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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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jabby posted:Ken Loach has written a good article about why blaming the current state of Labour entirely on Corbyn is a ridiculously simplistic view at best. He talks about how neither of the recent candidates were willing to campaign with Momentum or attend their events, and how the PLP as a whole isn't just rebelling against Corbyn but rebelling against his policies. They refuse to talk about them, refuse to campaign on them, and won't even endorse them in interviews. The party is fundamentally paralysed while we have elected representatives who refuse to represent the membership. Everyone should read this because it shows why it's important to elect a Labour leader who has the confidence of their MPs.
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Mar 1, 2017 09:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:Then again it also shows why Labour needs better MPs. That's pretty much what Ken Loach says
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Mar 1, 2017 14:51
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Why don't people want to vote Labour when choosing an MP? Must be the right wing media
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Mar 1, 2017 14:52
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Spangly A posted:you saying it sarcastically doesn't make your point true I may be a dumbass but I really don't think people constantly saying Labour is actually poo poo is going to drive up Labour's vote. I don't mean people here on this forum. But people in the public eye and associated with the Labour leader like Ken Loach or Shami Chakrabarti should say more about the benefits Labour bought in the past instead of just how bad the party was, while acknowledging mistakes too. If you're simply going to say that your MPs are bad and your councillors are bad and what you did last time you were in power was bad then you're asking people to put a huge amount of faith in the idea that the party has transformed into something cool and groovy since Mr Corbyn took over, especially as the MPs and councillors are still there.
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Mar 1, 2017 18:45
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jabby posted:Individually? Nothing. There's an official Labour website where they publish statements they have sent to the press, here: http://press.labour.org.uk/ This announcement isn't on it. McDonnell announced the policy in an interview with the Guardian in which he said "one way of re-establishing some element of openness and transparency would be, why not – over a million, you publish your tax return. Why not?”. And then that was it - no follow up by Labour, nothing to publicise what he's said, just one interview in one newspaper which there's no guarantee the rest of the media will even read. In a perfect world perhaps every political journalist would pick up on it but in practice that's not going to happen, regardless of whether Mr McDonnell is a Tory or Labour politician or on the left or right of the Labour Party. Here's what I think Labour could do: Decide what the message is. Eg the rich are not paying their fair share of taxes and the Tories are never going to do anything about it - because they're just in politics to represent the rich - but Labour will. Decide three key policies for achieving this, such as making people on very high incomes publish tax returns. Tell the Guardian the Shadow Chancellor is making a major speech but he'll give them a sneak preview in an exclusive interview. Do the interview. Press release the interview Do the speech Press release the speech Raise it an PMQs Press release what Corbyn said at PMQs Contact the broadcasters and say you want Labour's Shadow Cabinet members to go on their show and talk about this important policy announcement. Thornberry for Marr, Abbott for Newsnight, Cat Smith for Peston. McDonnell for Good Morning Britain (I think he could come across as fairly likeable to a general audience?) In future, make sure you include the message in other campaigns. Eg, on the NHS crisis, point out that the NHS needs funding but that means everyone paying their fair share of taxes, low paid and high paid, but only Labour has a plan to make sure the high paid do their fair share. Say it again and again and again. Now it's possible this would fail because the right wing media hate socialism, but Labour should at least try. E: Mirror have done it too - maybe it is getting some coverage http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-reveals-radical-plan-force-9946856
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Mar 2, 2017 10:41
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JFairfax posted:To be fair in NORN Cannabis is probably all solids that are 50% diesel and 50% plastic so maybe not safer than alcohol Does good old-fashioned cannabis resin exist any more? I thought it was something from my youth long since vanished, like decent new Stone Roses music
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Mar 2, 2017 12:26
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Jippa posted:Do you remember "black squidgy" and "red seal" (which had that pakistani logo thing on it). I never saw the logo, but yes. And "Lebanese black"
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Mar 2, 2017 12:36
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I take the point about going on and on about Labour but in the spirit of owning up when you get it wrong, it turns out McDonnell has in fact given a major speech today setting out a lot of interesting policies in some detail!
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Mar 2, 2017 13:16
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So who's lesson the Shinners in Northern Ireland now that McGuiness has gone? Gerry Adams is basically now focusing on politics in Ireland, as in Republic of Ireland, is that right? E: leading, not lessons Paxman fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 00:12
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Zalakwe posted:How many local campaigns have you been involved in? I have been involved in a lot and trust me when I say people will be picking GE targets using local by-election data and they are right to. Ever a cursory look at what's happens since Christmas shows a pattern This is the thing, Labour made a net gain of seats in England at the last election (lost some of course but gained more) and lost loads in Scotland but to the SNP, not the Tories. The Tories went from largest party in a coalition to a majority government because of the collapse of the Lib Dems (27 seats went from Lib Dem to Tory). So the glorious #libdemfightback is a potential problem for the Tories and might even be good for Corbyn.
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Mar 3, 2017 14:29
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Not sure exactly what this means or how to read it but it seems to suggest support for the unionist parties is just a hair's breadth higher than support for the parties that want Irish unification? https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/837746796436811777 (Assuming I'm right to think the Alliance are more or less neutral)
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Mar 3, 2017 20:52
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I'm in London and old enough to remember the IRA setting off bombs here but can't help lining Gerry Adams on Twitter. He's a loveable and dotty old guy who's learnt to use the internet and loves it.
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Mar 3, 2017 23:13
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Skinty McEdger posted:May's argument that she couldn't possibly allow the commons or Lords a veto on the terms of Brexit, because this may give the EU incentive to give the UK a bad deal, begs the question: then what the gently caress will the vote she promised at the end of the negotiations actually gong to be about? A choice between a) accepting whatever she's managed to agree or b) just leaving without whatever she's agreed, ie WTO rules which aren't really in anyone's interests . So really no choice at all, because any MP who refuses to vote for the deal in this context would look like a prat. She's trying to avoid giving Parliament any real choices, eg "keep on negotiating and don't leave until we get a better deal" or "hold a referendum on the deal"
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Mar 6, 2017 19:38
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It was the coat of a packet of fags hitting £7 that caused me to give up and I feel a bit less unhealthy nowadays.
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Mar 7, 2017 00:06
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JFairfax posted:I think women should not allow themselves to get raped I don't think accusing Jeremy Corbyn of being bad at leading a political party is comparable.
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Mar 7, 2017 11:01
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Pissflaps posted:Can the parliament act be used to defeat amendments ? Why would an election help? The Commons can overturn the amendment, and then it would go back to the Lords and they could add it in again (hence ping pong). But it seems unlikely the Lords will keep pushing it if the Commons deletes the amendment (according to what I heard on the telly). Generally, the Lords are pretty big on the idea that they have a right to ask MPs to think again but they accept the Commons is boss. The issue is whether the fact that the Lords has done this encourages Tory rebels in the Commons to come out of the woodwork and join Labour MPs in voting to keep the amendment. My money's on no.
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Mar 7, 2017 20:13
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jabby posted:Unfortunately we don't live in the universe where the PLP backed Corbyn from the start so speculation of how he would have done if they did is just that: speculation. I agree in as much as any party leader needs the support of their actual MPs to succeed. Electing one who doesn't and then imagining what might have happened if the MPs were different is pointless. E: Series 33 sees companions Amy and Rory replaced by Clara Paxman fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Mar 7, 2017 |
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Mar 7, 2017 20:28
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Namtab posted:While it's hyperkinetic animation style is good, it's absolutely not something for new entries to the medium for many reasons, 4 second butt slapping being among them. If you're going to rec a gainax/trigger work then I can think of at least three that are more suitable for people who don't watch many anims. I like Ghost in the Shell (Standalone and Arise and even Innocence) and Ergo Proxy, but not schoolgirls, rape or people who turn into monsters for no apparent reason. What do I watch?
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Mar 8, 2017 00:53
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The press have largely decided that the NI change is bad and the Budget is bad.
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Mar 8, 2017 20:57
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Daily Mail says no https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/839540530983895040
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Mar 8, 2017 21:07
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Jeza posted:My point is broadly that these jobs are ideally suited for young people and people looking for first jobs, but companies have basically just shut that avenue down entirely because they can just hire people from other countries where the poverty wage they offer is actually good money back home. I don't think you need to be desperate to work in a place like Pret, all you need is to live nearby and want some work experience and extra cash and don't have a lot of skills to leverage. Playing devil's advocate a little but as long as we do have free movement, what are the companies expected to do? I mean, we seem to be talking about a situation where some applications come from people who are enthusiastic and plan to stay for a long time, and others come from people who aren't that bothered beyond wanting some extra income and will quit as soon as they can. If that is indeed what's happening (I'm just basing that on what others have said here, if I understood properly) then who should the firm hire? Who would you hire if you were the manager? Presumably we dont want employers to discriminate against people on the basis of nationality.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:30
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Breath Ray posted:Enthusiastic..or desperate? We'll let's assume they seem enthusiastic from the point of view of the store manager of Bromley's branch of Costa, who isn't responsible for Poland being a relatively poor country after all.
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Mar 8, 2017 22:37
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Private Speech posted:Also devil's advocate, but uhh, I don't know how to tell you, but we most definitely already legally do. As does every single other country on the planet in fact, as far as I am aware. Now nationality at birth on the other hand ... Yeah we do if we're talking in general terms, eg its a lot harder for an Indian to work here than a French person, but i think the posts i responded to were talking specifically about people who have a legal right to live and work in this country by virtue of being EU citizens. Should a firm discriminate against a Polish job applicant in favour of a British applicant on the basis of nationality? That would be both illegal and wrong I think?
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Mar 8, 2017 22:43
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Sometimes it makes sense for the opposition to get out of the way for a few hours and just let the media get on with it. At the moment the press are clobbering the Government.I'm watching Newsnight focusing on the row now.
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Mar 8, 2017 23:44
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Seaside Loafer posted:Who is Kiera and who is she in love with? Yes I ninja-edited, sorry. Saw that Pissflaps posted similar pics just above.
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Mar 9, 2017 00:07
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George Galloway blocked me on Twitter.
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Mar 10, 2017 16:04
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Corbyn was asked specifically how enthusiastic he was about staying in the EU, not whether the EU was perfect. "Seven and a half" out of ten was a dumb answer to that question. You can say "the EU has faults but I definitely think we should stay in because on balance we're better off in". You don't have to pretend its perfect. But if there's a vote taking place and you're campaigning for one side to win and you say you want people to vote for your side "seven and a half out of ten" then you're a bad campaigner. The anger that followed wasn't because people felt the referendum result was all his fault, it was because people felt he'd done a lousy job. Labour's policy was 100 per cent to stay in the EU and then try to reform it, not 75 per cen to do that.
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Mar 10, 2017 22:59
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Which is a load of crap because Labour - at ~66% - delivered as strong a remain vote as the SNP (and the Lib Dems only achieved like 75% despite their 2015 vote clearly being a hardcore rump) whereas Cameron and the Tories only managed half that despite being the government telling their people what's good for them. Those numbers don't contradict anything I said though (I said Corbyn was a lousy campaigner in the referendum, not that Labour voters are anti-EU)
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Mar 10, 2017 23:29
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Sometimes I read Europol and then I feel less unhappy about Brexit.
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Mar 10, 2017 23:30
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Wheat Loaf posted:Unionist, but not dead set against a united Ireland in the near or distant future on principle. What is Unionist as a political leaning, other than generally wanting Northern Ireland to remain in the UK? Is there a Unionist view on whether an economic system based on people selling their labour is a good thing, or whether healthcare should be provided by the state?
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Mar 10, 2017 23:38
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Because even strong Labour seats still have Tory and UKIP voters who probably constituted the bulk of the leave vote? Labour voters backing remain doesnt somehow prove Corbyn was a good campaigner. We have no way of knowing how much any individual politician's performance affected the vote. Labour voters probably largely backed EU membership even before the campaign began, and if their views did change then we have no way of knowong if that was down to Corbyn or any of the other people they heard from. But we know Corbyn did a poor job of a campaigning because he went on the telly and said he was 7 out of ten in favour of the position he was supposedly campaigning for.
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Mar 11, 2017 00:01
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Lord of the Llamas posted:This is as valid as saying politician X alienated swing voters by saying they were 10/10 for the EU because it showed they obviously didn't take their concerns about the EU seriously. No, making up foolish arguments nobody has actually said doesn't somehow invalidate an argument that's actually been made. Corbyn was not asked whether the EU was perfect, he was asked how much he wanted to remain in it. 7.5/10 is not a good answer to that. A good answer would be "the EU has many faults and I take people's concerns seriously but i believe the best result for the UK in this referendum would be to stay in". Not "7.5 out of 10" for staying in. Look at it this way. I think just about everyone in this thread now has some.doubts about Mr Corbyn. Supposing during a general election campaign Chukka Umunna knocked on your door and you said "how enthusiastic are you about getting a Labour government" and he said "7.5 out of ten", would it cross your mind to think that was a good bit of campaigning? You can admit something isn't perfect when still making a case that it's definitely the best of the options on the ballot paper.
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Mar 11, 2017 11:46
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I saw a Daily Mail today and its page after page about how poo poo the Government is. Apparently the Tories have introduced some sort of death tax, Justine Greening is bad for cutting school fundng and big businesses are being allowed to get away with not paying their taxes. Plus, a big Peter Oborne column on how Theresa May must disown George Osborne for being agreedy bastard.
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Mar 11, 2017 14:12
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Voting on the Brexit Bill could all be over tomorrow, apparently. First, the Commons votes on whether to throw out the Lords amendments (which say i) Parliament must have a meaningful vote on the terms of exit and ii) let EU migrants stay). If the Commons rejects the amendments then they go back to Lords, which probably won't keep on pushing for them, on the grounds that the Commons is boss. The only way the amendments will be accepted by the Commons is if a significant number of Tories decide to disobey instructions and vote to keep them. Royal Assent is expected Tuesday (or maybe even tomorrow?) so Brexit becomes real very soon. Assuming the Lords doesn't decide to get in to a standoff with the Commons, at least. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are taking part in a Momentum demo outside Parliament tomorrow to demand that the Commons approves the amendments. https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/840906284694134785 A lot of today's newspapers BTW had stories about how the Government is very bad. https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/840680371259867136 https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/840678157694976001 https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/840672708966940672 I also enjoyed Heseltine on Peston explaining that Boris, on the show ten minutes previously, had been talking rubbish.
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Mar 12, 2017 22:35
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OwlFancier posted:So does he have to run inside to actually vote for them in between picketing? I guess he might do. Its just over the road though!
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Mar 12, 2017 23:02
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PA have published fuller details about what Jeremy Corbyn said about a second Scottish referendum, including the question he was asked. I suspect this isn't actually a case of him going against Labour policy, but an example of him failing to express himself well when asked a question. With hindsight, perhaps he could have said "I don't think there should be a second referendum because I think it is in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom's interests to stay part of the UK, although I accept that the Scottish Parliament rather than Westminster should decide whether a second referendum is held". However, he didn't say that. Asked whether a second referendum is "inevitable" (not the same thing as whether you support it to be fair) he gave an answer which simply talked about it being "fine" but didn't mention at any point that he would prefer it didn't happen. It's a lot easier for me to write a clear sentence at my keyboard with no pressure on me than it is for him to give an answer in an interview. However, that's a party leader has to do, even though it's hard. I think there's a tendency for some of Mr Corbyn's supporters to imagine that he's going around making clear statements of policy which the media then ignore or twist. Alternatively, maybe his statements are "nuanced" and the media and voters can't handle nuance. In fact, his statements are largely incomprehensible. Based on the answer he gave, it's not really clear whether he thinks a referendum is inevitable, or a good thing. While I accept that he actually opposes a referendum, I tihink a fair-minded person looking at the answer he gave and trying to work out what he thinks could easily conclude that on balance, as far as it's possible to tell, it sounds based on that answer like he supports one.
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Mar 13, 2017 11:09
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I think it might have helped if he'd mentioned "I hope there isn't" somewhere
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Mar 13, 2017 11:19
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JFairfax posted:Jeremy Corbyn This makes sense but he didn't explain it like this yesterday. I don't think his position has changed, I think he's not great at doing interviews.
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Mar 13, 2017 14:22
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TinTower posted:The idea that the Tories were presuming a continuation of the Coalition doesn't match up with their well-documented decapitation campaign against the Lib Dems. They did pursue a decapitation strategy but also seemed surprised it actually worked. It seems silly now but in the run up to 2015 everyone thought Labour and the Tories would be neck and neck at the election, leading to another hung Parliament. Though I also think Cameron expected to just be able to hold and win a referendum on the grounds that he's David loving Cameron and obviously everyone would vote how he told them
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Mar 14, 2017 00:31
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Oh dear me posted:I'd rather we stopped talking as though we had a presidential system. May was elected as MP by her constituents and as party leader by her party, just like every other PM. She was not Tory party leader at the last general election, but she was in a position of considerable power. Nothing about this is not the voters' fault. Yeah, you become Prime Minister by being leader of the largest faction in the Commons. You don't get a personal mandate, beyond the one to represent your constituency.
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Mar 14, 2017 10:28
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