Survivor Season 34 - Changing the game by dipping back into the well

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Survivor Season 34 - Changing the game by dipping back into the well

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Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

RIP "Tony and Sandra" - the greatest alliance in the history of Survivor, sunk by an overheard 4am conversation in under a day,

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 16:29

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 20:41

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I think the #1 under reported story from this episode is that basically every player knows a swap is coming at 18. Sandra's weakness people say is that she's a challenge liability but that's really out the window if you don't know whether she's going to be on your tribe after the vote.

Tony's exit interview he says, yeah there were 5 of us that I think wanted to keep me, he seemed pretty confident he could have had Michaela, but they just wouldn't do it and wouldn't talk to him. The swap is relevant here too, because if you know a swap is coming, do you really want to head in there after a contentious 5-4 vote? Nah, you need a consensus vote going into that swap.

So why did Tony's potential people be the ones that surrendered to make that consensus, I don't know. A testament to Sandra to some degree I'm sure, maybe Troyzan also was totally set against Tony, maybe Malcolm just decided to be actively flexible and let Caleb etc know he was going the other way. Once they get into tribes of six, Malcolm is going to be basically untouchable and then there will be the chance for Sandra to become a target.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 14:51

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

To be fair Tai was doing everything he possibly could to tell her without telling her.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 17:29

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Poque posted:

Hmm, I didn't get that impression at all. But I don't think we got to see very much of the overall workings of blue tribe so the alignments there might be way lost on me.

Iirc their conversation was preceded by a confessional of Tai saying he liked Cirie. But whether it was intentional or not, even before he admitted the "vibes" were against her, she asked if she was okay and he kinda went uhhh and stared at his feet literally not answering, which is pretty much a giant flashing :siren:

, I don't know how any player would miss it

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 18:00

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I'm also not totally sure "I know I voted you out last time, are we good?" is the best way to make it good. Maybe "It's really nice to see a familiar face here, you'd better believe I'm planning to work closely with you!"

I'm honestly not sure but I do think the latter works better

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 01:41

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

ApplesandOranges posted:

Both Aubry and Michele had a good path to the end, but Michele had a better read of the room. Kind of like how the whole jury figured Hannah was a slam dunk to sit against last season, even though a lot of us saw some good moves she made. Or how the jury didn't see a lot of Wentworth's moves in Cambodia til they actually watched the season.

Some juries will respect big moves, some respect social game. You have to be able to pander to either if you want to be an adaptable winner. You're the one putting them there, after all.

But what we've always heard post-game is that Michele was going to be voted out when Joe got sick. And then she won the last immunity challenge right. So it's not that she had a better "read of the room," it's that because of an immunity and one very lucky break they couldn't get rid of her when they wanted to.

garthoneeye posted:

Honestly, I think the jury just liked Michelle more. It's one of those things that is unsatisfying to strategy minded viewers, but a lot of people when required to give someone a million dollars are just going to go with personal friendliness.

I agree! But I think it's more than just friendliness in this case. If you're Scot and Jason, then it was annoying how Aubry had Tai and Joe in her pocket, and she was their primary opponent and enemy and I really think they just voted along those lines. Then you have people like Cydney who literally was trying to vote Aubry out at F4 but went home, and she had Michele on her side in that vote, so even though it wasn't Aubry's fault, it's very human for Cydney to want the winner to be the person that was there fighting with her when she went out just a couple days earlier.

So sometimes it's just the path the game takes, this situation necessitates this move which necessitates that move which means that this type of juror isn't going to vote for you. And those voters aren't necessarily "wrong" but you didn't necessarily do anything wrong either, other than not having been in a totally different game situation. Other jurors in Scot and Jason or Debbie's position might have stopped and decided well Aubry was the better player and voted Aubry, but sometimes people won't too... what can ya do?

# ¿ Mar 15, 2017 15:57

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Kinda sucks for Caleb, I feel like he went out here not only because of a bad break in the swap but even after that only because people were squeamish about there being too many Kaoh Rong players. Neither of those factors really had to do with him. In a way Tai fighting for Caleb probably hurt as much as it helped, but Tai eventually cutting him should earn Tai some trust from his people. It might be a problem for that tribe btw showing one of their best challenge players the door. Anyway though I guess I'm not really a Caleb fan and he was always just sort of filling a space so at least there's that

Brad Culpepper was weirdly good this episode.

SteveVizsla posted:

I missed the description of this challenge, having a black woman tied to & being led by two white men is a little uh.

this is a super weird thought to have

# ¿ Mar 16, 2017 05:35

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

I don't really think he'll be back. I don't see how he can get 3 appearances without doing anything except almost dying. Even Candice did more to deserve it than that.

All these swapped tribes really do have extreme splits don't they?

# ¿ Mar 16, 2017 15:22

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Fallen One posted:

That does happen sometimes but remember last season ( MvGX) where each of the new three tribes went to tribal council once and each time a member of the majority was voted out?

Pretty sure this is the first time someone from the minority tribe has ever been voted out in a 2 tribes to 3 scenario. Stephen and Jeremy voted out Monica Padilla. PG, Varner, Abi Maria, and Woo voted out PG and Varner. And like you note in MvX Jay and Will voted out Michaela. David and Chris voted out CeCe. And Adam voted out Figgy.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 15:28

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Big Taint posted:

It's weird enough that people say this constantly now for some reason, but to actually type it is bizarre.

My favorite thing like this is that at some point instead of saying "that's true" someone said "this is true," for some reason I don't know, and it was so amazingly cool that it caught on I guess because everyone's still saying it year after year

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 18, 2017

# ¿ Mar 17, 2017 21:24

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Lone Goat posted:

RHAP is actually pretty good??

Kass was great last week, and (non-Live) Know-it-Alls are always good. Most of the non-alumni voice mail guests are pretty good. I like the Wiggle Room too.

"Why [blank] lost the game" and "This week in Survivor history" are pretty terrible though.

It's just this week was two straight dud guests, and Vytas last week sucked too. Sometimes they just have bad people on, but it's less often than not.

Caleb's exit interview was great actually, because he admitted that "someone" not playing this season had told him Tony and Sandra sucked and that "someone" had pressured him to vote out Sandra. He was talking about Russell obviously and it's really funny what a huge baby Russell is. Speaking of huge babies if you listen to "This week in Survivor history" it seems like Rob has a recurring gag where he whines about the quiz whenever he doesn't do well.

I find myself not that often listening to Wiggle Room or Why X Lost because KIA, recap, and voice mails is already so much content. Wiggle Room really has no reason to exist except Rob wanted to do a show with Wigler.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2017 16:05

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Midnightghoul posted:

I didn't consent

Shneak posted:

I don't consent.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 02:24

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Did he really? He told Brad the vote wasn't going to be on him, then went back and told his tribe he told Brad that, so they could vote for Brad. I don't know why he'd want that to happen since Brad is his ally but he seemed transparent about what he'd told Brad and gave them the opening to take Brad out. But then there were like 20 more huddles so I don't know I guess.

100% of the Malcolm votes were disrespect misspelled votes

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 02:29

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

xbilkis posted:

Didn't he tell explicitly tell Brad they were voting for Sierra? And I don't remember him telling his tribe what he said

I think JT assumed the other tribe would be voting for Sandra (or that they didn't have the votes and he was just doing them a solid?) and hosed up on that basis

That JT would assume that makes sense, but I definitely recall him telling his tribe what he told Brad.

preview:

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 02:44

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

mancalamania posted:

Anyway, Malcolm got screwed, but really whoever got voted out tonight would have been screwed. I'm just glad it was Malcolm over Sandra, since if the only two-time winner is only voted out in her third time because of a nonsensical twist then (1) we as viewers all lose, and (2) we as fans will never hear the end of it from Sandra fans who would continue to insist she still has a perfect record technically (I would be one of those fans, by the way).

The twist would have been a lot better if they got to go back to one camp together and strategize there. Malcolm had no realistic opportunity to defend himself (nor did Sandra or Brad or Sierra, who all could have just as easily gone home in that mess). Also, the new rules with respect to tiebreakers meant that, without private time at camp to strategize, it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to vote with the other side. JT or Hali or anyone else that wanted to flip couldn't risk putting their vote on the wrong person and accidentally causing a 5-5-1 tie or something that would go to rocks. If they had time to strategize it's still a bad twist, but at least the outcome would have made more sense: either Sandra's group replaces JT with Hali in their 6-person majority and they successfully vote out Sierra or Brad without JT being able to leak the vote, OR they keep JT in the fold and he still leaks the vote, but only after he is able to ensure that Sandra will be idol'd out and not Malcolm.

I agree with this stuff, I think those are good criticisms of this twist. Definitely not giving them regular camp time together made things very difficult and made Malcolm more "screwed"

Poque posted:

I love that after all the discussion at camp, they still decided to target Sierra, Sandra's suggestion. Queen.

That was brutal and sad and I feel so bad for Malcolm.

JT wanted Tai, and they kind of sort of should have done whatever JT wanted in order to keep his vote, but the issue was they felt Tai could have an idol. Which, well...

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 23, 2017

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 12:54

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

JT was pretty boned already though, he was outnumbered 5-1 in that tribe and was always going to go home as soon as his tribe went to a regular TC. Doing something there was worth a shot. Like yeah everyone is going to hate him on his tribe now but is he really worse off than before? And that's with it failing spectacularly. If Sandra went out he plus Malcolm would be 2/5 and would only need to pull 1 person. He probably should have just had the confidence to outright say he was voting Sandra though, because the play he did make relied on the other tribe having an idol in order for it to be a play at all. Maybe the idol information was just sort of out there?

Speaking of, JT's tribe really hosed up when Hali said she wasn't ready to vote. I mean, she was their one potential ally over on the other tribe. At that moment she very liekly had valuable information, knew her people were going to play the idol for Sierra, and Sandra and Nuku were like shut up Hali let's vote.

Lone Goat posted:

Did they say that there was going to be a live Know it Alls in Toronto in May, or is that event going to be BB Canada related?

There will be two events including a live KIA. The BBCAN event will have more alumni

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Mar 23, 2017

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 15:35

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

ApplesandOranges posted:

Also Aubry has been practically invisible. Michaela hasn't been doing much better, either, but she had some screentime in the first episode. Still doesn't really bode well for them if they've been so downplayed.

Michaela has great blurts, like the scene is about someone or something else but Michaela gets in there by exclaiming like "You're going to have to start over at a new camp!" or "Tribal together?!" or "JT ratted us out"

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 15:52

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Zesty Crab Legs posted:

No? He lost to an idol play and a disloyal ally.

Yeah, I guess when you erase all the noise, it's sort of similar to Savage's exit in Second Chances. Joe leaks the vote and an idol bounces him when he had a majority. The big difference is, I think, it's so much earlier and Savage was always going to go sooner or later while Malcolm still had potential. But there've been other bad beats before.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2017 20:22

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Max posted:

He said as much. He said if they ask him he doesn't know what he would say, but he feels like 3 is his cap.

Hmm, on the RHAP interview that's not quite it... He says he thought this was his last shot ever, that Survivor/CBS kind of do a three tries you're done thing, but that if they invite him back he's more ready than ever.

Also says JT told the other side to vote Sandra and when they wouldn't came back and told everyone to change the target off Sierra but wouldn't say why haha. So like he knew his Sandra play wasn't working, and knew he'd leaked his tribe's target, but didn't want to come clean about it, so it ended up they didn't change the vote.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Mar 24, 2017

# ¿ Mar 24, 2017 02:50

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

So JT was saying they needed to change the target and Hali, their former ally on the other tribe, is saying she doesn't want to vote yet, and they just say gently caress off and plow on ahead? Seems sort of reckless.

I do like Sandra this season. I don't think playing an UTR game was possible for her this season. I mean, how do you stay UTR when you're a two-time winner, you can't. So just go hard, run the alliance, and see how far it gets you. Maybe it works or maybe it doesn't but at least your detractors can't say you never do anything and are boring or whatever. Plus with her cocky behavior she's almost like playing a character, and while a lot of viewers might not like how arrogant she is, in hindsight she'll be a really good villain for however long she lasts. Hopefully she lasts a little while, if she goes out too soon she'll be more forgettable I guess.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 21:25

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

nice meltdown

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:26

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

xbilkis posted:

JT genuinely getting pissed about Michaela eating a spoonful of sugar is almost as crazy as Debbie

Now watch him idol out Michaela instead of Sandra

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:34

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Super Aggro Crag posted:

#FirstOneDown

This Debbie melt down bro holy poo poo.

Oh my god she's still talking about it

Of course Debbie after talking up her gymnastic ability refused to do this balance challenge because she inwardly knew she sucks at it

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 30, 2017

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:36

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

You think anyone will throw a hinkie vote here to defend against JT's idol? They don't know he has one but they know he abandoned them in the ocean to look...

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:43

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Man I really want JT to go out with an idol in his pocket

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:53

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Michaela sipping her coffee hahahahaha

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:54

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Midnightghoul posted:

I love how JT ruins his legacy even more every time he plays this game

This exit is soo embarrassing. Gets his best bud voted out with an ambitious overplay, okay, not good but let's look past that... gets duped by Sandra into a feud with Michaela and then goes home with an idol in his pocket, ouch

Sandra basking in her victory and taking credit for the sugar too haha. I think she's won over a lot of doubters this season.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:57

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

xbilkis posted:

HE DIDN'T BRING THE IDOL

wow

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 01:59

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

HvV Colby sucked extremely and one of the most tired things for me is the superfan apologism he gets where people say he had a great story and arc but got screwed by editing.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2017 15:48

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

STAC Goat posted:

I thought that the entire reason Colby had a fun narrative is because he went from being a Survivor Beast to being a dad with bad knees and he spent that season openly coming to terms with it. Like him sucking is what made it fun.

Yeah he got physically dominated by Coach, he sat there watching TV as Amanda and Danielle fought over a game altering HII, he was trash. A lot of people say "he made it the furthest of any of the Heroes - 5th place, close to the end! - and his relationship with Jerri was one of the best stories of the season." But he made it that deep because he was completely checked out, and he even said in interviews afterward that he wasn't having fun and didn't play hard (because they didn't have as much space to explore).

# ¿ Mar 31, 2017 19:53

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Yeah my bet is that group is tight but they're way outnumbered, at least one of them will be picked off probably before the other original tribe turns on itself, and that person targeted will probably be Sandra if possible.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Apr 3, 2017

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 00:55

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Celery Jello posted:

God, a numerical ranking of 34 seasons seems like after about the first 5 or 6 it's minor differences all the way down. If you narrow it down to Top 5 Essential Seasons, I think it'd be:

1. Borneo (The template to base the rest of them off of)
2. Pearl Islands (It works as a bridge between Old Survivor and New Survivor)
3. Cook Islands (The jumping off point for New Survivor)
4. All-Stars / Heroes vs. Villians (Tie, for opposite reasons - they show the low and high bars for returnee seasons)
5. Millenials vs. Gen X (Recency effect probably comes into play here a bit, but this was evidence of how to cast and execute a quality season, even this late in the game.)

It's Top 6, sue me.

I like this list but I'd adjust it a little bit. I think this is the ideal sampling of each era of Survivor, with lots of the best players and seasons included:

1. s1 Borneo - The early seasons mostly aren't as good but you need one representative of how it began and this is where I'd start. It's pretty iconic.
2. s6 Amazon - Rob C. flipping from side to side is basically the next evolution of the game, building off the Rotu 4 from Marquesas but in a more fun season.
3. s15 China - Probably the best season from the middle years along with PI, but without being weighed down by the Outcast twist. Amanda, James, and Courtney star in
4. s20 Heroes vs Villains - A great example of an All-Star season and the viewers get some Parv and Sandra fun in here. Indisputably amazing season.
5. s28 Cagayan - Introduction of the modern "3 tribes and a swap" format, a wild ride from start to finish that left Russell jealous.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 23:02

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

see I see Thailand as still part of that slower "here's the alliances, see you at the end" early era of the game, and not the best example of it since we already got a Pagonging (and the Pagong tribe!) in the more important Borneo season. Just the concept of Clay being sort of a goat doesn't really rank for me. I could see Marquesas with people doing the unheard of and flipping on the Rotu 4 in there, or PI, but Thailand is a hard sell for me, especially since Brian only won by one vote after someone told Ted that Clay was racist

# ¿ Apr 3, 2017 23:23

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Rob did a random podcast with Reynold for some reason, the guy who's really good at throwing rings and stuff

# ¿ Apr 4, 2017 13:45

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Cochran. Of course

# ¿ Apr 6, 2017 01:19

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Codependent Poster posted:

Ozzy coulda spun that to Verner that that's what they told Tai just to make him feel safe.

In fact Tai should think it's Sandra going home, and it's weird that they got mad at him saying that.

But holy poo poo what was he doing at tribal? I've never seen a bigger case of someone shooting themselves in the foot

# ¿ Apr 6, 2017 02:34

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Sandra was both lucky and unlucky there. Her tribes kept having to vote people out so she was lucky she swapped into a majority in the first swamp and even luckier that Malcolm got voted out in the combined tribal instead of her, but then she went out here not really because of anything she did wrong but because she's scary two-time winner Sandra swapped into a minority.

Oh well, it was a good run.

The only way Sandra can play and not be a big target at this point is to be on a tribe with Tony again plus like Parvati and Boston Rob and Russell.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2017 14:00

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Zesty Crab Legs posted:

Ignoring next week's preview, this is what we're looking at for alliances right now, right? I put Mana on the left and Nuku on the right.

Aubrey and Michaela are loosely tied to Brad. They voted with him a few times each. I have them listed here as free agents for now.

Debbie is also a free agent. I guess she'll join the Ozzy block because she's annoyed with Brad.

I have no idea what Cirie is up to. I guess she's not happy with Ozzy right now?

Varner only seems to have Zeke left, with the setup they showed us this week.

Brad and Troyzan teaming up seems to be the only solid alliance being shown to us right now. I'm feeling pretty good about Brad moving forward.

am I confused? Aubry/Michaela and Varner started in the Russell-Sandra tribe, then went to the Sandra tribe. They've never been with Brad or Zeke before idt

And Brad and Troyzan? I guess that had the mens thing this episode but that's brand new.

Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 6, 2017

# ¿ Apr 6, 2017 20:40

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

ApplesandOranges posted:

I think everyone agrees - whether or not you were rooting for her - that voting out Sandra was the right move. But Zeke's likely motivation for doing so - because Sandra is a big name and not because Sandra is a threat - is reflective of his playstyle. Zeke is a very Ciera-like player (and arguably representative of the newer generation of Survivor players) that wants to make big moves and is itching to 'play'. He's constantly looking for whoever he thinks are threats and will have no hesitations of nixing his closest allies if he deems them to be dangerous.

Is that a valid way to win? Yes - look at Tony. But it's also a playstyle that is very dangerous to do in the spotlight, and you need a good social game to back it up. And that's where I think Zeke's downfall is; he's arrogant and a proponent of big game moves. If I remember right, from pre-game interviews he was very against Michele as a winner. And whether or not you agree with him on that front, I think that's indicative of how he thinks a winner should be winning. He's a big fanboy of schemers like Cirie, but I don't think he's cottoned onto the need for social play like they have. So I think he's a contender for making it far, but my guess is that he's gonna fall into the Aubry trap of not doing social management well.

Or I could be wrong and he goes on to win 10-0-0. But hey, that's the game.

I think one of Zeke's biggest skills is socially bonding with people. Look at he and Chris bonding over football or he and Varner getting chummy this episode. He's very good at making friends with people. He was tight with everyone last season and that's what made him such a target, everyone could see him talking to everyone else and correctly realized Zeke was running the game. His weakness definitely was not lacking excellent social play, it was not being subtle enough with it.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2017 15:20

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# ¿ May 5, 2024 20:41

Fast Luck: Feb 2, 1988

Sarah never went to TC until last week and they've still managed to fit in multiple "Durr I'm gonna be a criminal not a cop" confessionals plus her narration of meeting Sandra and getting Sandra's pitch, plus her little deal with Troyzan she was setting up. I'd expect a deep run from her. Meanwhile Andrea has been on all the same tribes as Sarah and yep, invisible. Maybe she gets idoled out or something.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2017 16:17

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Survivor Season 34 - Changing the game by dipping back into the well

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