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CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

How can you be so narcissistic?

I seriously feel like, if Subaki didn't obsess over his appearance for at least 3 hours a day, he'd expect people to say those things about him...

Tae posted:

You're the one who enjoys belittling people.

How do you have staring contests with someone whose eyes are perpetually closed, anyway?

Tae posted:

Is it really just the two of us?

I know how this goes- "a little break" quickly turns into either "I quit" or "wait, I was supposed to do that?"

Tae posted:

You're a fashion disaster!

Oboro? The whole point of being a ninja is to not be seen at all.

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CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

Work your butt off? Hopefully not literally...

Maybe I should consider skipping the supports I don't have comments for...

Tae posted:

Takumi- well, he's oblivious.

Well, Hinoka's trait is "most caring in the army;" it's perfectly logical that she'd take the idea of neglecting her siblings hard.

Tae posted:

Don't you try and lie to me!

Another typical "kid phobia" for Hayato. They're going a bit overboard, I think...

Tae posted:

Hey, heretic! Wait up!

I gotta agree with Rinkah there, Azama. I mean, "desire" can mean many things... such as your addiction to trolling everyone you meet.

Anyway, I really hope you have Saizo fight the boss (not necessarily solo, but still); like I said, it's for Reasons (which I am using as shorthand for "I have beaten Birthright and know how this goes, but am forbidden from going into detail because of spoilers").

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

Maybe please calm down on the wink wink, it's kinda annoying

Sorry. I'll shut up about Reasons. Anyway...

Takumi - His mere existence makes Setsuna completely obsolete; while Setsuna's got stupidly high Speed, Takumi is a royal, with all that entails, and is thus actually a solid unit. Too bad he's kind of an rear end.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Kagero - As Tae already said, she's pretty much just a pile of Strength and Speed and nothing else. I mean, her Resistance is pretty good, but that's normal for a ninja; everything else is kinda crap. Unfortunately, she's got possibly the worst possible secondary class for her stats, so you can't use that to try to compensate. At least I like her as a character.

On a side note, what does it say about me that I consider the three most attractive women in Fates to be Hinoka, Kagero, and Sakura, in that order?

Anyway, am I the only one who would like Tae to at least off-screen enough challenges to get certain drastically-underlevelled units up to par (first and foremost: Hayato)? Because as long as he's level 1, there's no way we're letting you deploy him.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Gravity Cant Apple posted:

Can we cool it with the creepiness while you're cooling it with the wink winking? Also while we're at it I don't think you need to comment on every support conversation, no matter how mundane.

Hey, I never said anything about who I ship them with, just that I, personally, find them attractive. There's a difference. For example, believe it or not, I find Sully pretty attractive in Awakening, but I have no interest in pairing her with that game's Avatar (I prefer her with Chrom, since she's the only option he's got that I feel would actually work out).

And yes, I'm aware that I should probably at least cut out the conversations which don't actually have anything happening; I'm just being OCD.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
This map is probably one of the few that I'd willingly deploy Setsuna, since all the enemies (or at least a majority) are fliers (and thus she gets a MASSIVE boost to attack power due to her usage of bows). Sure, her stats're a bit low, especially defensively, but play it right and that won't be a factor anyway.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
...Okay, I can understand Setsuna since she's underlevelled (even if I don't agree due to her archer-ness), but why the hell does TAKUMI have votes?!

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Wallet Inspector posted:

Archer suck and are bad in FE games, and no bow damage buff or terrain immunity is fixing that. That said, this level is all fliers, so they're much less bad in this one.

While I generally agree with you (crippling overspecialization!), Fates has probably the strongest incarnation of Archers thus far; if nothing else, they actually have weapons that can attack at 1 Range now.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Hunt11 posted:

The shining bow (a Nohr exclusive bow) allows bow users to attack at 1-2 range.

But this isn't the Nohr route, so it won't be relevant for a while.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

You were such a pathetic pegasus rider when you were younger!

Azama, maybe you should learn to shut up before someone actually follows through on one of those threats...

Tae posted:

I really need to go use the bathroom...

Well, at least Kagero's saner than Saizo. I mean, more logical reason to follow the Avatar around, AND allows him privacy?

Tae posted:

You like working the fields too, Saizo?

Well, at least Saizo's CAPABLE of being helpful rather than paranoid from time to time. Now if only he'd exercise that capability more often, I might like him better.

Tae posted:

Voting's over. Setsuna, Hana, Hinata, Rinkah, Takumi, and Saizo are out. Give any feedback if you want single or multi-vote in the future.

drat you, other voters! :argh: Anyway, I kinda preferred multi-voting, really.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Reina - Kind of a stopgap in case you don't have anyone else to fill the anit-air role, as Tae already said (she's good at it, don't get me wrong, but there're better units for the job); that said, she's still not as bad at it as some units (Setsuna and her complete lack of Strength, for example) if you just ignore her frailty. Not too fond of her personality, though.

I don't know about you guys, but I just find it painful to watch people failing, which is why I at least try to put together a credible team for Tae (and not this "no axes or bows" idiocy you put him through this map). Hopefully this doesn't escalate to the point that he's forced to level grind the units you keep kicking out just so he can have a chance of a credible team...

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Weeble posted:

I have literally never used Reina... or Kinshi Knights.

Every time I get to this chapter I put Reina in a corner of the map where she won't draw aggro. No exp for her.

I can understand not using most pre-promoted units. That said, Kinshi Knights're one of the best classes for anti-air, because they have access to bows AND (spoilered just in case; I don't want to provoke Tae again) have a skill specifically for anti-air (you know the Breaker skills? It's like them, but for fliers); their other skill is a nice bonus, but not necessary on an anti-air unit.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

You'll rue the day you crossed me!

On the one hand, yes, mice are a problem. On the other... Oboro's kind of overenthused about hunting it down, isn't she?

Tae posted:

I feel like I'm worthless in a fight.

Mozu's underselling herself, and Hayato... well, he's obviously BEEN in a few battles by now if you've seen this, but that's the only reason I'm not calling BS on his speech about battle.

Tae posted:

We used to talk regularly back when I was in training as a pegasus knight.

...This sounds like they're flirting already, and it's only the C rank. Problem is... well... it's Subaki, who, as has been repeatedly established, is worthless in a fight and completely obsolete thanks to the presence of Hinoka.

Rangpur posted:

Anyway, I kind of regret the loss of the head rubbing minigame if only because I find the mental image of Corrin just standing there dragging his palm over someone's face really funny.

Sir? Sir, what are you doing? Please stop that, it's really weirding me out.

Shhh, shhh. We're bonding.

Apparently it's genetic; I'm pretty sure I remember (from a translation I've seen somewhere) one of Mikoto's retainers commenting on how she used to do that too.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
(potentially-spoilery comment on Garon's choice of skills deleted). On the bright side: You can use Draconic Hex yourself in the Nohr and third routes (or buy it from other players for the Hoshido route; I'm not judging). It's just as devastating as you'd expect, and makes the Avatar a top-tier offensive unit (even beyond their sheer stats).

Anyway, Kaden is, indeed, automatically deployed; pretty sure he starts right next to the Avatar. My review of him will come after the stage is cleared.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

FELD1 posted:

After the perma-benching of Setsuna, I will vote to bench Takumi at every opportunity out of spite.

Yeah, I know Setsuna sucks, but she's funny so I put her on my team every time.

First, Tae is showing the supports even for units we've never let him use (why else would he be showing Hayato's supports?), so it's not like you don't get to read her dialogue. Second, voting just out of spite is just gonna antagonize people.

As an afterthought: If you want a player to use Setsuna, you've basically confirmed that you've got a copy of your own, so you can just PLAY IT YOURSELF! Not everyone finds her gimmicks amusing, and out of those not everyone is willing to forgive her faults just because of that; I, for one, am annoyed by her (and her sheer suckage), so I would've voted to bench her every time (except that last map) if she wasn't removed as an option or some highly improbable miracle actually made her a credible unit.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

Calm down, please

Lemme guess: You're referring to both Feld (and his "permabench Takumi out of spite" plan) AND me (and my yelling at him for his spite), right? I mean, I'm sure I can calm down just fine, but being spiteful toward the guy who's actually playing rubs me the wrong way, to put it lightly.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

I'm so humiliated...

I've been getting better about meaningless comments, as I'm sure everyone's noticed, but I can't let this one go without at least one "What."

Tae posted:

Just be yourself, you naughty cat.

This cannot possibly end well for Orochi (anyone else getting vibes of the Kellam+Miriel support here?). Also: I'm pretty sure "assassin" is part of a ninja's job description.

Tae posted:

We need to consider who is protecting the royal family.

The moral of this support: Never let Saizo near the rookies.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Supports

Why do you always have to be so stubborn?!

Takumi has issues. I bet trying to brush Hinoka off like that is probably the most painful thing he could've done to her short of flat-out dying.

Tae posted:

You're an odd duck, Setsuna.

This support really makes me feel like Setsuna does these things on purpose...

Tae posted:

Shouldn't you be barking orders at people?

I think Azama's in the wrong series and faction, really... I mean, in my experience most protagonist nobles in Fire Emblem are extremely selfless.

Tae posted:

I need help developing my artistic sense.

I've got a bad feeling about this...

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

Ah, Hayato. You're just as short as I imagined.

Thus we have the start of a troll war.

Tae posted:

Hinata is going to BRING IT!

Even if you bothered to level Hinata, he'd be statistically incapable of beating any of the other sword users, barring a fluke... which is why he'd probably win anyway, because The Game Says So. It's frustrating when one of your units is allegedly one of the best, but doesn't even begin to live up to their reputation...

Tae posted:

I promise you'll look adorable!

Yes, fashion is Serious Business for Oboro.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Rangpur posted:

So if you have a female Corrin, can you shack up with Kaden and produce a horrifying fox-dragon crossbreed? Because honestly that's always my first instinct whenever I have the option to pair off characters in a game like this.

Ehh... sort of? You can't do both at the same time, but the kids DO get access to both dragon- and beaststones.

Rangpur posted:

But can you make an atrocity in the eyes of Man & God if you marry him?! This is important dammit!

Artist's rendition of Kaden and (F)Corrin's spawn:



(I drew him with a bow because he(?) would obviously be the strongest class, an archer.)

Buddy, I've played Breath of Fire, and that is Breath of Fire character art.

ajkalan posted:

Then obviously you'd have to make them a flying class so they'd be harder to hit, duh

This would only add a weakness to bows, and two is more than enough in my books.

Anyway, responses to other readers aside, character stuff!

Kaden - He's surprisingly well-balanced, really. His Defense is a bit low, but his other growths, with the exception of Magic, are pretty good. His terrible secondary class and complete lack of ranged options kind of hurt his usefulness, though. He's... well, call him above average as a character; I SORTA like him, but not enough to actually call him one of my favorites.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Sheesh, I know Azura's useful, but don't you guys think she's a bit overused by this point? I've been primarily voting to bench drastically underlevelled, overlevelled, or BAD characters thus far, and I'm pretty sure you guys have literally deployed Azura on EVERY MAP THUS FAR (thus making her overlevelled). How about spreading the experience a bit, maybe keep a few more characters viable for later instead of locking Tae into one specific team? Anyway, support comments:

Tae posted:

C Support

The Flame Tribe... It sounds to me like their embers have grown cold.

Saizo, every Fire Emblem veteran ever would be more inclined to agree with Rinkah... and possibly bench your rear end while they're at it for merely SUGGESTING such a thing. Assuming, of course, you haven't been benched already for being such an rear end. And let us not forget more practical reasons to call off pursuit of retreating enemies: First, if you take too many casualties then you won't have access to those soldiers when you actually NEED them. Second, if your soldiers know you consider them expendable that'll kill their morale. Third, they might be leading you into an ambush. #3, in particular, is a facepalm-inducing oversight on his part; I mean, he's a NINJA, so he should really be cautious enough to at least consider such a possibility. I think all the ninja-ness went to Kaze, to be honest.

Tae posted:

You've got a scary look on your face right now.

Kaden, you are the exact OPPOSITE of cool, calm, and collected. Also, apparently Azura isn't so above it all.

Tae posted:

I-I'll never talk! NEVER!

You know, "kids run in fright from you" is more of an indication that there's something wrong with YOU than them...

Tae posted:

That would be impossible!

Subaki, some people (statistically speaking: Saizo) are capable of being good at everything. You are not one of those people... in fact, I'd say you aren't even good at your official job! Which, admittedly, may be because you keep getting distracted, but still. (Honestly, I hadn't noticed that explanation for why Subaki sucks. Thanks, AweStriker!)

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

BlazeEmblem posted:

She is a dancer, and gains EXP when she dances. She isn't stealing chances for EXP from other characters.

She steals EXP opportunities by taking up a deployment slot. If you're deploying Azura, that's one less unit you can bring along for levelling.

Tae posted:

C Support

I wouldn't feed what's on that tray to a dog.

No, this is not just in her supports; Felicia is one of the worst cooks in the entire army, and gives some of the worst modifiers in the Mess Hall to prove it. Others on her tier are Rinkah (apparently burns it into literal inedibility), Setsuna (probably doesn't pay attention), Hinoka (apparently too busy with combat training to learn to cook... but still probably the best in this list), and, oddly enough, Reina (she seems like she'd be pretty good in the kitchen, but no such luck- she's just as bad as Felicia).

Tae posted:

I was mad at myself for not being able to do anything about it.

Well, I suppose that's something to be said in favor of consequences of events in this game.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

ApplesandOranges posted:

I just had Hinoka cook a meal in my BR file and it came out delicious, so your mileage may vary.

I'm just going from wikis; while it's certainly POSSIBLE for meals to turn out well regardless, some characters do better ON AVERAGE than others (for example, Mozu is one of the best cooks in the game, generally giving the second-best modifier possible, and even SHE can screw it up).

ApplesandOranges posted:

And really, you'll almost never get the chance to have all deployed units gain exp equally. And considering one of those slots is typically a healer, who doesn't get much by being paired, might as well make a slot a dancer so other units can gain more experience.

Obviously you can't keep everyone's levels even unless you cap them, but that doesn't give you an excuse to outright NEGLECT units, I say. If you deploy someone, then you're probably gonna use them, right? And frankly, I've never been all that fond of units whose only purpose is to give their turns to someone else, especially if said units are frail. I'd rather have someone else capable of fighting well along, really; while the damage output and movement speed may fall off a bit compared to one REALLY strong unit getting two turns, it does give you another potential tank, if you pick right (or at least someone who ISN'T liable to be one-shotted by a stiff breeze).

ApplesandOranges posted:

Also her support gain rate is so slow it'll take her forever to marry someone. So you're going to have to put the work in sooner or later.

I think the support gain rates might've had the challenges in mind; I'm pretty sure there literally are not enough maps in the game to pair everyone up.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Endorph posted:

yeah, the ways like 'letting women be physical classes without making them be statistically inferior' and 'retconning the 'only men can wield the falchion' thing and presenting a woman as the future of the franchise in a metatextual sense'

Pretty sure he was just talking personalities, not mechanically (which is, as you said, making a LOT of progress- hell, this game, in particular, actually has formerly gender-locked classes such as Pegasus Knights being opened to everyone!). Of course, my biggest problem with Awakening: Chrom's strangled support list. I mean, I can get some characters being incompatible (as an example: For the life of me I just can NOT figure out how Vaike and Miriel would even get together), but what about Cordelia? Her crush on him is so obvious that it's pointed out in nearly all of her other supports, but can they support? Of COURSE not, that'd take away from the unnecessary drama and pointless angst! And it's not like she couldn't muster the will to confess, either, since some of her other S-ranks have HER as the initiator.

Sumia's support options being similarly scarce is another pet peeve, albeit a lesser one since she's second on my list of most hated characters in the game (beaten only by Cynthia); I mean, I get that she's supposed to be Chrom's "canon" wife, but I don't see their chemistry (as I already mentioned, I ship Chrom with Sully), and they missed out on an incredible amount of potential character development by only giving her 5 supports with men COUNTING THE MALE AVATAR (out of 14)... and sadly, I'm not even exaggerating.

Mysticblade posted:

Not every unit gets enough XP to stay competitive with the enemies. Someone will have to get benched. This has been a thing since like FE3 or FE5. 1 had units that were basically replaceable, 2 had a small pool of recruits and 4 let you deploy everyone. Not too sure about FE3 or FE5, but series tradition probably solidified there.

Grinding is not really a "core" part of FE. Grinding only exists in 4 out of 14 games, although boss abuse and arena abuse have been around for a while.

Fire Emblem has been a game where you pick and choose units for a long time. So, it's nothing surprising to see some units get neglected and get benched. We've already benched Subaki, Hinata and someone else probably. Are you saying that a player shouldn't just take their stuff and never bother deploying them again if they don't want to use them?

I'm not saying you should go out of your way to grind EVERYONE to 20/20 (not discouraging it either, mind- my mindset is "if the mechanic exists and was obviously intended, exploit the hell out of it"), just that you should at LEAST learn not to rely on your dancer excessively; they've invariably been frail, so one wrong move or mistimed RNG screw and you end up losing them forever, which would screw your strategy over. I mean, yeah, the series has been more lenient on that front lately, but as I understand it the majority of players go with Classic and mock Casual players for not playing how it "should" be played.

Besides, what if the deployment capacity increases beyond the A-team's size without any new recruits to fill the empty spaces? If we go with the "A-team to such an extent that everyone else is dead weight" strategy, then we're gonna have to either go into future battles undermanned (inadvisable) or take a grind break (time-consuming). Frankly, I'd rather go with Option C, which is the "make sure enough people are levelled that we don't NEED to do either of those" option (individually below par, but not as much so as "pick a team and stick with it"). Again, I'm not advocating levelling EVERYONE, just... say, one or two people beyond the good units up to credible levels?

Tyty posted:

If she's effectively a second Corrin by taking up that deployment slot then by all means let her take that second slot. That's the real power of dancers, is letting your strong offensive units go twice. They're almost ALWAYS a good idea to have around from a sheer tactical standpoint. There was little point in late-game Awakening because of Galeforce but in Birthright you don't have the liberty of deploying nine characters that can take two actions to go along with your mandatory deploy.

Frankly, I'd rather have a second Corrin (or other heavy-hitter of choice) full stop. On a related note, I'd say that a certain skill means Azura is even LESS important than Olivia is in Awakening, if only because it's entirely possible (easy, even) to get it on your entire army: Replicate literally allows your unit to be in two places at once, and they don't even have to be anywhere near each other. Sure, damage is shared between both instances of the unit, but considering the results you can get the benefits outweigh the risks I say... and I'm not alone, considering just how popular it is online, especially in conjunction with Renewal. True, they're both level 15 skills on promoted classes, but in normal gameplay that won't stop anyone.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

ohmygorgon posted:

I don't understand your logic with overuse of a Dancer. Your strategy is never going to be screwed over if your strategy includes don't let the dancer get hit, something that isn't particularly hard. I don't understand why you think it is such a horrible thing to have a unit that can't shrug off every attack. And at a certain point it is not possible to have 2 different great units, because units are unique enough that some are just going to be so much better. Instead of having 1 Corrin, and 1 unit that is almost as good, but not quite there, why not just use Corrin twice? Not having a dancer just removes a strategical option that can never be replaced by any other unit.

As for your deployment worries, it is not that difficult to catch a weaker unit up, any of the permabenched characters, outside of maybe Hayato, and even that is questionable, could jump in this chapter and be caught up by the end. And going undermanned has been a viable, at times over rewarding, way to play fire emblem, and using 2 units is probably the easiest way to beat Birthright.

You seem to be missing the fact that the people you'll most want to give extra turns to will be in the heaviest combat zones 90% of the time, and you can't always protect your dancer adequately that close to the enemy even if you CAN wall them off; for example, archers and other 2-range-capable enemies will prioritize your dancer above literally everyone else, almost GUARANTEED (certain exceptions may admittedly apply, but if the enemy CAN kill someone they WILL, and Azura's at the most risk of that in most circumstances). And you're kinda misunderstanding what I said: I'm not saying they need to be INVINCIBLE; they just need to be capable of surviving at least ONE hit... which Azura isn't.

Besides, Azura's plenty high level right now (she is literally the highest-level unit on Tae's team), and she doesn't really NEED to be high-level (or even up-to-date) to fulfill her primary function; I'm not advocating dropping her PERMANENTLY, just, as you said, bringing in one of the other units instead of her for a map or two and train them so they can at least COMPETE.

chiasaur11 posted:

It kind of is!

There's a DLC conversation with Chrom if Cordelia's unmarried. She tries to spit out the whole "Hey, Chrom! I like you!" thing, and basically passes out from stress. Chrom assumes she's got a serious medical condition and ends the scene by yelling for a cleric.

Like the saying goes, them as asks don't get.

This just seems like a tacked-on excuse for why she doesn't get a support with him which they came up with after the fact; as I said, she has S-ranks where SHE confesses FIRST, so why couldn't they write something as simple as her finally getting up the nerve to at least talk to Chrom? Or hell, have the Avatar play matchmaker from Chrom's end of the equation? I like the idea of Robin telling Chrom something's bothering Cordelia and she won't tell anyone what it is while conveniently omitting the fact that everyone can see it. I think it'd be perfectly in-character for Chrom to not stop until she gives an answer he's satisfied with, and- in true Fire Emblem tradition- fall for her along the way.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

TheKingofSprings posted:

Because Awakening is Fire Emblem: Greatest Hits and she's the Catria to Sumia's Caeda.

That doesn't give an in-character explanation; as I said, the "passes out from trying to talk to Chrom, who remains oblivious" thing sounds like an excuse they made up after programming the game (which, so far as I can see, it literally is, because the DLC was made AFTER the game was released), and doesn't entirely mesh with her character as shown in supports, which seem to portray her as more "girl with crush who doesn't know how to confess" than "so shy she faints when complimented" (Gregor, for example, has her actively attempting to get Chrom's attention... poorly, admittedly, but TRYING, with the S-rank being HER confessing to GREGOR rather than vice versa). It really seems that literally the only reason they didn't give Cordelia a support with Chrom is, as you said, going too far on her Catria expy-ness.

And as I said, it'd be trivial to come up with a way to get a support started between them, such as my "Robin started it by siccing Chrom on her with a convenient half-truth" idea.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

ohmygorgon posted:

I'm genuinely curious to see how you play this game if you think that 90% of the time, you are in a situation where it would difficult to keep Azura safe. I find it difficult to imagine Azura being in danger during Enemy Phase, even in the open field, heavy enemy rushdown design of Birthright, and in the other two routes, keeping Azura safe is even less of an issue. The fact remains, a unit does not need to take a hit if they do not get hit in the first place.

I'll admit that I tend to think of independence before synergy, but in my experience protecting your back-row units is nowhere near as easy as you say even with a full team, and I'm more inclined to believe personal experience than someone else's word.

ohmygorgon posted:

I also didn't bring up the ease to catch units up to say that they should. I said that in response to you thinking the LP could be put in a situation where grinding would be necessary. I'm saying it is so easy to catch units up, that if the deployment numbers went up enough to the point where weak units might have to get deployed, there would be no issue, they can get caught up. I'm sure Tae is keeping deployment counts in mind when it comes deciding if a unit is gone for good. Even if that is not the case, like I said, going undermanned is hardly inadvisable, if the end goal is beat the game. If you are saying that the units should be brought back because you just want to see them in action, you should just give up on that, people kept voting them out, so their is no reason to keep them around to be voted out more.

Never doing challenge maps is not necessarily a good approach to keeping units viable, especially since we keep switching them out at inopportune times. And going with less than a full team is inadvisable when the vast majority of your available units are either underlevelled or rear-liners (or, in Azama's case, both).

ohmygorgon posted:

If Azura is a high level, that means she is being used a lot. Why would you not want to continue using a unit you use a lot? If the other units are worth using, they will get used, but there are only so many units that can get EXP. Azura doesn't even have much effect on how much EXP deployed units are getting, in the sense that she gets her EXP differently, so the idea that she is stealing EXP from other units is already dubious.

As I said, Azura doesn't NEED to be high level, she NEEDS to give her turns to other units- that's the entire POINT of her class! Also as I said, she steals experience by her mere presence, in the sense that you could be giving the deployment slot to someone ELSE.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

ohmygorgon posted:

At this point, enough people have disagreed with you and so many points have been made that there is little reason to continue this conversation. I'll say you should just accept the fact that units aren't coming back, and trust that there will be no issue, it's not like Tae only has one try every chapter. It's Birthright on hard, there is always a way to succeed.

I never said "bring back the perma-benched characters" in the first place. (And what happened to "SA doesn't like Azura" anyway? I'm pretty sure this thread's ALWAYS deployed her.)

That said, it does, indeed, seem we'll never agree on this, albeit not for the reasons you seem to think: I'm only asking for at least ONE stage where Azura is NOT deployed, while you're all going "DANCER!!! USE 4EVR!!1!one!" Yes, yes, Dancers are good if used properly, I KNOW. That doesn't mean they're THAT good, especially with the survivability concerns I brought up before (and no, I still don't buy that bit about "it doesn't matter if she doesn't get attacked" because THE ENEMY PRIORITIZES HER OVER EVERYONE ELSE).

And no, I am never going to stop voting for benching Azura until endgame unless it actually happens at least once; in fact, I'm half-tempted to veto her in future playthroughs to the best of my (likely nonexistent because "USE DANCER 4EVR!" bandwagon) ability just because I'm SICK of her.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Wallet Inspector posted:

If you're that worried about Azura taking damage, you can protect her with the Shelter skill from a Cavalier like Silas.

I never equip that one; all my skill slots are taken up by more IMMEDIATELY useful skills (such as giving Corrin Dragon Fang). On top of never deploying Azura in the first place, of course, but that's an entirely different topic.

Blue Labrador posted:

You're, uh, pretty heavily invested in Waifu Simulator Let's Plays, huh?

(Unit deployment isn't a big deal)

Actually, I just think that Azura's being overrepresented here, and I'm annoyed by this thread's apparent hypocrisy (when Azura first joined I was told that she was unpopular on this forum; however, this thread has refused to let her so much as sit a single battle out). I honestly feel that it takes more strategy to win when you can't just say "oh, that didn't go how I wanted, DO-OVER!" or "my most powerful unit isn't useful enough so now he has two actions a turn!"

Of course, I also feel that certain abilities make her completely redundant, but I've already said why.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

SC Bracer posted:

I don't think azura being unpopular as a character has anything to do with her utility as a unit.

Perfectly understandable; I mean, I'm not too fond of Saizo as a CHARACTER, but I can't deny his effectiveness as a UNIT. That said, deploying her every map for 9 stages straight? She isn't THAT good, and, to throw others' arguments back at them (yes, I know I'm being spiteful with this, and I'm sorry about it), she isn't NECESSARY to win any of the stages she has shown up in.

SC Bracer posted:

Shelter is a perfectly good defensive skill, and putting it on Silas doesn't mean you have to stop putting Dragon Fang on Corrin. What else would you have on him? Luna and Aegis are his two best alternative skills, and that still leaves you space for a skill that lets you quickly pull someone into a pair up and out of danger. I also have no idea how you're ending up in a situation where Azura is constantly in grave danger because it's quite simple to press X and then maintain a defensive line of some sort so that she never has to see combat unless you want her to.

I have already made references to my units knowing skills that they can't learn in their innate class sets, so you should stop making assumptions on what he does and does not know; I was just using Corrin's Dragon Fang as an example because it has already been seen in the LP, I'm not going fishing for a different example, and I don't like talking about skills that haven't at least been discussed in an update yet.

As to the defensive line, it's kinda hard to keep her out of the way (or make a proper line) when my primary method of combat is counter-baiting (and thus at least 95% of my kills happen on the enemy phase, with my units being deliberately in as many enemies' ranges as possible and often 5-8 spaces away from safety- yes, this only works that way when the unit is stronger than the enemies; I already said I exploit the grinding capability, didn't I?).

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

FELD1 posted:

Says the same poster who flipped their poo poo at me for saying I would be voting to bench Takumi until the end of time...

To be fair, I said TEMPTED, where you said you were GOING TO.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

Kaze has more HP than everyone but Corrin, Oboro, Kaden, and a pre-promote.

Sounds kinda like Azura in my new run. She isn't even level 19 yet and she's got 8 defense and 20 HP... what the hell?

Anyway, character stuff.

Ryoma - You know how some characters lead by example? Ryoma is one of them- he's an absolutely INCREDIBLE unit no matter how you look at him. He's not too bad as a character, either.

Scarlet - Well, at least she has more appropriate growths than Rinkah. She could probably do with more HP though. I'm not too fond of her as a character due to Avatar-sexuality; she'd probably be higher in my lists if she had other supports. From what I can tell, lots of people ship her with Ryoma despite their lack of a support. Maybe it's like Awakening's Chrom and Cordelia...

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

FoolyCharged posted:

Ryoma does have one major draw back. He's really bad at feeding lower level units exp to catch them up. Anything he touches is too dead for someone else to finish off.

I've already stated my opinion on "feeders," haven't I?

FoolyCharged posted:

she comes with a killer axe, so the idea is that she tanks until shes low, then her pskill + killer axe lets her go to town with berserker like crit rates.

Now I'm wondering how crit-spammy a Berserker Scarlet would be...

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
I still say Felicia works best if you Heart Seal her to Strategist ASAP, but to each their own.

On a side note, her secondary tree makes her deceptively durable despite the fact that her Defense is trash: Her secondary tree is Mercenary, one promotion of which is Hero... which, in turn, teaches Sol- an attack skill which heals the user for half the damage they deal when it activates. Combine with a tome, and Felicia's pretty much only dying when enemies one-shot her.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

C Support

Give the man a prize!

Well, I guess everyone has their vices. That said, gluing stuff to your weapon sounds like it'd make it less useful in some way (either blunting its edge, throwing the balance off, or just plain making it impractically heavy)...

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Gravity Cant Apple posted:

I haven't played Birthright but I would assume a lot of it is general bias against pre-promotes in Fire Emblem games.

Probably this. I mean, Reina may not be up to the level of units you've promoted yourself, but that doesn't mean she's BAD... just outclassed.

Besides, last I saw Ryoma had quite a few votes himself, and it's already been stated that he's a really good unit... but then that's probably why he's got so many votes- readers want to make things difficult for Tae.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:

Voting will end soon. Please stop voting for Rinkah and Reina, they are already beyond dead at this point

-------------------------

C Support

You must stop being such a perfectionist.

Truer words were never spoken, Orochi. Who knows, maybe his focus on perfection is actually holding him back? Wouldn't that be ironic?

Tae posted:

Remember that I'm clumsy...

Seems Felicia's cryokinesis isn't just a one-off joke... Too bad it doesn't seem to do anything in-game.

Tae posted:

A proper princess?! What are you trying to say?!

Ryoma the troll... Can't say I saw that one coming.

Tae posted:

Next time you need a little shut-eye, come find me and we'll curl up together...

And Kaden's just lazy.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

Tae posted:



Why is Azama even in this race when he's leading in class change

My guess? A bunch of the people who aren't voting to Heart Seal him are voting to bench him, which combines with the dilution effect from having more options to put him in the "winning" tier of both polls.

CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015

BlazetheInferno posted:

So, I've been following this but largely been skipping the between-updates chat (largely due to only checking this once a day usually, and gently caress reading through 70+ replies in one sitting when I do), but I've been looking through the thread just now, and I've been trying to keep track of a few things... did Hana get quietly permabenched at some point? As far as I can tell, Tae never said anything about it, but hasn't been getting voted out, and yet hasn't been attending the chapters, either. Most other Permabenchers got announced when they received that dubious honor, but there was no mention of Hana getting dropped.

Not that I have a problem with it precisely, I'm just curious for the sake of keeping track of these things because DON'T ASK QUESTIONS I JUST FELT LIKE IT

Hana was perma-benched after To the Sea because she got voted out three times consecutively.

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CptWedgie
Jul 19, 2015
Darting Blow and, of course, her completely ridiculous innate growth.

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