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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

If TKIY's friend is gonna keep making him play Age of Sigmar at least there'll be a place for him to talk about it.

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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I'm still smh over what happened to that organ gun crew but what can you do


besides keep the gun hidden behind that hill and play peekaboo i guess

Runa
Feb 13, 2011


S L A M B O
L
A
M
B
O

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

TKIY posted:

Well I'm going to run an actual new book Army and see if that helps. I happen to like the tree dude models anyhow and they will be square based for KoW so I'm not really losing anything but time and brain cells.

I did but the Alarielle model because it's awesome. Counts as Dragon for KoW I figure.

Tune in next episode, where a new army list extends its olive branch to the embattled TKIY. Will he find victory or will his Aelves get Shaelved?

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

*meaningful pause*

Runa
Feb 13, 2011


Of course it's relevant.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Whatever it is, the bloodbloodboi seems very enthusiastic to meet it

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Honestly the sigmarine faces are still the thing that takes the aesthetic down for me. Muscle-molded armor can work as a look with the right helmet but as it stands they, combined with the default color scheme, really do look too much like an army of C3-POs.

That's a really good paint job though. Even if I feel they could stand a headswap.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Sometimes the exaggerated cartoony aesthetic works. I mean, it obviously works, entire gaming IPs have been built on cartoon aesthetics. Like that orc wyvern that looks like it was inspired by a MonHun monster? MonHun is actually cool as hell, good pick art guys. The execution can be lazy as hell though, like some of that CAD posing.

I mean I'll aim for the low hanging fruit jokes as much as anybody else in the death thread and am not a fan of GW in general but tbh, to AoS players, you do you, guys.

Ghost Hand posted:

Yeah I am NOT a fan of the helmets at all. I have some people using bare heads on them - which I actually prefer.

The Errant-Questor did a pretty good job of showing off the bareheaded look so I can see that working out.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I'd be surprised if the sigmarine orders were defined enough to have their own rules at this point, though it seems inevitable given they're basically fantasy SMs.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

You could try eBay, someone might have spare jezzails they wouldn't mind letting go of

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I have nothing bad to say about these dwarves.

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

heres some pretty cool concept art of the new age of slgmar dwarfs











original characters, do not steal!

or these dwarves.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

mango sentinel posted:

The new AoS dwarves look like overdesigned poo poo.

I mean, I figured that's just par for the course.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

He wound up having to post it in the death thread and it became a surprisingly in-depth look into the mechanics for a lot of people that normally just slag off the game.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

By undoing a large number of bullheaded and baffling design decisions, Age of SIgmar went from being a garbage game to merely being a mediocre game, a factor which combined with the strength of GW's brand name and market penetration to turn things around for its popularity in general.

There's nothing AoS does that other minis games didn't already do better before AoS came along. But it doesn't really need to actually be a better game than its competition to be successful.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

dexefiend posted:



Still a long way to go, but it is starting to look like a beetle!

Nice

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

The autowound mechanic is a bit weird in that it basically cuts the middleman out of wound resolution for, what in other games, would be single high-power/armor-piercing attacks. The thing about them is that they effectively become a hard counter to any small but valuable unit, as you may recall is what completely shut down TKIY when he tried playing his legacy dwarves against a Tzeentch list. Rock-paper-scissors is okay when talking about soft counters with more room to play around them, but the core rules of AoS are simple enough that it doesn't provide much of a toolbox for players to deal with things their army isn't built for. Granted, it's a problem for a lot of GW games, but adding an extra level of certainty to how hosed you are by something you're disadvantaged against is galling considering how much time and effort goes into playing and preparing to play. Especially if that autowound mechanic is attached to a ranged attack, like magic, basically creating a bubble of "get hosed" surrounding the casting unit for anything capable of dishing it out.

The rules create a situation where the only real recourse is to just buy more models and drown out the autowound output with bodies, which isn't itself that bad. But it's more suitable for a game explicitly designed for mass combat in the way ranked unit games are. Not the least of which is because it takes significantly less real time to move an entire tray of models than it does to move a mess of models individually. It would be less troublesome if it were exclusively the purview of melee attacks, too, because the "play around them" pill is easier to swallow when the area denial effect doesn't take up quite so much table space.


I've yet to see a cogent defense for random turn order, though. In smaller scale games having rolled initiative, especially individual character initiative for rpgs, adds a tactical layer to play, but in an I Go You Go game with a lot of models being pushed around, I have a hard time seeing the benefits over a set turn order.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

I dislike mortal wounds on an aesthetic level but I see where they fit in the rule design now. I'm also not fond of 40K's all-or-nothing AP system and how hard counters are built into that game, either, but at the very least cutting out the middleman for roll resolution speeds things up a tad.

Pawl posted:

I like random turn order. If you truly detest the concept then you don't have to play with it

That was the most comprehensive case for random turns I've read. When you put it that way, it looks like the difference between MtG's card draw mana and Hearthstone's predictable mana curve. Both have reasons for why they do what they do and in the end it comes down to preference. For what it's worth, I prefer a more predictable gameflow allowing for more focused decisionmaking over playing around the highs and lows of randomness affecting momentum.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

With a few notable exceptions (like Epic and similar-scale games), GW is married to the idea that the individual model is the basic "unit" of the game and that every die rolled represents an individual's contribution to a unit's pool, rather than abstracting things so that the basic unit of the game is a squad (in sci-fi settings) or regiment/troop (for fantasy or lower-tech), with individual models representing the hit points of that unit.

This does mean you need to roll a giant pile of dice to represent a 20-man unit shooting at something, rather than rolling a 2d6 for the entire unit's attack with to-hit and to-damage bonuses based on the broad "size category" of the unit making the attack.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

The tactile experience becomes less of an advantage as the scope of the battle being depicted increases but as Age of Sigmar is supposed to be smaller-scale I can see why that would still be important.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

A Dark Future:

In the year 20XX, Games Workshop releases the True General's Handbook, an Epic-level ruleset for Age of Sigmar that combines unit abstractions and multibasing assumptions allowing players to play 5k+ point games without it taking six hours and involving the rolls of hundreds of dice, and fans around the world laud the mechanical elegance and staggering tactical depth hiding behind the apparent sterility of the simple rules. Proclaimed to be a revival of Warhammer Fantasy Battle for a new age, AoS players declare this to be the one, true way to play Age of Sigmar, and are able to play entire battles in the time it takes for 40k players to play a couple of turns. But in the first printing of the TGHB, a typographical error slipped past GW's editors. Atlas Shrugged always had his suspicions, but when a sidebar example accidentally refers to a Lord-Celestant on a Dracoth as a Basilean High Paladin on a Dragon, he starts reading further only to realize the entire book was a find-and-replace wordswap of the latest Kings of War rulebook. When he attempts to reveal the truth, nobody can verify his assertions because Mantic accidentally shipped all of their KoW rulebook hardcopy orders to a glacier in Greenland.

A Darker Future:

In the year 20XX, Games Workshop releases Age of Sigmar Apocalypse :unsmigghh:

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Who in their right mind would knowingly name things "orruk," "ogor," or "bloodsecrator?"

Exactly. Brand secure.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Yeah, Seraphon.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

mango sentinel posted:

The name changes are likely less about copyrighting and more about marketing want SEO. Also what slowpoke said.

In a vacuum I'd agree with you but GW's tendency to make awful, copyrightable names kicked off after the Chapterhouse lawsuit and shows no signs of letting up. About names more than Brets TBH, as slowpoke is probably right about that.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

or maybe because the bretonnians were the easiest to proxy using cheap historical minis?

poo poo

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Honestly it happened faster than I expected

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

bonds0097 posted:

My wife was teaching at a pepsico facility this week and some manager spotted her drinking from a bottle of water that she got at the airport that apparently was the coke brand of bottled water and it turned into a crazy defcon 1 incident in order to ensure "the brand" was protected.

Stuff like this or the above is stupid beyond belief. How insecure must you feel about your product if you have to create a bubble where your competitors don't exist?

This is the dark timeline.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Pendent posted:

That's all that gave it away for you?

It's like talking about the weather at this point.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

As it turns out, to get fluff worth reading, you have to write it first.

Good on GW for figuring out what to do with the sigmarverse.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

The Old World gave us Total Warhammer and Vermintide so until someone gives enough damns about the sigmarverse to make a kickass videogame in it sigmarverse loses by default.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

S.J. posted:

let's not forget shadow of the horned rat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsar8wpUV84

you know i actually did, my b

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

To be honest if the Vermintide devs were to make something like, say, Vermintide: Welcome the Elemental Plane of Rats (An Age of Sigmar Joint), that would kind of own?

And my use of the phrase "elemental plane" is an admission that I've basically seen the sigmarverse as a lovely knockoff of Planescape.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

You gotta charge more to make your heroes feel special

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

We should all root for the heroic yet tragically misunderstood bondage torture elves.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

It's why I say Dark Elves should just be shoved into their own GA and Call it shadows or darkness.

The warring Grand Alliances of Order, Chaos, Destruction, Death, Shadows, Darkness, BADS, Drivers Who Don't Use Turn Signals, and Lootboxes.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Oh, they're warcraft Nagas.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

JBP posted:

These fish boy models are off the hook.

nice

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

It took a while but I'm glad for everyone that GW figured out where they're going with sigmar.


Also the inclusion of lady and black sigmarines is genuinely cool.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011


the souls of the free people are still chained by the Old World's gravity

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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Those are some stylish sigmarines

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