|
If that bill fails due to defections though, there's no redo, right?
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2017 03:39
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
Forceholy posted:Marie Antoinette was born into privilege. Paul grew up poor and forgot what it's like living on Medicare and Food Stamps. I keep telling you people, this is not about rich vs. Poor. This is Republican vs. Poor. The failure to recognise, admit and articulate this means we will still keep losing. The three presidents who arguably did the most to help the poor in American history were all millionaire's even without inflation. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2017 06:05
|
|
|
Maarek posted:Actually, you keep losing because of rhetoric about Not All Millionaires. There simply aren't enough upper middle class people who badly want to suck off Warren Buffet to win elections. Whereas Americans all just hate the rich and have never had any aspirations to be like them, right? That's just always been a winner.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:The wealthy of america stood united behind a candidate whose explicit-as-laid-out-by-the-currently-top-ranking-democrat-in-America campaign strategy was to abandon the working class in favor of picking up the votes of suburban republicans. He accused her of being shrill, a nasty woman, a puppet of Russia, corrupt, a criminal, diseased, disgusting a slave to "special interests", and virtually every orher insult that went through his brain. He never once called her a puppet of the rich. That is just pure uncut projection on your part. Meanwhile, she attacked him for using his wealth to bully lower class workers, and not for his Republican views. How well did that work again? Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 13, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:I think the problem is that Paul Ryan was bullied for being poor as a kid, and he internalized that poor = not fit to live. I think that he's a Republican and they all think like that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
Typo posted:will he really though I mean he claimed that he appointed Bannon to the NSC cuz he didn't read the documents he was signing maybe he'll just say someone lied to him about what was in the bill Or just lie and say he never said that. That has worked pretty well for him so far.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
Rabble posted:I like the "three pronged approach to healthcare" bullshit because it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that the second this passes reconciliation they aren't going to touch it and say healthcare is "fixed". Well, step 3 is profit.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2017 23:52
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:37?! Wow it's gone up like 10 in the past day. That Koch brothers announcement was a starting whistle.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
How is this even possible? What the gently caress do they plan to do with this money? Are they literally just throwing it in a hole? Shimrra Jamaane posted:So what are they going to do, just silently glare at eachother for an hour? A truly staggering display of hate-loving.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
I simply cannot believe Republicans made this more of a cluster gently caress than the actual ACA creation.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:But if you had to put money on it the NOs are pretty safe bet I think. People ARE putting money on it. And lives.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
Typo posted:sorry guys i think the lovely trumpcare bill passes either tmr or next week: the suicide caucus is suicidal but not that suicidal, they want to get re-elected and trump is playing the "I don't care if I win re-election" madman theory chess move. If this were true the last week would not have occurred.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
Is that what they're telling Trump or do they actually believe this?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 13:25
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:I mean, she'd have said that yesterday, a year ago, two years ago, and before she was elected. Before she was elected she was a Republican.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2017 00:27
|
|
|
Teriyaki Koinku posted:I think the thread subtitle should be renamed 'AHCA is DOA'. I prefer 'AHCA is FUKD'
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
Mississippi loving sucks but it is still part of America.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
I thought the purpose of the argument was to justify the claim that the US has the best healthcare in the world. Personally, I would a just stuck with pointing out that yes, in terms of service at its very peak, America is superior, but this refuses to acknowledge how few people can get to it. So it's technically true but hella misleading. Or as Republicans call that, the truth lieberuls don't want you to know.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
They could still repeal if they feel crazy, but they have nothing to replace it with and even Republicans aren't that dumb.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Paracaidas posted:
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2017 21:20
|
|
|
Typo posted:Do you guys think this is actually true? I see no reason to not. Ryan abandoned dignity long ago, if he was desperate for this to pass I think he'd do it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Well, issue is that has no effect on the Senate which is naturally gerrymandered. What's so bad about 2018 is that there's a ton of Democratic seats up for election and virtually no Republican seats outside states where it's not necessarily even worth running a democratic candidate. I'm not joking when I say Ted Cruz is the third most vulnerable Republican senator in that election - there's Heller in Nevada (the only likely vulnerable seat), then Flake in Arizona (not likely to be vulnerable, but this would be the next one to fall most likely), and then Cruz. It's a nightmare of a map but it's not gerrymandered, it just happens to be that 2012 and 2006 were really good for Dems. There's a pretty easy rule for this, the minimum cumulative border length rule. The state's map needs to be the lowest possible length of each district's borders added together while also including an equal number of people in each district. Any map that includes a 10 foot by 15 mile length so they can include every available Republican across a huge length throws that map hugely off and gets it disqualified. Pure simple mathematical efficiency without a capacity to politicize it. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 27, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Yeah, conservatives will never run out of things to scream and be afraid about. That's a benefit of being completely insane.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
And even then, they'll be terrified by those satanic Catholics, not like us good god fearing protestants.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Majorian posted:Well, but candidates promising awesome-sounding platitudes is not really anything new. The fact that Obama promised big things for health care, then lost support once he got elected and had to govern, doesn't change the fact that promising big things got him elected in the first place. The ACA remains the law of the land, and most Americans are better-off now because of it than they were before. I don't see why this has to be any different with economically progressive Dems going forward: they promise Medicare for all, they get elected partially on that promise (because people broadly support the idea), they try to implement it, they make a good show of fighting for it, and if they can't succeed, they at least try to come up with something that improves upon the existing system. The public isn't automatically going to throw them out of power if they don't succeed; they WILL throw them out of power if they don't look like they're fighting for their constituencies, though. Horseshit. 2010. Oh wait, lemme guess, by sheer coincidence, the dems failing to succeed was forgiven but house constituencies all simultaneously were not represented. The Dems 2010 platform was based on making people understand that these promises don't come true instantly, and they got crushed. How did you forget that? Hieronymous Alloy posted:We need huge tax increases on the very wealthy anyway just for economic fairness and to prevent wealth stratification. Thats nice. And when we realise taxing the rich will not cover the program, and you do need to raise taxes on the middle class?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:We should be careful about this kind of analysis. Rural white voters definitely trend socially conservative: God, guns, no abortions, no fags. But they're not very economically conservative: they don't want their Medicare and welfare and handouts cut, and they don't want corporations loving them over. Their meficare. Them. You add in minorities to this and they will burn the loving country to the ground rather than let a person two shades darker than them get any benefit. That's what you fail to realise - that economic issues are inherently social in a multiethnic society.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 05:35
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Some of them sure, but those people are a lost cause by definition. You'll never get those people to vote Democrat, and the pragmatic strategy of letting corporations gently caress them a little bit isn't going to make single-issue white supremacist voters vote D either. Once again the problem is you are reducing it to a binary distinction. They're either klan members or woke. You don't think there a little bit more to it than that?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 05:53
|
|
|
Boon posted:
They don't think of themselves as white supremacists, they don't endorse explicit racism, but they will still throw a shitfit if mah taxes goes towards moochers.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 06:03
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:Maybe (although I should think that a senator ought to know whether a public option would help his constituents), but even if we assume there's no way Baucus could possibly have known what huge electoral losses would result from the ACA, that's no reason for us not to learn from what happened and change our strategy going forward. You seem to be operating under the idea that economic issues are the absolute last thing that I'm-not-a-racist-but folks will flip on to gently caress over minorities, not the first.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:It will if we raise them enough. We had a top tax rate of 90% under Eisenhower. The math arguing that taxing the rich wouldn't be enough usually adopts comically inadequate tax raises on said rich people. No, even with a 90% tax rate the math just doesn't cover it. You do realise that the US didn't have universal healthcare with that top tax rate, right? Refusing to acknowledge the math doesn't work and that we just need to do MORE of whatever you wanted to do in the first place is not the sort of thing that should be adopted from Republicans.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 20:47
|
|
|
clockworkjoe posted:Seems the GOP is going to take another crack at it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/house-gop-health-care-alive_us_58e30030e4b0f4a923b14b10?a2sj8jrudq0bpgb9&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009 Have they done anything yet that couldn't just be empty promises and bluster?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2017 23:15
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:Apparently not and they only have until Friday to do anything so it's all probably a non-starter. I've heard this a lot. Why specifically Friday?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 5, 2017 09:56
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:I am concerned that the HFC may have been brought to heel in the interim. Nothing makes a group of sociopathic extremists come to heel and back down like folding like a bitch right in front of them. The HFC just learned they can tell Trump to eat a cock with no drawbacks, they'll only be more uncontrollable now.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 14, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
clockworkjoe posted:I don't know how that can last if Trump fills the GOP machine with loyalists https://secure.politico.com/story/2017/04/trump-republican-party-takeover-states-237075 I think the Kochs might have a thing or 3 billion to say about that. They want to call the shots, not some populist chucklefuck wanna be dictator. Citizens United is the devil incarnate, but damned if the devil isn't able to sow discord in your enemies camp. Plus, institutional power is one thing, but Trump can't get rid of these guys without being able to sway voters against them. Which, again, the healthcare debate proved he can't do. This is Trump moving to conduct a power play without thinking ant part of it through. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Apr 15, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2017 09:08
|
|
|
So, this is it for the year, right? They needed a budget resolution to be able to repeal Obamacare, they need to do the budget now, so they've lost this years window to actually repeal, and will need to try again in 2018, when the threat of voter backlash is worse?
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:A simple majority of either house can suspend the rules and vote on anything the presiding officer (speaker of the house/president of the senate) puts up for a vote.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:No, there have been effective Speakers of the House. Boehner was not one of them though, and was selected precisely because he was weak. Ryan was selected not because he was any good but because he was the only one who was acceptable to 218 republicans after years of Boehner had destroyed leadership's control over its caucus. Honestly, on balance, Pelosi is probably the most effective speaker of the house of the 21st century. Well, successful at things other than molesting underage boys.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
Last I heard was 20 hell nos. Who shifted?
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:Undecided doesn't necessarily mean undecided. A lot of the "moderate" nos don't want to be on the record: they will tell Ryan they're a no but won't tell the press because it is better for them if the bill never gets a vote so they don't piss off either their base or sane people. Similarly, a lot of "yes" voters don't actually want to be on the record supporting this unless it is going to pass. Is this just something you tell to comfort yourself or do you have a source?
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:If people are paying for their insurance with direct income taxes, they can't actually opt out. They can opt out of coverage, they can't opt out of paying. Same way anyone can opt out of flying, but can't opt out of paying for the FAA
|
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2017 03:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 01:01 |
|
|
asdf32 posted:First forget appointments, that's the last battle worth fighting. Second such is life that what I said is literally true. McCain was a better than average republican and his death isn't actually good. Better than average meaning one single vote against party since January.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2017 05:40
|
|