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namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

kustomkarkommando posted:

Five hours to debate amendments setting negotiating priorities, a victory for the opposition...

No one is going to change their minds based on what is said in the house, it's the longer term thinking or just short term obedience which will determine what the Tories accept and vote for.

Hell they could let a few rebels get them passed and then blame Labour for whatever happens afterwards due to Labours backstabbing or something.

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namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

kustomkarkommando posted:

I don't think the official opposition should think like that as its kind of their duty to challenge the government in parliament by you know talking a lot

It doesn't take that long to stand up and say 'Giving the government a free hand without these conditions will be bad, vote for this amendments to make it good'. After a few hours it'll get repetitive.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

kustomkarkommando posted:

I don't think the opposition should actively vote to curtail the amount of time to make speeches and harangue the government

While calling them idiots in parliamentary language might be personally enjoyable they can just step outside and release as many statements as they like to the press. The only really important thing in the HoC is the voting and getting a sick burn on someone which makes the news.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

I've been saying for months now that anti-Brexit sentiment has to come from taking the popular mandate from pro-Brexit to anti, i.e. mass and sustained protest or more serious action. Since that hasn't appeared Labour seem to be doing their best given their resources and position as representatives of the British people.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Deare Lord Ashlington,

It is under sincere destress that I must inform youe of the events that have occurred at this place over the past twelve monthes...

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps being mister helpful as usual.

All the member states of the EU have to agree for an extension, which lasts 6 months.

Nothing is written down about undoing the process once it's started, so it'll be up to a European court to rule on it.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

What is this six months?

It's a period of time equal to about half the Earths rotation of the Sun. Rereading Article 50 I apparently imagined the two being related in some way.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

TinTower posted:

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/826920391125917704

Using a picture of one of the most famous European federalists ever, on the front page of a paper who literally said "Hurrah for the Blackshirts", to celebrate leaving the EU.

Towering ogre storms down London streets, smashes large clock

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

MikeCrotch posted:

settle down Beavis

"Re....

Reefer...

Reefer... u.... dumb.

Hey Beavis, I think this is an advert for weed?"

"Heh heh. Cool! Heh."

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Julio Cruz posted:

I'm gonna wait for an actual source for his comments rather than just criticise him on what he "apparently" said.

The Sun has some quotes, it's the sort of poorly thought through comment of 'Labour will stand by you and for you against oppression, for those who choose to be gay, choose to be lesbian' etc.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

I fact checked this and you're right: cancer is not a migraine.

Does the NHS know?

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

I don't hold any animosity towards anybody in this thread, and even if I did it certainly wouldn't shape my political views.

I think too much damage has been done for anyone to turn it around in time to win the next election.

It's better that Corbyn is humiliated at the polls so that he and his supporters gently caress off and leave running the Labour Party to the grown ups. If he slopes off now he'll cast a shadow over labour for far longer.

It's far more likely that the Oxbridge up and comers and rich backers who all want personal influence rather than Labours founding principles will depart first while those with trade union links and socialists will stick it out for longer; certain MPs are already bailing. Labour might continue on if they get a Blair Mk II in style but as before, policy does matter and they're unlikely to come up with any winning combos.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Comrade Cheggorsky posted:

Here is a thought: maybe Labour should have a leader who appeals to the British electorate and not just party members?

But the electorate is actually super lovely when it comes to things like economics, the environment and human rights? Much better to combine the electorates desires with sensible, sustainable policy and consistently argue for that rather than just nod along as someone who hasn't looked at the figures but heard we're giving all this money over to Africa for singing lessons when we can't afford BRIMSTONE MISSILES at home.

Pissflaps posted:

More nuanced: the few people who he appeals to joined he Labour Party to support him in his leadership elections. They don't necessarily support or vote for the Labour Party.

As with Trump, putting a leader at the top trying to do things that the rest of the organisational structure is unprepared (if not actually unwilling) to do is extremely difficult.

This is why socialism must come from below btw, there's no parliamentary road to it.

namesake fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Feb 4, 2017

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Rakosi posted:

Isn't that what independents are for?

I'd hope most people support the 'I love Hitler' local candidates less than the mainstream candidates.

Pissflaps posted:

I have to admit this STEM thing baffles me: why do people have a problem with people who study these sorts of degrees?

If you are rigorously taught to obey a series of intricate physical laws and doing otherwise will invite ruin without also having a reasonable indepth knowledge of how society doesn't function according to such neat rules you can produce a collection of manipulative conservative authoritarians misapplying their knowledge.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

I think liberal society is eating itself and you're either a fool or a coward to hope that centrism restores itself to authority through the power of empty promises and 'tolerable' levels of bigotry.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Verizian posted:

Liberalism was a compromise to make sure the nazis remained dead and buried. It never worked and instead gave excessive power to middle management types with fragile egos.

Hey Liberalism existed well before Fascism, it was just generally okay with racial hierarchies and militarist expansion until fascism came along.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

forkboy84 posted:

Sadly we're too stupid to have proper riots. We'll just bend over & take it & maybe complain about how bad it is while doing nothing about it. Hooray Britain.

Hey enough of this defeatist talk, we've been just as stupid throughout history and have had some amazing riots.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pochoclo posted:

I really hope this whole Donald Trump mess makes everyone see in full, painful detail just how bad a full-on balls-to-the-wall extremist right-wing racist government can be, and the apathetic masses start thinking that maybe it's a good idea to go back to that socialist democracy thing and we see a reversion of the latest alarming right-wing trend we've been seeing globally.

I mean SOMETHING has to break here eventually, either we wake up and get poo poo back in order, or we go full Shadowrun but without the cool parts.

I dunno if elves are the cool part but ok.

Totally agree on having to hold Trump up as the end result of a lot of our domestic attitudes though, hopefully that's what people have been doing at the protests today.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

learnincurve posted:

It worries me that people in the U.K. are mass protesting about trump and not about what's happening in Venezuela.

There's a lot of authoritarian states making their people suffer we could be protesting about, watching the worlds superpower turn fascist is definitely priority one, as well as being the most obvious.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pesky Splinter posted:

Thankfully people saved it

[e]: Bigger image.

Talking point: It's pretty amazing that the Tories recovery has increased the debt almost as much the Labours response to a global financial crisis did.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Better talking point - the actual rise in the budget deficit under Gideon is actually considerably higher than that graph makes it appear because an awful lot of debt taken on in 07-09 was nationalising and otherwise shoring up the banks, and much of that money has now been paid back. Our PSBR would be in almost exactly the same place had the credit crunch never happened because - and this needs to be branded on the forehead of anyone who talks about the economy like it's a credit card - AUSTERITY DOES NOT REDUCE DEBT.

I was going to say something about that but the bailing out/selling back to private hands is a terrible move so I think it'd have been better to keep the banks and the debt.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

TheHoodedClaw posted:

Brace yourself, people. I fear we may be about to learn rather too much about Nigel Farage's "living arrangements"

Ahaha, that is quite a scoop. loving tabloids though, I'd honestly rather he just never be mentioned again, he's already done his damage.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Yeah that is definitely a powerful motivator.... the problem is that they're wrong and things can and probably will get worse.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

spectralent posted:

Yeah but he's the bad guy and gets blown up. Like, I don't think you can say Captain America is pro-fascist because Red Skull's a nazi.

Apparently Captain America is pro-fascist now.

ANIME AND COMICS ARE BAD.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Prince John posted:

The Beeb have an interesting breakdown of EU referendum voting trends.

They've been piecing things together with lots of FoI requests - the main trends identified before concerning education and age are replicated here, but they've also managed to obtain a much more granular picture than that available previously, even down to the individual ballot box in some places.

Worth a read if you have a few minutes. I also found it interesting that the education correlation with a remain vote was also present for levels of education below that of a degree, so it's not simply about campus contact with ~~foreigns~~.

This only has about 10% of the UK wards in it annoyingly. I've been meaning to do some map stuff with the Trump petitions and if that works then I'll take a look into this, see if it's properly indicative of the UK.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

I wouldn't say it was his fault, but he certainly shares the blame.

Initially for his piss poor performance during the referendum, more recently for his enabling of Tory Brexit policy. Though it turns out his support for the latter explains the former behaviour. He's worse than I ever imagined tbh.

Corbyn did far more appearances arguing for Remain than other Labour members did and yet the press covered the other members more, he couldn't control that.

Gorn Myson posted:

I like how the resistance to the idea of opposing Brexit is that "it would empower the right". In the mean time, the Tories have pushed even further right than they have done in the recent past and they're getting nothing but favourable press over it and they're leagues ahead of any opposition in the polls. On top of this, Farage and Ukip still get a lot of press that is affectionate to their views.

My solution to this is that we all keep quiet and hope that the right doesn't get more empowered, yeah.

Actually I think the resistance to the idea of opposing Brexit is that the general population was directly asked what they wanted and they wanted Brexit. Now there's a hell of a lot of reasons to criticise that as a reason for doing it but instead everyone is basically repeating the same arguments as before the vote, including demanding a rerun later on, which really does just seem to be a case of 'I can't believe I lost' rather than any more developed arguments about why it shouldn't be done.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

jBrereton posted:

"I'd rate the EU as seven... seven and a half... no seven... out of ten" - the most powerful endorsement of the EU and alternative narrative for the left within the EU framework ever delivered

The left shouldn't be supporting the EU, it should be supporting freedom of movement for the planet and not the freedom of labour to move across Europe.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

jBrereton posted:

The notion of workers having the right to migrate across the EU, and have access to healthcare, social services, and even to higher education anywhere in the 27 state bloc is an incredibly powerful left wing idea.

And yet the serious borders we erect around Fortress Europe show that this not some principled position offered for making peoples lives better, it's a way of making Europe a political and economic force of capitalism relevant in the age of superpowers. It's about as leftwing as the Scottish-English border.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Having slept on it I'd actually be all right with Corbyn whipping the other way as well particularly with the amendments failing. It's definitely a harder sell though.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Richard Seymour has done a little on the figures behind that infographic about Labour voters on Brexit; turns out that it's still complicated!

http://www.leninology.co.uk/2017/02/brexit-labour-voters-and-working-class.html

Anyway, there's don't knows all over the place no matter what ends up happening so it's up to Labour to make their case to the public rather than any course dooming them to oblivion.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

OwlFancier posted:

There was a man at work today haranguing everyone in the shop about how everything he didn't like was because it wasn't British and if it was British it would all be better.

Which I'm not sure is true in the case of the POS machine.

Well er, hopefully he wasn't referring to the staff at least?

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Pissflaps posted:

It turns out it's hardly concession at all.

There will be a vote on the final deal, but if Westminster rejects it there won't be a renegotiation - realistically, parliament will never vote against the deal they're presented.

Agreeing with Pissflaps on this page.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Thing is the position of 'I don't really like the EU but it's better to stay in it' was David Camerons position.....

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Glad to see the return of the true, better thread title.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Hell as the white paper showed (and France and Germany and Greece all in the recent past) there's tons of working conditions that the Tories could cut while still being in the EU.

If you reduce class struggle to a labour dispute then the EU is a pretty ironclad minimum wage when you're earning well above it.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Nonsense posted:

Corbyn's finished.

Nah, his election in the first place just ruined the rightwing of Labour and they've still not been able to recover other than pissing and moaning about how much they don't like him, Corbyn will have lost a lot of support over this but internally his opposition is still probably weaker than him. Owen Smith tried the 'I'm Corbyn but not Corbyn!' approach and totally hosed it up and I doubt there was any grand scheme to hold back anyone better than him for a later attempt.

This may well have seriously hampered his attempts at reform internally though and that might eventually spell the end whenever he does decide to call it quits.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

This thread is really showing the truth of that Labour polling which said position on Brexit was more important than previous party loyalty.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Jedit posted:

It weirds me out a bit knowing that Claudia Christian from Babylon 5 had a small but fairly important role in the death of Diana.

Forget all the politics poo poo for the moment, this needs an answer.

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Maybe Fiona Mills is The Saurus' mum.

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namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."


A powerful self-own.

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