|
Honestly, the second there is a scent of impeachment over collusion, there should be a push for Pence to step down.It makes no sense for a candidate attached to a corrupt campaign to be President. President Ryan wouldn't be better either, but he's also a weak-rear end candidate. Biden loving mopped the floor with him during the 2012 debates, he honestly doesn't come off strong in interviews, and the notion of him being the reasonable and smart Republican falls apart once you actually look at his politics. He's really not made for a national stage. His disconnect from 2016 and place among establishment Republicans would also mean he'd be unlikely to be primaried in 2020 where as I could see Kasich or even Cruz or Rubio coming in and stealing the nomination from Pence. I am very much of the mind that the Republican Party is the bigger enemy than Trump. But with that said, Nationalism is a scary thing. A victorious Trump presidency also means people like Huckabee or Palin seeing a path to the White House. And I'm going to err on the side of that being bad. EDIT: We also need to consider the fact that a 2020 election with a losing Trump might force us to face a scenario of the President of the United States refusing to concede which is much more damaging in my mind than impeachment.
|
#
¿
Feb 19, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 04:21 |
|
|
Another reason that Pence would probably step down is if there are any possible charges or prison time against Trump. The reality is that it's probably best to just pardon Trump as a gesture of healing. But Ryan would be much more well positioned to do that than Pence who potentially benefited from Trump's hypothetical crimes. But to be clear, it would also be Paul Ryan's hopes and dreams being destroyed by becoming President which is really the best case scenario.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
Radish posted:I'd like to think that the idea of "let's pardon this criminal president in the spirit of healing" is as dead as the idea of bipartisanship. I would have to think that if Trump did something SO bad and illegal that the GOP in congress actually impeached him, it would be political suicide to let him get away with it. What makes it plausible is that it's a no-win situation for either party. Trump going to court would be like the OJ Trial. It would last a long time and eclipse the news. Like OJ, you would also have a lot of people galvanized to support the accused. It benefits both parties to just move on. I think we need to be realistic. Under the current climate, there is most likely only one thing that is getting Trump impeached: Strong evidence of Collusion with Russia. In that case, Trump isn't being impeached, he's resigning. Because like I said, literally nobody wants to actually put the President on trial. So, I think the really most likely way Trump doesn't finish his term is through Nixon like resignation. The problem is that it's Trump. He'll resign, but he's also not going to shut his mouth. He'll maintain the premise of innocence despite whatever evidence exists and a poo poo ton of people will believe him. If he resigns then the Republicans also get to wash their hands with nobody having to actually take responsibility for pushing him out. But like Nixon, you can still get him on Federal charges, in this case, treason. This brings a huge issue of what if the trial finds Trump not guilty. Imagine a hypothetical where Trump pulls a Nixon and resigns to avoid impeachment proceedings, gets charged on a Federal level, goes through trial, and is found not guilty. Even with how unlikely it is, it would be absolutely devastating. And listen, this is all silly politics fan fiction, so whatever. But the Democrats aren't taking impeachment seriously right now not because there aren't grounds, but because letting Trump's presidency run its course might be less damaging in the long-term. I think the same logic carries over if Trump were to ever face criminal charges. It might be the just thing, but it's not the right move.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 21, 2017 17:34
|
|
|
Helsing posted:Trump reminds me a lot of Rob Ford, a mayor who was despised by the elite of his own city not based on his policies but based specifically on how much he embarrassed them. I think a lot of people are sublimating their embarrassment about Trump by concocting implausible story-lines about how Pence wouldn't be as bad. Pence is an opportunist with the moral backbone of a slug who plays at good old fashioned values. He's a wretched human being. So is most of congress, so was W, and so was Reagan. But for a lot of people, Trump is a danger not just in terms of bad policy but in terms of actively eroding the American system. And you can say a bunch of poo poo about how our system is not very democratic to begin with but the fact is there has never been a President in the history of the United States where a fear of not giving up power if the time comes in 2020 seems so great. An impeachment will not be half as damaging than a President refusing to leave office or seven years of Pence.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 02:38
|
|
|
Lightning Lord posted:He also actively defied them in order to enact racist policy!
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
I'm not saying that Trump not losing power is a possibility. A sitting President losing an election and saying, "This was rigged, I didn't actually lose" is a terrifying notion. And when we have a man who won the presidency and still argues that the election was rigged against him, it's not ridiculous.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Marijuana Nihilist posted:lol i still remember when hysterical leftists thought george w bush wouldn't relinquish power at the end of his term and institute martial law with fascist death camps Once again, I have no fantasy that Trump will lead a military coup or change the Constitution or whatever. I'm saying that he won't concede if he loses in 2020. The best case scenario is him "reluctantly" stepping down. And everything he has said or done lends evidence to that. Once again, he's someone who won the US Election and still claims it was rigged.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 17:51
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 6, 2024 04:21 |
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:I do remember, on the other hand, tons of people on the left challenging the legitimacy of Trump's election, pushing for electors to steal the election from him and give it to someone else instead, asserting that the entire election was rigged by the Russians, and so on. And while Obama never pushed to jail his opponent, there sure were a lot of naive Obama supporters who hoped that he would jail his predecessor.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 18:11
|
|