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Angepain posted:It's also worth mentioning that painting feminists as humourless and unable to feel joy is a big part of how anti-feminists promote their cause Also not new. "Suffragettes are ugly" and "Suffragettes are all bitchy" were also pretty strong messages for why women should not be given voting rights. edit: image links didn't work. Owlofcreamcheese fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 23:38
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504 posted:Feminism has been completely hijacked by attention seeking SJW's that scream about completely meaningless nothings and then get OUTRAGED when the general population does not give a poo poo. Ten minutes later the topic is dropped and never mentioned again as the next OUTRAGE has happened. 
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Jan 23, 2017 23:38
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504 posted:Feminism has been completely hijacked by attention seeking SJW's that scream about completely meaningless nothings and then get OUTRAGED when the general population does not give a poo poo. Ten minutes later the topic is dropped and never mentioned again as the next OUTRAGE has happened. This has been the caricature of feminism for longer than the word "feminism" has existed.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This thread will be people just unironically posting their anti-women opinions by the third page. 504 posted:Feminism has been completely hijacked by attention seeking SJW's that scream about completely meaningless nothings and then get OUTRAGED when the general population does not give a poo poo. Ten minutes later the topic is dropped and never mentioned again as the next OUTRAGE has happened. Off by two pages.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:40
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told you it was optimistic.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Also not new. Or my favorite, the "watch out, that suffragette knows jiu-jitsu!"
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Jan 23, 2017 23:43
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The development of a suffragette one is downright creeper town.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:45
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Cease to Hope posted:This has been the caricature of feminism for longer than the word "feminism" has existed. 
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Jan 23, 2017 23:47
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You could just title this "SWJ" and reprint this 100% unchanged and it'd fit in with zero question with the anti-feminist crowd.  It's weird how in 100+ years the arguements against women's rights never stray from 1) they are ugly and grumpy. 2) they think they are soooo great. 3) They are actually devils in disguise
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Jan 23, 2017 23:56
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Nah, things are massively different now. We've moved on as a society. Some of the women in the first row would have dyed hair and some piercings. One of them would have part of their head shaved.
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Jan 23, 2017 23:59
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Cease to Hope posted:Nobody of consequence is against the mere existence of (cis) women for obvious reasons. No, but different women can and will disagree on what is good for the whole. Men do that all the time, women do as well. Women are a large group of people, probably the largest subgroup of humanity there is, so if feminism is defined as just "what women are interested in" the ideology would implode from the internal contradictions inherent in representing the interests of over 3 billion people. Fortunately, that's not how feminism is represented, at least for the most part, as I know it feminism just refers to the pursuit of equality between sexes, a definition that any every sane non-rear end in a top hat person I've met, man or woman, identifies with. A few months ago I would have written this off as a useless topic, but recent developments suggest that a huge amount of women absolutely do not see feminism as a fight for sex equality, like at all. I'd bet a lot of those people never bothered to give it a chance, but I also personally know a few who did and had really negative experiences as a result of their attempts to get involved. Its been hard to wrap my head around that, as I had a great experience where my husband and I joined the club and got some serious poo poo done and were accepted in spite of our sexuality. But I can't project that experience on everyone, or pretend my own experience erases those of friends and family who wanted to support equality but got stuck with groups that were commercial or petty or dishonest. I need a response to those people, a real one. Not empty hostility, not a link to a half-baked buzzfeed article or angry webcomic that boils down to "agree with us or go gently caress yourself" and not unfounded accusations created to shut down any conversation. Basically I need to affirm what the ideal is to people who have not been fortunate enough to share my experiences. Like my stepmother, who is more or less the kind of person you would already consider to be a feminist, but whose intro to women's studies class was wrapped in indiosyncratic alternative history that she wasn't allowed to question. I still think she's a feminist - she doesn't take poo poo from men and taught her daughters the same, discouraging them from just accepting patriarchal roles and pushing them to get whatever education they wanted - but she would never call herself a feminist since she has such a bad impression of them. I think we'd all agree there is no harm whatsoever in making factual critiques of a feminist, but some people have experiences that lead them to believe otherwise. They would be right to be turned away by such an experience too, not only is there no harm in turning feminism into a dialogue (provided the goal is still equality), feminism has to be a dialogue to account for different groups and to evolve with changes in society. The movement is currently evolving it's views on trans people, for example. Anyway to go back to your question, OP, I don't know how you would even quantify the sort of split in the feminism that you're talking about. I also don't think it can be "resolved" per se, I think there will always be some level of dialogue going on here throughout the course of our lifetimes. That said, there's still a lot of value in sending out a clear message so if you're worried about this sort of thing your best bet is to focus on productive action towards affirmative rights, as those are much more focused and more challenging to misrepresent relative to something like vague pop-culture critiques. It's tougher to misread a movement fighting for the rights of sex-trafficking victims compared to a blogger upset over a lovely stupid batman video-game or something. Bifner McDoogle fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 00:03
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Angepain posted:Nah, things are massively different now. We've moved on as a society. Some of the women in the first row would have dyed hair and some piercings. One of them would have part of their head shaved. 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:05
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If the demeanor of an activist matters to you at all then it's the activist you care more about than what they're advocating.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:14
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Actually no wait, way more this one: 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:15
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Mississippi State Senator Chris McDaniel(R) posted:So a group of unhappy liberal women marched in Washington DC. We shouldn't be surprised; almost all liberal women are unhappy. Perhaps there's a correlation.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:18
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Actually no wait, way more this one: those last three look hella cool to hang out with actually 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:19
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Actually no wait, way more this one: Woman on the lower right embracing the one, true sitting style, I see.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:20
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Deified Data posted:If the demeanor of an activist matters to you at all then it's the activist you care more about than what they're advocating. I think you'll find that the deameanour of an activist is closely bound up in what they are advocating: Ghandi and M.L.K spring to mind
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Jan 24, 2017 00:22
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Male tears. Teach men not to rape. Manspreading. Mansplaining. Hillary Clinton. I just mentioned a couple of things that the modern feminist movement has allowed to spread around. Those issues and many more are part of the reason that so many are against what they see as the current face of feminism. Feminists were trying desperately to get the movie 'The Red Pill', a documentary by a woman about the mens rights movement, removed from theaters. James rolfe made this video about why he would not see the new ghostbusters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz8X2A7wHyQ He was quickly attacked as a mysoginist by feminists who say any criticism of the movie as misogynistic. http://heatst.com/entertainment/angry-video-game-nerd-james-rolfe-will-be-right-about-ghostbusters-being-terrible/ From https://areomagazine.com/2016/12/29/why-i-no-longer-identify-as-a-feminist/ " A Western liberal feminist can, on the same day, take part in a slut walk to protest Western women being judged by their clothing and accuse anyone criticizing the niqab of Islamophobia. She can demand the prosecution of a Christian baker for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same sex-couple, and condemn the planning of a Gay Pride march through a heavily Muslim area as racist. Many intersectional feminists do not limit themselves to the criticism of other white, Western feminists but pour vitriolic, racist abuse on liberal Muslim and ex-Muslim feminists and LGBT activists. The misogyny and homophobia of Christianity may be criticized by all (quite rightly) but the misogyny and homophobia of Islam by none, not even Muslims. The right to criticize one’s own culture and religion is seemingly restricted to white westerners."
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Jan 24, 2017 00:27
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:I think you'll find that the deameanour of an activist is closely bound up in what they are advocating: Ghandi and M.L.K spring to mind They spring to your mind on some dumb 3rd grade civics class idea that those two were "nonviolent" so that must mean they did everything very politely. Both did all kinds of things that were illegal and inconvenienced people. They also said 'mean things' about groups you might belong to. They are the exact sort of people in the modern day that people would have been posting all the same "they are just a bunch of college liberals making a scene" stuff about.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:34
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:I think you'll find that the deameanour of an activist is closely bound up in what they are advocating: Ghandi and M.L.K spring to mind 
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Jan 24, 2017 00:40
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I for one am very angry that feminism is demanding we blame rapists for rape instead of rape victims
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Jan 24, 2017 00:43
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:They spring to your mind on some dumb 3rd grade civics class idea that those two were "nonviolent" so that must mean they did everything very politely. Alright, Malcolm X and Hitler then..... Anyway, my point went to what is seemingly a dearth of inspirational rhetoric or clear policy agenda from the figureheads of the feminist movement, thats all.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:47
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Pharohman777 posted:Those issues and many more are part of the reason that so many are against what they see as the current face of feminism. Now, why are these things what they see as the current face of feminism? It's not because it's the entire output of the Official UN Agency For What Feminism Is, for one thing.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:48
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Alright, Malcolm X and Hitler then..... Well of course if your entire knowledge of feminism, their rhetoric and policy agenda comes from anti-feminist memes, you'll find them lacking. The thing is, you ought to educate yourself on feminism using actual sources in order to comprehend what feminism is about, and what feminists are actually doing. This is done by reading books, or Wikipedia articles if you're poor. It would prevent you from posting such shameful posts. EDIT: something you could do is to read the feminist thread in the subforum "The Great Race Space". Notice how I insisted on the word "read". You should not post there yet, because you need serious feminism chops in order to do this. But the OP is cool and good, and it contains many links you can and ought to read. lol Flowers For Algeria fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jan 24, 2017 |
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Jan 24, 2017 00:53
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Alright, Malcolm X and Hitler then..... lmao you have absolutely no clue of what the feminist movement is or stands for, or who the central figures are.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:56
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Many prominent advocates of feminism seem to give off the impression of being unhappy and constantly aggrieved Pharohman777 posted:James rolfe made this video about why he would not see the new ghostbusters:
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Jan 24, 2017 00:56
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gently caress Whitey posted:I for one am very angry that feminism is demanding we blame rapists for rape instead of rape victims  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 24, 2017 01:02
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Lena Dunham is a leader in modern feminist thought, and the most important figure in modern feminism. Anita Sarkeesian is a close second. e. And yeah if you think feminists have a bee in their bonnet, have you seen how anti-feminists compose themselves? You basically have "shouts incoherently" or "pretends to be Kane from C&C" to choose from.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:05
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I decided to educate myself about communism, so I started reading the greats: Posadas and Avakian (Or for you to understand the analogy since you seem so hung up on irrelevant people mostly related to gg and the Clinton campaign, this is basically like pretending farmville is the greatest video game of all time)
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Jan 24, 2017 01:09
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botany posted:lmao Ive read and enjoyed Simone De Bouvioir, Germaine Greer and Virginia Woolf who i think its fair to say were figureheads of their time...not sure who the contemporary equivalents are in terms of spirit and impact but I'm all ears.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:12
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Ive read and enjoyed Simone De Bouvioir, Germaine Greer and Virginia Woolf who i think its fair to say were figureheads of their time...not sure who the contemporary equivalents are in terms of spirit and impact but I'm all ears. I very much doubt you have. Also, telling that you haven't "read" anything after Simone Beauvoir...
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Jan 24, 2017 01:18
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Pharohman777 posted:Teach men not to rape. this is what red pillers think is objectionable
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Jan 24, 2017 01:25
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stone cold posted:I very much doubt you have. Also, telling that you haven't "read" anything after Simone Beauvoir... Please don't gaslight me.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:33
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stone cold posted:I very much doubt you have. I wouldn't discount it entirely, myself. It's very easy for people to read about and sympathise with bad things in the past while sauntering past similar poo poo in the present.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:37
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Ive read and enjoyed Simone De Bouvioir, Germaine Greer and Virginia Woolf who i think its fair to say were figureheads of their time...not sure who the contemporary equivalents are in terms of spirit and impact but I'm all ears. Yes, and I've read and enjoyed Benjamin Franklin, Alessandro Volta, and André-Marie Ampère, who I think it's fair to say were figureheads of their time with regards to electricity. And now I'm going to explain to you how a gen 3 nuclear reactor and electronics work.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:43
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Please don't gaslight me.  What did you make of A Room of One's Own?
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Jan 24, 2017 01:47
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Famethrowa posted:this is what red pillers think is objectionable It is. It assumes that the default thing men do is rape, and that only via some sort of seminar can that issue be fixed. It assumes the worst of every man, in a culture where rape is a crime so reviled by the public that being merely accused of being a rapist is a huge black mark against a persons reputation. Look at how modern american media and culture view those who force themselves on a woman or hit them. Heck, even movies and videogames use assult against women as a shorthand to show that the guy attemping to force himself on a woman is vile and evil. Rape is already culturally reprehensable and taboo.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:50
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Angepain posted:I wouldn't discount it entirely, myself. It's very easy for people to read about and sympathise with bad things in the past while sauntering past similar poo poo in the present. This - "the civil rights movement of the 60's was one of the most important eventsof our nation's history and I sure am glad racism is over now" is a shockingly common mindset.
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Jan 24, 2017 01:51
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Pharohman777 posted:It is. It assumes that the default thing men do is rape, and that only via some sort of seminar can that issue be fixed. No, it doesn't. This is, however, the anti-feminist caricature of these programs!
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Jan 24, 2017 01:53
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