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Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed. |
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183 | 49.06% |
| No |
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190 | 50.94% |
| Total: | 328 votes | ||
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Trick question. Nazis aren't people.
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Jan 22, 2017 13:33
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 15:36 |
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Okay gently caress it this topic is a piece of poo poo anyway so I'll  it up.When the gently caress did you Pure Leftists™ become such loving pussies? You were uncompromising in your beliefs leading up to the election, but now with protests and Nazis being punched you're suddenly clutching your pearls. What the gently caress happened? Did your balls drop? EDIT: I assume you're leftists cause if not then you're a Nazi supporter in which case go gently caress yourself.
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Jan 22, 2017 13:38
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ugh drat that was bad. nvm sa, have some funny videos of nazi being punched which is funny because more people don't punch nazis even though we really should and it has good music https://twitter.com/prttybadtweeter/status/822620848897069056 https://twitter.com/JordanFreiman/status/822600697560625154
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Jan 22, 2017 13:46
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Deep Thought posted:Yes their balls dropped. They're adults now and don't go for the 'I must be a stong man because I endorse violence by proxy' thing. its like looking into a shitposting kaleidoscope goddamn dude
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Jan 22, 2017 20:51
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AARO posted:You said it was justified to inflict violence on him for what he thinks. Are you changing your mind now and saying it's only ok to do violence against people who "call for" X? when people call for the dehumanization and genocide of other people and turn it into their sociopolitical platform? HELL YEAH I loving DO That's what you X is in that example. please remember that. it's not something up in the air, it's Literal Nazi rhetoric
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Jan 22, 2017 20:53
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on the left posted:I for one look forward to an America where certain minority groups are OK to murder with a speech to the jury about jury nullification and a wink and a nod. AARO posted:In the USA in the 1950's a man who openly said he was gay could very easily get punched in the face by any white Christian male onlooker. Even it it wasn't legal to punch this man for his mere act of saying he was gay, I'm sure large parts of 1950's America would have said the assault was moral. sigh okay No. No we should not do that. The issue with Nazism is that it is a philosophy anchored in hatred. There is nothing to talk about because Nazis aren't in it for the talking. Talking is a means to an end, either to get into a fight or to gain power. The only way to deal with Nazis is to shame and marginalize them until finally introspection kicks in, because that's the only way they'll ever stop being Nazis. When you tolerate Nazi intolerance, you are actually enabling these people. That's not me btw, that's how the FBI talks about how hate groups operate. Now granted they don't advocate punching Nazis in the face, but they don't explicitly say you can't punch Nazis in the face so...
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Jan 22, 2017 22:04
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:yeah i was going to make another post about this but the popehat article about it pretty much summarized my feelings on the issue concern_trolling.txt Also dramatically misunderstanding how hate groups operate. But I repeat myself.
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Jan 23, 2017 02:11
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Rodatose posted:The whole point of nazism/fascism is that life is eternal conflict and that only a state which exercises systemic violence for its own gain can succeed. BTW this poster isn't being flowery, this is literally the raison d'etre of Nazis and hate groups. Like the actual dictionary definition of literally, not the internet usage. Like I dunno how you guys are disagreeing with this, it's not "their opinions are lovely and should be debated" it's "their opinions are simply a dogwhistle to commit violence". that's it. Period. White nationalist are worse than other hate groups because of how powerful being white is in society. So they have to constantly find new targets to victimize or else the whole self-reflection kicks in. So they'll start finding other excuses for attacking people (you may be white but you're a race mixer so down you go). You cannot reason with them because they don't use reason it's not the point. Please stop standing up for nazis it's not gonna be good times
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Jan 23, 2017 03:25
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Hogge Wild posted:Here's what Lowtax has to say about this: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3806778&userid=27691 loving hell lowtax quote:Again, nobody has been able to answer my question I've posed repeatedly. What type of violence should be acceptable? Is just punching allowed, or can we kick? Hit them with a brick? Break their legs? Put them into a coma? Hit them with a car? Murder them? Then, who determines if the victim was evil enough to justify the assault? How does a government agency regulate and objectively define where the line is regarding beliefs that should be punishable by assault? Okay fine since apparently this is actually a serious talking point. No obv don't kill the dumbshits, but usual bar room brawl antics are perfectly acceptable. BTW I'd say the same thing about the New Black Panthers, about Al Queda or any other Actual Hate Group of your choice. Nazis are just especially bad because they have more power than other hate groups and they are more volatile than other hate groups. You do not debate hate groups. You do not debate members of hate groups. You show them that their bullshit is not okay in any way possible. Reason does not work on them because they explicitly reject reason as part of their world view. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 05:09
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Hogge Wild posted:Could you explain in your own words what you think that "battle" and "fascism" mean. goddamn you post like a little bitch
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Jan 23, 2017 23:38
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quote:Do you think it's cool to punch a communist in the face when you see them in public? Or for someone to punch a known anti-war activist for being a traitor to the country? Is a pro-life bomber justified in bombing an abortion clinic because, in their eyes, a baby holocaust is happening? Is Joseph Paul Franklin a heroic figure for shooting and paralyzing known scumbag and pornographer Larry Flynt for showcasing interracial sex in his magazine? You're comparing apples and oranges here because, and I re-iterate, the Nazis are a hate group so the don't abide by societal laws. Like even in their perfect ubermensch future, there would still be Nazis saying "well you know maybe you're not the right kind of white" because, and I say again, they're a hate group.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:49
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:For some reason the democrats keep wanting to ban my assault rifle. Perhaps they are "fash apologia"? So who here has been "bashing" prominent government officials? dont stop im almost there
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Jan 24, 2017 03:32
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Call Me Charlie posted:Are you cool with this line of thought if it said communist instead of nazi? 1) Nazis and communists are not strict philosophical opposites; one has nationalism and racial supremacy baked into its philosophy while the other does not. 2) Are you talking about a particular communist hate group that is calling for genocide of other groups? In which case yes, absolutely. If not, then you're being disingenuous. Because, as I will keep repeating, Nazis are a hate group
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Jan 24, 2017 03:36
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Frankly the dude deserved to be punched because of his loving hair
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Jan 24, 2017 23:42
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He did the whole Heil Hitler thing, that's close enough imo
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Jan 24, 2017 23:49
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Trabisnikof posted:I found a Nazi! Punch it! It even has SS in its name! Sadly I got my name from Megaman Battle Network. I'm not a Nazi but a nerd 
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Jan 25, 2017 01:01
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Rodatose posted:Are wedgies of people who post meme frogs morally justified? We should wedgie all dipshit nerds really. If you don't then that's how you get Republicans. see Paul Ryan the Randroid? A good Atomic Wedgie would fix that problem right quick. We'd have universal healthcare in no time.
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Jan 25, 2017 03:50
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Okay so to all the bleeding heart pearl clutchers, where should we draw the line? Are wedgies okay? Because I am very pro Nazi Wedgie Caucus. I hope that's not too extreme of a solution to an infamous hate group and you will consider this point seriously 
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Jan 25, 2017 10:51
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enki42 posted:Yeah sure, just toss in "stage coup of America" in between your 10:00 nazi punching and 12:00 dentist appointment. Now you're getting it 
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Jan 25, 2017 13:52
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FreeKillB posted:I guess the ACLU counts as Nazi collaborators then. The ACLU takes radical stances on free speech, which is fine, but I certainly don't agree with their decision in this case.
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Jan 26, 2017 04:37
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I dont think you know how real nazis worked. *checks post* *checks username* ... well ill be damned
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Jan 26, 2017 22:00
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MeLKoR posted:Case in point: im glad of it
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Jan 26, 2017 22:30
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FreeKillB posted:Trump said protestors at his rallies should be roughed up. This means that he wants Democrats to be afraid of disruptive political speech in the specific context of Trump rallies. (e: Note that political speech that is disruptive of others' political expression is tautologically not a universal right. Violence against protestors is, of course, bad.) 1) Actually Republicans are doing this 2) This logic isn't valid for members of hate groups who dogwhistle (or otherwise call) for genocide and ethinic cleansing. Pseudo-God posted:Due process, what's that? It's easy to justify your political violence when you feel you are doing it for a righteous cause, but do we really want to live in a society where we feel justified in attacking our fellow citizens based on the perceived assessment of their character? It is entirely possible for an individual to be smeared in public and then mobbed to death by a group that thinks it is doing the right thing, or for someone's words to be taken out of context and then it becomes open season. And if they try to defend their words, who is gonna listen to a Nazi anyway? They are not just political opponents. Like I wouldn't say "punch Mike Pence" even though I hate the gently caress, but I will totally call for bashing the fash because they are a hate group Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 07:58
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FreeKillB posted:If by "this" you mean "calling to curtail all political speech of Democrats in all public contexts", I'm going to ask for something in the way of example. By Republicans, do you mean Republican officeholders, average Republican voters, or specific extremists lying within the Republican base? I will be shocked if it's the first, surprised if it's the second, and underwhelmed if it's the third. In the context I was talking about generic Republicans, who are not all neo-Nazis. "Free Speech Zones" Gonna be all the rage in a month or two!! Keeshhound posted:You're curious because you obviously never so much as spoken with one in the past or actually read their writings with the intent to understand. Ah now we're getting somewhere. Are you absolutely sure these perfect pacifists were really that perfect or are you perhaps just believing in a white-washed version of their lives? Cause despite calling for a peaceful revolt, MLK does not meet your standards.
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Jan 27, 2017 08:18
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FreeKillB posted:"Free Speech Zones" aren't a new development. I remember a lot of buzz about their use in the Bush administration, and while I agree that they have a stifling effect on political protests, matters were still MILES away from "Calling for all political speech of all Democrats to be curtailed in all public contexts ", i.e., de facto complete supression of the entire Democratic party. So those are not a slippery slope but punching members of a hate group is? Do you get why I keep bolding that bit? It's because everyone is framing this as a difference of political opinions and it's totally not. There is nothing political about calling for the deaths of members of a race, no mater how much the side calling for it is trying to say it is. If you say otherwise, you're buying into their false rhetoric. I really should never have engaged with you on the political side of this tbh. This has nothing to do with democrats, republicans, Trump or whatever. Nazis deserve to be punched and otherized based on their beliefs alone. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 08:33
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Pseudo-God posted:It's like you people have no sense of nuance or proportion. Like I said, your response to adversity should be proportional to the threat posed. This is why we have BLM protests in the US today, and why it is justified to kill a Nazi when he presents a credible threat to your life. No reasonable person would go and tell the Jews at the Warsaw Uprising that "you guys should just chill, don't you know that killing your enemies is wrong?". *puts on sunglasses* the whiteness...its blinding...
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Jan 27, 2017 18:06
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Maybe the truth is... somewhere in the middle... *whiteness envelops everything in 200 km radius*
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Jan 27, 2017 22:29
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Condiv posted:http://www.king5.com/news/local/seattle/victim-of-uw-protest-shooting-releases-statement/391635124 p sure that dude was being sarcastic, but that link is cool 
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Jan 28, 2017 09:44
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quote:"everyone with nazi-like ideals I'm actually saying this, soz bro. If you advocate for genocide you deserve a hit. Keeshhound posted:It actually is, but if you'd like to insist otherwise, would you mind composing an argument to that effect instead of just calling me a nazi for disagreeing with you? Because I'd love to be convinced to see things your way; it seems like a much simpler, and less stressful way to view the world. Well for starters Nazism doesn't have a consistent political agenda besides the whole hypernationalism and crypto-/not-so-crypto-genocidal rhetoric. Ask three modern day nazis what they'd like to see from the government and they'd probably respond with three different opinions. They'll prob say some leftist ideals (more jobs for families, tax breaks for families, gun control and so on) or some right-wing points (more unified country, no flag burning, incentives for businesses, no gun control and so on). We take for granted that Nazis are right wing, but that's not totally true. The modern Neo-nazis have thrown their lot with the Republicans because FOR SOME REASON that party resonates most with the aforementioned hypernationalism and crypto-/not-so-crypto-genocidal rhetoric. Past that point, it's a case-by-case basis on whether they agree with the rest of the Republicans stances. Because they are not a political party, but a hate group. They are tied together by a mutual hatred of their opponents. Once that stops tying them, the group would quickly dissolve into massive infighting because they really don't agree with each other beyond that point. Repblicans have been courting these sort of groups since the era of southern strategy, and that's why they've shifted right and got such a bad rep outside the US center. This has given them a lot more voting power, but has given them a muddled, anti-middle class, far right platform. That said, the Republicans are an actual party because they do in fact have a platform, such as it is. Hate groups do not. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jan 29, 2017 |
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Jan 29, 2017 05:59
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Keeshhound posted:It's happened as recently as two pages ago. I'm glad that that's not your position, but it's patently disingenuous to pretend that people arguing against the use of political violence haven't been accused of being nazi sympathizers. read the rest of the thread im tired of addressing this point Keeshhound posted:That's literally all it takes to be a political movement. One issue. There are a bunch of articles on the major news sites where people interviewed members of the women's march and found that in the same way, you could ask three different marchers what their political views were and they'd give three different answers. If we go to a DSA meeting, I guarantee you we're going to find a mix of ideological views, all of whom are united only by a specific set of issues that they feel are worth compromising their other stances to achieve. Even ignoring that that, a mix of liberal and conservative values is what's meant to be fascism's appeal, anyway (historically it was sold as a third way, in opposition to capitalism and communism.) I don't buy your argument because there is nothing political about genocide come the gently caress on dude
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Jan 29, 2017 20:03
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Keeshhound posted:"Ugh. Punch Nazi. Nazi run away, find other nazis. Nazis not like puncher. Hide from puncher. Nazis look for kid. Steal kid. Teach kid to be Nazi. No Punch Nazi. It no help. Find kid. Protect kid from Nazis. Teach kid to be good person. No New Nazis. Nazis die off." read this part a few times and try and see if you can find your own logical break. If you cannot I'll rerun an answer yet again
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Jan 29, 2017 20:12
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I noticed you punked out on my responses. Okay. Nazis crave attention and they crave conflict that they can win. When you make them look bad and marginalize them, you force them to, as you put it, "go into hiding". Without any outlet for their violence, they inevitably turn into introspection. This works for any hate group under the sun, be they Nazis, Al Queda, whatever. That's the part where the Nazi goes "poo poo I guess I suck" and seeks out ways to not be a Nazi. So sayeth the FBI: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/fbi/7stage_hate_model.htm Get it? Being able to commit violence is the only way these groups can function, once you other them to the degree that they cannot appear in polite society, they fall apart. Now yeah, you are right that obviously uniting entire towns against Nazis would be fantastic and obv doing the whole "mentoring kids" thing would be great too. gently caress it, lemme show you your logical breaks since you can't do it yourself. quote:Nazis look for kid. Steal kid. Teach kid to be Nazi. lmao at this. Nazis never steal kids, they simply create a rhetoric which kids can find heroic and appealing. When you live in a red state, you inevitably pick up certain preconceptions about minorities, which leads you to be more susceptible towards hate group logic. And if you go looking for them, you'll find kindred spirits. Nazis don't use the Ludovico device, they simply press the buttons that parents/society imprinted on kids. quote:Find kid. Protect kid from Nazis. Teach kid to be good person So I like the enthusiasm here and I even agree with it, but you're gonna have a hell of a hard time doing this since the kids in your quote are "all of the ones who live in white societies, especially the rural areas". Obviously motivating towns to show support against hate groups is more productive than punching and obviously I support mentoring. But, you're asking people to "protect" kids from rhetoric that has been around for centuries. It's naive and unrealistic. If you can help and you can motivate groups to help, sure do so, but actions like punching Nazis and othering them also helps to destroy their allure. Look at Spencer now, he looks like a sore loser and people are making fun of him. He's not convincing people to join the alt-right, or at least nobody who wasn't already gonna join. That's what othering Nazis looks like and that's why bashing the fash does hep the situation. Like I get what you're saying "mentorship and understanding is more productive than punching" but dude that's some white sage wisdom that only partially works in our society. The only way you could post something even more white and naive is if you say "we should sit down with Nazis/alt-right and convince them that their points are invalid" Keeshhound posted:I guess that's the real issue, isn't it? Doing poo poo that's effective is hard. Punching people is easy. No, I don't care if it actually helps anything, I just want to feel better. I really hate tearing down plugs for good causes but this is like listening to Hallmark preach about paying money to enhance emotional moments.
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Jan 29, 2017 21:56
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They are not a loving political group stop saying they are.quote:when you use physical violence against them you are implicitly saying "I cannot debate you, so I must use violence to silence you." You're giving up. Sure. I guess you can see it that way because you cannot debate the loving Nazis. Why are you dying on this stupid hill? Why do you continue to insist the Nazis are a political group? How the gently caress do you justify the "politics" of genocide? I hate asking such loaded questions but you keep insisting that Nazism is something we can argue or teach away. quote:If you need an example of this, look no further than the incident that kicked this latest round of discussion off; Richard Spencer gets punched in the face. Twice. Has it actually quieted his message? He's still spewing the same poo poo, and doesn't appear remotely afraid of retaliation. In fact, he's doing everything he can to use it to paint leftists as violent idiots. He's turned those punches into a recruiting tool. I'd argue the opposite. He lost a lot of respect in his circles and he is now afraid. Mission accomplished. His followers are now ashamed of him and I expect white supremacists to start distancing themselves away from him. quote:What the gently caress are you even talking about? "Encouraging people to volunteer for noble causes in lieu of joining my call for violence MUST come from an insincere place?" Jesus, dude, look at yourself. I'm not saying that. I'm saying using noble causes to support your kum-bah-yah argument for the loving Nazis naive and insincere. I have no doubt the program does good work but you're fighting against a culture which is predisposed to rhetoric that Nazis feed on. You need a lot more than ONE KID AT A TIME Lifetime moments, especially since now the Nazis have a way to legitimately mobilize in the public sphere. Rodatose posted:individual effort for teaching the next generation is nothing put up against whoever has most influence on media and the education system, who reach more kids This is actually a good point too. Publicized antics like Nazi punching reach more people rather than debates on the merits of not killing minorities.
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Jan 30, 2017 00:59
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Keeshhound posted:They're a political group. We fundamentally disagree on this point. So I dunno, we're at an impasse. I disagree with the base of your assertion and I disagree with your slippery slopes. thread tell me, what do? I'm still pro-Nazi punching btw.
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Jan 30, 2017 03:19
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So tell me Kesshound, are GamerGate a political group? Where do we draw the line? Where do we draw the line I say???
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Jan 30, 2017 03:22
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Kesshound walks through a kindergarden class "okay now that we're in groups, let's talk about the newest book, the Hungry, Hungry Caterpillar. Which group will start on page 1?" He suddenly freezes and points a jittery finger at the source of the voice "I DISAGREE WITH YOUR INTOLERANT POLITICS! SURELY IF WE LET THIS DIVISION CONTINUE WE WILL ALL BE FRUIT!!!" EDIT: soz forgot you're against violence. Uhhhh kay. He runs away screaming about society before starting a foundation to help all children fight off the specter of fruit. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jan 30, 2017 |
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Jan 30, 2017 03:24
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:some pretty solid debate & discussion itt Your side is trying to convince us that genocide is a political position. I do not, and cannot, accept it. We're uh kinda done discussing. yeah yeah inb4 im the intolerant liberal or whatever the gently caress
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Jan 30, 2017 03:28
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owns
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Jan 30, 2017 03:34
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Legit waiting for remixes And also everyone else's hot takes before I reveal the twist
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Jan 30, 2017 03:35
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 15:36 |
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when the socialists violated the NAP, I did nothing for it was the will of the free market bitch
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Jan 30, 2017 04:35
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