|
Nroo posted:Add me for PA. Joined Inauguration Day for the closest chapter (Philly). It's a 30 min drive from where I live so I hope it doesn't become an issue Just wanted to say that you have an amazing avatar/quote :O
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 4, 2024 10:58 |
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why not both? PSL are tankie scum tho who are all about solidarity with the DPRK, China, Russia, etc. DSA is a bit soc dem but it has the numbers with none of the tank
|
|
#
¿
Feb 1, 2017 07:48
|
|
|
R. Guyovich posted:Imperialism is bad, but also the CIA is totally right about every enemy-designate of the United States. I'm extremely leftist and smart about it. Russia is bad but they're definitely totally right about how hosed the U.S. government is. That's why RT has some of the best coverage of U.S./Israel despite faults Rly though enemy of my enemy isn't a tough concept
|
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
I went to a DSA anti-valentines bar thing and it was v cool and v good! Really high turnout for a Tuesday night
|
|
#
¿
Feb 15, 2017 08:34
|
|
|
Ace of Baes posted:Can't wait to watch goons explain why they made so many jokes about cum and 9/11 when they run for office. Given that America has a cult of authenticity, all you need to do is say "cum is an inside job so what" and pull your dick/tits out to get wild applause in this post-Trump landscape I'm going to a DSA happy hour tomorrow so that should be cool and good!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2017 01:48
|
|
|
Guys guys guys!!!!! I just came up with a golden idea vis-a-vis campaigning for a shorter work week: we use Trump as an example! In short, if Trump can do his job with his lack of work ethic/constant three day weekends/time off, why can't we? I'm going to push this at future DSA meetings. Melanchon winning in France with his 32 hour work week promise would be a massive boon as well.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 13, 2017 02:08
|
|
|
dsa are luxemburg killing suc dem opportunists anyway, but that's still 69x better than what's currently available
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:I'm already getting a headache when people will be like "Why doesn't Pittsburgh DSA endorse John Fetterman?" to which I can refer to the video footage of his lt gov endorsement hearing that was a total shitshow. Guy is all style no substance and only gets by because he has a decent social media presence and no one gives a poo poo about how he actually ran things as Mayor of Braddock. Have you posted about this in the John Fetterman thread? I feel like more people should know about what you're saying
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2021 08:06
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:and you know what? the FTV people ARE dilettante grifters Brie Joy Gray is not a dilettante grifter and has been a great voice for the left, and if you disagree you can kindly shut the hell up
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:If trying to build support for a vote based on the (incorrect) assumption that M4A just needs to be more popular is a waste of effort, what would you propose? Do you believe there is a credible path to M4A in the next 2 years that runs through the Dems? I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't believe there's a magic left alternative who would immediately take over the Democratic Party after a failed vote on M4A. I do believe it would help with overall disillusionment, as ill-defined a concept as that is
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
i used to think this but her repeated invective against "organizing" and association with this do-nothing campaign has revealed her to be useless on practical matters Invective against "organizing" is understandable when people on the left make "organizing" into an end all, be all principle that is simply good on its own merits rather than a means to an end, or who accuse people of being bad leftists because they haven't "done the work." It becomes a way of shaming people As for association with a "do-nothing" campaign you sound just like people who have canceled leftists for being against FTV but simply the inverse of that
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
remember when BJG was going to finally attend some metro dsa organizing meeting, presumably to put forward FTV as a motion, but then was too tired after going on a jog and decided not to? this is what we're dealing with here. I don't remember this one thing that definitely happened that obviously once and for all destroyed her credibility. drat sorry about that You don't think she was doing anything to organize people as Bernie's national press secretary?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
I remember the canard that progressive "organizers" and "activists" preferred Elizabeth Warren to Bernie Sanders. People who are paid to be "thought leaders" or whatever the gently caress are an outlier. They don't represent the broader working class
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
Again, I didn't have 100% confidence that FTV was the right strategy, but seeing the outright paranoia from DSA chapters that some people actually wanted them to demand it and the vociferous complaining about Jimmy Dore was a clear display of the organization and the organized "left" being in retreat. Once you become more active in shutting down demands than spending an iota of time even entertaining them, you're doa as a movement. That's the flaw of an entryist organization that seeks influence with the Democrats and aims to remain in the good graces of the few who will pay lip service to DSA: it has to convince its own members that the entryism is working and that demands made of so-called allies is "asking too much" of them. And instead of doing the PR of simply showing their work and proposing alternate solutions for M4A, its members have become paranoid of outside cishet white men Marxism-Dorism agitators who they insist are "grifters" rather than people who are rightfully impatient It's the same condescending bullshit that liberal technocrats tell leftists about the necessity of "doing politics" but from the left, just a pure elevation of process as a dogma
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2021 05:37
|
|
|
Yeah, sorry but I can't get over the fact that you and a bunch of other DSA organizers are committed to saying poo poo about how "FTV people are dilettante grifters" ad nauseum even if those "grifters" are people who have done organizing, whether they be Brie Joy Gray, Cornel West, Kshama Sawant, branches of Our Revolution or what have you. It clearly demonstrates that you have a ton of insecurity. If this is a dead horse then you're doing a bad job of acting like you're reckoning with it in a healthy way
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2021 19:08
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:HAS brie joy gray don a ton of organizing? or has she, in fact, done a ton of tweeting and podcasting because it was her job and now remains an important income stream? how many other FTV figureheads does this describe? hell, have kshama sawant and SAlt entire done any organizing on or for the FTV campaign, besides to say they like it so that they could sidle up besides MPP at the disaffected dsa members trough? has cornel west put any more work into FTV than he did into telling us to vote for biden? I don't know but you have a continuous obsession with comparing notes and determining who is and isn't a ***true organizer*** such that you're willing to throw Cornel loving West under the bus. If you're going to insult others for being squad skeptics it's only fair that I point that out. https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1238891725197885442?s=20 Look at this drat grifter. Disgusting https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/controversy-dogs-tavis-smiley-and-cornel-wests-poverty-tour-media-attention-does-too/ Meanwhile if anyone even suggests that the squad haven't lived up to their mandate as members of congress you throw a hissy fit, even though that mandate is far greater than whichever person it is you feel like defaming in a given moment, even if their crime is going for a jog instead of attending a single DSA meeting The grifter line of attack also obfuscates the fact that Cornel West, BJG, and others could have used their influence much more lucratively than they have chosen to, whether by becoming surrogates of the DNC or choosing to defend individual Democrats. Michael Eric Dyson has fared far better than Cornel West since West went on his scorched earth campaign against Obama. Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 23:05 on Jan 17, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2021 23:02
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:i'm not throwing cornel west under the bus, i'm pointing out that he's thrown you under the bus. where's his force the vote work? was it appearing on a zoom call? You're just making poo poo up now and setting up incredibly stupid strawmen that have nothing to do with what we're talking about. For one thing, you're assuming that I have an axe to grind with every single person who votes for Biden as though I'm exhibit A succzone poster. Where did BJG say "organizing is bad?" And if none of these "dilettante grifters" are doing that much for FTV after all than why are you so obsessed with defaming them?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2021 23:22
|
|
|
BJG said that the organized left is merely helping the establishment Since when does an "organized left" even exist in this country? And how is pointing out moments of complicity/compromise with the status quo by established "left" orgs equivalent to being "against organizing?" I can't even tell what you're positing anymore
|
|
#
¿
Jan 18, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
Isn't nyc dsa the one that had Sean McEldweeb
|
|
#
¿
Jan 18, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:there are plenty of leftists who see AOC and co as counterrevolutionary judas goats who the organized left should kick to the curb immediately lol No purity tests for politicians folks. Purity tests for ordinary socialists with little or no power to affect change however? You bet your rear end Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 06:33 on Jan 20, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jan 20, 2021 06:20
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:ferrinus meant that those people think AOC and the squad should be kicked to the curb, not that ferrinus thinks that those leftists should be kicked to the curb ah okay, my bad if this is what you meant ferri
|
|
#
¿
Jan 21, 2021 01:46
|
|
|
nobody has the power to create m4a but everybody has the power to push for m4a. if you are a marxist, you recognize that there is a dialectical relationship between what happens at the level of the base and the superstructure. members of the superstructure can reorient the conversation in such a way that it effects what happens at the base. ergo, simply waiting for a movement to create m4a at the base level is counterproductive and stupid when there's an overton window that needs shifting Saying that something "can't happen without a movement" is true, but where do movements come from? What is the impetus for them? It's really not a chicken and egg question so much as a cyclical process of change Yossarian-22 has issued a correction as of 01:19 on Jan 23, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:it's a good thing then that socialist public figures have been and are continuing to advocate for m4a among other social democratic policies What have members of Congress done lately on behalf of M4A?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2021 01:19
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:supported striking workers at hunts point, of course sorry but this thing of abstractly "building the labor movement" by supporting one strike doesn't cut it
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2021 06:09
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:lol, see? it's exactly as i said. you came in here looking for an excuse not to do anything... and lucky for you, you found it! in fact the nation's biggest socialist organization is just a bunch of collaborators, every politician associated with them is secretly on nancy pelosi's side, there is no forward motion and no hope. just stay inside and post more nice meltdown you know this thread might be better if you didn't suck up all of its oxygen with essay length posts defending the integrity of dsa, like you're actually doing more harm than good
|
|
#
¿
Jan 23, 2021 23:15
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:If you actually held a strong position that you could defend with integrity you wouldn't have to resort to trickery "resort to trickery?" oh my god lmao you're such a smarmy little nerd the plan to ally with bernie on including m4a in covid relief that I didn't quote was beside the point. that's a separate discussion, but i think people here are correct in saying that it would be perceived as ideological opportunism and be subsumed by the larger debate about covid relief as a general issue. my point is that if the squad's single contribution which you can ascribe to them is simply "aoc marched with striking workers in new york," i'm sorry but figures as feckless as pete loving buttigieg have marched with striking workers. that has zero relation to m4a
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2021 00:03
|
|
|
that all these people were members of the sanders campaign in the democratic primary for which m4a was a central issue, and to this end they made copious public statements, stump speeches, campaign appearances, etc AOC's contribution to Sanders' campaign was brilliant. Making speeches without using his name while he was in D.C. for impeachment, letting her grievances about the Joe Rogan endorsement get leaked to the press, constantly praising Elizabeth Warren on twitter, agreeing with The View's critique of Bernie Bros. and not attacking the idea forcefully and decisively, etc.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2021 03:25
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:lol, okay, what's your takeaway here? was she secretly a saboteur? she didn't mean it? Regarding her role as a "saboteur," well I'm not that cynical, but I believe she's clearly playing both sides of the Democratic Party because she has ambitions to become president. This was also evident when she threw Ilhan Omar under the bus for her "all about the Benjamins" quote and said that poo poo about "calling in rather than calling out," when she removed statements about her foreign policy from her website, etc. As for the second part, I'd say her GND advocacy was probably the most productive thing she did, but even then she took out language from the og Green Party proposal which included a ban on fracking and decrease in military spending, and all signs indicate that she has no desire to push Biden to go further than the $1 trillion proposal over ten years that he's advocating. I don't see any clear bona fides on M4A beyond her halfhearted endorsement of Bernie
|
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2021 23:36
|
|
|
Well all the same I think all that speaks to AOC's opportunism and the squad's fear of Pelosi, which is why people are healthily skeptical (and yeah admittedly some outright cynical, although I'd argue for good reason) that the squad will be able to either affect momentum towards real social democratic movement within the party especially without any inside-outside strategy that puts pressure on them. It feels like a moment of extreme retreat after Sanders lost, and the way people spoke of Biden's victory over Sanders as though it represented the "defeat of M4A," despite the fact that Biden supporters were majority in favor of it, is a cynicism much more profound than that of the squad's detractors imo
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 03:49
|
|
|
I'm not even married to FTV, Dore, taints being run, etc. I just want Medicare for All by any means necessary. I want to see our supposed allies in Congress do loving anything that remotely suggests to me that they are actively pushing it and I want DSA to push it every loving day rather than see constant refrains and defensiveness from its corner towards members of Congress who are literally just Democrats under the thumb of Pelosi, Schumer, and Biden. No half measures or pleas to have a temporary M4A in the Covid bill. No roundabout paygo poo poo that will make M4A possible years from now. An actual loving crisis response. Period. I never 100% bought into the idea that FTV would produce the outcome that its advocates set out to do but god loving dammit, it was at least something, and the bad faith response that it got from ostensible leftists was such a tell that I'm just profoundly disgusted
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 09:50
|
|
|
i understand that watching sanders push for temporary m4a is disheartening and that even it was passed it would be worse than permanent m4a lol, it's not going to be passed
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:i've never really bought the "dirty break" but no, i didn't include it because engaging with essay long posts is tedious and the fact that this temporary m4a is a dead letter which will probably die in committee without much debate is the main point anyway, you're right, it's not going to be passed. but it might be watered down into some nonzero addition to what otherwise would have been even more paltry corona relief, and, better yet (by FTV standards) it will put various electeds On The Record as to their willingness to give their constituents survival resources in an emergency, which can then be parlayed into such rhetorical lines of attack as "we're still in a broader health emergency - if you were willing to support it during the pandemic, why can't you guarantee us health care during the broader economic crisis?" or "X politician wasn't even willing to give you health care in the middle of a plague! we need to replace them with Y, who will fight to make sure you have the medical care you need regardless of profit motive!" Again, why wouldn't it just die in committee for being an "obstruction" against a COVID-19 bill that can get broad congressional support?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 25, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:the reason it seems so burdensome to you is that i'm right. that's why you can't easily come up with and dash off a reply to the stuff i've said. i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world Oh my lord jesus shut the gently caress up
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 01:03
|
|
|
tiberion02 posted:typing out a single sentence of text where you avoid saying anything of value doesn't automatically refute anybody's arguments. it doesn't but it can clarify why nobody wants to engage with you or listen to you pretty damned easily
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:so it should be easy for you to quote me and point out where i've said something wrong or contentless, right? every time somebody tries to parse out the wrong parts of your statements you go "BWAHAHA, you iGnOred thE other thing I said DELIBERATELY, WHAT TRICKERY IS THIS  "
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 01:08
|
|
|
MSDOS KAPITAL posted:maybe if you spend 10000 words defending dsa against whatever and in the end convince nobody and annoy everybody, that's not the fault of everyone else and not even the fault of dsa Yeah no literally, "medicare for all" is three words, "we're doing a healthcare conference with nurses united" is 8. I'm not married to ftv, Ferrinus, but you are pathologically obsessed with long explanatory posts about it that are tedious and in fact the worst possible PR for DSA. And who are you to white knight them when those are almost the only posts you've made in this entire thread? Ask anyone else here, even people who agree with you, and I guarantee they feel the same way as I do. Sorry for my "meta-complaint" but the oxygen levels in this thread are wearing thin
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 03:21
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:no, congresspeople aren't what really matter. please read lenin. then don't defend them constantly bing bong so simple
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 18:22
|
|
|
The video that Tucker Carlson highlighted of the DSA handwringing was pretty damned embarrassing regardless of its good accessibility politics. Ironically it made the DSA seem less accessible as an organization. You can have policies meant to support a wide range of people and still not make an absolute rear end of yourself People raising their hands and shouting "POINT OF PRIVILEGE" was almost a PTSD experience for me in which flashbacks of useless occupy meetings played back in my mind repeatedly. The fact that figures like Tucker were positively giddy at the sheer cringe of it all added to how nauseating that episode was I saw the DSA's most ardent defenders claim that caring about optics was "normie politics" and yet, despite that claim, it remains undeniably true that you kind of have to appeal to normies if you want a class struggle with a mass character? I say this as an rear end burger
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 18:38
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:and yes, that democratic primary. actually i think it's a great example because people were asked flat out over multiple debates whether they supported m4a, and while they started out saying yes they ultimately said no. in the final debate between sanders and biden, biden was EXPLICITLY like "gently caress to m4a, m4a is useless, look at italy, italy's single payer healthcare didn't stop the coronavirus, i spit on m4a". i think you'd agree with me that that debate was a lot more heavily publicized than a floor vote broadcast on c-span will be! and yet One thing that people forget was that the primary was essentially over by Super Tuesday, and before the single 1v1 debate Bernie was essentially dead in the water due to all of the insane manuevering by the Dems between South Carolina and ST. Biden had the primary wrapped up and no amount of pushback from Bernie against Biden after that point would have changed the result
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 20:36
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 4, 2024 10:58 |
|
|
Ferrinus posted:we've actually been over this in some depth, but everyone likes to pretend not to have read any answer given on the topic so they can pretend to be the first to bring it up dude people aren't actively plotting against you and sometimes just forget things you have said in several pages worth of text
|
|
#
¿
Jan 26, 2021 20:51
|
|