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Poll: Who Should Be Leader of HM Most Loyal Opposition? This poll is closed. |
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| Jeremy Corbyn |
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95 | 18.63% |
| Dennis Skinner |
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53 | 10.39% |
| Angus Robertson |
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20 | 3.92% |
| Tim Farron |
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9 | 1.76% |
| Paul Ukips |
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7 | 1.37% |
| Robot Lenin |
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105 | 20.59% |
| Tony Blair |
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28 | 5.49% |
| Pissflaps |
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193 | 37.84% |
| Total: | 510 votes | ||
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The odd dichotomy is that while I would probably appreciate it more at the moment if Corbyn was more aggressive I would probably want him to win less if he was.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:35
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forkboy84 posted:Me too. But he's not going to be in charge of the country, and I'd rather almost any Labour MP in charge of the country before Theresa May. Hmm, I'd not want one that isn't committed to actually reversing their social policies, because I think without that we'll end up in this same position again a little further down the road. While a win on a less committed platform might bring some immediate reprieve, I don't plan on dying quite soon enough that I could actually sleep easy for very long without a Labour that can build up some proper institutions to make our lives better.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:49
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As shite as they are if you can vote for either libs or tories I would say libs are marginally better.
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Mar 31, 2017 20:07
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I don't think you can actually quit the party, you just stop paying and they'll wipe you off the books eventually.
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Mar 31, 2017 20:09
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TACD posted:I dunno, Corbyn owns bones whenever he actually spits fire in a speech. That version of Corbyn is the one we need all the time. He can give good rhetoric but having had ample experience with the Tories and their "Do stuff and don't much think about it" approach, Corbyn's "Have a think about it and decide later what to do" approach is something I very much appreciate. The country won't implode if the government doesn't decide to do things for a little while, regardless of whether or not stupid people feel comforted by the image of Theresa May doing this: 
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Mar 31, 2017 20:12
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I don't think Corbyn is really looking for compromise with the Tories, I think he just isn't an angry shouty reactionary bellend, which, well, is exactly what I want in a ruler, just not very conducive to becoming one.
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Mar 31, 2017 20:21
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jabby posted:Corbyn actually understands this about the Tories, he just isn't good at getting it across. You only have to look at his refusal to campaign with them on Brexit, or the awkward silences whenever he was forced to actually interact with David Cameron. He hates them because he knows what they represent. Miliband on the other hand had no problem having a laugh with Pigfucker because he considered politics a game. I think this also, one thing I haven't ever gotten from Corbyn is that he wants to compromise with the Tories.
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Mar 31, 2017 20:32
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forkboy84 posted:I think replacing Jeremy Corbyn with a leader who is less loathed by the electorate, the media, the PLP & almost everyone outside the Labour Party membership is the only way incrementalism works. Coz it works by being in power, and dragging the country left, kicking & screaming if need be. And only the most delusional loon thinks that Jeremy Corbyn will ever be Prime Minister of a country bigger than Islington. If you don't want Labour to be a party of government, then you have to ask yourself what you think the point of the Labour Party is. Is it just a protest vote party? Are you just giving up on winning general elections? What's the end goal of keeping Corbyn in place? The issue is that dragging the country kicking and screaming to the left is a substantial part of why Corbyn is so disliked by much of the establishment. So someone who isn't disliked would be someone who isn' threatening to upset the status quo.
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Mar 31, 2017 20:47
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forkboy84 posted:If he was popular with normal people, this'd not be a problem. But he's not. So... I think that possibly might be influenced by the fact that every part of the establishment from before he even became leader has been spending a lot of time and effort to tell everybody that he's bad. So, again it kind of comes up against the problem of "has to be popular to move us left, can't be left if wants to be popular" I don't really think there's much to dislike about him, personally.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:00
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If you're arguing that parliamentary democracy is bad because it's unlikely to give us what we want, and then arguing that we need to overthrow it as a result, because that's... more likely to give us what we want? I'm not sure I follow. Like I think one of the few things less likely than Corbyn winning a general election is a socialist revolution in the UK in 2020. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 21:20
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TomViolence posted:In the short term you don't need to overthrow poo poo, extraparliamentary politics is about building movements, networks and organisations parallel to the parliamentary system. You don't need to think in terms of parliamentary politics or violent revolution with no points in between, if people thought like that organised labour in this country wouldn't have existed in the first place for a political party to emerge from. But that hardly seems in conflict with pursuing parliamentary routes as well? And would, in fact, seem highly synergistic with parliamentary success?
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Mar 31, 2017 21:32
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Eh, I don't think having enough of a popular movement to seize the leadership of the Labour party is really a bad thing? Yes it needs more but surely that is a good start rather than a bad thing?
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Mar 31, 2017 21:39
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Miftan posted:Yes, but if all it does is seize the Labour leadership than it has failed as a movement. It needs to be out there providing aid to working class people and making their lives better. Also, if you do that, they might vote for you and you can change the laws to better reflect a socialist society. The making lives better is the point, not the getting elected. Isn't Momentum trying for that? I would also like it to be a Labour position, frankly.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:42
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Pissflaps posted:You might be prepared to endure it but what about the millions of ordinary people who didn't ask to endure your little experiment and need a Labour government? They can join and vote in the leadership too if they want?
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Mar 31, 2017 21:47
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Pissflaps posted:You're serious aren't you. loving hell. I don't find "don't participate in democracy because the people who don't want to participate in it might have wanted to hypothetically vote contrary to you" very convincing. If you want to vote for something, vote for it. If you don't vote for it in a voting system where every vote counts then... well sorry, your non-vote doesn't get taken into account?
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Mar 31, 2017 21:51
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I mean £24 a year is money I could spend on an extra few takeaways but I'm not sure I would necessarily call it a spending war.
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Mar 31, 2017 21:54
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Paul.Power posted:Raising the registered supporter price from £3 to £25 probably was a bad move, yeah. I think they could maybe do with a £12 rate, for membership. I'm sure they used to have one.
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Mar 31, 2017 22:04
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Miftan posted:You're ignoring my rad CCCP joke though. I appreciated your CCCP joke.
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Mar 31, 2017 22:32
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Students do have to work sometimes, pissflaps. Workers should be unionized.
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Mar 31, 2017 23:06
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Pissflaps is an Old so university was probably free or something back when he was a whippersnapper.
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Mar 31, 2017 23:40
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I'm a rebel. Actually I feel like there is some sort of socialist critique to be made of the fact that Guavanaut invariably does the labour of making a new OP and all we do is shitpost.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:02
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Pissflaps posted:This doesn't ring true. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/timeseries/ycdj/lms ONS lists just under 1.1 million students or schoolgoers in work. http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/facts-and-stats/Pages/higher-education-data.aspx Universities UK lists 2.28 million students total. I assume that employment is probably weighted more towards undergrads/postgrads than 6th form college students but I can't find stats because it's rather hard to google stats for student employment without getting graduate rates. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 1, 2017 |
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Apr 1, 2017 00:29
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Namtab posted:These figures don't seem to include part time students working full time, which would also be working students You are correct, not sure if ONS has that data, didn't show up when I searched.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:32
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Interesting the number of students in employment seems to have peaked around 2006 so it's possible that workers would have been in the majority then. Don't have HE rates for 2006 though.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:38
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