent ("these identical Panzers are actually armed differently.") Again, I think this is more of an issue with a lack of clarity than having proxies or conversions per se. If it's a big deal (one's a predator and one's a land raider, or something)... I mean, I'd be tempted to say "Use a tiger for the land raider" or something but if that's absolutely not an option you could do something like fold a napkin around the barrel. Though I've never actually seen vehicles, especially in 28mm, that are actually identical; usually people give them different camo or markings at least. quote:I totally get that not everyone has disposable income for toys. I only get to buy what I do because I am lucky enough to produce some stuff that I can then take the profits from and put back into my hobby. Just don't be a dick about it when I say your Sturmtitten KS models are not a good stand-in for a Space Marine army. I don't think this is a "we're here to accomodate the poors" argument, and the mere existence of poorhammer and classism-based plastic soldiers discourse is loving baffling. This is just a "I have some dudes and I like these dudes, why does the dumb game not want my business" argument. You get a lot more people invested if they can actually play your game than if they're locked out by a £2-300 minimum spend.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:41
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How do zombicide minis paint up? Are they one of those horrible plastics that blobs paint?berzerkmonkey posted:I agree - a high buy-in has turned me off from a lot of games, but it is what it is. This is a luxury hobby, and if you can't afford to play, then sorry for you. Nobody has a "right" to plastic toys, any more than they have a "right" to a PS4, a jetski, or a Lamborghini. Things cost money, it's a fact of life. This is getting weirdly prosperity gospel for a discussion about toy soldier etiquette but: You realise what the company does has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you're cool with people proxying, right? That's just not being a dick. Or is this irony, now? I really can't tell anymore.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:51
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nopantsjack posted:They don't owe you anything. They'd just get more players if they hadn't started out expensive then over the decades progressed to eye-poppingly extortionate. Its also kinda dickish if like me you remember when they were saying shifting to plastic would make models cheaper and plastic kits have doubled or tripled in price since. But to be clear, again, this doesn't have anything to do with getting to a table and going "These are not Citadel Miniatures (tm) Space Marines (tm)! You just class-signalled your way out of this hobby, bucko!" and leaving, which is insane.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:54
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nopantsjack posted:I'm pretty sure iv been responding to bots clumsily pasting together posts from warhammer fansites but it passes the time and my girlfriend is at work. Sadly most of the shitposting is coming from inside the thread.
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Mar 30, 2017 19:56
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TKIY posted:All of my poo poo is personally hand crafted while I am supposed to be working. same tbqh i have to wait to post it because the postie only comes mondays tho
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Mar 30, 2017 19:58
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berzerkmonkey posted:Yet again, it's not that they aren't Citadel Miniatures (tm) Space Marines (tm), it's that you're using pieces that are not easily identifiable in a game that requires pieces to be easily identifiable. Your argument is that I'm flipping the table because you brought bottlecaps to a checkers match. I'm arguing that you brought bottlecaps to a chess match and you're saying it doesn't matter. Again that's literally not what happens from my experience. I've played Infinity and nobody gives a poo poo if you proxy. I don't play Malifaux but I'm around that community, and I know they don't give a poo poo, and I assume the same is true of Warmachine. And yeah, bringing bottlecaps to chess wouldn't matter. Just write what they are on them or something, chess sets have had abstract pieces for decades. There's almost certainly an actual chess set that's more confusing than labelled pogs.
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Mar 30, 2017 20:07
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I've played chess over IRC by doing lovely ascii on a .txt file and sending that back and forth when I was bored at school once, so I'm pretty sure I could play chess with differently-coloured bottlecaps.
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Mar 30, 2017 20:10
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nopantsjack posted:Why? It's gotta be the most active this thread's been when GW hasn't actually done anything. Mango Polo posted:nice meltadown um it's actually a flamer???
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Mar 30, 2017 20:15
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Safety Factor posted:The general public is becoming more aware that processed food is toxic and full of chemicals. This is legitimately pissing me off because: 1. Everything contains chemicals 2. All food is artificial 3. All fruit and vegetables (or close to) that we eat are genetically modified. Corn didn't just spring into existence fully-formed High-fructose corn syrup is bad poo poo and I'm really surprised to see it contains mercury but the fact ketchup has GMOs in it has absolutely no issue for the consumer. GMOs and their regulation are a massive issue if you care about biodiversity, the rights of farmers, the right of a company to own basic science, and so on, but being genetically modified is going to do jack poo poo to your health on it's lonesome (and even then most food is actually fortified, instead of being made less nutritious, so most GMO food contains more nutrient content, not less). EDIT: Also checking our ketchup it's mostly water, 29% puree, and vinegar, so I guess the UK has less lovely ketchup. spectralent fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 20:51
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