The Great Goon War, Slight Return (Super-sized tabletop wargaming)

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Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

In as the Tommies.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 13:34

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:37

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

HEY GAIL posted:

and the poetry has to be bad. i cannot stress enough how terrible it must be.

Why does we hav' ter die France?
With all these Froggies in red pants.
Jerry seems like a decent chap.
With his funny-looking pointy hat.
I think I'll go and work for him.
And eat some kraut straight from a tin.

By Tommy Atkins, age 16

# ¿ Feb 9, 2017 04:03

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Loel posted:

Seeing as how our reinforcements came from the north west and theirs came from the south west, do the French hold the north half of the map now?

Edit: Okay, Im going to be serious. I disagree with those trench lines.

Map around dawn.

I think everyone can agree that St C is going to get stomped in the morning, even as the Boche arrive

Which means French hold St C, with Boche hitting them in the south as French reinforcements arrive

As such, I think the 1915 map should look something closer to this.

I agree with the spirit of this - if not the exact layout. I'd keep the French in the south and the Germans in the north.

Trin, with the greatest respect, the current 1915 lines don't reflect how this battle turned out.

My division was in complete control of Dejuenner and Le Oeuf by the end of the battle. Saying that we now only own half of it erases much of the gains we played and fought our guts out for.

And TBK's men had a strong foothold on Pasteur. If 8 German chits are enough to give them La Crepe and Quatrepouts-- why isn't a brigade with a massive gunline enough to give us at least some of Pasteur? Put another way, if the new German corps wiped out the Frenchmen on Pasteur -- why didn't the new French corps wipe out the Germans in Quatrepouts?

I understand that there's always going to be some things happening behind the GM screen - but I'm struggling to understand this decision. Even if you don't change the 1915 lines, at least help me understand what happened.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 05:05

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

steinrokkan posted:

You are missing the part where Germans sent in an overwhelming force five hours ahead of French reinforcements and connected the gains made by us.

I did take that into account. It'd explain why your men retook Pasteur and Failblempot. But if two corps can drive off a solitary brigade, then La Crepe and Quatreprouts should also have been retaken, especially since that section is very close to where French reinforcements would have entered and very far away from the entry of German troops.

I'll abide with whatever Trin's decision is. I've enjoyed the game and I have no regrets with how I fought my division. But I'm frustrated by off-camera circumstances completely out of our control erasing the gains on one side while cementing the gains of the other.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 08:14

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Trin Tragula posted:

Partly what this man said, with a small slice of "well, if my initial instincts tell me the line should go about there (which was slightly more generous to you in places), if I move the line back to halfway on Dejeuner and back off Pasteur to about here, that opens up some more interesting possibilities for 1915". I may tweak that line further, and you will have some discretion in where you place the actual trenches before the battle begins; that might mean an opportunity to shove forward again some more with (abstracted) local attacks before the big push.

Ok. That sounds fair enough to me.

Thank you for running this, Trin. I really enjoyed myself and look forwards to watching/playing the next game!

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 16:53

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

Gyfcat Link

Here's what the Battle of Saint Croissant looked like (more or less) from the French side of the fighting.

Looking at it, a some things stand out to me.

The difficulty the French team faced. We were never going to get to Saint Croissant first and that set us up for a lot of futile charges. We got the best outcome reasonably possible: a draw/minor German win.
The French 6th Division's (thatbastardken) early engagement on the Eastern flank. The Germans were totally unready for a fight from that direction that early. Destroying the German 19th division (Steinrokkan) that early was a major coup.
The futility of the French attack on Saint Croissant. We threw three brigades into that fight. My 22nd Division sent the 98th (AbortRetryFail) and the 96th (Tehan) and the 6th Division sent the 54th (Hephasto). It wasn't enough. As I feared during the planning phase, we didn't commit enough front-line troops into that fight and had no reserves behind them to back up the assault. The men fought drat well, but sending guts against guns just leads to more guts...
The importance of Clemenceau ridge and the gunline arrayed there. The 99th Brigade (Loel) may not have had a glamorous job, but they did outstanding work anchoring our center and hammering the German center. By holding that hill, he let 22nd Division fight the good fight in the West.
The amount of German firepower against us was enormous, but used inconsistently. I was amazed at how much use they got out of their machine guns and how little use they got out of their heavy artillery.
The drat close-run thing on Dejeunner. Luck and skill work out in our favor on that one. If we'd lost that ridge, we'd have had unassailable German guns on the west and we'd have lost the battle. Special credit to the BEF (Hephasto) and the Hero of the Republic xthetenth for their gallant assault. And to the 175th Reserve Brigade (AbortRetryFail). I rolled the dice with sending them into the fray, and the roll paid off well. ARF cut off German reserves from reaching Dejeunner that might of turned the tide. One of the overlooked, but critical, plays of the game.
The futility of the cavalry assault on Saint Croissant. Looking at how weak the Germans were in the NW, I wish we'd been able to send those men to take La Sanglante Femme or further secure Faiblempot.

Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Mar 6, 2017

# ¿ Mar 6, 2017 05:22

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

steinrokkan posted:

Again, these imagined difficulties are the result of your narrow focus, rather than of inherent problems with the scenario. As you can see from the events that transpired later in the day, it was up to French to merely pick a better time for their assault to entirely eviscerate the defenses. Both sides suffered a lot from not having any god drat patience at all.

To clear the air for a moment. Speaking for myself (and I think for the whole French team), this was a very fun game to play. Trin did a HUGE number of things right. The scale of the map and the relative force size was excellent. The speed of updates was great. I�m amazed at how fast Trin was able to process so many complex moves with basically no errors.

Trin created a scenario that passed the single biggest test of this kind of game: it was fun. I enjoyed it greatly and look forwards to the next time around.

But like every other red-blooded goon, I enjoy having a fighting chance at outright winning. And looking back on things, I do feel that, given the roads, the deployment zones and the objectives � the French team�s path to victory was fundamentally narrower than the German team�s.

Could the French have won? Sure. But to do so, the French had to pitch a perfect game in the face of some very real difficulties. The Germans had a much easier go of things.

Firstly, the location of the objectives heavily favored a team deploying in the NE corner of the map. The roads gave the German team a direct route to Saint Croissant.

Would anyone like to seriously dispute that getting the Saint Croissant first was not extremely advantageous to the Germans? And would anybody with a ruler and a map like to contend that the French could have the gotten there first?

Given the terrain, the French were going to have to assault Saint Croissant, while the Germans would have the luxury of defending it. And that is the crux of why this battle favored the Germans.

Secondly, there�s an imbalance between offense and defense inherent in c.1914 warfare. This is historical and it is one thing the Spearhead rules simulate extremely well. Whoever gets to strategic ground first will probably keep it.

A) Machine guns and heavy artillery are king at this point � and they are tools well-suited for the defense. The Germans, as they did in history, had more of both. That let them chop up every French infantry attack against them.

B) Urban terrain, wire, and entrenchments give the defender a big advantage. By getting to Saint Croissant first, the Germans could get into cover and concealment in town. Every hour the French spent waiting for a "better time" and marshaling a large-scale attack meant the Germans had more time to dig in, neutralizing the power of the French's limited MGs and 75mms to support such an attack.

C) Organization and communication favor the defender, not the attacker. In Spearhead, attackers have to create detailed and highly coordinated plans built on guesswork and exacting timetables. Defenders get to sit there and shoot.

I don't mind being the underdog. I just like knowing I'm the underdog beforehand, something I hope future games will be a little more open about. Unless this round was some kind of Kobiyashi Maru scheme on Trin's part.

Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 6, 2017

# ¿ Mar 6, 2017 17:50