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I believe the state of US education is...
Doing very well...
Could be better...
Horrendously hosed...
I have no idea because I only watch Fox News...
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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

Panzeh posted:

Yeah, the problem with the teaching profession is that it's the easiest profession to get into off of a college education but it also pays poorly which means people who could be doing something else probably won't do teaching. The glut of teachers makes it a very hard field to get into unless you're committed to it early.
It depends where you live. In New York you can clear $120 working in the DOE and if you're good enough in the charters, you get promoted to leadership and make in that ballpark.

I came from TV. My last co-teacher was a former chef. I've worked with lawyers. My fiance who also teachers has her Masters in neurology from Columbia.

We could definitely do other poo poo.

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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

litany of gulps posted:

Since when were teachers employed for 40 hours a week? Last I checked I was on a salary, like most of the professional workforce, where you work as much you need to work to accomplish your goals.
Depends on your contract. In NYC, it's assumed that you can reasonably get your work done during your prep and admin which is very optimistic, but there you go. Any time where the school is requiring you to work extra (Parent/teacher conference for example), you make money on top of that. So there are clear distinctions in regards to hours.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Teachers have really strong unions and probably the best nominal work hours of any profession. But then an expectation to do 50% or more of their work "on their own time" and to spend a ton of their own money on work. And it always feels like attitudes on homework by teachers is informed by teacher's own really weird work situation. Like if teaching somehow in the future settled on being an 8 hour a day and then go home job I bet attitudes on homework would quickly mirror that idea. =0
It depends. I honestly don't think anyone can stick with teaching without learning to not take work home with you. Part of the problem with teaching, a problem heightened with charters and TFA, is that it gets a lot of kids right out of college. When I first started, I was fine doing deep dives into kids writing with a glass of bourbon, staying up to 1 AM, lesson planning at bars with friends. I was basically treating teaching like college.

Now all the necessary stuff gets done at school. Having concise and efficient feedback isn't just good for you, but for the kids. You learn to train kids to grade. You learn what work can be marked for completion for the sake of investing kids in class, and what work needs to be leveraged. And you build an instinct that is stronger than the longer preparation you used to do.

Right now my school forces us to stay till 4:30 with the kids leaving at 3:50. And I almost never take work home. It's become so rare that I don't even mind when I do because it makes me nostalgic for when I was a young and an idiot.

For me, it's not about the work you're doing at home. It's just that it's an incredibly and uniquely mentally taxing job.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006

litany of gulps posted:

It's more complicated than this, though, isn't it? There are some grade levels where I don't have to prep much at all, because I've done it before. But I don't like staying in the same place, and that complicates things. I have a dozen resources and readings and plans for the British Industrial Revolution. I hit a stumbling block when approaching it from the American perspective. It's the same thing, the questions and presentations aren't much different, but a new perspective is a complication and adds planning time.

I'm experienced enough that with no preparation I can execute a reasonable enough lesson. I say no preparation, but I find the readings and think about the arc of the lesson in advance. I prep it all in the morning. It's more complicated than that, though. If I'm teaching AP Literature, these are 18 year old kids about to go on to college. I can't have them grade each other. They need individual feedback. I have 120 essays of 3-5 pages each, and I may have a bunch of those. It's complicated.

I can build a solid lesson in 30-45 minutes. I have a tremendous amount of background knowledge and context and experience. I know how to ask the right questions. I know how to present the right texts. I know how to balance lecture and independent and group work.

Next year I'll have 4 preps, as I understand it. I'll have one period off every other day. I'll have nearly 200 students. It's complicated. There's no escaping some of those basic facts, no strategy or work-hack or whatever that turns them into a non-issue. I'm not fresh off of the assembly line.
I'm sorry, my post was speaking from narrow experience, but I think the bigger point I wanted to get across is that it's not really the amount of work. Even if you get it to what is essentially a 9-5 schedule and hardly do work at home, it's still an uniquely demanding and draining experience. Trying to quantify it in terms of hours isn't really doing it justice. But I definitely wrote way too broadly.

Ogmius815 posted:

I don't understand homework outside of math. Math homework is obviously important (or at least it was for me) because repetition is the way to build that skill. For other subjects homework other than reading and the occasional writing assignment always seems like a waste of time. The amount of work assigned in college always seemed more sensible, and outside of math and science it was almost always just reading.
Here's the thing though, kids need models for how to do a lot of poo poo. The kids I teach don't know how to read meaningfully and don't have people at home to guide them to do that. So giving a five to fifteen minute writing assignment that they do after the reading isn't intended to police their reading but rather guide it. A lot of kids have an easier time if they have a question in their head that is jumpstarting their brain and acting as a guide through the text.

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