LEGION - "This will make you vomit" - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > LEGION - "This will make you vomit"

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Shageletic posted:

So I'm going to buy this as my avatar

Anyone got any suggestions to write below it? I'm trying to think of a quote that something to do about tapes. You get extra points if it's related to Trump/politics. Thanks!

So that's what happened to Michelle's whitey tapes.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2017 11:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 9, 2024 14:32

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

savinhill posted:

I'm not familiar with the comic book version of the Shadow King, but on this show, both his and The Angriest Boy in the World's look and design remind me most of the aesthetics of some of the creatures and characters from Floyd's The Wall movie. I'm curious if that's specifically the case, as Floyd has been a big influence in other ways for Hawley with the making of Legion.

I'm holding out hope we get something like this at the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3M0uTIt3zA

# ¿ Mar 29, 2017 03:13

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Taear posted:

The green pointy hands and the cow feel now just like random for the sake of it.

Didn't someone at the time point out that, in the context of the Jon Hamm bit about red/green and stop/go, green fingers pointing at David would basically mean "Stop him"? Just imagine the pointy hands are red, and they make sense with what we've seen so far: David is dangerous.

The cow is actually a white horse. You're just watching it wrong.

# ¿ May 18, 2018 22:41

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

I dig the Shadow King's new crown. Hope he keeps it.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2018 03:51

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

SimonChris posted:

Syd trying to kill David is particularly dumb because she later says that she just want David to get treatment. Then why did you try to kill him? Why is no one else questioning this? You can hardly blame David for assuming she must be under mental control and trying to fix her.

it's almost like somebody hosed with her head right after she pulled the trigger

# ¿ Jun 18, 2018 09:02

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Necrothatcher posted:

I actually like David's "what does it matter if I kill them all now if I just fix time afterwards so it never happens?" argument. I mean, he's kind of right.

Like Syd tried to argue, it's an argument that only works from David's POV. The Syd that fell in love and everything else is going to be utterly unmade; her consciousness will stop, no different than dying.

Following his logic, none of the people David knows now are "real people." None of the people he will ever know can be "real people" because he can always pull a redo for himself, and the logical endpoint of that POV is a sort of solipsism where nothing David does ever matters or means anything, not like the bits of motherhood that Lenny had meant something to her. He's just concocted an elaborate excuse to not have to look at himself or his actions with any sort of scrutiny.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 01:36

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Zachack posted:

But that box already opened in the first episode of the season when Switch undid David's death. Syd is already erased. So is David. Time travel and souls don't really mesh. So if Switch went back in time to the last 15 minutes of season 2 and kicked David in the nuts then from David and Syds perspective everything would be fine and David would still be with the Syd he knows.

A Syd was already erased. The Syd talking to David in the most recent episode is not that Syd because, as you say, that Syd was erased. This contemporary one has no memory of either successful attack; from this Syd's POV, they showed up at David's and found a crater. If Switch did as you say, then the Syd that David currently knows--i.e., the Syd that he raped--would disappear, so no, it would not be "the Syd he knows." It would be the Syd he knew.

I have no idea what souls have to do with any of this unless you're trying to tie it to some ineffable, permanent concept of self, but it's hardly necessary.

Zachack posted:

Essentially, why is the current time stream the correct one?

Because it is the one in which people currently exist.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 20:57

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Zachack posted:

No, it would be the Syd that David knows, because it would be the David that the audience knew, up until that moment. The David in the conversation in the last episode would also cease to exist.

Yeah I lost you here. I'm not trying to be insulting or anything. The conversation just officially got too abstract.

quote:

The concept of self or souls or whatever is relevant because

Doesn't seem to follow if our current existence has no intrinsic value. Kicking David in the nuts would seem to be a better outcome for most of the characters from the last episode. Switch has already obliterated at least two universes, what's one more?

What I'm saying (and what Syd was trying to explain to David) is that the people who currently exist matter more than people who do not. That's all. Therefore, the current existence--whatever it is, however hosed up it is--has value over an existence that does not yet exist, and it is wrong to forcibly wipe away all of those current lives even if the goal is to replace them with something "better."

As far as Switch goes, I've been reading her as a villain. When she talks about everybody else being robots and stuff, she reminds me of the Jon Hamm voiceovers about delusion from last season. She thinks like a sociopath.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2019 02:31

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:

I don't get why Melanie was happy about the fantasy ending at the end.

I can't remember the exchange exactly, but it seemed like she was missing memories; it's the scene where she says something about Syd being someone "from before," and Oliver says "there is no 'before' for us" and she just kind of nods. I assumed she was happy because she was getting her memories/full identity back after going through the charade.

(Oliver seemed like he remembered everything though, or knew how to recall his memories at will.)

J33uk posted:

I think she was happy to see Oliver get a little passion back and fight for what's right. He'd mostly been pretty passive about the wolf; "We need to move". This was him stepping up and confronting him head on while balancing that with mercy and not melting him.

I dunno, he seemed like he knew what he was doing. He wasn't being passive exactly; he just didn't respond with aggression. He wanted Syd's faux-childhood to go in a certain order so she'd learn love before hate and safety before conflict and so on. It fucks that up if Syd sees him going off to fight all the time, so he instead tries to talk her around and through the frightening things that prompt the Wolf to show up. In Oliver's view, that's what will give her the sense of security and confidence to do the right things herself.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2019 06:36

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

beanieson posted:

That’s a great music number. So we’re changing the past there already right? Syd being there to encourage David’s Mom made her a better mom and made David strong enough to break out if Farouk’s straight jacket.

Maybe, but "Mother" has some pretty ominous overtones considering this is a story about a guy with an absent dad (who served in ww2). In The Wall, the context is it's about an overprotective, smothering mom. "Mama's gonna help build the wall" is very much not a good thing.

e: \/ then again I might've misread that sequence...

# ¿ Aug 13, 2019 03:31

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Corte posted:

Thinking about it you're right since what connects with me emotionally won't necessarily resonate with others and what I find thought provoking someone else might find cliche or banal. I knew it was a tall order when I asked but thanks for trying, I'll definitely check out Magicians.

Did anybody suggest Maniac on Netflix? It has a similar kind of style, especially how they mix together technology props from a lot of different eras and treat them all like it's the most advanced poo poo on the planet. There's also some similar subject matter because a lot of it's about a mentally ill character.

It does have a little more style than substance, but I still enjoyed it a lot.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2019 21:36

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

Vernacular posted:

The "Mother" cover as the emotional peak of the show perfectly encapsulated this weird coexistence of comfort and chaos: things may feel warm and gooey but is this feeling to be trusted?

About that. That was definitely the musical peak of the episode, but the central conflict still hadn't been resolved at that point, and I think the show was suggesting that David would need both parents around if he was going to turn out okay and in control of himself. At the "Mother" point in the episode, Gabrielle had been convinced to love and nurture David, but Charles' would still be out of the picture, so we're getting hints of what it might be like if Gabrielle tried to raise David alone. Also, Gabrielle tells Charles at the end that "things don't make sense when you're not around" and "I can't do this without you."

It's kind of a yucky message for single parents.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2019 18:10

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 9, 2024 14:32

AtraMorS: Feb 29, 2004; If at the end of a war story you feel that some tiny bit of rectitude has been salvaged from the larger waste, you have been made the victim of a very old and terrible lie

beanieson posted:

Well, she had pretty serious PTSD. I don�t think the show was trying to make any statements about single moms.

Yeah, very true. David's mental illnesses might also be hereditary, so even with Farouk removed from his mind, he still might have a difficult childhood/adulthood; having a parent around who has some superhuman expertise in that kind of thing would definitely be helpful.

It's just that they made the point in a vague way that doesn't really call attention to those things. You have to look back a couple of episodes or more for that context, and in the moment, it kinda came off as "Two parents good, one parent bad."

I don't mean it as a condemnation or anything, just that the finale maybe didn't make its case as strongly as it could've.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2019 19:41

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > LEGION - "This will make you vomit"