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AvesPKS posted:You shouldn't have to believe in vigorous religious conversion to understand the concept and empathize with someone caught in the dilemma the protagonist finds himself in. Anybody who's seen Orgasmo or one of a number of South Park episodes should understand proselytizing religion. Of course if the viewer didn't grow up with at least a passing familiarity with the concept then I concede that the movie loses the ability to resonate as much. The Founder may not resonate with a non-American as much as it does with someone who grew up seeing McDonald's all over the place, but you could still explain the concept to someone in about 5 minutes and they'd understand what the movie was about and the impact of Ray Kroc. I understand the dilemma the protagonist is in, but its more of an academic understanding. I myself have never experienced religious belief strong enough that I could ever imagine myself having that same dilemma though, because I would never consider my own religious beliefs to be "correct" to the point that I'd actively try to convert people. It's not a dilemma that I identify with.
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Apr 20, 2017 14:51
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It doesn't necessarily have to be a religious belief. You could write a similar story with a philosophical or moral stance at its core.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:23
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Samuel Clemens posted:It doesn't necessarily have to be a religious belief. You could write a similar story with a philosophical or moral stance at its core. I don't see those things as the same at all, but we're maybe getting close to the kind of debate that probably belongs in a different subforum.
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Apr 20, 2017 15:52
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Basebf555 posted:I don't see those things as the same at all, but we're maybe getting close to the kind of debate that probably belongs in a different subforum. But could you understand how someone else could? That's all the movie is asking you to do. I have no idea (other than in an academic sense) what shark or dinosaur attacks are like, or what it's like to be stuck on a spaceship all alone, but that doesn't diminish my ability to enjoy fiction that posits those scenarios. Basebf555 posted:I understand the dilemma the protagonist is in, but its more of an academic understanding. I myself have never experienced religious belief strong enough that I could ever imagine myself having that same dilemma though, because I would never consider my own religious beliefs to be "correct" to the point that I'd actively try to convert people. It's not a dilemma that I identify with. Imagine that religion was as real and concrete to you as water or air. I feel like everybody has a line, past which behavior that is unacceptable will get called out. Whether it's a close line, like cussing, or far off like murder, or something relatively mundane like using clean water, most people have some knowledge or perspective to impart on others which they believe will improve the lives of those around them. If you saw some kids drinking from a muddy stagnant pond, you might want to recommend that they use the water fountain (or you might not, but somebody would). And if there were an entire country in this predicament, you might want to tell the whole country.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:10
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AvesPKS posted:Imagine that religion was as real and concrete to you as water or air. I feel like everybody has a line, past which behavior that is unacceptable will get called out. Whether it's a close line, like cussing, or far off like murder, or something relatively mundane like using clean water, most people have some knowledge or perspective to impart on others which they believe will improve the lives of those around them. If you saw some kids drinking from a muddy stagnant pond, you might want to recommend that they use the water fountain (or you might not, but somebody would). And if there were an entire country in this predicament, you might want to tell the whole country. I really have a hard time doing that. It just goes so much against what I've believed my entire adult life that its very difficult to put myself in that headspace. And I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the movie, I did. I just didn't react the same way as others might if they have different beliefs than I do.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:14
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The burden is still on the movie to convey that state of ecstatic religious belief, which movies are plenty capable of (see Andrei Rublev, or Scorsese's own Kundun)
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Apr 20, 2017 18:36
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:The burden is still on the movie to convey that state of ecstatic religious belief, which movies are plenty capable of (see Andrei Rublev, or Scorsese's own Kundun) Staunchly held religious beliefs don't have to be ecstatic in nature. In fact, they can be downright mundane. (I'm looking at you, Lutheran services). I was going to say you're more looking for an epiphany, but the character does have an epiphany so I dunno. "Oh yeah, life goes on / long after the thrill of speaking in tongues is gone"
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Apr 20, 2017 19:48
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