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This is a thread for what is the best character in comics. ALL DISSENTERS AGAINST THAT INDISPUTABLE FACT WILL BE BRUTALLY EXECUTED IN THE NAME OF THE AVENGING SON, NAMOR THE FIRST, PRINCE OF ATLANTIS, EMPEROR OF THE DEEP, LORD OF THE SEVEN SEAS, COMMANDER OF THE UNDERSEA LEGIONS AND PRINCE OF THE BLOOD Let's begin!  I have always felt that Prince Namor, the Sub-Mariner, is one of comicbook world's most fascinating characters. Even the way he is known is strange, almost anyone can name him but don't know much about his history, importance or features. I think that pound for pound, he is by far the most underrated character in comics, and is in fact a pioneer in complex stories and important themes. Namor is arguably the first villain, the first anti-hero AND the first hero of Marvel Comics, having played many parts over the years. Throughout this thread I will attempt to give you a good view of the character, and hopefully make you interested in him. I'm doing this partly to catch up with the character myself, I haven't paid that much attention to him in the years. As I have understood he is currently at his villain phase, which always makes for great stories. And yes, there will be quite a lot of text here. Nothing useless though, and lot of images will be coming too, so I hope you can bear with me! If not, TD;LR: Namor is cool and great!   Namor precedes virtually every major character in comic book history. Only Superman is older then him, with Action Comics #1 (June 1938) preceding Bill Everett's debut comic in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 (April 1939) - Marvel Comics #1 is actually Namor's second published appearance, making him the oldest character in Marvel Comics as well and the only one to exist before the concept of Marvel Comics.  Bill Everett, Namor's creator (and co-creator of Daredevil) was a fascinating man himself, a descendant of William Blake, both an artist and an writer, he was also a fabulist who spun fanciful tales of his past and kept his background secret from anyone who knew him. If you've been watching Netflix's new Daredevil series, you might have caught him in the credits (Everett sadly died at 55. Ever wonder if Stan Lee and Ditko made some bizarre pact with the devil for comic book fame and immortality?)  From the beginning Namor stood out from the other characters of his era. He was not a hero. Quite the opposite, in his first appearance he brutally murders two American divers and begins a war against surface world. Over the next 77 years Namor would weave his way into the every major Marvel property, becoming an integral part of the mythos of many much more famous characters. And uniquely, he would be both their friend and foe.     Namor's relationship with the rest of the Marvel Universe is defined by the fact that he is a king of a sovereign nation. In this he resembles the more well known Aquaman, but unlike the latter Namor is not a good king. He is not a kind king. He is a heir to a 21,000 year old autocracy, a harsh tyrant who claims all oceans as his domain. Throughout his rule he has been overthrown by popular revolts, military coups, palace intrigue, his own relatives and two of his own children, and the mother of one of those children. All those cases have mostly ended in the same way - Namor kills anyone responsible, usually with his bare hands. From the beginning, Bill Everett made no excuse for his actions or tried to paint him as anything else then what countless rulers raised to rule from birth have been in history - capricious, ambitious, vengeful, vain and proud. Despite being a half-breed bastard nobody even entertained the idea of opposing his rule (at first) - and it was not because Namor was particularly wise or capable. He has not become a better person over the years. Quite the opposite, due to the fact that he is an immortal most Atlanteans remember nothing before Namor. Their century old king is worshipped as a God-Emperor, and he has no problemo playing that part.  There is one good quality in a ruler that Namor possesses, in amounts enough to offset all his weaknesses. He is always prepared to defend Atlantis, a kingdom that is, customary to comics, almost always under existential threat. Even when he has been exiled by his people (numerous times) he is always the Avenging Son, wiping out anyone hurting or threatening his people with extreme prejudice. (He has personally killed three of his children for those reasons, in case you were wondering that extreme did not mean extreme) It is this quality that from the beginning allowed Marvel to tell quite different stories from the usual hero tales, and feature Namor in roles of both a hero (to his people) and a villain (to everyone else), much like real nations in history. The interests of Atlantis, at least those that Namor considers to be those interests, always comes first. Sometimes those interests align with the heroes of Marvel comics. Sometimes they don't.  What is in my opinion the best quality of the character and the reason for his endurance in the comic book world is that from the start, Namor was incredibly flawed. Realistic. There is very little that is admirable about him. He is self-righteous, has maybe the shortest temper in comics (he is CONSISTENTLY pissed off about something more frequently then the Hulk), he is petty, has betrayed almost anyone he has ever allied with, is an unapologetic aristocrat, serial adulterer (both sides of the equation) cares nothing about honor if the only way to win is dirty, nor shies from killing innocents. Namor has been portrayed as conqueror, murderer, tyrant, traitor and terrorist, long before such things were widely accepted for a protagonist in comic books. Yet he has been readily accepted by the readers in the role of someone to root for, when it suits him. How?     Perhaps it is because comics featuring him have always shown that things have two sides. Nobody is entirely good. Nobody is entirely bad. Namor's bad traits can manifest as good ones - his fury turns into persistence against all odds. His pride might show as honor. Unwillingness to compromise becomes loyalty. Brutality in service of a cause the readers agree with can make him appear as hero. But the comics always make it clear that he is not one. He is mercurial, switching sides when it suits him or his nation (which again, are much the same thing). He is (though he is not) a human being, as prone to selfishness and error as anyone else. A more one-sided character might have been rendered into obscurity, but Namor persisted throughout the years, as a remarkably unchanged character. Compare Batman now with Batman then. Daredevil from start to finish. In a form of entertainment where characters change often and sometimes radically, Namor has always stayed consistent, yet complex.  I like to think of Namor as a character who managed to escape the pulp era and infiltrate the costumed comic era. He is imperfect to the point of being outright unsympathetic, like many of the early pulp heroes (using the wide definition of term "hero") like James Bond, Conan the Barbarian, the Shadow, Mandrake the Magician, etc. And like those characters his stories - as well as his geographic separation - have always given birth to stories that are mixture of the kind of stories such characters feature in. MIlitary conflict. Cold War drama. Nazi-killing. Secret underwater civilizations. Alien queens. Nazi-killing. Swordfights. Bizarre foes and bizarre friends. A shitload of Nazi-killing. He has been a staple of comics for a long, long time, and the storylines have tackled everything that has occurred in modern history, often with considerable maturity in comparison. This continues to this day, with stories concerning anything from terrorism to genocide. He has not coasted through comics with ease either, and his life fits more tragedy then practically any other comic book character has endured - and when Namor's supporting cast dies they usually stay dead. He has lost wives, children, his father, mother, grandfather, numerous cousins, friends and countless subjects of his undersea empire. Namor was the 90's dark anti-hero half-a-century years before the 90's existed. He played Magneto's part before X-Men were even a thought in Stan Lee's head. He was born before the comic book universe he exists was created. He can be a villain, a hero or something between the both without sacrificing his character or credibility.  I'll leave you with Yul Brynner, the man who was sadly born in the same year as Namor in comic books (1920) and thus existed way too early to play the role he was born to be. How about Dwayne Johnson? In the future I will try to frequently post more stuff, detailing his history and role in the lives of other Marvel Comics characters, but I hope this introduction caught your attention and you learned new things about Namor. If you'd like me to feature specific things feel free to suggest! Sources In order: 1. Namor the Sub-Mariner by Gabriele Dell'Otto 2. Early Namor panel by Bill Everett 3. Duh 4. Bill Everett at his working desk 5. Namor by Alex Ross 6. 7. 8. 9. Fantastic Four #585 10. The Marvels Project #1 11. The Marvels Project #6 12. 13. 14. 15. Fantastic Four 1234 #3 16. Marvels (TPB) 17. Yul Brynner in The King and I (1956) P.S. Bill Jemas & Salvador Larroca never worked together on a Namor comic and if you try to tell me that they did I will come to your house and hurt you DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 17:24
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Also, because I have it ready, the only person who loves Namor more then I do:    (this one is an edit)                  Most images were taken from here: http://fyeahdoomandnamor.tumblr.com/
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Feb 20, 2017 17:28
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I've always liked Namor's presence as a foil for the (often blind) righteousness you find in practically every major Marvel character who takes a leadership role. When someone--anyone--makes a unilateral decision in Namor's presence, he's sure to offer a high-handed dissenting opinion. One that cannot be ignored. And they're lucky if he expresses his dissent in mere words. Doom often fills a similar role, which makes his interactions with Namor all the better. How can sparks not fly between them?
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Feb 20, 2017 17:52
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 Seemed obligatory.
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Feb 20, 2017 18:00
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Whenever Namor's brought up I think of Byrne's attempt to make him a corporate raider, an idea I liked. Don't remember how the execution was, although it's post 80's Byrne so I'll assume it didn't work. But the idea is a good one: Wanna protect the environment? Become the ruling body! Also this thread needs the pizza bagels panel and some references to what an absolute slut Namor is.
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Feb 22, 2017 06:13
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 There can never be enough Namor.
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Feb 25, 2017 13:36
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Just chiming in to say that's a brilliant OP, looking forward to seeing more.
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Feb 25, 2017 14:35
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Wish I had it floating around, but the whole bit in New Avengers when he's eating with Doom and Kristoff and has this rare depressive "human" moment and Doom just slams him. I love that scene because it's such a great look at the Namor/Doom relationship, they're both kings with vast power and the love and sometimes fear of their people. Doom knows exactly what he is and seems so disappointed that Namor has seemingly forgotten himself.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:49
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DarkCrawler posted:Also, because I have it ready, the only person who loves Namor more then I do: Huh. Never knew Doom was so enamored.
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Feb 26, 2017 23:58
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People constantly joke that Richard's significant other is thirsty for Namor. They just don't mean Sue.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:13
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Why not both? The Reed-Doom-Namor-Sue quadrangle.
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Feb 27, 2017 05:23
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One of my favorite Namor moments is from an early What If where Sue leaves Reed to marry Namor. It's a sequel to What If #1. Long story short, Reed and Johnny invade Atlantis and Johnny's powers have been upgraded so that he can stay flamed on underwater. Namor deals with him by covering Johnny with a fire-resistant net. He then bearhugs the Human Torch and headbutts him into unconsciousness, finally deactivating the flames. Namor's men come to him and find him badly burned. As they tend to his wounds, he hears that Sue's in labor, so he decides to put off having his burns treated.
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Feb 27, 2017 08:09
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TGG posted:Wish I had it floating around, but the whole bit in New Avengers when he's eating with Doom and Kristoff and has this rare depressive "human" moment and Doom just slams him. I love that scene because it's such a great look at the Namor/Doom relationship, they're both kings with vast power and the love and sometimes fear of their people. Doom knows exactly what he is and seems so disappointed that Namor has seemingly forgotten himself. I remember this scene. It is good. Someone should post it.
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Feb 27, 2017 19:30
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Is Namor still dead?
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Feb 28, 2017 00:44
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No, they went back in time and grabbed him before he got decapitated
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Feb 28, 2017 00:57
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That's cheating!
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Feb 28, 2017 06:31
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Imperious Sex! Some issue of Kieron Gillen's Uncanny X-Men I believe.
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Feb 28, 2017 06:39
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 I find Namor's relationship with the X-Men and mutantkind super interesting. The OP talks about how he'll always show up to defend Atlantis, but he's associated with the mutants almost as much nowadays. It would be really easy to wave off his flight ability as some silver age poo poo and just ignore how no other Atlantians do it, but making it an integral part of his identity really deepens an already complex character.
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Feb 28, 2017 07:03
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This doesn't fit the tenor of the thread but I honestly feel it's obligatory:  Real talk I love Namor. He's so angry about everything at all times along with doing whatever he drat well pleases.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:37
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