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Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Signal posted:

People get really invested in the campaign progression of NecroMordheim, and that's one thing that Infinity doesn't really have.

Even though it suffered from the blood bowl problem of teams being basically gutted and not worth keeping, and runaway leaders...

Other games not doing campaign systems didn't make these ones good

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Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Those Goliaths ooze character. NM stuff looked so cool back in the day. I remember really wanting to buy some Ratskins to go with my Cawdor and Orlocks.

Terrible rules obviously, but I was a kid and better games were rare

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Also I am totally on board with the idea that infinity can be fiddly with a lot of rules and edge cases. But you're comparing a game where your force is 5-10 models to loving 40k.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Post them!

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Choose is certainly great for NM/Bloodbowl/whatever. You don't need more RNG on top of the RNG you get with your RNG.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

JcDent posted:

The random thing is necessary when some skills are definitely much better than others, so without the randomness, everyone would eventually start slinging The Optimal Loadout.

Granted, my orcs are all working towards Guard and or Block even with the random tables...

That's a fudge for having unbalanced skills but yeah

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Those BB models look pretty sweet.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Insane to want it in Necromunda, though.

I have to say those new Goliaths look amazing!

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Dreadball is a good example of how to remove turnovers. Instead of risk management it focuses on positioning and trying to roll fire, but had to switch to a very different scoring system to accommodate that.

Anyway, turnovers make blood bowl what it is, but that's not to say it's perfect. It's a swingy dice game where with just moderately poor rolling you can have a miserable experience and if you're starting a league, quite easily get to the point where your team is fatally weakened and you may as well start a new team. This can be fine for a table top game - unless it's taking you hours - but it definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea and some of that is basically because it's still clearly 80s gently caress-you design in many ways.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Lord_Hambrose posted:

I will definitely agree that Blood Bowl might not be for everyone, but I think you are missing the fact that Blood Bowl is interesting. The thrill of a very poorly conceived play with almost no chance of working succeeding against your world crushing Orc opponents can't be beat. Embracing the horrific bad luck is just part of the fun.

I wanted to like Space Basketball, but it just felt so cold and dead. I have started getting into Guild Ball because I really like the idea of sports boardgames but it is mainly it is just a fun version of War Machine. Blood Bowl loses a lot if you are not playing in a league which is one of the main strengths.

There is a reason Blood Bowl had a continuous, fanatical following for years with no official support.

Interesting and "very low odds play coming off" are practically diametrically opposed.

I don't hate blood bowl, I played a bunch of the TT version, a bunch of fumbbl (the best format), and some of the horrifically annoying videogame. But while rolling with the punches is a skill you need to have, games can still be one sided and crippling for league progression through no fault of the player.

I mean sure everyone gets bad luck but it's not actually that fun to be losing dudes and having short turns while your opponent runs all over you, which can happen thanks to the mechanics making a numerical advantage absolutely brutal in certain match ups.

It was hugely popular for so long because, like Epic, it was excellent for its time, was produced and promoted by the biggest name in the business, and had a low barrier to entry.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Oh, I'm definitely not trying to claim it's entirely random, that player skill and experience doesn't matter, and that the last player is only there because of bad luck.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Safety Factor posted:

Elven Union on the way. Finally. :v:


Chubby elves best elves

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

That's really cool.

Unlike Shadespire, which I demoed in Essen and was an awful experience.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

bonds0097 posted:

How come? I've been really enjoying it and it's quite popular locally already.

The demo was really poo poo for a variety of reasons but mostly "ok I charge in this guy and roll some dice and you roll a die to try and defend and well you didn't roll right so now a third of your force is gone" really was the highlight. The power cards were underwhelming and in most cases useless on the back foot too.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Hmm. I'd say in a game that has objectives you need to control, losing people is a big deal, and upgrade cards can be character specific so you're potentially losing a heap of options on the outcome of a single die roll.

Anyway I accept that a single demo game doesn't beat the experience of playing multiple full games but holy poo poo was that a dreadful first impression. Given how many great games were at Essen it was incredibly jarring.

Even the Batman game felt better than that, and that's a game that thinks it's a really good idea to remove your options at every turn.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

bonds0097 posted:

I think the game gives you a lot of ways to play and you'll see that if you play more. Also, it's not a single die roll because none of the Sigmar dudes can be One-shot by the only other warband in the game right now, you would have had to have been hit (fail a die roll), then fail to kill your attacker (fail another die roll) and then get hit again (fail another die roll) and most likely (unless it was garrek or saek) you had twice the chance of succeeding than your enemy did in each of those three cases.

That doesn't sound right. You can definitely do 4 damage in a round of combat given you can roll multiple hits (and from memory, have >1 damage per hit) which is further boosted by power cards.

If you can counter attack after the first hit rolled then that was a crucial detail left out by the guy teaching us...

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Haha, nice. Yeah the guy teaching us definitely told us to do it that way, but he was really low energy and awful in other ways too.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Congrats on the weight loss!

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

JcDent posted:

Broke lore: taking in born killer human dregs and training them up to be defenders of humanity and virtue
Woke lore: having defenders of Holy Terra take blunt stupid names and die almost to a man while fighting SMART SOPHISTICATED ORKS LOL

Wait what's the second one

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Is mini geddon still the only smaller epic variant? I don't have the time or space for full battles these days.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Winklebottom posted:

nah, they previewed the Cawdor Executioner with a hood in '18, then removed it before release



Hoods AND nooses, no less.

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Virtual Russian posted:

I really don't care for this pose and just see it everywhere in GW stuff.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1546905723157811203

Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

Wow apparently Kill Team Shadowvaults is such a massive success in the UK GW cant fulfill all pre-orders from how sold out it is.

I would still very much reccomend nobody fall for FOMO until the rest of the gallowdark is announced and we get a clear sense if the terrain will change or not.

Is the terrain the big draw? The minis are gorgeous, but the Space Hulk terrain does not do it for me at all.

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Thirsty Dog
May 31, 2007

Xlorp posted:

Warmaster question as I think there's a discrepancy on the Warmaster Army Selector.

Monsters that must be at least badly hurt in one round in order to have the damage stick. In the basic book, we have
Khemri: Sphinx 6 hits. 3-5 hits in one rounds cause it to be badly hurt.
Orc: Giant 8 hits. 4-7 hits in one round cause it to be badly hurt.
Elf: Dragon Rider 6 hits. 3-5 hits in one round cause it to be badly hurt.

Lizardmen Stegadon 10 hits. The text in the program indicated 6-9 hits in one round cause it to be badly hurt, which is 1 hit more than the pattern has been up to this point.
I think this should be 5-9 hits.

Yes this came up in the Sunday game. Fortunately I rolled high enough driveback to make the question moot.

The Living Rulebook rules say 5-9. Warmaster Armies (GW) says 6-9. Warmaster Revolution army list says 6-9. I don't play Warmaster, was just curious - perhaps it's because a Stegadon is a giant armoured lizard? :-)

quote:

Because the Stegadon has so many hits we must consider
the possibility of hurting the beast and reducing its
effectiveness. Therefore, if a Stegadon has accumulated 6-9
hits by the end of the Shooting or Combat phase and is no
longer engaged in combat it is deemed to have been badly
hurt. Once a Stegadon is badly hurt all accumulated hits are
discounted and its Hits and Attack values are halved for the
remainder of the battle to 5/2 Attacks and 5 Hits.

https://www.wm-revolution.com/articles/download.html

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