Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
Hang all stars.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

FrozenVent posted:

Off the top of my head, and excluding stuff like math and physics, I got:
205 hours of seamanship, engineering and basic poo poo
120 hours of naval architecture
Roughly 260 hours of pilotage, ship handling and navigation
110 hours of colreg and practical collision avoidance (soooo much time in the fog in the simulator)
120 hours of celestial navigation
120 hours of intact and damaged stability (which might not be all that relevant to naval operations)
60 hours of radio communications

Let's round it up to a thousand hours, and I'm excluding stuff like electricity, management, regulations and cargo handling because I'm assuming those would be replaced by their military equivalent, for another 700-800 hours. I don't see how that can be condensed in 12 weeks, and leave enough time for studying.

When I got commissioned, they were cutting us orders directly to ships under the idea that OJT is all we need. :haw:

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Dingleberry posted:

I worked port ops in Everett on an assist tug; we'd put docking pilots aboard ships coming in and the pilots would generally talk about how the CO's were often unwilling or incapable of putting their own ships alongside the pier, comfortably. With two tugs providing assistance.
I can't imagine what level of ship handling one has to be a CO but not capable of a simple docking evolution.
So how much experience do they have to pass down in regards to busy navigation areas and good nav practices?
I have a 2nds license for what it's worth and spent most of my time sailing on dredges in pretty busy areas...

Harbor pilots always dock warships and control the tugs, therefore no naval officer ever gets practice doing it alone.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Godholio posted:

All I remember from my childhood there in the early 80s is Kmart. I imagine it hasn't been updated in appearance or stock since then.

That's true of every Kmart.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
Because we work for CTF 76, we had to do a safety stand down this drill weekend.

lol.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

orange juche posted:

I still get poo poo like that, a year+ on. Maybe if my life was in a lovely place like living in a spot where i couldnt toss a dart and land a job :shrug:. I have no idea why i would ever go back, except for maybe if i was retarded and somehow let my clearance lapse.

Kind of makes me wonder how worthless I am because I never get and never have gotten any poo poo like that.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Cerekk posted:

What the gently caress, do you surface dudes not have contact management software or what?

Little changes in radar return can lead to wild changes in software determined CPA.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

FrozenVent posted:

Such as?

ARPA has its limitations (If either the target or ownship turns or change speed, for example), but I've never seen it to have wild changes due to radar return issues. And I can't recall the last time I was on a ship whose magnetrons weren't hissing.

Beside you should be trying for a CPA that's wide enough that radar inaccuracies shouldn't put you at risk. It's been my experience that ARPA's limitations are far, far outweighed by the reductions in workload.

I've seen a console suddenly show a contact changing course by over 180 degrees for a few seconds before returning to something like the original calculated course.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

FrozenVent posted:

If losing a plot in such a radical fashion for a few second poses a risk to your collision avoidance, you should already have the GA going and the watertight doors closing.

It's an irritation and if you have a paper plot it's easy to just put in the position and confirm that it matches the expected course and speed rather than wait for the machine to unfuck itself and update.


Geizkragen posted:

Aircraft radars do this too.

You practice, over and over, learning what normal looks like and when you need to reject bad info. You also eventually develop a sense of when you need to do something else because your information is suspect. Like look outside.

Or look at your paper plot.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

M_Gargantua posted:

Still, that may be an urban legend that I heard over and over with no official corroboration

Yeah, for it to be true you'd have to have a command triad more concerned with sweeping and high dust than basic safety and mission accomplishment.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

M_Gargantua posted:

lack of peanut butter

I would have literally starved.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Mr. Nice! posted:

Also if you've never seen a DDG helm, it's pretty obvious which console has control. They may have still been at darken ship, but it's a lit up button on the console regardless.

I haven't, so what is it like sending lee helm to somewhere else? Does the conn give a rudder order and then call down every time?

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Ron Jeremy posted:

Isn’t it a little early for service selection?

Check the date stamp yo.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

On one hand, sailors gonna be sailors and this isn't the first time something like this has happened.

On the other hand, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion#Continued_focus_on_Hartwig

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
The key is being in a command where nobody with authority cares.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Elendil004 posted:

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...m_medium=social

"Maybe today’s Navy is just not very good at driving ships"

Everything in there is true and has been said for years and nobody is going to fix it because the senior ranks are filled with people who didn't get the gently caress out of the toxic environment.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Mr. Nice! posted:

More SWOS means more time in simulators and learning basic navigation and shiphandling. That's useful with pulling into a port unaided by pilot/tugs or in general how to usefully drive the ship.

It won't do anything about a captain refusing to put a proper nav watch up before entering the SoM or a collective watch team (with 2-3 SWOs and dozen enlisted people in combat and the bridge) from playing with their dicks instead of looking outside.

Yes, both collisions were major failures, but there isn't any seamanship training for the couple of SWOs would have fixed over people just generally pulling their heads out their asses.

Yeah, I don't think you can draw a straight line from the SWOS problems to those collisions in particular but I do think the general lovely culture and lack of professionalism and mentorship which the article also described played a part.

e: I mean, what did it say to the SWO community about priorities and professionalism when every other designator needs months of schooling to even begin to do their jobs but hey you guys, just show up on a ship after your butterbars are on, you'll be fine?

Stultus Maximus fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Dec 17, 2017

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
So first they go from 3 to 2 failures for ADSEP, now they go to unlimited? WTF?

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Wingnut Ninja posted:

Okay, clarify something for an ignorant aviator: on a five-and-dime watch rotation, does that mean that each individual person is standing watch every 5 hours in 15, or does that just mean that each duty section has to cover watches during that period, and individual people don't necessarily get a watch each time. Because if it's the former, I don't understand how a human being from the planet Earth could possibly think that's a good way to do business.

It's surface Navy. Of course it's 5 on and 10 off for everyone in the watch section.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Default Settings posted:

I don't quite understand how watch rotations still can be a topic today, by all rights it's something the British should have had figured out in the 1700s.

Funny thing about the watch rotations that the British figured out in the 1700s...

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Are the ones we still use. Because the Navy is stupid.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

LingcodKilla posted:

We use dog watches still?

We did as of ten years ago, dunno about now but surface Navy doesn't change much.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Nostalgia4Ass posted:

Start by Shanghaiing homeless in San Diego. Put them all in deck dept and I bet most wouldn't notice the difference.

I'm pretty sure that's how they recruit the yardworkers in Norfolk.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

LingcodKilla posted:

Seriously, getting a job in the shipyards as a helper, lowest of the low, takes nearly a year from start to finish.

Hell I still got an application in that I did in February.

Really? Either you're talking about the serious let's build a carrier yards like Newport News or things have really changed. Both times I was at Metro Machine, it was shady as gently caress. The "helpers" were getting fired daily for everything from safety violations to fighting to sleeping on the job and there was never a shortage of new ones.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

LingcodKilla posted:

This is Bremerton so i guess “lets refuel a submarine” is a bigger deal.

Yeah. Metro Machine did frigates and small deck amphibs. And anything involving frigates and amphibs is cut-rate and shady.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

orange juche posted:

I have no idea what the equivalent of a EP on a officer's fitrep is but if that dude didn't get one, the Navy has failed.

It is also EP.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

ManMythLegend posted:

That all said, the Chief's Mess can actually be a force multiplier that enables operations better then a bunch of disparate CPO's can. I just takes a lot of adult supervision by the CO and XO plus a CMC who gets it and makes the group work and not just be some dumb loving clubhouse.

Is this anything beyond theoretical?

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Goodpancakes posted:

Man the navy is weird. CO for a month, asleep in the bunk, get negligent homicide charges, take responsibility for systemic naval staffing and mission problems. I'm gonna guess its hard to get volunteers to captain a ship?

Nah, there is literally nothing else a career SWO can hope for.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Kawasaki Nun posted:

Montreal rules

Better stuck there than arriving in Mayport, really.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

ManMythLegend posted:

I missed this in a drunken stupor when it was posted, but it's 100% true.

For those curious, Command Pay is a whopping $50 a month.

Lol, that's less than I got for flight deck pay.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Wingnut Ninja posted:

That sounds like the "corned beef" we got for St. Patrick's Day, which was ground beef with a can of corn dumped into it. The Reagan's supply department left a lot to be desired, though I did appreciate the sheer cheek of that one.

jfc. When I was on the Reagan, the food was great. I know it did go downhill fast, I was on there for two days about a year later and it was pure crap.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
poo poo, if I were any good at eval writing I'd be an O5 by now.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May
Is the SM-6 really a capable ASCM or is it listed because the Navy desperately wants everyone to believe that the 1970s Harpoon isn't still our only ASUW weapon?

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

LingcodKilla posted:

A much more competent IS1 from my unit got a similar deal on the Vinson a few years back and cranked the whole time. It super turned off the command sending us on ships.

Your SEL really should be talking to their CMC and LCPO to make sure that doesn't happen again.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Mr. Nice! posted:

Reservists are often not very useful at their actual job but any body is useful as a mess crank.

KetTarma posted:

Most reservists I met had little knowledge of their own rate.


Yeah, there's a problem where if your contract that you sign with your recruiter doesn't include A school or C school, it's not funded and you aren't going. You get out of boot camp and sent to your first unit as an ET or OS or BM or whatever with literally no idea of what that actually entails.

That said, I never send that kind of sailor to a ship alone. I always make sure there are a few boots plus an experienced first class or chief so they actually learn something and become productive and everyone benefits. It doesn't benefit the reserves to get stuck as mess crankers and coffee bitches.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Nick Soapdish posted:

https://twitter.com/CraigMWhitlock/status/973281880874323969

That was such a loving mess with Admiral Branch not having a clearance but still holding the position of DNI

quote:

Although the Navy cited Branch for four counts of misconduct, it does not appear that it imposed any penalties.

In a Sept. 8, 2017, memo, Adm. Philip S. Davidson — the commander assigned by the Navy to hand out discipline in the “Fat Leonard” scandal — stated that he “personally addressed” the matter with Branch “through administrative action.”

That is language the Navy typically uses when counseling a sailor not to do something again. A Navy spokesman declined to comment.

gently caress the Navy.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Laranzu posted:

All he did was get involved in one of the biggest scandals in a long time resulting in not being able to do the job he was appointed to do for 5 years while still getting paid.

I guess not being able to touch Intel is its own punishment?

I'd like someone to punish me by paying me six figures not to do my job and then retire and half pay.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Sir Lucius posted:

Ah yes, the reserves. Good idea, give up my weekends and vacation hours so I can shave and do computer based training. I don't know why anyone would ever actually want to do this.

Cheaper insurance than through my job, and also the extra money lets me keep working at a place that I like instead of having to get a higher paying job somewhere I don't want to be.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

pkells posted:

Destroyer trip report:

How the gently caress do you guys live on a tiny cramped ship like that for months at a time? And how do you put up with such a crazy work schedule? I spent a month with the army last year in Puerto Rico living in a camp, and they seemed to have a better quality of life.

But the boat was cool, and my friend kept introducing this chief at the happy hour event afterwards as "an officer on the boat". Multiple people on the tour asked about whether or not they have nukes on board. I asked the 1Lt or whatever you call them how much BS they put up with getting the board ready for non-stop tours through their home for the past week. His smirk answered my question.

Destroyers aren't really that small or cramped. They aren't frigates or PCs, for example. Or old Cold War destroyers.
There is something to be said for warships, though vs Army camps. No marching, no hauling rucks full of poo poo, no MREs, actual beds, daily showers, regular hot meals.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

Mr. Nice! posted:

Well on one side of the line you have a residential area where people live. On the other side you have the industrial side of a naval shipyard. I mean it makes sense that one side would be more welcoming than the other.

San Diego's wet side/dry side looks exactly like that.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply