|
Oasx posted:I don't really see the Mojo comparison, they don't look much alike. The resemblance isn't any more of a stretch than it is to what Shadow King looks like in the comics. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 28, 2017 |
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 05:52
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
MOVIE MAJICK posted:Is Iron Fist good? No. It occasionally rises to mediocrity, and every time it does, it can't even hold up to that standard.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2017 05:57
|
|
|
night slime posted:The show's pretty straightforward after a while. I imagine that really is Syd from the future, and everything from the trailers and next episode preview seems to indicate that. Everything about the visual storytelling suggests that no, it's a delusion. But it's obvious enough that the show might just be loving with us on purpose, and I kind of hope so. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
double nine posted:If I were Cary I'd be extremely weary of experimenting on David ever again. You don't know if all of your equipment is gonna explode or if you're gonna get an irresistible urge to dance your socks off Cary's one of my favorite characters on the show. He's this seemingly timid nerd, but his other half / alter ego is a young woman who can stand up to a SWAT team with a joke and a smile, and when he's faced with dangerous, god-like powers beyond his comprehension his first impulse is always curiosity. He's simultaneously portrayed as almost having a death wish, but also being incredibly helpful as an ally and a researcher because of it, and because of the tension between his expressed desire for safety on the one hand and how he actually acts on the other.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2018 17:44
|
|
|
Proteus Jones posted:Future Sid was real Sid nice catch!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2018 00:34
|
|
|
At any rate, if you're making a TV show and you put an enormous straw basket over someone's head and make them immune to telepathy, their head and what's inside of it are probably important. 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2018 23:50
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:I liked the basket-view shots. Farouk's growl when he's finally cornered to agree to not-killing. The half-conversation between Lenny and Farouk leaving her fate unclear. And the Banana Splits song. I watched it on Nick at Nite, so a little before my time, but would've been right on track for Cary's age. I need to double-check, but hasn't every appearance of the slime trail occurred leading up to a scene where both David and Syd are present? And didn't Shadow King briefly pass through her mind on the way to Oliver's? Maybe she's the one with an invasive delusion.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
I don't see what's confusing or difficult about "both" given that Shadow King is also a samurai, a whirlwind, a creepy children's book come to life, and an enormously obese demonic figure. Also David has a line of dialogue while he's arguing with Clark where he explains that Shadow King wears different people's psychic impressions in order to conceal himself from detection or pursuit. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Apr 12, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
"Ruined?" 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2018 21:27
|
|
|
McGrady posted:Any speculation on wtf was up with the cow? Was it there because of David, the monk, or Shadow King, or something else? And the monk in the corner with the weird body horror flesh cables wired in to the cyborg was ... disturbing. I think the cow is either psychic camouflage -- a weird artifact of someone deflecting attention away from themselves despite obviously being out of place -- or it's David's powers going haywire and creating physical manifestations of his state of mind. Knowing a little bit about comics Legion also makes me think these two options aren't even necessarily exclusive.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2018 20:44
|
|
|
Her point is that love is precious but vulnerable and a vulnerability, not that it's worthless.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
So It Goes posted:So did Syd’s mom just literally never touch her child ever? How does she not know or ever find about about her child’s ability. When did Syds ability even become active? There's a scene in this episode where her mother touches her when she was a baby, and it makes her cry (but doesn't cause a body swap). They show this same scene like four or five times.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2018 19:49
|
|
|
I think Fukuyama is the delusion, or part of it. I don't think there really is any such person.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2018 02:45
|
|
|
I don't think this was a bad episode per se but I think I would have enjoyed it much more if I hadn't waited a week between episodes.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2018 23:56
|
|
|
Yeah, I think the point is less "phones bad" and more "the map is not the territory."
|
|
#
¿
May 25, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
I don't think it's all a dream, but I think reality is behaving in dream-like ways as a consequence of David's powers. The Shadow King's made several comments that almost directly point this out, assuming you trust his assessment.
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Hire Bryan Fuller but just don't tell him that Noah Hawley is shadowing him and ready to step into his place the moment the relationship with the studio goes sour.
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2018 23:22
|
|
|
I expected the Minotaur to be some kind of stand-in for somebody or something we knew, and not, just, like, a minotaur that lives in a maze. I guess that could still happen but I'm enjoying how blase they are about it.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2018 00:55
|
|
|
night slime posted:I wonder if Farouk was right that he was a "gift" since he inevitably goes insane anyway according to the comic backstory. He was keeping him sane for 30 years then he starts to lose it with the personalities right after he leaves, indicated by him talking to himself at Divison 3. In the parallel universes episode, the only one where David was fully functional was one where it was implied that Farouk was still with him, IIRC.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2018 23:16
|
|
|
David's always been a bit selfish, and we just saw that expressed in a way that's totally believable and totally horrifying. Trying to codify this into heroes and villains is dumb to begin with, but it's very much in character for David to try to "fix things" when they break and to think he's owed something for his suffering. Ironically (and tragically) Syd herself kind of reinforced that thought. Rather than "villain" the way I would put it this that this episode should have shaken you out of David's perspective, at least for a moment -- made you think "oh gently caress, his very existence is terrifying." And of course Shadow King is exploiting and amplifying this. Not necessarily in the sense of some Rube Goldbergian psychic master plan, maybe just in the sense that as an utterly selfish creature who's lived in David's head for most of his life he knows how to make him vulnerable and how to force his hand.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 05:33
|
|
|
ekeog posted:i looked other places and there's a whole lot of "david was just removing the shadow king's brainwashing that literally made her try to kill him" going round. This is not a failing of the series. You absolutely should think that, for a second; it's exactly what David's thinking and we're along for the ride with him. Then you should have a moment of introspection and realize how hosed up and self-serving that is.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 05:38
|
|
|
ekeog posted:i agree with you that this is what they were going for, but i think it did not accomplish that nearly as well as it could have I think they accomplished it perfectly and that if they tried to remove the ambiguity and messiness you seem to object to it wouldn't be even half as effective a statement. It's necessary for David to be able to excuse this to himself, to be able to believe there were mitigating circumstances, that it's all a conspiracy against him, that he was just fighting back on the same terms that Farouk set, and so on -- that's the temptation. The thing is, circumstances don't actually mitigate what he did, and while it may or may not in fact be a conspiracy, he can't morally afford to fight on Farouk's terms, because Farouk is a monster. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jun 13, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 05:43
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:I think everyone realizes how bad that was and his actions afterwards were even worse. He's the only person on Earth who might be able to stand up to David. They spent almost the entire season establishing that. 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
Also think about who's present at the trial. Fukuyama and Clark were pretty hostile towards him to begin with, because they're basically approaching this from the angle of "protect the world from the insane god-like mutant who might do anything." He's a new and apocalyptic force while SK has been around for ages and, while dangerous and evil, hasn't ended the world yet. Syd has a very good reason to distrust him right now and has the Shadow King whispering in her ear, again. Kerry probably has a better scientific understanding of what David and SK are respectively capable of than anyone, and like Syd he knows (or "knows") that he ends up having to fight David in the future, in his case by designing the orb trap. Cary's not likely to disagree with Kerry much to begin with, and she's also pretty good at evaluating threats and prioritizing (if probably in a somewhat nearsighted way, at that.)
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
double nine posted:I'm enjoying the current setup for next season. I admit I like villain protagonists, and Farouk deff. fits the bill, and david isn't a villain but certainly an antagonist. His mental instability is more problematic than Farouk's desire to be the totalitarian divine ruler of his own fiefdom, if only because of scale. Pretty much. One of my favorite things about how this season wrapped up is it's directly addressing something I've always thought about Superman -- that really, if people like that existed, they'd basically exist in a context similar to international politics where law and morality don't really have much weight or any enforcement mechanism besides consensus, and it's all just power relations. It's "better" to have a monster or a dictator who you can predict, get along with, and who won't nuke everything than a madman (or, arguably, even just a sufficiently uncompromising idealist) who might do anything and doesn't care about the established norms of conduct.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
Also the purpose of Division 3, specifically, is to counteract existential mutant threats. Shadow King is the devil they know, and he was kicking around for centuries until Professor X felt compelled to do something about it. David on the other hand is a wild card who was barely tolerated as long as he seemed stable and cooperative. He's more dangerous -- not more evil, but remember, it's Division 3. His friends aside, they don't give a poo poo about "more evil." And then he started secretly working with the enemy, taking orders from the future, planting images in people's head in order to pull off a Rube Goldbergian assassination plot, having conversations with himself, and then, finally, horrifically betrayed the one person they all thought he was completely loyal and committed to. And his friends? Their position was still "please, let us help you, you're not well." Even after what he did to Syd. And yeah it's with a proverbial gun to his head, yeah it's with Farouk set free as a desperate last-ditch safeguard, but again, Cary, Kerry, and Syd probably aren't the ones making executive decisions here.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:We've also seen a future where he is left alone and off his meds, and he's a relatively harmless hobo (unless provoked). Unless provoked, in which case he could literally end the world. I don't think you guys are grasping how bad "god-like powers" and "unmedicated schizophrenic" are as a combination. Farouk is more vile but he's not "unstable." He wants power, obedience, and luxury and would be bored out of his wits without people to rule over. Aside from the fact that he's one man with psychic powers and not a nation-state, we deal with that every day anyways.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:05
|
|
|
Barreft posted:I still don't get Fukuyama and the weirdass moustache girls. So maybe this is something he wants, and the Kerryss/Syd don't even know. I'm thinking they let Farouk in like that on purpose. Think about it from Division 3's point of view: - There's a new, incredibly powerful mutant out there (David) who has to be contained or destroyed because, as far as they know, he's mentally ill and prone to violence. - He disappears, and then all of his friends show up on their doorstep and tell them that David was being controlled by this other mutant who's been low-key creeping around forever and might have something to do with this teeth-chattering plague that's incapacitating tons of civilians and might be contagious. Okay, sure, that's the priority now. - David comes back, is apparently not mentally ill, is almost fully cooperative. Clark still hates his guts. Fukuyama was created out of hostility towards and fear of exactly this kind of mutant, but is willing to work with him for now since they have an understanding. Farouk is still the priority. - Woops, the teeth chattering plague wasn't actually Farouk, David is mentally ill after all, can't make up his mind if he's working with or against Farouk before finally deciding to murder him on his own initiative, and is willing to violate his lover's mind and torture his friend, nevermind what he might do to a total stranger or to someone like Clark who's always mutually hated him anyways. Also, the future version of his lover reports that he does in fact cause the apocalypse and Farouk's the only one who can stop him. Now, remember, you're an amoral government agency led by a guy whose purpose in life is "stop telepaths from killing / enslaving us all" and his lieutenant is another guy with a personal vendetta against David who's just been itching for him to gently caress up. Who's the priority now? Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
The show basically sets you up to experience David's dysphoria about who he is and what's happening to him and for some reason people think this is a) bad and b) an accident.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:24
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:David's not crazy though, that's the thing. Disturbed, anti-heroic, but not crazy. That was actually determined in the storyline. This is the exact opposite of what was determined in the storyline. He's been having conversations with the split personalities (that were finally fully revealed this episode) since the first few episodes of this season, at least.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:even if you buy the show's hamfisted idea that he somehow committed an unforgivable sin by mind wiping Syd who was ready to shoot him dead based on Hannibal Lector bullshit. To wit, if he was that dangerous as the show says, he would have killed every single one of Division 3 and his so-called friends after being freed, but he took Lenny and bolted. He erased her memory so he could rewind her personality back to a time when she still loved him, and then had sex with her. It is not "hamfisted" to imply that this is in fact really fuckin' bad.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:An angel and devil on his shoulder who serve as fodder for his introspection. Farouk they are not. And if he is crazy, then poo poo, put the man on some meds and call it a day. For a nutjob, he's pretty high-functioning. I think by this point the show has been quite clear that "it's just a metaphor" is completely wrong. They are not the angel and devil on his shoulder. They are delusions, symptoms of his insanity, one of whom is urging him to abandon humanity and do whatever he wants, and the other of whom is pushing him to wallow in self-loathing. Shitenshi posted:He mind wiped her because she had just taken a shot at him based on Farouk's manipulation and would have loving killed him. Come to think of it, shouldn't the video have included the footage of her turning on him? Why wasn't anyone asking why she had taken a hostile turn against him? Why didn't anyone ask where she had been before that even? If he could mind-wipe her, then his powers were functioning, which means she's about as much of a physical threat to him as an ant. You're also conveniently ignoring the "and then he had sex with her" part, and his motivations for wiping her mind Mind you, it would still have been sketchy to erase someone's memories even if it were just to combat a psychic attack (which David has undone once already without erasing anyone's memory) and even more sketchy to do it just to combat mundane misinformation, but, again, David didn't stop there. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:41
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:In that timeline, he got killed by Kerry without too much of an issue. True, but we have no idea what kind of setup that required and it was a version of David who was barely aware of his surroundings. e: My speculative theory would be that that's a David whose personalities are deadlocked. Now imagine one where Yellow Shirt David (Dav-Id? ) wins and takes full control.
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 03:49
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:I'm not sure about the physics of mutant powers and how it relates to mundane situations, but she still could have offed him. Kerry got him good in one timeline. If you're right about him being that strong, well he didn't exactly make any movements to subdue her or stop the bullet, the show made it clear that Lenny saved him at the last minute. And then there's the motivation part. I'm pretty sure it was just bringing her back to normal, and the rape storyline literally seemed like an afterthought the show cooked up. Where on Earth are you getting the bolded part?  The show is pretty clear. Syd goes to shoot him, Lenny notices and shoots, the bullets collide, it creates a shockwave and sends both Syd and David flying. They're both unconscious, David wakes up first, and after a brief conference with his split personalities -- who are egging him on to do this -- he crawls over to Syd and holds his hand to her head. There's no way she could have hurt him at that point. She's unconscious, and he has his powers back. He has all the time in the world to talk it through with her once they're home, to figure out with everyone's help how to put things right if she's under SK's control. And that's if this even is an implanted delusion and not just regular old lying and cherry-picked truths, which seems much more likely. (Even the mouse doesn't have to be psychic manipulation -- because for the Shadow King just telling her / reminding her of the truth in that moment would ruin David's life and be better revenge against him than anything else. It's perfect, and SK loves that poo poo. It also happens while he still has his crown on and his overt psychic powers are pretty limited.) Fully half the episode is David dealing with the fallout of his decision -- Shadow King taunting him, Kerry discovering his betrayal, Syd's hurt, and then the trial. It's not an afterthought, it's the point the whole season's been foreshadowing. (If you want to rewatch this stuff to catch the details, it starts right around 20 minutes in, although there's a minute or two of Lenny stuff mixed in there.) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 04:07
|
|
|
Here's a thought, even if erasing someone's memory is equivalent to medicating them for their own good (which it isn't, and the show straight-up has Syd look at the camera and tell you it isn't) maybe don't sleep with someone you just forcefully and secretly administered anti-psychotics to.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 04:25
|
|
|
Shitenshi posted:Yes, Syd was angry at David after being returned to a state of either being under some level of Farouk's power or just back in a state of mind where she had been kidnapped and hated her boyfriend because of some Stockholm's syndrome nonsense, while not minding the person who set her on that path to begin with running free. I don't know if it was Hawley's intent, but the scene comes off as very ambiguous. Syd was angry at David for doing a bunch of things that he really did do, and that he didn't want her to remember -- and didn't let her. He denied her agency even more forcefully that Farouk did when he was disguised as Melanie. Shitenshi posted:Furthermore, a good deal of time had passed after the whole ordeal in the desert. It wasn't like he immediately mind wiped her and was willing to have his way with her right then and there. I think she had gotten her bearings back and they were just talking like old times once he visits her with his mental projection. Come on dude. Of course they were "talking like old times" because she still doesn't remember what happened. It doesn't matter how much later it is, she's still under the effects.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 04:42
|
|
|
Zachack posted:This is a somewhat poor argument given that the reverse applies during the confrontation at the end, and in far less stressful conditions. Expecting an emotionally unstable person to revert to calm rational behavior after getting into a near-loss psychic super-fight, nearly getting murdered by a woman that he loves and thinks loves him, and then suffering a concussion is a bit much. David assuming that her mind was corrupted by the SK and quickly-but-messily mashing ctrl-z so he could go back to bashing the SK's skull in (I don't recall if D3 was there yet but I thought not) is a fairly reasonable set of actions, and the end of the episode states as much: much as David can't see how others perceive him, Syd didn't seem to realize how others would perceive her actions at that moment - David is stammering a bit but he was portrayed as genuinely confused at some of the accusations in the desert. This is kind of a separate issue. I don't think that David made a completely rational decision, or that he wasn't under a ton of stress to undo something that was threatening to unravel his life. But he made the wrong decision and the whole point of the scene with the alternate personalities immediately beforehand is that they have to talk him into it -- he should know better, and on some level he does. Zachack posted:Having Kerry frame David's action as "treachery" is also unearned unless his magic welding mask was also psychic - from his perspective Syd should have come across as possessed. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 14, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 12:42
|
|
|
DaveKap posted:Also, if Farooq was genuine with his insistence that he was trying to get David to love him (ha) why did he manifest himself as a gross yellow-eyed monster man? A suave dude with sweet sunglasses probably would've come across better. Probably because that's what he really is (at least symbolically), and it's hard to hide yourself from someone completely when you live inside their head. Remember for most of David's childhood he manifested as a golden retriever, and then when he grew up a bit more, as Aubrey Plaza. I think he was choosing these forms strategically for the most part.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 12:45
|
|
|
David is unequivocally in the wrong in what he did to Syd, and is also in a situation where his enemy is gleefully taking advantage. There's no contradiction between the two. David has genuine reasons to be angry and hurt, which he is clinging to so he can ignore the things that he did to hurt others -- rejecting information that contradicts his self-image. It's exactly what's described in John Hamm's monologues.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 14, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
Proteus Jones posted:They are, but I would avoid using the word “just” when describing any part of the show. As we’ve seen, the music (and their attendant lyrics when applicable) has almost always been deliberately relevant to the show, so I would not be surprised in any if it‘s the case here. Even if they are a hint, the next lyric after that is "YOU BET YOUR LIFE IT IS" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv29vC7ojM8 e: Also just generally, Cornflake Girl is a song about being betrayed by someone you trusted and not wanting to believe it. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 16, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Jun 16, 2018 01:22
|
|