"Professional" StarCraft Brood War- The Once and Future E-sport

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > "Professional" StarCraft Brood War- The Once and Future E-sport

«‹›3 »

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Milo and POTUS posted:

What's the technical reason for this?

AI development started in the mid '00s. Blizzard/community haven't done bindings for scr as far as I know, and there are likely other technical reasons like bnet2.0 integration.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Mar 5, 2021

# ¿ Mar 5, 2021 16:56

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 20:13

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Milo and POTUS posted:

In remastered whats with the discrepancy between the in-game apm figure (above the unit bar) and the post game APM?

Average vs immediate. If it's off by a factor of 67/42 or 42/67 then it's being translated to normal speed from fastest, but I don't think SCR does anything like that.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2021 19:45

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Aces High posted:

Does Tasteless stream? I imagine that's probably an ideal set up so you can watch your chat log and stuff.

Or maybe streamers do things completely different than that, I have never streamed so I don't really know

Most streamers have 2-3 monitors.

Tasteless does stream. Not as frequently as artosis.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2021 03:49

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Day 2 went up yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvAzOkYX-CY

Outside of some sound work that could be a bit better the casts are pretty great. Day 2 also features better mic stuff than day1 so hopefully it continues to improve.

My favorite youtube comment points out that Tasteless should be on the other side of Artosis.

Day 2's games were pretty hit or miss. One protoss player had a really, really bad day the likes of which I haven't seen in an ASL and another zerg player had a bad day where his execution didn't hit the levels necessary for some of the things he tried to work at that level.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Apr 17, 2021

# ¿ Apr 17, 2021 18:04

Khorne: May 1, 2002

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

e: drat that last match whipped rear end

A lot of good matches in this one.

action vs jyj was a great game, jyj vs best was a great game.

e: Just saw the last game. Yeah that was a really good game.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 19, 2021

# ¿ Apr 19, 2021 14:43

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Nostalgamus posted:

Featuring a wonderfully specific counterbuild in game 3.

mini vs miso was a great game too.

I really liked day6.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2021 23:04

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Mata posted:

Hope tastosis stick to what they're good at!
As far as I can tell they're not delivering on their stretch goal of casting the commercials which is fine, i don't care, im here for the SC matches and if I'm watching actively i just skip to the games anyway. They probably didn't even check with ASL if they're allowed to talk over the ads in a restream before they put up that stretch goal.

If they do some extra patreon content like they're hinting at I hope it's more games and tournaments, not casted commercials and Instagram influencer-style content.

They seem really behind and are catching up. If they do something with commercials it will likely be in the coming weeks.

They also seem to be trying to get a cadence with taking breaks, etc. RO16 d2 had a weird moment where you could tell they'd been at it a bit too long and should have taken a break.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 6, 2021

# ¿ May 6, 2021 15:58

Khorne: May 1, 2002

I'm happy larva made it. Feel like that guy gets minimal respect for being one of the best active zerg. Everyone else is losing to protoss. I get that he's not a "next level" type of player, and he did fall apart completely in that one game he was winning, but he usually executes very well and makes solid decisions even when his opponents have a slight build order edge. Like just massing lings vs the zealot opener even though they were all going to die or massing scourge vs the corsairs. Most other players would have done something different with sunkens/hydras and not committed so hard to having 30 scourge flying around vs 12 corsairs. They'd also probably have gotten ran over or picked apart over the next 10 minutes like we keep seeing lately. A true champion of the ogre zergs out there even if he did stop making lots of mutas.

I hope we see Bisu fully return to form soon. Not from past-hype but from "drat that guy makes good choices".

Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 10, 2021

# ¿ May 8, 2021 18:09

Khorne: May 1, 2002

D4: Hero vs Rush game2 what the heck. Hero was contained but still got a defiler out on the map. When hero broke out of the contain his play was insane. He had defilers everywhere all of a sudden and was controlling four fronts at once while macroing. Impressive control & not something we see frequently. The way rush held the bottom left early was impressive too. Can't be stressed enough how bad of a map fighting spirit is in the early game for terran.

The opening TvT was fun. The later TvTs were something. Lots of offbeat games.

Heavy_D posted:

RO16 D3 final match: Snow's elevator counter to Bisu's DT rush was great to watch, and it'll be interesting to see if it does become a kind of standard counter. Maybe it isn't so good if you don't have a) Snow's amazing ability to block the DT before detection is up and b) a spot in the base without vision to drop the first batch of units.

Bisu was scouting for the elevator and then moved to the front at the wrong time. He would have likely held if he kept checking, and he definitely thought it might be coming. It just came a bit later than he expected.

Bisu's games were like that in ro16. He did the right things and knew what was happening but had weird gaps in his play while snow played solid and exploited every little mistake -- sometimes by accident like with the elevator timing coming seconds after bisu was looking for it.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:43 on May 10, 2021

# ¿ May 10, 2021 14:27

Khorne: May 1, 2002

The final RO8 match is up and it's pretty good.

# ¿ May 31, 2021 17:54

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Heavy_D posted:

Yeah, the first two RO8 games were very much dominated by heavy commitment to unconventional early games, which kept proving decisive one way or the other, and the latter two were much more enjoyable to watch absent that.

I'd consider the first two instructive if you're interested in how the game plays. The last two were more meta.

RO4 is going to be weird. I don't even know who to predict to win. If hero makes it to a zvz finals I'd bet on him but I don't remember how good he is at zvz. If larva makes it to the finals somehow I'd bet on him from hype alone but in some ways both hero and queen outclass him slightly. Betting on queen isn't wrong. Betting on mini is maybe wrong with 3 zergs, but if mini makes it to the finals who knows. He has one matchup to practice for the rest of the season and protoss don't seem particularly vulnerable to any strategy right now. They just have trouble closing out games.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 20:30 on May 31, 2021

# ¿ May 31, 2021 20:26

Khorne: May 1, 2002

kinda wish g1 wasn't botched would have been interesting to see how it played out

In a way, this was the best possible outcome. The other best possible outcome would be someone not dropping a game in back to back zerg mirrors, but thankfully we don't have to hope for that impossibly unlikely outcome.

I don't fully understand what happened between killing all the zealots and mismicroing against the last new zealot in g5. Queen should have been able to do more during that period and the observer didn't really show us what happened. I get that Queen was mega tilted and did a strategy he hadn't planned or practiced to do -- which is always a recipe for disaster.

I can't tell if hero vs larva is going to be a blood bath or devolve into a circus of "let's make air units and get air upgrades and then mash 3.5 control groups of mutas into each other". ZvZ has had that weird arc kinda frequently over the past year or two.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Jun 2, 2021

# ¿ Jun 2, 2021 16:49

Khorne: May 1, 2002

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

if queen had killed that pylon like half a second earlier, that zealot would have never come out and he'd have won the game right then and there. i think that might have got to him.

It seemed like he was running around doing nothing a lot of the time too. I didn't see him hitting probes on the edge or even threatening to a lot of the time. But I could be wrong, I watched kinda casually while doing work on my other screen.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2021 17:53

Khorne: May 1, 2002

The ASL casts seem pretty late this week. Finals are in under 24 hours. The remaining RO4 game happened 2 days after the one they put up a while ago.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2021 21:37

Khorne: May 1, 2002

anchorpunch posted:

Apparently there were more than 260k viewers watching the finals in various streams. Not bad for a 23 Year Old retro game^^

I'm waiting on the tastosis cast. Mostly because if I don't wait for it I'll watch the finals & then not watch the tastosis cast.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Jun 7, 2021

# ¿ Jun 7, 2021 00:41

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Most partner agreements, at least the ones I've seen which are admittedly older, allow you to broadcast on other platforms as long as it's not to twitch at the same time. So if the stream is on afreeca and not twitch it would not have been in violation. And that's as an individual streamer. They are even more lax when you are doing it for a studio and not yourself, and because an element of human judgment is involved "I work for a korean broadcasting company that broadcasts on their own platform x and uploads to youtube" is not something they're likely to act against.

Now I'm wondering what afreeca asked them to do vs how they interpreted everything vs whether they consulted with a lawyer or not. You'll get lots of bad advice from twitch cs & random people you talk to.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jun 7, 2021

# ¿ Jun 7, 2021 14:42

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Elyv posted:

game 4 of the second semis made me so frustrated and I'm not even a fan of either player

why didn't you just kill the third and expand yourself instead of trying to break 4 spores or whatever it was, hero

He could have just mowed down the natural multiple times but didn't recognize how far ahead he was. As long as those scourge didn't connect he would have won any fight even on the spores. Even when he ggd the muta count was close to equal and he had just lost ~5-6 mutas to scourge and just fought on spores.

Hero seemed exhausted in the final game and had a lot of mistakes that happen when you aren't really focused like not reacting to lings hitting his drones.

e: pretty sure hero was expecting to crush larva through micro/aggression alone because larva tends to play a bit of a "one step slower than you" zvz or does a hidden massing kind of thing. when you go in with that expectation and get trivially held by someone who has way more drones than you it's pretty demoralizing. I'd imagine it's hard to find a zvz practice partner nevermind one who plays the matchup like larva does. Larva has this "I am just going to play the game and not try to get a free win, if you want to win you have to prove you can play better than I do" thing going on in zvz.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jun 9, 2021

# ¿ Jun 8, 2021 14:36

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Nostalgamus posted:

The final game is completely insane.

The rest are good, but the final one kinda overshadows that.

I like how the duality of "pros are human" combined with "pros are inhuman" is met with "it was so evenly matched that we ended up here". Truly a cool game where it looked like both sides were crushing at various points.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2021 23:04

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Heavy_D posted:

Clearly the critical match in group C was Movie vs himself! Besides the observer snipe, there was the dragoon cage in the same game, and throwing away a massive lead in the first match in record time. Just a tragic case of self-sabotage.

Movie beat up everyone in his games, including himself

# ¿ Sep 11, 2021 14:52

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Herstory Begins Now posted:

what on earth did i just watch

this asl has been pretty decent overall but group e was great

even the finish was great

# ¿ Sep 18, 2021 05:15

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Herstory Begins Now posted:

New ASL and holy poo poo this is good stuff

private

# ¿ Oct 1, 2021 14:13

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Mata posted:

No wait it's still out of sync but in the other direction now

Yeah. Some crazy games anyway.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2021 20:49

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Group C is up. Includes Queen, Light, Stork, and Snow. Could be RO4 with the players in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkY5Vx59gYk

I don't know what the hell happened in Light vs Queen g1. It's a very good and interesting game.

Queen vs Snow on eclipse was a great PvZ

Khorne fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 7, 2021

# ¿ Oct 6, 2021 18:45

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Elephunk posted:

What happened with the ASL Tastosis fallout?

Artosis and Tasteless did not want to attempt to negotiate different partnership terms with twitch or risk their partnership to stream live on afreeca. ASL wanted the english cast live on afreeca and neither side would budge. Early on one of the two hinted that it burnt some bridges. The reality is Artosis probably makes significantly more from his stream than he does from casting ASL.

They ended up being able to cast it on their own with it getting reposted to the ASL youtube channel. ASL provides a clean vod to cast over. They do this on their own after it is broadcast live. Not while it is live. The vods are delayed because they have someone translate parts of it and there needs to be some editing. Although they do it in a live-cast format so presumably there isn't too much editing.

Given the coordination required and the reality that they can now schedule casting ASL to when it is most convenient for them, it's not too surprising there are frequent delays. They've been much better about getting the videos out quickly this season, but if you're relying on a team of 4 people + coordination with a company then you're introducing many potential ways to delay vod relases.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Oct 14, 2021

# ¿ Oct 13, 2021 06:02

Khorne: May 1, 2002

mortons stork posted:

New Tastosis cast up
seeing that video timer kinda gives away the game already

g2 fight at the choke to the nat, royal threw so hard by getting all his tanks stuck on each other due to that one sieged tank

shout out to g3 for showing what happens when you try to play starcraft

Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 15, 2021

# ¿ Oct 15, 2021 17:36

Khorne: May 1, 2002

mortons stork posted:

what was that trying to accomplish. what the gently caress was he doing

starcraft is a game of imperfect information & he did not see or expect zerglings there because it would sabotage the zerg's growth to make them and zerglings are useless against the terran position [unless you walk out on the map to snipe overlords/force mutas to come harass your army]

# ¿ Oct 23, 2021 18:03

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Elyv posted:

You can't say this and not post/link the tier list

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMg_HT8asSc

It seems like a pretty serious tier list from a perspective that ignores how unit composition progresses through a game, timing windows, and overall utility in favor of raw unit strength. If a unit is very good at doing its job he ranks it highly. If a unit is used purely out of necessity or only good against 1-2 things he ranks it low.

Devourers really do wreck lots of air units. Although this is the choice I know the least about despite playing zerg, because devourers aren't a practical choice against things people actually do.

Science Vessels don't actually beat anything that can shoot them and are wildly ineffective against most units in the game despite being the only reason Terran has a chance in many TvZs. It's because they can skate around and rely on the strength of marine & medic to protect them that irradiate can generate immense value. Even so, lots of times science vessels are kind of break even and the real differentiator is that marines only cost minerals while the zerg is gas limited.

Dark Archons are stupidly powerful if you can afford to get them and generate energy for an eternity. They're not viable due to cost, energy regen time, and the alternative options protoss have. If you start having x vs y unit wars or some theoretical unit compositions with no regard for how to get there, suddenly the dark archon is a pretty beastly unit. When you're faced with how to spend gas you're thinking "I could make reavers" or "I could have psi storm" or "I could have carriers" or "how about a few more dragoons". That & requiring you to throw away dark templar are the dark archon's undoing.

Vultures are S+ tier at some points in the game but can't actually fight certain things due to damage/armor types and all races eventually have ways to deal with mines. Vulture A seemed the most controversial of all picks to me, but when you compare it to a mutalisk (a similarly broken unit) or templar it sort of makes sense.

Corsair in D is because it's only good vs mutas & overlords. "only" being quite a strong statement, but it's pretty similar to his ranking of the science vessel -- these are terrible units in most situations.

I don't think anything else was that controversial.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Nov 4, 2021

# ¿ Nov 3, 2021 23:55

Khorne: May 1, 2002

I hate the youtube commenter that said the person who won wasn't the person they wanted to win

kidding, I thought he was talking about mini. I really wanted mini to win because getting second constantly sucks & he is ahead of the curve in pvz and apparently pvt as well although it seems like his T practice partner(s) were weaker at holding cheeses than Rush is or he underestimated rush's ability to hold them.

It seems like he 100% stuck to his match plan and didn't deviate and ended up pulling through despite some really close calls! The proxy 2 gate game was impressive.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Nov 11, 2021

# ¿ Nov 11, 2021 07:11

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Nostalgamus posted:

It's not every day you see firebats fighting probes, but the opportunity arose, and it worked pretty well.

guy in the chat has recommended artosis do that thousands of times

# ¿ Mar 5, 2022 18:16

Khorne: May 1, 2002

DEEP STATE PLOT posted:

lmfao @ game 2, the hell did i just watch

I thought the choice to pull back completely was a bit odd, but it worked out really well.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 27, 2022

# ¿ Mar 27, 2022 17:36

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Heavy_D posted:

Day 3 of the round of 8 is out, maybe the best so far?[/url]

Bisu's season has been some "flash plays random" tier of somehow he won the series despite losing most of the games.

Except that last game. And the one pvz he won in an unbelievable display of game knowledge & skill. And how some early prodding gave jyj a quick L in one of the earlier games.

Glad to see he played well vs cheeses today & outright crushed jyj in early mechanical play after what happened on at least one of the other days.

If lategame pvt goes remotely like the jyj games light could potentially sweep him. I like Bisu and hope we get a good series.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Mar 31, 2022

# ¿ Mar 31, 2022 18:32

Khorne: May 1, 2002

ASL english fell through because they wanted something with live streams on afreeca. This would violate tasteless', and more importantly, artosis' twitch partner contracts. They could have likely tried to negotiate with twitch as they will make exceptions in cases like this, but it's unlikely either one of them is that well connected or business savvy.

ASL wouldn't really budge on that, and at least for artosis I bet he makes more in a night of raging at his opponents than he does than from a week of ASL casting. Before the pay cut.

re: scan/nyoken, I am fairly sure they are not even getting paid. They constantly shill that people should watch live & watch the videos to show there is a need for a live english cast. Tasteless & Artosis' patreon proves there is a demand and need so it seems kinda ridiculous for scan & nyoken to constantly say it. The english cast was kinda weird to begin with from ASL's point of view. They weren't really extracting money from viewers very efficiently, and the only way to do that would be to favor streaming on twitch which is a bit weird when they run a competing platform. ASL never even had an english sponsor.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Apr 7, 2022

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 01:03

Khorne: May 1, 2002

There seems to be no bitterness between scan+nyoken and artosis+tasteless. I'm fairly sure they have even publicly wished them luck and said positive things about them. I'm not sure I'd call them scabs.

quote:

patreon

I forgot that they had a patreon. I'm not really sure they are being paid by ASL itself.

Aces High posted:

I don't think scan and nyoken are doing it "for free" (though maybe Afreeca doesn't pay them a lot) since they also have a patreon, but you run into that problem of you aren't Tastosis (or maybe Falcon Paladin) so you aren't hauling in thousands each month, or even multiple hundreds

Tastosis are successful because they're charismatic, albeit in a non-traditional way, and tasteless especially has/had a voice for casting.

Some of the amateur casts and alternative casts aren't nearly as good even if they have players who are more knowledgeable. I'd love to see a trio cast or if they start covering team/other events having an artosis+x or tasteless+y cast sometime.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 7, 2022

# ¿ Apr 7, 2022 01:14

Khorne: May 1, 2002

animatorZed posted:

Haven't finished it yet but the first two games have some of the most satisfying storms I have ever seen.

This gave me flashbacks to the early '00s when I was learning the game and got steam rolled by corsairs endless times when I tried to play zerg. Especially the 2nd game. This game is unbelievably hard and was even harder when people hadn't figured out how to handle all the bullshit you can be subjected to in every matchup.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 8, 2022

# ¿ Apr 8, 2022 17:29

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Lemony posted:

I also liked the finals, and not just because I was cheering for Light. That first game was a great slugfest. The rest felt like they may have been fast, but were razor edged aggressive games (with the exception of game 2, but you can't blame Light for taking an easy win after that mistake by Rain). Sure, I'd have enjoyed another six games like the first one, but a well executed aggressive series, where one player seizes momentum and then crushes, can be interesting in its own way. I seem to remember that people, at the time, hated that triple bunker rush finals that Boxer did to Yellow, but it's now considered to be a classic series.

Editing to say I just looked up the Boxer series and I was wrong, it was a semifinal. Apparently he faced iloveoov in the finals.

It's especially interesting because it was terran aggression which we don't succeed all that much in the ASL lately.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2022 19:29

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Had no idea this was happening despite following everyone involved so didn't catch it live, but Tasteless & artosis & friends had some Starcraft lan party and it opens with light vs barracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWWNftQ0RWk

Day2: vod here

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 19:13

Khorne: May 1, 2002

where's the content for this thriving game

# ¿ Jun 23, 2022 03:55

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Loiku posted:

A lot of those maps look like there's a lot of potential to sneak units around different sides of the map. Is Flash ever coming back? He's not in this season. He went to the military in 2019 and it's only 2 years long so I figured we'd be seeing him again.

e: I am confused about timelines here. No idea when Flash will be back.

Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 8, 2022

# ¿ Aug 8, 2022 17:49

Khorne: May 1, 2002

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bj_yG7jwX8

Season of good zvzs so far.

# ¿ Aug 29, 2022 17:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 20:13

Khorne: May 1, 2002

Fellis posted:

contrasts nicely with ro16 B which is just miserable jeez

unless you love DT rushes i guess

I enjoyed ro16 b, season of the invisible men

# ¿ Sep 16, 2022 15:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > "Professional" StarCraft Brood War- The Once and Future E-sport

«‹›3 »