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Labour's current path is electoral suicide I can't imagine opposing brexit - the platform on which every Labour MP was elected - would actually make matters worse. The fact is that Corbyn is pro brexit and always has been. To his credit, he's finally found an issue on which he is prepared to be decisive.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:12
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Namtab posted:I don't think "oppose brexit" was a manifesto commitment tbh A commitment to EU membership was.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:21
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Namtab posted:But specifically opposing brexit following a referendum was not. By that token: nor to specifically support Brexit.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:28
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Namtab posted:I'm glad we now agree that labour mps were not elected on a platform of opposing brexit Labour MPs were elected on a pro EU platform. Labour rolling over for the Tories will soften gently caress all.
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Feb 1, 2017 01:33
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Namtab posted:The Tories can force it through regardless, the aim is to get them to crumble and accept some of the amendments, which seem easy enough to swing some rebellion or concessions. That's not going to happen. There will be no concessions or meaningful amendments. Why on earth would the Tories 'crumble' in the face of zero opposition?
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Feb 1, 2017 01:40
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Coohoolin posted:My mother has hired an immigration lawyer. Hopefully things go smoothly. I'll keep everything crossed.
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Feb 1, 2017 11:12
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What did Corbyn ask about Brexit?
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Feb 1, 2017 13:21
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Great work Jezza.
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Feb 1, 2017 13:41
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Rakosi posted:https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/01/eu-brexit-deal-city-leaked-report-european-parliament-article-50 I think it's always been obvious that Brexit is bad for everyone. A bad deal is also bad for everyone.
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Feb 1, 2017 14:18
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Rakosi posted:Yes, but surely it must be conceded that whilst the Brexiteers have been naive in their hope for a great deal for everyone (and lying about monetary savings and the NHS), there has been an ignored weight of dishonesty in the Remainer camp regarding how much more the UK needs the EU than the EU needs the UK (or, namely, the City of London). Personally, I always have and still do take a very dim view of all of the EU politicians that spoke out in vengeful sabre-rattling tones during and since the campaign. If it turns out, after the article 50 negotiation deadline, that it only really had a nominal effect on the UK then I think it would be fair to accuse some politicians of effectively trying to terrorize a nation into membership. I think you raise some valid points.
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Feb 1, 2017 14:46
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Spangly A posted:European economy, 22.8% of nominal global GDP. UK economy, 4.4% The point rakosi is making is not that the EU needs the UK more than vice versa, but that the dangers to the EU from a disorderly Brexit are real. https://twitter.com/newdawn1997/status/826778788151296000 Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 14:54
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https://twitter.com/duncanrobinson/status/826809483200495616
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Feb 1, 2017 16:41
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https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/826863883604332544
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Feb 1, 2017 19:48
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Something, at least https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/826866773802762241
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Feb 1, 2017 20:05
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jabby posted:Labour wants to amend the bill and not block it, so they will be voting for amendments. Voting against the bill at this stage would be voting to block it. You might say they should try to block it, I'm not sure why 'amendments come later and can't be forced through' is a difficult concept. I've already told you. These amendments aren't going to happen.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:47
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OwlFancier posted:Oh well now that you say it it's settled. You're attempting to rationalise Corbyn's actions by pinning your hopes on fanciful amendments that aren't going to be added to the bill. Labour are not opposing Brexit. They're not opposing this bill. They're doing gently caress all about t.
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Feb 1, 2017 21:53
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You've been banging on about opposing the bill being pointless because labour have a minority of MPs - but your genius plans involved 'threatening to block' it at the amendment stage?
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Feb 1, 2017 21:59
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OwlFancier posted:"If you have the facility" So your plan is for labour to not oppose the bill at any stage. Brilliant.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:02
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OwlFancier posted:Labour can't meaningfully oppose the bill you dolt. They can vote however they like and the only effect it will have is on public perception. Tell me what you think the point of the Opposition is, smart lad.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:05
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Trin Tragula posted:I have to say it's making my head spin a lot that we started this whole thing with "Support Corbyn for a leader who will actually oppose the Government's evil plans!" and now we're not a million miles away from "Support Corbyn for a leader who recognises that we can't possibly oppose the Government's evil plans!" The cherry in top is Corbyn supposedly being the leader who does the 'right' thing, not the populist thing. And the people who supported him for that are now supporting this populist stance on Brexit. He could poo poo on their cat and they'd nod sagely and agree that it was the nuanced, principled thing to do. What a loving mess he's made.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:35
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OwlFancier posted:Support Corbyn as a leader who actually wants the Labour party to give a poo poo about the welfare of the working class, for which domestic government policy is far more important than Brexit, especially as Brexit is a given and thus the way this and future governments spread the cost of it will be very important. Brexit is a given because Labour is not opposing it. Corbyn is a joke. He's hosed the Labour party.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:44
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OwlFancier posted:Completely incorrect, and you are well aware of that. It's entirely correct. Mister Adequate posted:Brexit is a loving catastrophe but how would you propose Corbyn or an alternative Lab leader should have acted in the time between the referendum and today, in order to stop it occurring? Built up a persuasive case against Brexit using all the evidence and events since - focussing most recently on the need for stability in the face of an increasingly alarming situation in America - then held a three line whip against tonight's bill, bringing rebel Tories on-side to defeat it. And you know what? Even if it had failed it would still have acted as some sort of brake on us careering towards the hardest of possible Brexits. Because there would have been opposition to it.
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Feb 1, 2017 22:54
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Labour could have generated leverage by effectively opposing Brexit - both inside and outside Parliament. The process is not going well. May is an idiot. This should have been exploited. Instead it's been squandered and leaves Labour literally supporting the Tories on the most important political issue of the last fifty years. It will do to Labour in the UK what the independence referendum did to them in Scotland. Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Feb 1, 2017 |
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Feb 1, 2017 23:02
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https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/826913643023495168
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Feb 1, 2017 23:10
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Namtab posted:If only Owen Smith had won. He's the man we need Do we know how he voted tonight?
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Feb 1, 2017 23:12
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OwlFancier posted:He would have used his sixty foot willy to beat May to death without leaving the labour benches. ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:against the bill, one of the 47 An interesting contrast.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:16
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OwlFancier posted:A choice between tories selling the NHS to the US out of stupidity and Smith selling it to whoever will pay him the most out of greed would be an interesting if depressing one. Owen Smith lost the leadership election i'm not sure why you're still pretending he's some sort of political boogeyman. He's irrelevant. ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:you asked how he voted, I replied. Not really difficult is it? The contrast I found interesting was between the hyperbole and reality.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:21
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OwlFancier posted:The idea being if he had not. Use your brain, flaps. Sorry my brain is too busy mulling over the majestic nuance of Corbyn supporting the Tories on Brexit and you thinking this is a good idea.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:23
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Extreme0 posted:I hope a Wall is built around the border of Scotland & England so that once Climate Change happens that all the English Refugees drown. That will teach them because we are full and we don't need more White people coming into our country. I can't visualise how this would work.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:32
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Oberleutnant posted:I wish i was dead already!! How about you cheer up us - and yourself - by transcribing a really long old rear end letter?
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Feb 1, 2017 23:35
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Is there any provision within the Article 50 mechanism for the process to take longer than 2 years? Yes.
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Feb 1, 2017 23:46
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:but no way of stopping it once it's enacted, correct? I'm sure I've asked this before That would be up to the European court to decide. The guy that wrote it believes its reversible. Private Speech posted:Anyone knows who were the 4 SNP MPs that didn't vote against the government? I'm curious now. Maybe Tasmina forgot which party she is in this year?
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Feb 2, 2017 00:00
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namesake posted:Pissflaps being mister helpful as usual. What is this six months?
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Feb 2, 2017 00:01
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Prince John posted:Given only 1 Tory apparently cares enough about Europe to rebel, who are the hordes of defectors you are expecting? It was widely reported in the poltiical press that May squashed any potential Tory rebellion by committing to produce a white paper, thereby eliminating the possibility of them joining with Labour. In a world where Labour were doing there job properly there would actually be a side to defect to. May was able to squash any rebellion simply by committing to a white paper because the Remain lobby in the house is so weak. One Tory rebelling in a parliament where the leader of the Opposition is siding with the Tories is not an accurate measure of how many could be persuaded to rebel in a parliament with an actual Opposition possessing a competent leader. Failing actually blocking the bill, their would have been enough resistance to get worthwhile amendments to protect us from the worse excesses of Brexit. This is all really, really loving obvious stuff.
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Feb 2, 2017 00:26
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Regarde Aduck posted:I think most supporters are pretty pissed off actually. Don't be a sore winner. I was right about Corbyn but that does not make me the 'winner'. We've all lost.
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Feb 2, 2017 00:29
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learnincurve posted:What are the odds on Germany just cancelling our membership, demanding money, and telling us that we have to start negotiating with European Union countries from scratch the moment article 50 is triggered? 0.
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Feb 2, 2017 09:01
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TACD posted:I was under the impression that Labour had basically promised to vote for the bill whether or not any amendments got added. Has there been an update where they're showing more spine? Clive Lewis has said he'll vote against without amendments (not sure what amendments he means specifically). Corbyn is planning to run a three line whip on the final vote regardless of what amendments are added. Posts like the ones you quoted are from people who still don't understand what Corbyn wants, or who are wilfully deceiving others.
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Feb 2, 2017 09:36
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Why would the EU want to see British financial services relocate to Northern Ireland, particularly?
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Feb 2, 2017 13:03
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WeAreTheRomans posted:They wouldn't particularly. The point is that ROI would need a sweetener to take on the annual 6 billion sinkhole of NI. And that, as I said, would probably take the form of structural funding or debt forgiveness. Isn't the Republic constitutionally bound to seek a reunited Ireland?
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Feb 2, 2017 13:09
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Has the EU ever before entered into such horse trading? It just doesn't seem to be something it does?
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Feb 2, 2017 13:10
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