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Gaius Marius posted:I wonder how quickly the killer would've been caught in persona 4 if the investigation team had someone as competent as Nanjo. Seriously though for all the faults this game has all the characters in it come off as extremely competent and intelligent. Honestly to be fair, the killer had been helping to obfuscate things, a copycat that made it even more confusing, and the only one that's an actual detective still had to wrap her head around the supernatural poo poo.
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May 15, 2017 00:54
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That was a pretty good takedown, even if it's sort of surprising to hear it coming from a sheltered high school student. Admittedly less 'sheltered' now, since this follows 20+ of marching down a road of bullet-riddled demon corpses. None of that mushy 'mindscape' nonsense for Persona 1! Kind of on the fence about the other stuff. I guess someone had to figure it out, and it's not a nonsensical twist based on what we've already seen of the Deva system already but I dunno... The explanations still out of left field. You do raid Kandori's lab, after all. Why not just have Nanjo stumble across a file or something he's been using to piece stuff together behind the scenes. I guess what I'm most curious about it is why the hell the big doomsday machine was synching up with a random girl who'd never been near the thing in the first place. You don't have to spoil anything, but is there at least more to it than that?
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May 15, 2017 02:04
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In case anyone was ever trying to figure out what the words in the original Deva Yuga BGM are They aren't exactly as profound as I originally thought. Also, this is one of the few PSP tracks I actually don't have much of an issue with, both the original and PSP versions are good.
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May 15, 2017 14:26
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Rangpur posted:
Persona 2 retcons this a bit and makes for a fairly interesting idea to think about. To put it another way: Same game, different pieces..
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May 20, 2017 11:21
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SloppyDoughnuts posted:What? That was dumb, how could have Nanjo possibly figured that out on his own? It's like they couldn't figure out a good way to drop that plotdump so they just had Nanjo spontaneously figure it out. He truly is the number one man in Japan.
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May 21, 2017 17:12
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Update 15 - Another face With Maki gone, the rest of the party has to venture back through the dungeon to find her. I'll also take the moment to share one of the cooler tracks from the arranged Persona soundtrack - Deva Yuga. It includes male and female vocals which are quite relevant to the encounter our party just had. quote:"What are you living for? Where do people come from and where are they going?"  Going back through the dungeon, we'll find that Kandori's death means his influence has disappeared from his scientists and secret police. Scientist: I haven't thought about the reason for mankind's existence since childhood. I could never afford to wonder about such things... Scientist: We must preserve mankind's future! Isn't that right, everyone!?  ...... The reason why we're born... Hmmm. Looks like they snapped out of it.Though everyone else has changed dialogue, our party always says the same thing (or doesn't, in Reiji's case).  Secret police: My head feels so heavy... Like I woke up with a wicked hangover. Scientist: What's the meaning of this!? Why did everyone suddenly come to their senses?  Secret police: I wonder why I was born... Now then, where could Maki have gone? Perhaps the Deva System chamber?  Nope. The party stops for a quick chat with the good doctor.  What!? Is this true!? I see... I'm sorry we dragged you into all this. But I have to ask you... can't you somehow rescue Sonomura's daughter? I'll do my best to adjust the system so you can go rescue her whenever you wish! And once that's done, I'll go to whatever fate awaits me. I beg you, young man! Dammit! It doesn't look like she's here. Where are you, Maki!? ...I can't believe this machine opened the way into a human soul. Nothing good can come of its continued existence. We must destroy it somehow. There's only one other place she would have gone - the previously locked door on the third floor.  Strange Atmosphere Maki's Theme - Loneliness Well, we finally found Maki - three of her, to be precise.   You idiot! Why did you kill Daddy!? Don't you know what you did!? Waaaaaaaaaaaah! This is me...? No... I made everyone suffer...? You killed the only one the real me could rely on! No one will save us now! It's all over! There's three Makis... Are they all her?It's important to note that at this point, all of Aki's dialogue is now labeled "Maki" as well.     Calm down, Maki! This has to be some kinda mistake... right?  I messed up the town and made everyone suffer! I did that...! The rest of the party steps closer.  No... that's not it... Please don't be nice to me... I understand everything now. I was jealous of everyone... Wearing cute clothes, walking around town... Gossiping about each other's boyfriends... Laughing and joking... I envied everyone who went to school and had fun with their friends... I wished... that school and the town would all be swallowed up... Maki... Even if I wanted to do something about it, I couldn't... I cried and cried... My jealousy and loathing grew... I made up an ideal town to comfort myself... Now do you understand? I'm hopeless... I don't deserve to live! Aki starts bawling her eyes out again.  Disappear, everyone! Taking her own advice, Aki disappears from the room in a flash.  I... I can't be with you all anymore!     You... you idiot! Why, dammit!? Naoya! Let's go back into Maki's heart!  Huh? The legend says she opened the gods' box, releasing all sorts of evils... It applies to Maki. This town owes its miserable condition to her wishes. Rather than save her, we should focus on destroying the Deva System. Y-You rear end in a top hat... How can you talk that way about a friend!? If we destroy that thing, what's gonna happen to Maki? From the looks of it, the system is keeping Maki alive... If we destroy it, Maki will most likely die as a result. But as long as the system is intact, the fundamental problem remains unsolved. Don't let your personal feelings sway you... A small sacrifice for the greater good... The choice is obvious.   With a swift punch, Mark sends Nanjo tumbling to his knees.  Maybe what you're saying is true. It's the kinda logic an adult would use. But dude... Maki might've made us suffer, but she also tried to save us all... I believe in Maki. I know she has what it takes to break away from that machine. I'm going in... if that girl in white is Maki too, I owe her for rescuing me. Heh... You believe in her, eh? Yamaoka said he believed in me, too... Man is an emotional creature, I suppose. We can split hairs all we like... But the ultimate decision is made by one's heart. I'll go in as well. Sheesh, you and your arguments. You coulda just come out and said so... Wouldn't a clever, mature adult stay here? Unfortunately, as a boy of 17, I'm not legally considered an adult yet. Heheh... When will I learn? You always got some kinda comeback all ready... Good deeds should be done swiftly. Let's dive back into Maki's soul.   Scene - System Collapse  The party peers into the mirror, which shows the Deva System chamber.    Strange Atmosphere Remembrance (Maki's Theme - Sad) Now what!? We can't get back like this! Something must have happened at the town inside Maki's heart... With Kandori gone, she's the only one who could do something like this. What about Kandori's mirror? Let's just have it send us back. Oh yeah, we could still do that, huh?  As if laughing at Reiji's proposition, the mirror promptly shatters.  Is Maki resisting us...!? It seems that way to me... Dammit! What're we gonna do...      It's Maki's compact... Hm. There's no mirror inside...    Reiji picks the compact up from Maki's body and brings it over to show the rest of the group.  The real Maki's compact and the ideal Maki's compact... The real one has a mirror. Hmm... Gimme that, Nanjo! ...... The compact couldn't possibly have such powers in the real world. If only the ideal Maki's compact was complete, then maybe...The party splits up to mull over the situation, Nanjo and Mark sulking near the mirror while Reiji heads to Maki's bed.  But if her ideal self denied its own existence... Maki... have you really lost hope? If there's even a fragment left, call out to us... Maki... Everyone wants to see you, y'know? There's not need to suffer alone. Just call on us, please... I'd go anywhere for you... My mom was Kandori's dad's old mistress. She got thrown away like an old rag. But even knowing that would happen... She still gave birth to me. Know why she did that? She told me she couldn't neglect her own child's life... You have a mom too. No parent alive doesn't love their child. You're gonna see your mom again, so hurry and wake up!  Tucked away in the corner is a shiny little object for Naoya to spot.     Intrigued, Nanjo heads over to Naoya.  This size and shape... I think it may fit Maki's compact! Reiji and Mark hurry over, excited by the news.  Lemme see that, Naoya!Mark snatches the shard from Naoya's hands and jams it into the compact.  Whoa!  Strange Atmosphere Mystery   Owwww! Ugh... Huh? I get it... The compact brought us here... > The Broken Compact has become the Red Compact. Ngh... Where are we!? Looks like it worked... This looks like the forest where that girl in white was... the child-Maki.Everybody composes themselves and groups around Setsuko.   Same to you, lady! Why're YOU here? I... don't really know... After I transported you all, I thought I heard Maki's voice again... And when I came to, I was here... But why have you all come back? Allow me to explain. You should know the truth...~One explanation later~  What about Maki!? What's going to happen to her!? If we leave her be, she'll stay that way for the rest of her life. Or worse... No... Can't you do something!? My Maki...! Cool it, lady! That's why we came back. Don't worry... We won't let it end like this. Thank you, everyone...   Let's go! That li'l Maki might know something! Wait! Please... take me with you! She's my daughter! I can't leave her suffering like this! ...Very well. However, this forest is hazardous. Your survival is far from assured. I don't care about that! Then that settles that. Come on, Toudou. Let's reunite a mother with her child. Mark's got a thing for the Sonomura ladies, it seems. My mom... she's just a loud nag. But she better still be alive! I don't think she'd die that easy... That's how mothers really are inside... Their kids just don't know it. I'm... such an awful mother. My daughter is suffering, and I can't do anything for her... That woman is a true mother... I don't even know my own mother's birthday... At home, everyone other than Yamaoka was like a total stranger to me. All I received from my parents was money and material possessions.
PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 06:48
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...I can not be the only one getting a "Nanjo = Spock, Masao = McCoy" vibe from those two, am I?
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May 26, 2017 16:58
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"Nanjo, you tool! This is a Persona game! There is literally no greater strength than the power of friendship!" What a great scene.
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May 26, 2017 17:18
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 From the looks of it, the system is keeping Maki alive... If we destroy it, Maki will most likely die as a result. But as long as the system is intact, the fundamental problem remains unsolved. Don't let your personal feelings sway you... A small sacrifice for the greater good... The choice is obvious.From "leave her to die" to "we have to get her mom to her even if we get loving murdered" in 2 cutscenes. Nanjo, you waffle.
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May 27, 2017 15:43
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I'm really digging this LP because it's super cool seeing the (imo) magnificent narrative elements found in later Persona titles peppered throughout Persona 1's plot and dialogue. For example, I find Nanjo's incredibly rapid flip-flopping between "cold hard Spock poo poo" and "we have to get her mom to her even if we get loving murdered" as one of the most believably teenager-y bits of characterization in this script (at least so far). P3-P5 really double down on trying to portray this emotionally realistic sense adolescence, and I'm really enjoying seeing the beginnings of that design. Late to the party, but I also agree that the PSP ost--while catchy--doesn't really fit the game's aesthetic and tone.
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May 27, 2017 16:06
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Nanjo should stop reading the script ahead of everyone else. I generally prefer it when my JRPG characters don't need to be spoon fed the plot by the antagonists but it'd be nice if he at least had some ellipsis when running into clues or something to show he's figuring things out in the background or something.
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May 27, 2017 17:04
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It's clear the writers fell into a common trap when writing characters that are suppose to be smart with Nanjo - they turn them into exposition dispensers, and somehow they're able to magically know the plot without showing signs of learning or piecing it together.
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May 27, 2017 20:40
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i mean.... he's the Number #1 Man In Japan sorry you can't all keep with him
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May 27, 2017 22:33
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Update 16 - Intrapersonal communication After the party decides to rescue Maki, it's back into the Lost Forest. Luckily nothing has changed since our last visit. Overcoming Sadness Mai's Theme Whoops, looks like Mai isn't feeling quite as good as last time.   Waaaaaaah! Mommy! I'm sorry, Maki... I'm so sorry... Mommy! Mommy! Waaaaaaah!Like with Aki, Mai's textbox now calls her "Maki."  ...Uh-huh. Maki... We want to help you. The real you. I know that sounds weird, but is there anything you can do? Nuh-uh... Nothing. Why not? Aren't you also one aspect of Maki?   The really bad me is called Pandora... Aki broke Pandora's seal. Pandora swallowed Aki, and now she's trying to make this world go away. But if she does that... We'll... I'll... die... Then where can we find this Pandora? The school...! She must be beyond that door we found in the library. Am I correct? Uh-huh. But you'll need the three compacts... and my energetic self's help. Energetic... You mean the ideal Maki? We have the three compacts, don't we? Red and green... We're missing one. Where's the final compact and the ideal Maki? Please save the energetic me first... It's all my fault... My energetic self is crying deeper in the forest... There's another Maki behind this door? Then I'm coming with you all! You guys okay with that? I mean, she's come this far... Let's go, Naoya. I never would have imagined that girl was the ideal Maki... What? My "face looks gentle"? You keep joking around, and that won't be true for long. Man, I'm confused. How many Makis are there, anyways?C'mon Mark, keep it together! We've only got five different Makis to remember! Lost Forest Night Cry of the Forest (Dungeon - Lost Forest) To get to Maki, we'll need to travel even deeper into the inner Lost Forest.   This part is filled with even more twists and turns, culminating in a field of arrows near the end  Overcoming Sadness Maki's Theme - Loneliness  Look! These people came all this way because they were worried about you! Scene - Closed Heart       Don't you know what kind of girl I am? Maki... I know you feel like you can't just let it go... But doesn't everyone get jealous now and then, one way or another? I know I do. And on top of that, you were just being used. It's Kandori's fault, not yours. How often did I try to kill everyone!? How can you be so nice to me!? I don't want pity. It just makes me more miserable... I deserve to die! That's not true! ...... What a petulant child... You know it, don't you, Naoya!? You know I'm the worst girl alive! Maki, I know plenty of girls who're worse than you who didn't even almost accidentally murder us multiple times. I think you're doing okay. You need to come back with us.  If you want to die, then why sit around and mope about it? Don't make empty threats if you don't have the courage of your convictions! ...... You spoke of pity? Don't make me laugh. We came here of our own will because we could sympathize with you. But even before that... Did you think you were alone in this world? We live at the sufferance of others. Each is responsible for each. Your careless decision would have left behind wounds that would never heal. If you still want to die, even now, go ahead. Put it all behind you. But you're our friend, and we can never put your behind us. Nanjo: No. 1 motivational speaker in Japan?  I don't leave things undone. Maki scrambles up from the bed, mask disappearing from her face.  I'm sorry, everyone... Please... Please let me come along. Maki Maki's Theme - Bright  Heh... I'm back, guys! *sniffle* Thank you, all of you... Thank you so much...  I was so lonely being by myself... It hurt... I wanted to see you... I forgot you were working for my sake, and held a grudge... I'm so sorry. It's okay. It's all right, Maki... I'm sorry, too. I'm sorry, Nanjo, and you too, Naoya... Thank you very much... Nanjo turns his back to the party. ...I should apologize, too. I said some harsh things. Nanjo? Dude... are you blushing!? Haha, I get it! You're so stuck-up, this is the first time anyone's ever thanked you!  As the conversation disperses, Naoya goes over to speak with Maki.  Even if I'm a dream, or an illusion, or a shadow, I'm still me... Plus, I have Naoya and the rest of you with me! That's all I need... I don't know how to thank you all... Maki's a lucky girl to have so many friends. Thanks again... I guess Nanjo's harebrained arguments do come in handy once in a while. Hmph. It's nothing unusual for people to thank me, I can assure you. A touching scene, but we can't stick around here forever, you know. Maki's back, baby! Our team's back at full power, so let's go check back in with Mai. Lost Forest Maki's Theme - Bright That's all right... I'm the one who should apologize. I'm sorry, me. I'm the ideal Maki Sonomura. It's not like me to be so down. Now, can you tell us where the last compact is? Uh-huh. The real me has it. The real you? Isn't that where we got the green one? Naoya already has that one. Nope. That's the one from the real world. The real me's consciousness is at the Alaya Cavern now. She has the last compact. The Alaya Cavern? It's behind the shrine. I'm-- Why? Why can't I go too!? I want to deal with this. It'll be okay... I have friends to help. Maki... All right. But you'd better come back, do you hear me? Hey, me? Look after Mom, okay? Yep! I will. Be careful... me. When you have all three compacts, chant the spell in front of Pandora's door. That should open it. Sounds good to me.  Don't get the wrong idea... It's just my cavities acting up. Hm... a genuine conversation with one's inner child. A strange sight to see... Heh... She's been cute ever since she was a little girl, huh? Mai's me, too... I just realized... I was pretty cute when I was little. Huh? Heehee... maybe that was just a little bit conceited. Only my ideal self can save the real me... Oh... it's something I taught Maki when she was little. With her father dead and me busy with work, Maki was always alone... So I taught her this spell to chant when she was lonely at the hospital. I told her that wherever Mommy was, I could always sense her presence... And she remembered it all this time... Try saying it backwards. That girl's still my treasure...The party is back on the move, starting with making it back outside the Lost Forest.  I never considered the multiple sides of myself... but now they're irrefutable. The next one's the real me, huh? I wonder how many mes there are...Since we haven't been on this side of town for awhile, let's check it out before we end the update, starting with the Mikage Sun Mall.   This song's always on when we come here. It's driving me nuts. Ha! I'm finally used to it! Go ahead and try to brainwash me--it's useless! Sorry, Mr. Tadashi...Area man: I feel like someone's going around and destroying this town...  We could be shopping for a very long time if we insist on the best... But we should at least be equipped with the minimum necessary.Area woman: I would've preferred it if this place stayed the way it was... The way it was... But no matter how nice it used to be, it was still a fake.  So please fix this town! I'm in a real fix... I can't restock my goods! Restock...? Say, where does this town restock its supplies from? Then again, it's no use mulling over things that won't necessarily make sense. Hmm... He's right. If it wasn't natural for weird stuff to happen here... I wouldn't have understood anything. I'm pretty sure we didn't have any business here. Seriously... you're either a brave man or an idiot. I don't get you. Then again, no matter how you slice it, you're an interesting guy.Little girl: I always had the feeling something wasn't right with this town. Maybe it's natural for weird stuff like this to happen here.  This is still one suspicious store.Area man: This town used to be so pleasant... What happened? Is this all a bad dream? A pleasant town, huh...? I need to apologize to the townspeople, too. You're playing games now? I can't tell if you're supremely confident or supremely uncaring... This is stupid. The real me must be imagining all this. I wish she'd make it more predictable...Kogal: Seesh, here I was, goofing off every day, and now things are, like, crazy. So I made up my mind! I'm gonna goof off here until the town disappears! High school girl: The town keeps getting worse and worse! What do I do!? Outside, the party is told that the east side of town has disappeared entirely and it seems whatever made it disappear is slowly encroaching on this side of town as well. The party checks out the inhabitants on the south side.  The demons are gettin' stronger. We gotta keep up our weapons, or we're toast. Did you find a good weapon? Why're you so... Ohhh, I get it. You're scared 'cause the town's gone weird, huh? N-Not at all! I have my doberman, John, and our butler, Sebastian with me! I'm not afraid in the least! Heh. Perhaps we'll stop by after everything's been resolved.
PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 07:55
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It's a shame we don't get to fight Aki directly.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:39
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That freaked me out more than I want to admit.
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Jun 6, 2017 02:24
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Update 17 - I'll face myself With Maki back in the party, why not stop by the Velvet Room and get her a new Persona?  Maki's new Persona is Tensen Nyannyan, the Chinese equivalent to Asparas which served as a basis for the Japanese tenyo spirits. She can be pretty useful due to her resists, as well as her healing skills.  While we're there, I also give Naoya the second Persona of the Fool Arcana. Narukami, the Japanese god of thunder, has a number of powerful magic attacks.  With this many Personas, we're bound to run out of room. We can free up space by deleting Personas, which serves a purpose beyond making more room.  Deleted Personas will turn into various items in a process called Mystic Change. This process, which originated with the original Devil Summoner, is the only way to get certain items. For example, Anubis gives us the Totem item Prosecutor's Diary.  Now then, it's time to hurry on over to the Alaya Shrine like Mai instructed us. Strange Atmosphere Shrine I've told you before Philemon, we can talk like normal people. Do you need me to get you a car or some bus fare or something?  Scene - Philemon's Directive   Well done in returning here. I see my faith in you was not misplaced. The Alaya Cavern behind this shrine leads to the sea of all mankind's souls. All souls are born there and someday return there. Maki Sonomura's soul is about to return to that sea right now. It calls for you and for her ideal self. Now go! Only those who have been called may enter that cavern. Warp together to help the lost soul. Daily Life Shrine  To counteract not having Maki for a dungeon, we now have only Maki and Naoya for this dungeon. It's a pretty short dungeon, so I think we'll be fine.  ...I'm putting Maki in your hands, man. We'll be waiting here. Don't take any silly risks. Then we'll be off. Let's go, Naoya! Alaya Cavern Dungeon - Former Ice Castle  Sure is lonely with just the two of us. I'm already missing everybody else...  If you ever need to regroup, you can head back to the shrine proper to reunite with the rest of the party. I'm happy not to be alone... Having you and the others all here with me...! Careful. There's no knowing what may happen inside. ...You better not die in there. I still want to spar with you sometime. What are you two chatting about? Uh--Uh, nothing! Right, Naoya? Heheh, it's you know, guy talk. Sounds dirty. But never mind that, let's go, Naoya! C'mon! Maki seems... pretty psyched about this.Well, I can't let Maki down, can I? Back into the cavern.   Some of the more interesting demons that can be found in the cavern's depths are the Karma order demons, all named for the seven deadly sins.  And you can't quite negotiate with sin, can you?  Most of the cavern is made up of a number of staircases (I bet the party's legs are going to look amazing after this).  When you hit the eighth floor down, it spreads out into a labyrinth, and there's one important room that shouldn't be missed.  Underground  No way... Is that... Naoya!? Maki looks back and forth between the two boys.  Maki, you are the last person I want to hear that from. Why is he here? And why is he playing games!? A-Are you... really Naoya? That's right. I'm Naoya Toudou. You can call me Naorin. I'm a second-year at St. Hermelin High in class 4. Don't believe me? Want me to tell you my height, weight, and favorite girl? Huh?Someone who sits in the basement playing video games all day? Truly the mirror image of the people playing this game.   And now to begin the proud tradition of Persona Game Flashbacks.   We haven't time to waste here, Naoya! It's too late for her, but not for us! Yo, Naoya! The monsters are just around the corner!  No one wants to die, right? We can catch Kandori anytime. This man needs our help!   Which is better? My breathtaking painting, or Maki's piece? And I want an honest answer!  Isn't it? I don't know why she'd look like that, but what if it really is her mom...? Put your weapon away, Naoya! You see not only with your eyes, but also with your heart...  But you were able to soothe his soul's torment... You could do this because your own soul was free and clear of doubt.  But the further you run, the more you resent yourself. You know all too well.  I'm every inch like you. I'm you... and you're me. We're two sides of the same coin... No, not just two. There are tens of thousands of "you"s inside yourself. ...... Someone seems to be aiming to take your place, but that won't happen. Your will is rooted nice and deep. You have a good grip on yourself.   Thanks, uh, me. I think you and your friends can handle them. They're keys to awakening the strongest Personas sealed deep in one's soul. Ask that old geezer Igor how to use them. But... don't forget. The "me" you see here is still you. As long as you're aware of it, you'll be fine. You're one strong guy.  Just like every character has a special initial Persona, every character also has a special ultimate Persona. These Totems are the only way to fuse them, and answering all questions correctly is the only way to get your hands on the Totems. If you didn't answer a question correctly then you simply won't get the corresponding Totem.  What's wrong? Hurry up and go. Your friends are waiting. Seeya, self.  As much as Naoya would like to take on his other self in a good ol' game of Power Instinct, the party has to move on downstairs to the final floor.    Overcoming Sadness Remembrance (Maki's Theme - Sad)   Real-Maki's bubble draws back from the two.  There's nowhere left to hide! Those countless bubbles... Each one, a different person's consciousness... People's minds are nothing more than fragile bubbles born from this sea... I was a consciousness that should never have been born... If you'd been born first, my life would have turned out much differently... Stop that! I don't want to hear that kind of talk from my own mouth! Did you ever try to change? How? All you did was hide under the sheets and cry! But now's our chance! We can change along with Masao, Kei, Reiji... And Naoya... You just have to get over yourself! ...... I won't run away anymore... I'll own up to the mistakes I've made! You can use it to enter the Avidya World, where Pandora is. I... really didn't want you to see me this way, Naoya...    Well, all I can do now is keep believing in myself... Let's go back to the others!Alright, let's head back out! And other Naoya?  Back to playing games again. How long has been down here? Maybe we could bring him back up and get him into some fighting game tournaments... Maki Shrine  'Bout time! I was getting tired of sitting around. It seems to have gone well, mm? Now then, let's head to the school and meet this Pandora.Just rushing us out the door, Nanjo? Let's stay and talk a bit.  They seem to have been pretty bored while we were gone... Yo Naoya, you didn't try anything funny, did you? Looks like you made it back in one piece. When this is all over... What would you say to some sparring to see who's stronger? You up for it?
PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jun 21, 2017 05:04
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This links to the PS1 opening. Shouldn't one of these be a PS1 track? Also just a question here, but would you get a different Totem item instead of Reiji's if you had gone with another character for his slot? Likewise, would Maki say their name instead?
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Jun 21, 2017 05:18
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PeaceDiner posted:
I actually did miss this room despite knowing about it from a guide, since I was just so worn down by the repetitive dungeons/ encounters at that point.
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Jun 21, 2017 05:51
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Blaze Dragon posted:
Yes, you always get [5th Party Member]'s Totem from doing it.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:40
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So out of curiosity, which totem corresponds to which party member, and what are Elly, Brown, and Ayase's?
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Jun 21, 2017 22:54
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I gotta admit, though you can't talk to them until 2, I always liked Igor's musical troupe from the early games. It's a shame they stop showing up after, even if you can still hear them singing. On a somewhat related note, I find it interesting how 3-onwards tends to treat the personas and the combat as being less and less essentially real. I mean, in 1 and two you have teenagers gunning down corporate security and crazed cultists with personas being able to actually heal people and do things like starting fires, in 3 the weapons are real but there's no just-human enemies, in 4 combat takes place inside the television and in 5 your guns are literally toys (well, models).
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Jun 22, 2017 02:02
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NewMars posted:in 5 your guns are literally toys (well, models). 5's take on this is really good, though. You need specific, high-quality model replicas because the reason they work as guns is because your opponents think they are guns. Now, how ammo works, I have no explanation for (and when called on it Morgana basically goes 'it's a cognitive world it doesn't always make sense').
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Jun 27, 2017 08:21
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Ace of Aces posted:5's take on this is really good, though. You need specific, high-quality model replicas because the reason they work as guns is because your opponents think they are guns. Yeah, that confused me too. Especially since a big chunk of Iwai's story was "The Yakuza needs a big shipment of "fake" guns" I honestly thought it was some sort of American censorship thing. "We can't give teenagers real guns to go around shooting people! Say they're very realistic models, and see about turning all the cigarettes into lollipops." Though I guess that since you're buying them from an airsoft shop, in the real world they would shoot harmless plastic pellets or whatever, but in the cognitive world, the pellets turn into actual hurty bullets, hence the need for ammo.
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Jun 27, 2017 11:58
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the_steve posted:Yeah, that confused me too. That's presumably it, I just didn't worry about it too much since this is a game that features a cat turning into a panel van. "Cats turning into busses is a common cognition for some reason."
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Jun 28, 2017 06:56
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Please keep Persona 5 spoilers in the Persona 5 thread, thanks
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Jun 28, 2017 16:18
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Update 18 - Opening Pandora's Box Now that we've gotten them, let's check out everybody's Ultimate Personas!  First up, the Rosetta Stone grants Naoya the use of Amen Ra. Amen Ra, a fusion of the sun god Ra and the patron deity Amun, was part of the divine family known as the Thebian Triad. Amen Ra's absorption of Nuclear (as well as his resistance to Fire, Ice, Wind, and Electric) are rather nice, and his weakness to Electric, Blast, and Gravity are manageable. The mysterious skill Hieroglyphein, whose in-game description is only the unhelpful "???," is super-effective against Karma and Fiend demons, as well as one special enemy.  Next, the Pasque Flower grants Maki the use of Verdandi. One of the three norns who decide someone's fate, Verdandi's name means "the present." Verdandi's weakness against Death and Curse can be dangerous this late in the game, but her resistance to all other elements and her draining of Expel and Miracle skills is a good trade-off. She is also one of the few Persona to naturally learn the all-party full-heal spell Mediarahan.  Brace yourself: the Amber Glasses grants Nanjo the use of Yamaoka. Yes, Nanjo can use his recently deceased butler as a Persona because Yamaoka wanted to protect his young master just that much. Like Verdandi, Yamaoka's weakness to Death and Curse is somewhat offset by his reflection of other elements.  Next, the Purified Water grants Mark the use of Susano-o (interestingly, Susano-o has managed to be the Ultimate Persona of three different characters at this point). The Shinto god of sea and storms, Susano-o was born of Izanagi when he washed his face off the impurities of the underworld. Though he's got some nice magical and physical skills, he's severely hampered by his weakness to the four main elements and so will not be fused at the moment.  Lastly, the Babylonian Coffin grants Reiji the use of Mot. Mot, the Semitic god of death, attempted to devour Ba'al until his father threatened to overturn his throne. Mot's skillset isn't of much help for the next big battle, but his affinities are. However, I already had other Personas in mind for him to use, so Mot will not be fused at the moment.  Now then, Mai confirmed Nanjo's theory that Pandora is lurking behind the door at St. Hermelin, so the party heads back to school.  The entrance to Avidya World is at the library. My business with this school, this town, was through when Kandori died... Or so I thought. This school and the people in it are figments of the real me's imagination... I'm not sure how to feel about that. Like Mark mentioned, the school is almost completely deserted. Dr. Natsumi and Ms. Saeko have left the nurse's office, the doors all lead to empty rooms, and the door to the courtyard has been locked. The remaining students are waiting in the library. Daily Life Generic BGM-B   Maki! Oh good, you're safe, too! Hey Yosuke, what happened here? There's no one around but you guys. I'm not sure... It was like this when we got back. The east side of town's vanished, too. I want to know what's going on just as much as you do! This must be the work of Pandora... Pandora?  I'm at fault for all of this... It's the real reason behind everything...~ One explanation later ~  So that's it... I promise I'll return everyone to their original world. I know there's no forgiving me for what I did... but I'm really, really sorry. If you want to hit me, Chisato, I'll understand. Go right ahead. You're such an idiot, Maki! You're just as thick as you've always been... It's me who needs to apologize. You called me to this world because you thought of me as your best friend, right? And I... I betrayed you... You've got it backwards, Maki. It's me who needs your forgiveness... Chisato... Thanks... Now go on. We'll wait here so we don't get in your way. Once things settle down... let's all go to an amusement park together! Sound good? ...Yeah. An amusement park, huh? Heheh... Might be fun to act like a kid again for a day. So let's hurry up and get this done! Maki, please open the door for us.  Maki places the three compacts in the circle before hopping back up to say the magic words.     Before heading into the beast's lair, let's do one last walk around the room to talk with everyone.  Be careful. But man, you've got it made, huh? It's easy to tell who Maki likes... Just keep hanging in there. I can't do much, but I'll be rooting for you guys. Hmm... These compacts may represent the three primary colors of light. One's heart can be any color, I suppose. Which color all depends on one's self... Perhaps that's the reasoning behind it. Hurry up and go. I'll take out the small fry for you. This is finally it... Let's give it everything we got, Naoya! Avidya World Devil, Sing! (Dungeon - Avidya World) The party descends the steps of the school into the final dungeon, Avidya World. Avidya is a concept in both Buddhism and Hinduism which denotes ignorance, but in different ways. In Buddhism, Avidya typically refers to misconceptions of metaphysical reality and the Four Noble Truths; not exactly a lack of knowledge, but a "deep seated misperception of reality." In Hinduism, Avidya is a fundamental misconception of the phenomenal world, and "unwisdom" has been suggested as a better translation. It includes not just ignorance due to lack of knowledge, but also misconceptions and mistaking illusion to be reality, impermanent to be permanent, suffering to be bliss, etc. Since Maki's "really bad self" is lurking within, the concept of Avidya is a pretty good one to apply to her world since it is based off of Maki's dreams and desires rather than reality, and is a distortion and misrepresentation of her initial wishes.  RPG final dungeons tend to be big, long, and sometimes irritating, and of course the MegaTen series makes no exception. It really doesn't have much in the way of gimmicks - it's content to just be full of dead-ends.   That's not to say it doesn't have anything going for it, though. It sports the longest and largest dark area we've seen, with various paths and a dead end.  The party keeps going further and further down until... Dungeon - Pandora's Den (Innermost Area) The PS1 version lets you know very well that you've stepped into the beast's lair.  Pandora obviously doesn't want us here, as there are damage floors every few steps.  The dangerous labyrinth of the basement floor isn't helped by the fact that the nearest savepoint is all the way back on the second floor, which means a long trek if you fall to any enemies.  Now then... shall we? Scene - Origin of Evil      The worst parts of yourself are pretty ugly, aren't they? Confrontation Tension   Another me!? So... this is Pandora! Look! Is that the core of the Deva System behind it!? Pandora: This... is the gate to paradise... And I won't... ssshhrr... give it up... I'll use it to create my paradise... A place where nothing exists... No! That's no "gate to paradise" to all! It's a Pandora's box that will bring evil to this world!  Pandora: These things... I do not need... Now begone from me... Fsssshrrrraaaa! Boss - Pandora Pandora, The Last Battle Transistory Butterfly (Pandora's Battle)The PS1 battle music is super highly recommended! It's a rather dark, pulsing theme that has a number of movements. The PSP theme, while good, sounds a lot like a rejected P4 or Raidou battle theme instead of its own thing, and doesn't quite live up to the PS1 theme. Still a great song, though!   She can cause a nasty case of paralysis to one of our party members with Evil Smile. And if one case of paralysis is bad enough...  She can cause a whole party paralysis with the move Paralyze Puncture. Not only can it inflict paralysis, it can also knock a pretty decent amount of health off of everybody.  Pandora also likes to use the paralysis to her advantage to hit an afflicted party member with Petrama, which turns them to stone. Since a paralyzed party member has absolutely no way to move or dodge, Petrama is guaranteed to hit them.  In addition to hitting us with status ailments, Pandora can raise her attack and defense with Tarukaja and Rakukaja. Tarukaja helps when she attacks by ramming into party members, and Rakukaja makes her already high HP (5826) more annoying.  Other than Paralyze Puncture, Pandora's biggest attack is the heavy ice attack Bufudyne. Now whose initial Persona specialized in ice magic...?  So what can take her down? Well, in addition to Karma and Fiend enemies, Amen Ra's Hieroglyphein is also super-effective against Pandora and is the easiest way to cause massive damage to her. Other than that attack, she's weak to guns and axes.  After taking enough damage, Pandora howls in pain and collapses to the ground. The lump of flesh with Maki's face on it retracts back into the rest of its body and convulses.   After the shaking stops, a large, brightly-colored butterfly breaks from the cocoon and flutters into place.  Boss - Pandora (Second Form)  And here comes round 2! Like most MegaTen final bosses, Pandora is a two-phase battle. This time she's got a whopping 15,000 HP, almost triple the amount her first form had. She can also hit twice per turn.  Like the first form, butterfly Pandora's got a number of ailment-inducing skills in her repertoire. First is Desanga, which prohibits the afflicted from changing their Persona for three turns. This is bad enough in a regular battle, but can be very dangerous and irritating in this battle for reasons that will be explained.  With Decover, Pandora can also ban recovering HP for three turns. Other than those two, Pandora is able to charm our party with Marin Karin.  Pandora's real "screw you" move is Butterfly Storm, which both inflicts a hefty amount of non-elemental damage (no getting out of this attack!) and inflicts random ailments.  Her other magic attack is the all-target ice spell Mabufudyne.  For physical attacks, she's got Wing Flap, which is a weak Rush move that hits one party member.  She can also smack us around with her antennas while crying out, "Please, no more!" Like her first form, she's weak to Hieroglyphein. She's now also weak to all physical attacks as well as Miracle. On the other hand, she absorbs all elements and nulls Expel and Death.  It's not over quite yet, though.  Because her second form actually has two different forms itself that she can switch between at will. There's no rhyme or reason to when she's going to switch, and can even switch between forms in the same turn that she attacked. Fortunately, the two forms share a HP pool. Blue-haired Pandora is the opposite of red-haired Pandora in terms of elemental affinity. Blue-haired Pandora resists all physical attacks and is weak to all elemental attacks except for Ice, Wind, and Blast. This is really cool because it means that powerful physical or magical attack you just sent her way can easily be resisted or absorbed if she decides to switch forms before you can attack.  I wouldn't necessarily call blue-haired Pandora stronger, since she focuses more on defense than offense. She can raise her defense and lower the party's offense in order to lower the damage she takes. If things get rough, she can heal a nice amount of HP with Mediarama.  If she wants to, she can also wipe away all of your buffs with a cast of Dekaja. Her final defensive move is All Guard, which negates all damage for a turn. Other than a basic attack, her only other offensive capability is Symphony of Lament, which inflicts guilt on the entire party. After a somewhat lengthy battle, Pandora finally lets out her death cry. Maki Maki's Theme - Loneliness You already know, don't you? It's 'cause we're not alone. Heheh... That, and we believe in ourselves... People can't live in isolation. If things are hard, just look around. We'll be there for you.  Let's end this... together...Pandora: Thank you...     Yeah... Thank you... all of you. We have to part ways now... But I'll never forget you all. Hey! Whaddaya mean, part ways...? I'm only a shadow of Maki Sonomura. I can't go with you... It was fun... Really, it was... Hey! Maki...! That's not fair! Whoa!    One by one the party disappears until only Naoya remains. Scene - Maki's Confession  I'll send all of you back to the real world. One second.     Thank you. I hope you'll still think about me, at least once in a while. Goodbye. I love you.   Goodbye...We have to bid ideal Maki farewell, but the game's not over yet! Stay tuned for the ending.
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Jun 29, 2017 05:17
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...Is it just me, or does this game feel really short? I mean, we still have the Snow Queen Quest and all, but still.
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Jun 29, 2017 05:55
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Junpei posted:...Is it just me, or does this game feel really short? I mean, we still have the Snow Queen Quest and all, but still. I mean you're missing out on literally like 60 hours of running around and grinding and fusing.
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Jun 29, 2017 06:00
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I think Yamaoka being Nanjo's final Persona is really cute. Even moreso if they're meant to be aspects of each person's personality, not only is Yamaoka willing to defend his master from beyond the grave, but he's been such a giant influence in his life that his own personality has shades of Yamaoka's own. You said that Pandora being able to switch elements at will is "really cool". I'd call it really terrible design myself. If there was something that foreshadowed it, fine, but if it is entirely random, then the player can get hosed over by the RNG disliking them. There's no way to plan around something entirely random. Also that last scene was...wow. It did not work in the slightest. I feel sorry for Mark, but at the same time, if that's all the emotion Maki can put into telling someone that she loves them, maybe it's for the best.
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Jun 29, 2017 06:10
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Blaze Dragon posted:You said that Pandora being able to switch elements at will is "really cool". I'd call it really terrible design myself. If there was something that foreshadowed it, fine, but if it is entirely random, then the player can get hosed over by the RNG disliking them. There's no way to plan around something entirely random. Pretty sure that was a sarcastic "really cool". That sort of shifting of elemental affinity / form is really the worst in RPGs with round based combat (where you input all commands at the beginning of the turn and everything plays out without your control.) I'm looking at you, Abyssal God from Etrian Odyssey III Other than maybe just being bad at the game back in the day, I think that's part of why Persona 1 is in this sort of hall of shame of JRPGs I played back in the day where I played up to the final boss's door but never beat it. Oddly I seem to remember that I did beat the Snow Queen quest though Persona 1 is definitely on the short side in terms of the amount of story content, number of areas and so forth. It's true that the LP is a very abridged version of the game since most of the wandering in dungeons and combat is glossed over. You can get lost for some time in the larger / more confusing dungeons, and the encounter rate is very high on the PSP (and original Japanese PS1) versions but I would not say that the Sebec quest takes anywhere near 60 hours unless maybe you are grinding to fuse the highest level personas. Maybe 20-30 hours I would say that when you combine both of the quests the game is the length of the average big RPGs Of course you might also be comparing them to the Persona games from 3 onwards which are all ridiculously long and each 2-3 times the length of the average big JRPG
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Jun 29, 2017 09:51
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Well my game clock says 999:59 so we can go with that.
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Jun 29, 2017 15:38
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So, turns out the "back head" of Pandora's first form is partly composed of another Maki bending over. Before seeing the stills in this LP, I'd always assumed it was a reference to Mara, everyone's favorite dick-chariot. On the plus side, they certainly didn't shy away from making the darkest parts of someone's heart ugly, gotta give 'em that. Also, ouch... poor Mark never had a chance, huh?
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Jul 4, 2017 14:02
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Junpei posted:...Is it just me, or does this game feel really short? I mean, we still have the Snow Queen Quest and all, but still. Like Item Getter and Gaius Marius mentioned, it's a combination of this being one half of the full game and the fact that a large amount of the game is spent dungeon-crawling (which would've been boring to see a lot of). Persona 1 in general is shorter and has less dialogue than all of the other games as well. It's hard to judge how much a normal playthrough of the game is because the PSP version has a bug where the game also counts time when the PSP is in sleepmode, but by the time I got to the end when playing for the LP I was clocked in at around 55 hours. Item Getter posted:Pretty sure that was a sarcastic "really cool". Sorry, yeah, that was sarcastic (I might wanna make that more clear or just change the line entirely). This, plus her abundance of HP, can make it a somewhat long and annoying fight. I love Persona 1 because of the characters, story, music, atmosphere, etc. and the fact that it paved the way for future Persona games, but I wouldn't call the gameplay anywhere near "amazing." Pieuvre posted:So, turns out the "back head" of Pandora's first form is partly composed of another Maki bending over. Before seeing the stills in this LP, I'd always assumed it was a reference to Mara, everyone's favorite dick-chariot. I'd really like to see more weird, gross, and creepy monsters in Persona (and MegaTen in general) because human nature is pretty darn ugly and demons should show this. There's been some unsettling ones in the later Persona series (for example, Asmodeus in Persona 5 and the final boss of Innocent Sin), but I want more, man!
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Jul 5, 2017 05:02
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I'd wondered if Pandora's first form was the inspiration for Mara, but a quick search showed Mara was in the original Shin Megami Tensei (1992) and Persona came out in 1996, so it is the other way around, if anything. It works on multiple levels, though, beyond the visual design. Wikipedia quotes buddhist writings saying that Mara is the cycle of death, rebirth, and desire, and could be considered "the personification of all the forces working against enlightenment." Which is exactly what Pandora is in the game. Pandora as the name doesn't make as much sense to me; Pandora opened the box containing all diseases letting them loose on the world, but closed the box in time to prevent Hope from escaping. That doesn't match the role in the game, unless she represents false hope that the machine and splitting the worlds is a good thing - which ties back to Mara.
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Jul 8, 2017 03:27
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that can be it, also Pandora means "all gifts", and was designed to be a kind of honeypot to punish humanity after Prometheus gave them fire, so she can be another type of temptation - while Mara tempts Buddha to test him, Pandora was designed to punish anyone that takes the bait
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Jul 8, 2017 03:39
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Update 19 - I Am, I Exist Scene - Golden Butterflies  Nothing more need be said. I'm sure you have all discovered by now your true selves. The smiles you wear are no longer false masks. You may find yourselves troubled or suffering or lost in the future, but there is nothing to fear. Look to your soul for your true self. No matter what trials you may face, that will be enough for you to weather the storm. Now go forth into your bright futures.  And so Philemon reveals his face. The character designer for this game, Kaneko Kazuma, has stated that he's supposed to look like a middle-aged Chinese man due to the game's connection with the Chinese philosopher Zhuang Zhou, who wrote the famous Butterfly Dream passage in his book Zhuangzi which is quoted at the beginning of the game. Along with that connection, he was inspired by the spirit guide Philemon that Jung saw in his dreams.      Philemon disperses into butterflies, a form which he'll take for much of the later Persona series.    Scene - Into the Future   Tacked onto the front of St. Hermelin High is a banner which proudly reads "32nd Graduation Ceremony."   Look a little happier, Naoya! Not everyone can defeat monstrous beings, save the town, and still manage to graduate high school.  Mark spots the rest of the group and rushes over to meet with them.  Friends who we've gotten to know well...  Friends who we can grow closer with...  And friends who didn't quite start out that way...  Naoya raises his head to peer into the bright blue sky looking over Mikage-cho.  Daily Life Quiet Notch Good ol' Peace Diner. Thinking about it, Mark never did get around to buying us an all-you-can-eat dinner here, did he? Cheapskate.   Heheh... That's certainly one way to greet a room.  Masao... They tell me you hate heights.  Hidehiko was telling anyone who'd listen. Something about this being the last day... I came to get a good look at you, screaming in terror. Indeed? That does sound like something worth witnessing... I believe I'll stay around to observe as well. That dick! He's always doing stuff like this! What're you laughing about!? Look, there's no way I'm going! Forget it!  Look at that smile! I'm glad to see you're doing better, Maki.   It seems Masao's cancelling today's plans. Such a pity... Huh!? How come? I was really looking forward to it... Nanjo, you evil...! Heh heh heh... Is he telling the truth, Masao? N-No way... Um... I'm... I'm goin'.   Maki skips on out of the restaurant, ready for some amusement park fun.     Heh. Pandora, eh...? Don't tell me you're still thinking about all that. Oh, it's nothing. I only just remembered the last thing in Pandora's box... Well then, Naoya, shall we go?For those who forgot or don't know: the last thing was hope.     At Maki's call, Naoya is the last one to leave Peace Diner. Scene - Cherry Blossoms       Song of Everybody's Soul (SEBEC Route Good Ending)If you recognize the tune starting at the one-minute mark, it's because it's the basis for the first part of the Velvet Room theme from Persona 3 and onwards.      Credits   Thanks to everybody for reading to the end of the SEBEC route! There's two more things to look at before we start up the Snow Queen Quest, so stay tuned! PeaceDiner fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 18:35
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I like the endings here. After all the horrible poo poo that's happened, it's nice to get a little ordinary  ... although Great job showing this off, PeaceDiner. I've never seen the Snow Queen Quest, so I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:54
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Wow, being really vague with the protagonist there.
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Jul 10, 2017 04:43
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| # ? May 2, 2024 00:59 |
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Huh? I thought it was obvious Philemon's face is just an older version of the protagonist's.
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Jul 10, 2017 07:13
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