|
Raxivace posted:I haven't seen Hacksaw Ridge yet but I feel like most of the popular World War II films treat the Axis powers as if they were demons instead of humans. Well yeah, they're made by the winners.
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 06:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:37 |
|
|
A film that humanizes Nazis would get so much left-wing flak this day and age.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 06:12
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I haven't seen Hacksaw Ridge yet but I feel like most of the popular World War II films treat the Axis powers as if they were demons instead of humans. This is definitely true when it comes to depictions of the Japanese. The Nazis are an army, while the Japanese are a horde. Vegetable posted:A film that humanizes Nazis would get so much left-wing flak this day and age. Fury came out two years ago, and it did not. I think the third act from a different, worse movie, made people forget about the much better first two thirds.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 06:38
|
|
|
Snowman_McK posted:Fury came out two years ago, and it did not. I think the third act from a different, worse movie, made people forget about the much better first two thirds. Fury was better and not nominated for an Oscar, which it shouldn't be. Hacksaw Ridge felt like a propaganda movie brought out of the mid-20th century into 2016.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 08:36
|
|
|
Obstacle2 posted:Hacksaw Ridge felt like a propaganda movie brought out of the mid-20th century into 2016. Well, Gibson did list Saving Private Ryan as one of his influences.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 09:58
|
|
|
Samuel Clemens posted:Well, Gibson did list Saving Private Ryan as one of his influences. He could have at least been less heavy-handed as Spielberg. It seriously fucks with my head that people think of this movie as accurate and impactful. Who the gently caress relates to Desmond Doss? Who thinks those combat sequences are remotely accurate?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 10:42
|
|
|
Kawabata posted:why was hacksaw ridge nominated for best picture, this is a serious question Think back over the years about all the films that got nominated because of the underlying story being respectable and not because of any exceptional artistry in the crafting of the film. Hidden Figures, Imitation Game, Selma, etc. Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Feb 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 12:01
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:Think back over the years about all the films that got nominated because of the underlying story being respectable and not because of any exceptional artistry in the crafting of the film. Hidden Figures, Imitation Game, Selma, etc. Selma is a pretty drat accurate account of that moment in time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 12:06
|
|
|
Sure, but I"m not so much concerned about accuracy as artistry in the film. edit: although the more I think about it, the more I have to acknowledge that Hacksaw Ridge is even more artless than the films I named
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 12:18
|
|
|
Selma is really good, what the gently caress?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 13:17
|
|
|
Snowman_McK posted:Selma is really good, what the gently caress? Steve Yun, You gonna tell me 12 Years a Slave has no "artistry" either?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 14:44
|
|
|
https://letterboxd.com/gemko/film/selma/Mike D'Angelo posted:Got very worried early on, because DuVernay's handling of the Birmingham church bombing is atrocious—not only does she shoot the buildup to the explosion with various doomy portents (close-ups of little hands sliding down bannisters, etc.), she isolates one of the little girls on the stairs in a way that telegraphs what's about to happen, to the point where I actually said "And boom!" out loud about one second before the bomb went off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
Ah yes, Mike https://thedissolve.com/features/exposition/1059-imagining-a-better-alternate-universe-in-which-jam/ D'Angelo (actually I like reading his Scenic Routes column but a lot of his opinions are real... "out there" sometimes)
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
Agreed, but he's able to explain his contrarian opinions in a way where I can at least understand where he's coming from Also, regarding Selma's accuracy: Wikipedia posted:Director DuVernay and US Representative John Lewis (whom the film portrays as a young man) responded separately that the film Selma is a work of art about the people of Selma, not a documentary. DuVernay said in an interview that she did not see herself as "a custodian of anyone's legacy". In response to criticisms that she rewrote history to portray her own agenda, DuVernay said that the movie is "not a documentary. I'm not a historian. I'm a storyteller." Lewis wrote in an op-ed for The Los Angeles Times: "We do not demand completeness of other historical dramas, so why is it required of this film?" Not trying to say that Selma is bad (it isn't), but lol at the idea that it is "exceptionally artistic".
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 15:14
|
|
|
I didn't think Selma was that great either. It's a solid B+ movie. Great cinematography though.GonSmithe posted:Steve Yun, You gonna tell me 12 Years a Slave has no "artistry" either? 12 Years a Slave is like a thousand times better than Selma.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
china bot posted:Agreed, but he's able to explain his contrarian opinions in a way where I can at least understand where he's coming from
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
Coaaab posted:i did enjoy his page-long mixed reaction to moonlight i can't find one now, but there's at least a couple of Dissolve reviews he wrote where the director showed up in the comments to take personal offense
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 15:29
|
|
|
GonSmithe posted:Steve Yun, You gonna tell me 12 Years a Slave has no "artistry" either?
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
Obstacle2 posted:He could have at least been less heavy-handed as Spielberg. It seriously fucks with my head that people think of this movie as accurate and impactful. Who the gently caress relates to Desmond Doss? Who thinks those combat sequences are remotely accurate? Which parts are you referring to? I related to him being a goofball around his eventual wife, I'm sure a lot other people can relate to him wanting to serve his country but not want to take lives and instead save them. As for the combat sequences it's a Hollywood movie, heck I often ask why people think Saving Private Ryan is so good since it is just as bad for action scenes. I thought the point of the movie was to let people know you don't need to gun people down to be a good person, but I also agree that there were a few things I found really stupid such as Doss smacking a hand grenade away, or the subsequent christ imagery as his stretcher goes down the escarpment. If it hadn't been for the clips after the fact from Doss and the other members from his company that last shot would've ruined the movie for me. I say all this as someone who liked the movie and even I was surprised the film got so many nominations, best picture? poo poo after American Sniper you may as well nominate the film about the medal of honor winner who never touched a firearm.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 17:39
|
|
|
Snowman_McK posted:Selma is really good, what the gently caress? edit: Here's one example (and I'll have to watch it again to remember others): the tapes of MLK's infidelity are mailed to Coretta. She listens to them, and MLK watches shamefully. And then... that's it. No repercussions, no developments, no changes to the direction of the narrative. How does MLK wrestle with his own infidelity as a preacher? Is it okay to overlook a leader's shortcomings in order to achieve an important movement? These are all interesting questions the scene brings up that the movie doesn't bother dealing with. Why even put the scene there then? It's just there to check off the list of Things That Happened and move on. Uncle Boogeyman posted:I didn't think Selma was that great either. It's a solid B+ movie. Great cinematography though. Agreed, 12 Years A Slave was fantastic Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
Aces High posted:I also agree that there were a few things I found really stupid such as Doss smacking a hand grenade away, or the subsequent christ imagery as his stretcher goes down the escarpment. Well, the grenade thing really happened. The movie just didn't sell it very well because the ending got so rushed it felt like a montage of "oh poo poo we need to put in this checklist of scenes before the movie's over" so it came across like bullshit Edit: also, good lord some of that green screening was so bad Edit: it's too bad because I thought the underlying story was interesting. I can forgive a film making embellishments to make a film more meaningful or interesting, but where Hacksaw Ridge deviates from the source material it seems to always be for the worse Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Feb 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 18:57
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Selma is a pretty drat accurate account of that moment in time. Other than LBJ turning heel on MLK, yes
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 19:27
|
|
|
I think it's a stretch to call 12 years a slave or Selma great movies and there certainly were better oscar/oscar nomination contenders at the time, but sure they're both on another planet compared to Hacksaw Ridge.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 21:55
|
|
|
I like that in reality, it wasn't the grenade smack that was the crazy part, it was the thank that attacked them after.quote:Pfc. Desmond T. Doss was not wounded and evacuated in a daylight assault at Hacksaw Ridge. He was wounded a couple of weeks later in the Okinawa Campaign during a night attack near Shuri. As per his Medal of Honor citation, he was wounded in the legs by a grenade but had to wait five hours before stretcher bearers could reach him, during which time he dressed his own wounds. While being carried back to safety by three stretcher bearers, they were attacked by a Japanese tank. Doss crawled off the stretcher to a more seriously wounded man and insisted the others evacuate that soldier and then return for him. While waiting for the stretcher to return, he was shot by a sniper as he was being carried by another soldier. This caused a compound fracture on his arm, for which he improvised a splint using a rifle stock. He then crawled 300 yards to an Aid Station for treatment. When Andrew Garfield first came on the scene, I really didn't like him, and thought his american accent was pretty bad, but he surprised the hell out of me in Hacksaw and Silence.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
Is anyone else trying to see the Oscar nominated short films? My indie theater is doing them by category, and I just got back from the animated shorts segment. I thought "Pear Cider and Cigarettes" was pretty cool and entertaining. It was like an ode to the life and long expected early death of this narrator's super reckless childhood friend, framed by the story of the narrator's journey to China to try to help the guy get a new liver. Also I think the narrator/illustrator was the guy who did those Gorillaz music videos, and the music is really good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2017 23:56
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:I didn't think Selma was that great either. It's a solid B+ movie. Great cinematography though. Selma is good, it doesn't lack artistic merit at all. But yeah, 12 Years a Slave is on another level. Just another level. Kawabata posted:I think it's a stretch to call 12 years a slave or Selma great movies and there certainly were better oscar/oscar nomination contenders at the time, but sure they're both on another planet compared to Hacksaw Ridge. You fuckin nuts, boy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:24
|
|
|
That was a good Oscar year. I’d have been happy with Gravity, Her, or The Wolf of Wall Street winning. 12 Years a Slave at the very least is equal to all of them, to the extent that four very very different films can be compared.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:40
|
|
|
Nebraska was my personal favorite of that year. I like 12 Years a Slave but I kind of feel like it needed to be connected to modern times more, if the number of white people I know that walked out of the movie saying "Well thank god racism is over now here in America and all that slavery stuff is in the past" are any indication. That being said I'm not sure how that could have been done in a way that would work with telling Solomon Northup's story specifically. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 08:44
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:Nebraska was my personal favorite of that year. Except that it's pretty much the only high profile film about American slavery that indicts Christianity as a central component of the success of said institution, which basically represents a major change in historical interpretation, at least where cinema is concerned. I like how David Simon put it: "...it marks the first time in history that our entertainment industry, albeit with international creative input, has managed to stare directly at slavery and maintain that gaze"
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 09:14
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Except that it's pretty much the only high profile film about American slavery that indicts Christianity as a central component of the success of said institution, which basically represents a major change in historical interpretation, at least where cinema is concerned. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Feb 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 09:56
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:Eh, there was Spielberg's Amistad too though I don't think its as good as 12YAS. What's your point?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 10:33
|
|
|
That it also addressed religion as part of what allowed slavery to spread, though like I said I don't think it did it as well as 12YAS.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 10:44
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:That it also addressed religion as part of what allowed slavery to spread, though like I said I don't think it did it as well as 12YAS. I guess it's been a while since I saw it, but yeah...I don't remember that. Oh well, wasn't trying to be a dick 
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 10:46
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:Think back over the years about all the films that got nominated because of the underlying story being respectable and not because of any exceptional artistry in the crafting of the film. Hidden Figures, Imitation Game, Selma, etc. You know after avoiding it like the plague cuz of the all the talk about it not deserving an Oscar, caught most of the Danish Girl on HBO. Not bad. Not the best of the year material, but a pretty affecting story.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 19:44
|
|
|
Alicia Vikander is real good in it
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:Alicia Vikander is real good in it She's pretty much good in everything. That same year she slam-dunked in Ex Machina.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2017 21:15
|
|
|
BeanpolePeckerwood posted:You fuckin nuts, boy. It felt like slavery horror porn to me. I like that the entertainment industry finally looked at slavery in the eye and didn't flinch but the movie overall was pretty dull and could've easily been 20 minutes shorter. 12 years a slave also seemed to look for shock factor really hard, which is perplexing because its source already had it in spades. I read Northup's book before the movie and iirc there were at least a couple of absolutely vicious scenes like a slave stabbed to death to prevent a rape and a naked woman whipped in public where either the movie greatly exaggerated the events or completely made them up. I would've really liked a little less torture and a little more narrative cohesion / character focus. Because the torture and absolute evil message is totally driven home by 1/3 of the movie. The way a massive truck is driven through your home. Kawabata fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 05:57
|
|
|
Kawabata posted:It felt like slavery horror porn to me. I like that the entertainment industry finally looked at slavery in the eye and didn't flinch but the movie overall was pretty dull and could've easily been 20 minutes shorter.12 years a slave also seemed to look for shock factor really hard, which is perplexing because its source already had it in spades. I read Northup's book before the movie and iirc there were at least a couple of absolutely vicious scenes like a slave stabbed to death to prevent a rape and a naked woman whipped in public where either the movie greatly exaggerated the events or completely made them up. So the movie was boring and dull but also too shocking, pornographic even? Bleh. Sorry they didn't sanitize the events of systematized human exploitation enough for ya!  Yeah, I couldn't disagree with you more. In fact, part of what made 12years so powerful for me is that such a beautiful film could be made about such an ugly subject, and that its message about human behavior and compromised morality could be so nuanced. But hey, I'll humor you. Here is a decent film essay about the violence depicted in the film and how it is strategically shot to demonstrate brutality in the aftermath of the act rather than during...how, in general, there is very little resolution, release, or catharsis for the audience in the end...you know, release (violent, sexual, or otherwise) being one particular feature that helps us critically define something as pornographic or not. The same standard could also be applied to a film as extreme as Irreversible for example, a movie that Ebert notably defended as not pornographic due to its reverse narrative structure which prevented the potential of audience release through violence. Anyways.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 08:03
|
|
|
I didn't watch 12 Years A Slave because I read about Brad Pitt's role in that film and it sounded loving laughably lovely but this discussion has made me want to give it a go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 10:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 20:37 |
|
|
Not only is Pitt in the film for about five minutes at most, there's nothing bad about his performance except maybe the accent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2017 11:58
|
|