UKMT March 2017 - Blame it on the Bourgie - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT March 2017 - Blame it on the Bourgie

Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed.
Jeremy Corbyn	95	18.63%
Dennis Skinner	53	10.39%
Angus Robertson	20	3.92%
Tim Farron	9	1.76%
Paul Ukips	7	1.37%
Robot Lenin	105	20.59%
Tony Blair	28	5.49%
Pissflaps	193	37.84%
Total:	510 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Step one for Labour success: get the voting age down to 16

Step two for Labour success: use its otherwise toxic wealth to offer young'uns a tenner to vote for them if they snapchat them their ballot paper

Step three: rule over our sceptred isles, increase corporation tax 1% and use the extra take to do it again next time.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 11:40

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 01:58

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Lunar Suite posted:

http://news.sky.com/story/eu-may-demand-83642bn-from-uk-after-customs-fraud-investigation-10794571

I look forward to the Mail pissing and moaning about this.

I would assume a "suck ya mum" counterpoint.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 12:21

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Guavanaut posted:

I wonder how much of that is deliberate large scale business fraud and how much is the cumulative effect of 3/4 of Chinese eBay/AliExpress/DX sellers valuing everything at $5.

"Who cares, give us our 2 billion euros"

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 12:42

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Lord of the Llamas posted:

A moments thought and you might've remembered that 2015 was a General Election year and the membership didn't surge until more than halfway through the year.

The 'Standard Rate' for membership is �48 (�4/month) so 500k members would mean about �24m, so more than they managed to raise in donations even for a General Election.

How much do students pay

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 15:02

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Manic_Misanthrope posted:

Massive proposed cut to Capital Gains tax as well. Great for people with more than one house, utter arse for people with 0

*in incredibly specious tory voice* actually that means houses will be cheaper so it helps you a lot

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 20:32

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Paxman posted:

The press have largely decided that the NI change is bad and the Budget is bad.

They're right.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 21:22

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Seaside Loafer posted:

Its bollocks NI innit, I fail to understand why it just cant be ditched entirely. I suppose people just like seeing it in their wage slips or something and think 'ooh i just paid into me pension'

It's tied into entitlement for non-savings dependent JSA and so on but yes I agree it is basically a waste of time. Scary number to stick on taxes if you're ditching NI but want to retain the income, though.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 21:24

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Chuck it on Corporation Tax instead. If the Tories are all for small business this is an absolute no-brainer - saves a shitload of paperwork, and means taxes are only paid on profits not on headcount. It would be the biggest boost to small businesses and sole traders since the 80s, Of course that would then require them to actually enforce Corporation Tax on ~~their largest donors~~ the largest and most dynamic job-creators so welp.

Yeah again though it isn't the policy that's the problem, it's the issue of whether you want to be the Labour leader who says corporation tax is going up by 12% as soon as they get into power? Media will spin it into "BUSINESS TAXES ARE GOING UP 60%" which makes it seem like it threatens small businesses even if it doesn't and so on.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 21:43

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Aye there's no trained talent in lincolnshire or suffolk lmao

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 21:45

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

oh my loving god jeremy nobody cares about this stuff, please reclaim the mantle of being the party of the NHS from these cunts

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 21:56

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

The last thing Labour needs right now is to have this thing spun into "Labour is so fervently against this government that they want to deny people with learning difficulties money - how low can their fanaticism stoop???".

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 22:01

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

This is nonsense. The Tories are looking out for their own at the expense of everyone else, and your response is we better drop it because no-one cares and it might get spun badly. Especially if you're going to say Labour need to talk about the NHS instead, something they have been banging on about relentlessly for weeks both at PMQs and every other opportunity.

Yeah and making no traction because they're diluting the message with "oh no the tories spent too much on hotels 2 years ago" or "we're against austerity except in this specific circumstance in Surrey where we're going to make a big deal of the government trying to find money to spend on local government with links to its MPs which at no point happened in the Blair/Brown years".

# ¿ Mar 8, 2017 22:08

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

It isn't talked about much but in return for being passed over in favour of Alec Douglas-Home for party leadership in '63, Rab Butler got to set the official tory haircut, Kim-style.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:08

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Comrade Cheggorsky posted:

i wonder how Big Tone and Gordon would have responded to the budget?

At All.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:09

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Pissflaps posted:

'It's complacent and unfair!!' -the vote winning slogan of 2017.

That and "We won't help you out if you vote for us. That would be immoral."

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:45

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

Bizarre. The only difference between how the Commons and the Lords voted on Brexit is the number of seats each party holds.

Has the 3 line whip already faded into memory for you lol

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:46

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

You can always do better than "it's unfair".

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:49

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Namtab posted:

I call a spade a spade

Adults' ears shut down when you call something "unfair".

You don't see the papers calling it "unfair" like narked teenagers. They address the specific points. A manifesto pledge has been broken and millions of self employed people are getting hosed.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:55

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Namtab posted:

Also when the budget came out and was being talked about I doubt corbs had the Tory manifesto to hand

They get sent it in advance!

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 00:59

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

Labour get sent the budget in advance? I'm not sure that's correct.

They get sent an outline, which is why Corbyn reads and edits a speech rather than having to do the whole thing in one go.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:05

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

I'll bite. What do you think the media should be saying about the budget that would benefit Labour more, and what should Corbyn say to make them do that?

It's not about what the media is saying it's about what Labour is or isn't saying and how it's saying or not saying it.

The Tories rightly getting eviscerated by the press for shafting working class tories like Most Builders does not make people wish that John Ashworth MP was health sec, it just puts the conservatives on the back foot, for one morning.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:13

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

Unless you're advocating for Corbyn going out knocking on doors, any message Labour puts out has got to be picked up and reported by the media. So what do you want them to be saying that would be better than what they're currently saying?

"This government has seen more paperwork, and now higher taxes for people running small businesses. Unacceptable. Labour will not add to your burdens if we are the next government."

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:20

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Namtab posted:

That doesn't roll off the tongue in quite the same way

I'm sure they can finesse it a bit, but it's better than "bluh it's unfair" yeah okay mate or "what about this thing where the Tories do favours for people who vote for them, instead we should treat everyone exactly equally PS vote for us despite this"

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:24

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

Corbyn basically said that. I've seen RLB and John McDonnell on the news saying that.

Since they have literally no policies atm until some kind of democratic policy bollocks is finished (and I don't think your kokoro wisher voting members are wanting less regulation of the ~petit bourgeoisie~) that seems like a stretch.

quote:

You can argue they should go harder on it RIGHT THIS SECOND, but I would say that at this point Labour's opinion is less important than getting the message out there that this policy is bad. If you replaced all of tomorrow's headlines with a big picture of Corbyn and the caption 'Corbyn says this is bad!' it would only hurt your case since people expect him to say that. Let people hate this policy first, then prolong the media attention and keep the focus on it by saying what you would do instead.

When the opposition is so ineffectual and despised that it has to leave the media to do its job (and they will pick up on this and back off next time), why would anyone vote for them?

Namtab posted:

The whole point of socialism is that people get treated equally

No that's Baby's First Socialism which doesn't take into account people's differing needs and abilities. The kind of the TPA believe in whenever they call for a flat tax.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:36

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

jabby posted:

https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/839479658127183872

OK. How's about new regs, which are probably more important. Will there be new taxes on the self employed if they win at the next election?

quote:

It's not a question of 'having to' do anything. The best you could come up with to add to the current media furore is a footnote basically saying 'P.S. Labour wouldn't do this'. Don't you think there's mileage in prolonging the negative coverage instead?

The media decides how long it prolongs negative coverage, not Labour.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:42

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

what I'm saying is don't be complacent

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 01:47

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

WMain00 posted:

The FTSE went into utter freefall this morning, anyone know why?

Market absurdity.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 13:43

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/839798710972395520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

lmao

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 13:47

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

The Omnishambolic Raid would be a great title for a book on the landings at Dieppe.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 15:06

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

peanut- posted:

Michael Gove's column in The Times today is really quite something

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/mrs-may-is-our-first-catholic-prime-minister-zmbgdqjz3

lmao

Someone call Pope Frankie Boy and get a Govite crusade in the works, might help out a church dogged by persistent "you hosed/starved the kids" allegations.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 12:35

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

It's good that someone sent him Max Weber's book from slightly over 100 years ago to keep him updated with slightly more contemporary threats to our country + liberty than marxism though lol

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 12:37

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Entropy238 posted:

Is there a UKMT thread consensus on George Galloway? Good man or bad man?

He's a dickhead

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 12:42

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Guavanaut posted:

If only we could have the economic liberalism and the social authoritarianism, just like the early Prods, thinks Gove

*this guy shakes his fist while critically examining both the illiberalism of protestant land/asset seizures and attempts at a more egalitarian society by the female Protestants such as Katarina Zell whose writing on religion in and of itself was revolutionary and is still truly unwelcome in the catholic-influenced faiths including the CofE to some extent*

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 12:59

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Mhairi Black saying 'you talk shite hen' but instead of hen it's mate, the mate in question is Max Weber, and instead of Mhairi Black it's C. V. Wedgwood.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 13:07

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Seaside Loafer posted:

And why is Michael Gove writing newspaper columns about absolute bollocks, shouldn't he be a bit busy being an MP? You know, public servant and all that.

He's doing a public service by reminding us what a failure he and his ideas are.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 13:29

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Breath Ray posted:

I like him. He is a lovely bloke when you get to know him and a drat good MP in a tough ward.

He is a carbetbagging chancer hope that helps

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 14:20

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Guavanaut posted:

But Iran is #2 in the world for gender reassignment therapy. Why do you hate the Islamic Republic George? Why do you make Ali Khamenei cry so?

He still thinks the Ayatollah is (famous Scottish tory) Sean Connery just in robes.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 15:12

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

It would only be ethical.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 15:14

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Lord of the Llamas posted:

Which is a load of crap because Labour - at ~66% - delivered as strong a remain vote as the SNP (and the Lib Dems only achieved like 75% despite their 2015 vote clearly being a hardcore rump) whereas Cameron and the Tories only managed half that despite being the government telling their people what's good for them.

Which is to say this: 2015 Labour voters constituted the largest number of remain voters so anyone who thinks Labour lost the referendum can gently caress right off.

If that's the case why did so many Labour constituencies vote to Leave?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2017 23:23

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 01:58

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Niric posted:

Over it ScotPol I did some basic wiki sourced number crunching for Stoke and Copeland since 1983, and the resulting trends are really worrying for anyone who isn't right wing.

It's very basic and simplistic, and obviously not at all rigorous, since I just divided votes into "poo poo" (Tory, any flavour of right wing nationalism, Leave), "not poo poo" (Labour, Libs/SDP, various small left wing parties, Remain) and independents (who I know nothing about). Given UKMT's leanings i imagine the inclusion of libs/sdp amongst the not shits might set some teeth gnashing, but we're talking relative terms here, so hopefully the broader point is clear enough. As simplistic as it is,I found that it gave a pretty good overview of voting patterns, and suggests to me that the problem is far deeper than Corbyn or Brexit or even the Labour party as a whole (which is not to say these things aren't problematic), and potentially leads to some rather troubling conclusions about the voting trends of much of the Labour heartlands.

You can see the clear effects of a Blair bounce from 1992 to 1997, but it's notable that by Blair's last election in 2005 the "not poo poo" vote share (which, remember, includes the Lib Dems) is back to the same levels as 1983. The most striking and alarming thing, at least to me, is the way the "not poo poo" vote plummets between 2005 and 2015, dropping below 50% and far below anything seen in the pre-blair 80s. There's obviously a myriad of causes, but the poo poo general election vote rising by near 20% in Copeland and 30% (!) in stoke is drat near horrifying to me

Copeland: (note, occasionally these don't add up to 100% due to, I assume, the source figures all being rounded to one decimal place)
Date: 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015, EUref, 2017
poo poo: 39.9%, 43%, 43.4%, 32.6%, 37.5%, 35.9%, 42.8%, 51.3%, 62%, 50.8%
Not poo poo: 60.1%, 57%, 56.6%, 67.2%, 62.5%, 62%, 57.1%, 48.8%, 38%, 46.2%
Independents 2.2% (2005) 3% (2017)

Stoke Central:
Date: 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010, 2015, EUref, 2017
poo poo: 29.4%, 31%, 27.9%, 20.9%, 18.8%, 28.4%, 33%, 45.2%, 69.4%, 50.1%

Not poo poo: 70.7%, 68.9% 72%, 79%, 75.4%, 71.7%, 60.9%, 47.9%, 30.6%, 48.9%

Independents: 5.9% (2001), 6% (2010), 6.9% (2015), 0.9% (2017)

I've run the numbers and it turns out the LDs were poo poo 2010 onwards and possibly secretly before that, too.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2017 11:22

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